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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKilling Elephants for Trophies according to Trump
Last edited Thu Nov 16, 2017, 09:01 PM - Edit history (1)
Donald Trump today reversed an Obama era ban on African Elephant parts(heads, tusks,and tails) as trophies from being allowed to be imported into the United States.
Do we as a people no longer hold endangerd animals such as Elephants, Lions, and Rhinos sacred anymore?
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)What a demented and ugly bastard.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I didn't read into the link I saw about this earlier, would this be something Dump would have had direct input in reversing? Not that it matters, just curious what brought about the review of theban.
BigmanPigman
(51,611 posts)a joke as a comedian with The Moron's severed head. It was a joke (some people thought it was not funny) but it was fake and not an endangered animal. Personally I can imagine political artists illustrating his big, orange head mounted on a wall. I would approve of that! Now everyone can say I am being nasty so go ahead...I expect it.
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)flvegan
(64,409 posts)Some groups of poachers slaughter them in numbers with AK-47s.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)I can't stand even the thought of hunting.
I catch spiders and release them outside. (Not mosquitos though.)
These African canned hunts are a big source of income for the parks in Africa though. The only chance these animals have of keeping a space to live is if it is in the local people's economic interest to keep them alive. A $ 100,000 canned hunt does a lot to help the preserve.
Plus, some of these parks in Africa are overpopulated with elephants. Where are they supposed to go? On the other hand some of the parks are reporting violent behavior from their young bull elephants. Their study shows it comes from the lack of older bull elephants that used to be there to reach the young males how to behave themselves. These older males are the ones that are wanted for trophies since they are so big and have such large tusks. Also, since they eat so much, do so much environmental damage and aren't needed for procreation, they are the ones offered to the hunters. We see the same problems with young male humans growing up without fathers around.
Anyway, this is a complicated issue. I don't want to go anywhere near it. In fact I won't eat at Jimmy Johns Sandwich Shop because he posed with an elephant he killed. But the money those trophy hunters donate to those parks is sure a lot more than I'm doing sitting here at my keyboard.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Read this about how close we are biologically to elephants (also dolphins, whales and great apes) and tell me if the issue is complicated.
Spindle neurons are found in two very restricted regions in the brains of hominidsthe family of species comprising humans and other great apesthe anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and the fronto-insular cortex (FI). Recently they have been discovered in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex of humans.[1] Spindle cells are also found in the brains of the humpback whales, fin whales, killer whales, sperm whales,[2][3] bottlenose dolphin, Rissos dolphin, beluga whales,[4] African and Asian elephants,[5] and to a lesser extent in macaque monkeys[6] and raccoons.[7] The appearance of spindle neurons in distantly related clades suggests that they represent convergent evolution, specifically an adaptation to larger brains.
Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist Constantin von Economo (18761931) discovered spindle neurons and described them in 1929, which is why they are sometimes called von Economo neurons.[8]
Spindle neurons are relatively large cells that may allow rapid communication across the relatively large brains of great apes, elephants, and cetaceans. Although rare in comparison to other neurons, spindle neurons are abundant, and large, in humans. However, the concentration of spindle cells has been measured to be three times higher in cetaceans in comparison to humans.[3][9] They have only been found thus far in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), fronto-insular cortex (FI), and the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
Evolutionary significance[edit]
The observation that spindle neurons only occur in a highly significant group of animals (from a human point of view) has led to speculation that they are of great importance in human evolution and/or brain function. Their restriction (among the primates) to great apes leads to the hypothesis that they developed no earlier than 15-20 million years ago, prior to the divergence of orangutans from the African great apes. The discovery of spindle neurons in diverse whale species[3][4] has led to the suggestion that they are "a possible obligatory neuronal adaptation in very large brains, permitting fast information processing and transfer along highly specific projections and that evolved in relation to emerging social behaviors."[4]p. 254 Their presence in the brains of these species supports this theory, pointing towards the existence of these specialized neurons only in highly intelligent mammals, and may be an example of convergent evolution.[10] Recently, primitive forms of spindle neurons have also been discovered in macaque monkey brains[11] and raccoons.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindle_neuron
Yupster
(14,308 posts)I love elephants and have read many books about them. "The Elephant Whisperer" was one of my favorites. It's about a guy who brought elephants back to Zululand after they were extinct there for over 100 years. During the Iraq War he flew to Baghdad to try to relocate the animals of the Baghdad Zoo. Unfortunately he died young of a heart attack.
Anyway, I understand how wonderful and highly intelligent elephants are. I wouldn't dream of killing one and I wouldn't speak to anyone who would.
But, my talking and wishing isn't doing much to help them. There is a population explosion going on in Africa right now. The migration of people to Europe is just one sign of that explosion.
Elephants cost a lot of money and take up a lot of land. Those local villagers want that land for their cattle and farms. If the elephants aren't made an economic plus for those villagers they will disappear. In fact even if it's economically viable there still has to be somewhere to put the extra elephants that are filling park areas.
So, I can't understand hunting elephants but I realize that the $ 100,000 the hunt provides is a lot more than I'm doing. Is there another solution? Elephants rip up their environment pretty totally if they overpopulate an area.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)The murdering humans can move out of the elephants territories, and stop destroying Africa's environment with over farming, as a bonus.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)not very practical for a continent of subsistence farmers in the midst of the largest population explosion anywhere.
Maybe if we can relocate 50 million Africans to the USA each year for the next 20 years we'd give the continent a chance to get the birthrate down closer to the world average. The assumption of the last 20 years has been that the birthrates would move toward the world average as it has in S America and Asia, but so far the numbers haven't really budged. The predictions of 20 years ago have been blown out of the water.
With a population growth rate as it is now, all the animals of Africa are in desperate shape. Keeping some national parks is about all that can be hoped for, and we can expect revolutions to destroy those parks if population pressure continues.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I'm for seeing a lot less of THEM and a lot more ELEPHANTS.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)and great efforts and resources have been put in the effort.
The results have been way less than predicted.
In fact in North Africa the percentage of women using birth control has actually gone down over the last few years. That coincides with the rise of conservative Islam in the area.
Out of control population growth is in my opinion the biggest problem of the world today. As long as Africa's population grows like it is, the elephants and other wildlife don't have a chance.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Lilyhoney
(1,985 posts)No. Just no. What ever snark or comparison I was going to try to make. No. It is not okay. Not now not ever. wTF is wrong with you that you would justify not harming household spiders but you laid out multiple reasons for hunting elephants. I am angry with you. Good bye.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)Today it is 1.2 billion. By 2050 it is projected to be 2.37 billion.
By 2050, 54 % of the world's population growth is projected to be in Africa. The fertility rate in Africa is 88 % above the world's standard. The average woman of the world has 2.5 kids. In Africa it's 4.5.
Take a look at this article from about a year ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/jan/11/population-growth-in-africa-grasping-the-scale-of-the-challenge
So what about the elephants? Where will they go? Where can they live? Is anyone doing anything for them other than offering sympathy? In a continent of subsistence farmers in the midst of a population explosion, what about the elephants, and the giraffes, and the gnus and the zebras and the gorillas and the bonobos?
Can we hope for anything better than well managed game reserves? Can we even hope for that?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)But it's a lot more complicated than just offering birth control.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)So Daddy dearest allowed it
dalton99a
(81,526 posts)- Trump, Jan 2017