Legal: AR-15's. Illegal: Marijuana

[FarLeftFist]

Also, The GOP & NRA have successfully managed to make it easier to get a gun than to vote.

[white_wolf]

1. Well that's because Marijuana is dangerous and guns are completely safe...

at least that's the logic we seem to be hearing from the right.

[Renew Deal]

2. Good to see the stoners get a piece of the action

[SoutherDem]

3. But gun ownership is protected by the Constitution and voting is....

Oh, yeah, it is protected too.

[kestrel91316]

11. Unfortunately, DEA doesn't respect the voting we did in CA and other places

to legalize medical cannabis...........

[Flatulo]

59. Gotta protect the jobs of those 10,000 DEA employees. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. No ID, no vote.

Buy an election; no ID required, or even requested.

Meh.

[madinmaryland]

66. And buy a gun, no ID required, or even requested.

[LiberalLoner]

6. I know, I know, but...

I don't think AR-15's should be illegal. I'm sorry. That would be the only weapon I would ever have because it's the only legal weapon I feel familiar with. I never fired a weapon before I went to Basic Training in the Army. I know how to fire an M-16 and feel comfortable with it. If I ever bought a weapon there is no doubt I would want an AR-15 because that is the civilian form of the M-16, with the capability for automatic fire blocked.

If I ever wanted to hunt, I would get an AR-15. I don't hunt at the present time but I'm from Montana and I think hunting is okay. There are a lot of people in Montana who are grateful for that meat in the freezer that comes from hunting.

I don't think crazy people ought to have AR-15's but I don't think that weapon should be made illegal.

[SlimJimmy]

13. I agree, and as an example - the exact same rifle. It's all a matter of perception.

[rhett o rick]

17. Isnt it easy to buy a kit to make your AR-15 fully automatic? nm

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. You don't need to buy anything.

Someone, somewhere has posted a "how to" complete with blueprints.

[Marinedem]

31. Ummm, no.

Blatantly false info.

I have very extensive experience with both AR-15s and M-16s. The parts are quite different inside.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. That's why you make your own parts from plans.

All it takes is access to a machine shop.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. If you happen to have one of a small number of AR-15's sold before 1986, you could

replace it's internal parts with the parts from an M-16 and end up with an M-16. (one that might potentially explode in your hands if the receiver is made of aluminimum, which was never meant to stand up to full-auto-fire, and may stretch and fatigue and shatter)


After 1986 you either need to obtain an original reciever (the component behind the barrel that holds all the guts), manufacture a new receiver, or significantly modify the weapon's internal parts in a manner that is highly hazardous to your health.

In 1986 they required that all new rifles be required to be difficult to convert to full-auto. That means no drop-in ready replaceable parts. Any rifle made that was easy to convert is in the eyes of the BATFE, a machine gun even if it hasn't been converted. And the BATFE has sole jurisdiction over what 'easily converted' means.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

53. Damn shame we can't account for any of them out there.

What with the NRA fighting registration and private party sales being done and not recorded.

[AtheistCrusader]

55. We don't need to. Look at the dearth of Fully Automatic weapons recovered from crime scenes.

Pitifully few. Incredibly rare. Less than a whole number percentage of firearms used in crimes, fatalaties or no.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

56. Prior to 1934 you could legally own machine guns and hand grenades.

It was a response to gangsters.

America never responds until insanity becomes impossible to ignore.

[rhett o rick]

64. I believe machine guns are still legal in some states like Oregon. nm

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. Federal Law in highly restrictive

There's a place in Vegas where you can fire a Tommy gun.

[SlimJimmy]

61. Not really. There is quite the difference between an M-16 and an AR-15. Just to clarify, the rifle

pictured in my pictures is an M-14, widely available, and not on the assault weapons ban list.

[upaloopa]

45. Excuse me but your thinking leaves much to reflect on. I also carried an M-16 in Viet Nam

The idea of citizens in peace time in a relatively peaceful country carrying M-16 is just sick!

[LiberalLoner]

47. I'd hate to see an M16 becoming legal to own, too...don't see anything wrong with the AR-15 for

hunting though.

[upaloopa]

50. People don't buy AR-15s for hunting. You walk into a gun store in any red city like Bakersfield

CA and the walls are covered with AR-15 looking weapons.

People want to shoot and rip the shit out of things with them. You see the videos on line. It's a fetish.

I knew people like that. I ran into a guy in 1968 who said he was a gun dealer. He ordered rifles from South America and other places through magazines. One time he was unwrapping one of the rifles he got and blew his finger off. The bullet went through his patio door and into the house next door. His neighbor called the cops and when they searched the guy's garage he had enough black power stored to blow his house and the neighbor's houses to hell. He had a little girl about 7 or 8 and had loaded guns all around the house.

That is the kind of guy I saw in the gun stores in Bakersfield drooling over AR-15s and such.

That ain't you but with out gun control there are a lot of guys like that out there.

