I know I'll get shit for this, but here goes:

[gopiscrap]

My yahoo headline says that there were 3 servicemen wounded in the Colorado theater shooting...ok sorry that that happened but what I want to know is:

how many teachers were wounded?
How many social workers?

This shows where are priorities are as a nation!

[LiberalLoner]

1. No shit from me. Every person in that theater matters equally. I come from a military family and

I am very uncomfortable with the military worship that has arisen since the right-wing gained power. My husband had to wear his uniform during a recent TDY because he was going to the site straight from the airport and he said over 20 people came up to him and thanked him for his service and shook his hand. He was pretty uncomfortable with that much attention, although he realized all those people meant well.

[turtlerescue1]

44. It beats how the Nam vets were treated for too long.

"Thankyou" wasn't what they heard. I'ld rather these soldiers would hear thankyou. Still wish we would stay home.

Each life does matter, it impacts. With the number of slaughters in America, it gets to be a defense mechanism to grow complacent by those of us not impacted.

After Mpls got the named Murderapolis, we elected a city council person. With each homicide he would take the day off from City Hall, fast and hold a vigil at the crime scene.
Over 34 vigils later,the candles; the cards; the flowers- the families would come by. The realities would hit hard. One is that you really can't fix stupid.

[zeemike]

50. Funny but I was a Viet Nam Vet and I never got spit on.

And don't know anyone that was.
But the meme was created and lives still to this day.
And no one ever thanked me for my service and I never expected it either because I served when men were conscripted and they served because it was their duty to....and you should not be thanking people for doing their duty.
Somewhere along the way starting with Reagan we changed to an all volunteer military and created this cult of heroes that have to be stroked endlessly...the idea of duty to country was gutted,
And every civilization ends this way...with Rome the mercenary military just saw that they had the power and marched across the Rubicon and it was game over for Roman republic.

[LiberalLoner]

56. Ask PinBoyNiner some time about his experience coming home

[zeemike]

61. Well ask PinBoy to ask me about some of my experiences with VT vets coming home.

And how some of them loved to "hippie punch" the war protesters...cause they loved the war...and loved to tell stories how they abused the "gooks"...or fragged an officer they did not like.
So we paint them with that broad brush too? or is that just for the non heroes.

[vietnam_war_vet]

58. You said: "Funny but I was a Viet Nam Vet and I never got spit on.

"And don't know anyone that was. But the meme was created and lives still to this day. "

Columnist/author/Pulitzer-prize winner Bob Greene thought almost exactly the same and said so in one of his nationally syndicated columns in 1988. In that column, he stated that he thought such incidents were nothing more than an urban myth.

He really kicked a hornet's nest. Virtually thousands of Vietnam Vets wrote and/or phoned him detailing their degrading, discriminatory, often vile incidents that they had experienced from our country's citizens after returning stateside from that war.

Greene then wrote a second column apologizing for his initial column. He then selected several hundred of the letters, contacted the veteran writers, and got permission to use/reprint those letters in an 1989 anthology, entitled: "Homecoming - When the Soldiers Returned From Vietnam."

In my opinion, Greene's book is worth your time to peruse. My letter is on pages 199 - 200.

[zeemike]

60. Don't worry I have heard the stories too

And I am sure it happened to someone somewhere...but I know lots of my friends that came home and were well accepted by the community and the anti war people...and I knew both sides...the were all my friends.
But I do know some people that made shit up that never happened because they hated the hippies and loved the war.
And so for every true story there are probably more stories made up for those reasons.
Most of the anti war people I knew did not blame the soldier and were protesting to bring them home where they belonged.
But out of the hundreds of thousands I am sure there are those that experienced what you said and I am sure you are one of them...but just as the freepers pin every vile thing that happens on OWS the same dynamics was in play then...there were a strong group of authoritarians that hated the hippies so much that they loved to punch them out...nothing of course is ever said about that...but I am sure you could find thousands of stories about it if you asked.

And it is those stories that fuel this little cult of heroes we have going now...and it was the reason papa Bush used to start it all curing the first gulf war....if fucking makes me sick to see a once proud and honorable service by the citizen soldier be turned into a mercenary force and a cult of heroes.

So pardon me if I don't play the game and thank you for your service...it was your duty....and not your fault.
And as far as disclosure is concerned I had 2 brothers that served in WW2 and my father was a marine in WW1 and was wounded at the battle of Belleau woods...and they would have been embarrassed if you thanked them for their service. They served because it was their duty not because they wanted to be heroes.