[Zyzafyx]

7. K & FUCKING R!

[Ohio Joe]

8. I did not kill anyone with my pot last night

Yet just a mile or so from my house some asshole shot up a theater and killed a bunch of people.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. Now watch them screen this guy for drugs and find traces of pot in a hair sample.

Then expect it to hit the echo chamber.

Forget the meth and the booze. He'd had a joint in the last six months.

Or hemp shampoo.

[gopiscrap]

9. No wonder this country is turning to shit!

[Lionessa]

10. Perhaps if the shooter had some pot to smoke, he would have procranstinated about his revenge

and instead played video games and eaten cheese doodles and diet coke.

I've always "promoted" pot over alcohol or any other illicit drugs for that very reason. Generally when not mixed with other like drinking, pot calms anger and aggression, in my experience.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. Pot calms anger and aggression, in my experience.

Yeah, but have you ever gone to a garage sale stoned?

[img][/img]

It seemed like such a good idea at the time....

[Sirveri]

12. Pot = Schedule 1. Meth = Schedule 2. Meth is thus safer than pot.

Don't ask me why they rigged the system like that.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Sorry, it's not easier to get a gun than to vote.

I can register to vote for no cost in minutes, whereas in the gun store, I have to affirm and sign a form 4477, and wait for a NICS background check to run.

Please stick to the facts.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Simply untrue.

The same state-issued photo id's required in each of the states referenced here are also required to purchase a gun from a store, PLUS in some state's cases, a firearms license, PLUS the NICS check, PLUS the 4477 form, and without a concealed pistol license or a completed NICS check or some state's cases even WITH a NICS check, a waiting period.

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/05/10711/voter-suppression-bills-sweep-country

So no, those are not 'the facts'.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. It's not a loophole.

It's a private transaction for a used firearm. And even THAT is not true of several states. I could similarly point to the various states with very permissive voter registration, or provisional ballots to show that voting is very, very easy (at least, so far, I will grant some parties are gnawing away at that)

Where regulations apply (new sales, internet sales, dealer sales), it is far harder to acquire a gun.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. I am totally on-board with

ripping down those laws. I view them as poll taxes. My point is, if you want to buy a gun at a dealer, you need AT LEAST that much ID, if not more, plus additional federal requirements not present to vote in a local or state election.

[rhett o rick]

16. He said vote, not "register to vote". There is a lot of difference, esp in some states.

Also, you describe how hard it is to buy a gun at a gun shop. Arent there easier, legal ways to buy a gun?

[AtheistCrusader]

19. You could buy it from a private party, like a co-worker, cash only.

Even most gun shows require membership, which is predicated upon a background check at this point, so yes, there is a way to get a gun with no ID at all.

It's also possible to cast a provisional ballot with no ID.

[kurtzapril4]

23. You can go to a certain large Flea Market

in central Florida and buy any gun....no background check, no questions asked.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. That's a private transaction.

If that person happens to sell a particular number of guns in a month, that person is, in the eyes of the law, a dealer, and must do the paperwork/background check, or enjoy a stay in a small concrete cell with shitty food for 10+ years.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. No such thing.

The newspapers that report it as such, all have classified ads in the back, that contain the same 'loophole', in the section lableled 'firearms'.

It's not a loophole. It's a private transaction. Otherwise you'd have to call it the newspaper loophole. Or the garage sale loophole. Or the buddy at work loophole. Or the flea market loophole. Or the bloke that my friend knows loophole.

[Dragonfli]

42. I agree, it is more of a canyon than a hole, it makes the law non-existent with a work around

Just don't buy it in the shop, there will be plenty of sellers that are selling everyday but as a "private transaction" wink, wink at a show or open air market.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. Most transactions of this nature are not done in bad faith.

Everyone I know demands to see a concealed pistol license, because we are not allowed to check NICS. If you have a CPL, it can be assumed you are an eligible buyer.

In the cases of straw purchases, and deliberate malfeasance, that's pretty rare, by comparison. As evidenced by the Department Of Justice surveys of inmates, identifying where they obtained their firearms.

Friends and family members were the primary source, gun shows a single digit percentage. Friends and family are highly likely to be aware the buyer is ineligible (as the vast majority have prior convictions) and therefore knowingly entering into an unlawful transaction.

[Dragonfli]

49. You know as well as I that it is the opposite, people bring guns into my state all the time

after visiting gun shows in other places (I know a guy that goes to Florida to get them, he sells them to anyone in Buffalo if they pay cash).

It is big business. You really should not lie about something that is so prevalent it is common knowledge.

[AtheistCrusader]

54. You should report your 'I know a guy' to the BATFE.

Because he's breaking multiple federal laws in the process.

You'll excuse me if I don't believe you till you link a story in your local paper/media about his arrest and charges.

[4th law of robotics]

40. Don't bring facts in to it

they're on a roll.

Just like how people are now claiming the 2nd amendment protects this sort of thing.

Or that everyone who purchases a gun does so with the intent to murder.

Or that this guy was a rabid Rush (the pundit, not the band unless I've really misread those threads) fan which is why he did it.

[AtheistCrusader]

41. I bet he heard Rush's Tom Sawyer just before the shooting.

Fuck, is it too early for the gallows humor?

[4th law of robotics]

43. I can't decide.

I guess if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

[rhett o rick]

65. But just because he says they are facts doesnt make it so. He spoke of voter REGISTRATION not

voting like the OP spoke of. Lots easier to register than it is to vote for millions. He spoke of buying guns from a store which is hard but still can be done. But there are much easier ways of buying guns.

You see his "facts" were tailored to push his agenda. Guns are easy to buy. Millions own guns.

In 2004 hundreds of thousands of voters found it was so hard, they never got to vote. It doesnt get harder than that. No four days wait or whatever. No forms got them there vote. They were not allowed to vote

[NickB79]

20. They should both be fully legal. nt

[polichick]

26. This country has lost its moral compass, if it ever had one.

[villager]

28. Exactly. Also peculiar: A forum on DU to fawn over and fetishize guns. But a sex forum!?

No way! That might... offend people!

[villager]

57. heck no! If we had forums like that, the site wouldn't be taken seriously! But a forum for...

pathetically obvious dick-metaphors-as-overcompensation-for-psychological failings!?

You bet!

[Flatulo]

32. At this point, Pandora's Box has been opened.

There are over 200,000,000 guns out there. Even if the government decided to halt all manufacture and import, there will always be those 200,000,000.

If the government decided to go door-to-door to round them all up and melt them down, what percentage do you think they could retrieve? Even if they could get 90% of them, that would still leave 20,000,000 guns. They'd just be much more expensive to obtain, legally or illegally.

I don't know what the answer is to the random madman shooting up a crowd, but it does seem to me that our society is a real pressure-cooker. People are often overwhelmed by the need to succeed or be kicked to the curb. Young people, old people, and everyone in between is under unnatural pressures. Everyone becomes their enemy, and they snap.

Maybe we should start piping THC into the water supply.

[RegieRocker]

36. Bring it on

Yea!

[Fumesucker]

60. You got any idea how many marijuana plants there are in the USA?

And yet the government keeps marijuana illegal...

[Flatulo]

63. Yeah, and the DEA interdicts less than 1% of illicit drugs

and has spent a half-trillion dollars doing so.

Fucking waste, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of lives utterly destroyed by imprisonment for minor drug offenses.

[RegieRocker]

35. Aw come on

Is it the drugs and guns or the person? Damn make up your minds. I say it's the person. Legalize drugs. Keep guns legal. Get people help.

[tclambert]

44. From what I hear, the gun laws in Canada are nearly identical to the laws here, yet

in Toronto, population 2.6 million, the homicide rate is 3.3 per 100,00 people (Wikipedia), while in Chicago, population 2.7 million, the homicide rate is about 16 per 100,000. In all of Canada, the homicide rate is very, very much lower than here.

The question is: Why? If the laws are nearly identical, it must be differences in the culture. But what?

[Dragonfli]

39. Well, they will only change gun laws to allow even more lethal weapons, but there is something

we can do for one of the most stringent pot warriors in over thirty years.
He needs to learn what the word humane is, action is possible the 23 of this month.

I do not understand the cruelty involved in attempting to deprive the sick of their medicine, perhaps even jail them, perhaps he has enough intelligence to listen to reason rather than jailing the sick and those that would help them, try to reach the great anti-pot warrior at this event, if reason is not lost on him: http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2012/07/16/medical-marijuana-supporters-plan-to-protest-obamas-oakland-fundraiser/

[Dragonfli]

48. Ironicaly, medical pot users (with prescriptions) are nearly the only ones that can't have guns now

http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_19026921

[B Calm]

58. No doubt, we live in a fucked up country! Legalize pot

probably will never happen in my lifetime, damn shame!

[CbtEngr01]

62. the govt cant

the govt cant stop pot, which is illegal, what makes you think they would even remotely succeed at taking guns, which is a guraunteed right?
And if you want the government to become so large that they can, then thats just wrong. The politicians are our servants, not our masters

[electedface]

68. Tax Marijuana and Reduce the Federal Deficit

Estimates show that marijuana is America’s number one cash crop. However, marijuana remains untaxed. This is a new source of income for our nation, an income we desperately need.

Over 500 of the nation’s top economic professors have shared their opinion in supporting the removing the prohibition and imposing the taxation and regulation of marijuana as a way to slow the federal deficit.

Ending marijuana prohibition would save the US $7.7 BILLION annually. That is nearly as much as Congress’ proposed Budget Control Act. Think of the jobs it would create, the court time I would save and the jail space it would free up for actual criminals.

Sign into electedface and create a group, this will connect every member directly to their elected officials.

[RagAss]

69. Now if we can just get a joint to fire bullets.