[turtlerescue1]

64. For what its worth

When I marched in S.F. it was with six guys who had just come home from Nam. It was things like the VFW and Legions that "at that time" did not accept the Nam vets, because "it was a police action, and not a declared war". One of my best friends was killed on point the day after Christmas 1967, it took several years of complaining before our Veterans Groups made sure he had a flag on Memorial and Veteran's Days. What was that one "saying"?
We are the unwilling doing the un necessary for the ungrateful?

Met one woman who I think to impress our group called "the peace treaty" said she had spit on a vet at Oakland, she was shunned like a plague.

I'm not so sure its hero worship that nudges someone to thank a soldier in uniform, it might be just a show of respect for time served and duty done.

[zeemike]

66. there is no shame in duty done...none at all.

But it is a mistake to make duty an honer...especially when that duty is a serious one involving killing people.
If you save someones life and they thank you... that is how it works....but when your duty is a serious and violent one in the taking of life and it is a shame to be thanked for it.

I liked the story I read about a Native American tribe that had warriors...and they were outcast really...they were not allowed to participate in the religious rites.....but these warriors had great honer among the people still but the tribe gave the honer to the spirit of life in that they treated the violence as nothing to be proud of.
For what it's worth.

[DURHAM D]

2. I had the exact same reaction.

[Loudly]

3. Profiles of all the vicitms will be grist for the mill.

Will it change any minds among the survivors and their families who previously thought guns and ammo in the hands of the public is a good idea?

[Indydem]

4. Hint: Teachers and social workers don't risk their lives.

They don't go to foreign lands on orders and make it home to be shot by a fucker in a theater.

It's perspective friend, get some.

[arbusto_baboso]

7. I have to ask right now if you've ever served.

I have.

And every man and woman I ever served with would be more than fine with saving an American civilian life at the cost of their own, whether it is abroad or in a movie theater at home.

Looks to me like YOU are the one in need of perspective.

[Indydem]

12. Who said they wouldn't?

You missed my entire point.

The fact that you failed to realize the emphasis placed means that even if I take the painstaking time to explain it to you, you won't get it anyway, so I'll save the effort.

[arbusto_baboso]

16. I don't happen to think you HAVE a point.

And your unwiilingness to explain stems more from your inability to do so.

[TalkingDog]

28. I know a couple of social workers. If you think they don't risk their lives to help America

and Americans, you really need to ride along with one when they visit a meth addict or a person with severe paranoid schizophrenia.

And I'm sure a few teachers would have stories to tell too.

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. +1000

[LiberalLoner]

57. + 1

[MichiganVote]

68. Thank you. The public has NO idea what we see on a daily basis.

[gopiscrap]

9. Excuse me!

twice as a social worker in 8 years I have had a gun pulled on me and once shot. My wife has been a teacher in an inner city school for 12 years and she has been assaulted several times...why don't you get some perspective!!!! My post wanted folks to look at the hero worship we have of the military..when as a nation we glorify fighting and death, that seeps down to the rest of our culture and makes us blind to peace and justice!

[arbusto_baboso]

13. Here, here!

I'm a social worker myself now, and I consider myself to be no less in service to my nation than when I wore a uniform. As are you and your wife.

[gopiscrap]

19. Thank you

[Indydem]

18. Is that a part of your job description?

Is that an assumed condition of your employment, or simply something that happens?

If it is an assumed risk, and everyone who goes into social work and teaching regularly lays their life on the line to do their job, then I will retract my statement.

You know that is not an assumed risk of being a social worker or a teacher, therefore, it is not the same as a soldier.

Nice try equating your job to the armed forces. I give your attempt a C for effort.

[arbusto_baboso]

22. You're still putting military personnel at a level above everyone else.

And I'm telling you right now, that military personnel themselves tend to find that thinking patently offensive. You'll get no points from many of us, I think.

[Indydem]

25. If you don't place more value on them,

And the sacrifice they make, then we have nothing more to speak about.

[arbusto_baboso]

26. And you have NO CLUE about how soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines think.

You PRETEND to care about us, but in reality you dishonor us all by putting us on a pedestal.

SHAME ON YOU!

[fascisthunter]

52. Wow... that was a righteous smack-down

my father was a military man, AND THAT is how he saw things. He would say to me that those who claim to support the troops by wearing your service like a badge of honor are usually the least likely to give a damn, because they are the first to send you off to any war.

As if they somehow were entitled to send you all off to war when they felt so.

Anyways

[MichiganVote]

71. The "sacrifice" has moved to the homeland brother or have you missed the last 12 years?

[GreenPartyVoter]

42. My Dad, a Navy vet with a degree in counseling and married to my mother the teacher,

wouldn't have given points either.

[TalkingDog]

31. Yes. It is an assumed risk. You are taught that you will go into dangerous situations and how to

handle that.

Everyday self defense for Social Workers
http://everydayselfdefense.com/

Two county service departments receive self-defense training:
Survival skills instructor David Bradley taught self defense and awareness strategies to 50 county social service and health care workers.

http://www.maconnews.com/archive2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5103

The link is broken, but that does not negate my point.

[RobinA]

38. This Social Worker

has had two social work jobs where it was part of the job description to visit crack houses, houses in drug infested neighborhoods, and the homes of seriously mentally ill people. Etc. At night. By myself. Without any kind of defense.

I'm not saying it's Fallujah, but one does get sick of hearing about dangerous jobs with never a mention. I figure it's because most of us are women.

[Angry Dragon]

55. Perhaps you should do some research about assults on teachers and social workers

and not all soilders put their lives on the line
never in harms way

[riderinthestorm]

20. Police officers, firefighters, emt's... it is weird no other professions are noted. Just soldiers

as though nobody else may be worth mentioning or that they may also have risky public service jobs.

Good point.

[MichiganVote]

69. A-fucking-men to that.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Hint: There's no draft -- today it's a voluntary military.

So if you sign up to "serve" you know there's a good chance you will be asked to be shot at as you attempt to kill people in foreign lands.

[Indydem]

23. And thus the irony.

You go to a foreign warzone and survive, and return to be killed by Mr. Crazytown.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. We get the irony, but your initial reply really does sound condescending

in a way, and I think that is what people were taking issue with.

[1monster]

33. No? Teachers have risked their lives and died for others, even in the classroom.

Social workers also sometimes encounter serious danger in their work.

Ever beeni n a classroom when two highschoolers go at each other, homones raging and brains disengaged? I'm sure social workers have had to remove children from abusive parents who are not ready to have their children taken away...

Every job has it moments, but the two you mentioned are not the safest jobs in the country.

[JDPriestly]

46. Actually, some of the teachers in LA get wounded in the course of their duty.

I've known of several cases including one with serious injuries inflicted on the teacher by a student.

[tclambert]

47. I don't know. In some schools . . .

[MichiganVote]

70. In ALL schools. Shooters know NO boundaries.

[icarusxat]

48. teachers don't risk their lives? google that one

you will find that they not only risk their lives but also give their lives to help their students giving your life does not always mean that you are dead...
just sayin'

[HiPointDem]

63. you don't know much about teachers and social workers.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jared+Lee+Loughner&hl=en&prmd=imvnsuo&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=wNcJUMqgIpTtqAGc4oTVCg&ved=0CA8Q_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=580#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=teacher+stabbed+by+student&oq=teacher+stabbed+by+student&gs_l=serp.3..0j0i30l5j0i5j0i5i30.164029.168193.1.169962.26.21.0.0.0.0.774.12977.4-2j15j4.21.0...0.0...1c.JzLBHs_l9bI&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=783677770c4845cf&biw=1024&bih=580

[MichiganVote]

67. The fuck we don't. EVERY day I walk into schools anticipating the shooter. EVERY single day pal.

Do YOU walk into your job edgy like that?

EVERY single day of my work life I wonder if today is that day. So shut the fuck up about that. YOU don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[aquart]

5. No, it doesn't.

They may have been in uniform.

Which teachers and social workers never are.

Silly assumption.

[targetpractice]

6. My guess is there is probably some type of formal incident reporting process...

...amongst the military. Wounded servicemen probably had to report their status to the base. The military probably issued a statement to the press.

Not so much structure for teachers and social workers. Maybe?

[Robb]

15. It's simpler than that.

Military folks carry military IDs.

As it happens, teachers and what-not don't tend to identify their profession on their driver's licenses. Reporters report; this tidbit came quickly and easily, and isn't a value statement.

[gopiscrap]

21. Yes it is a value statement

just like giving discounts to the military..you never see a teacher or a social worker getting a discount.

[earthside]

8. Yeah. I saw that.

Someone else here at DU also posted a thread about that ... and my response was:
"What does that have to do with anything? Are military people more notable for some reason than the other victims?"

Actually, it goes to the culture that facilitates this kind of violence in our country: the war machine is a good thing; war is glorious and honorable.

What is wrong with us that anyone would feel like some people's occupations or vocations are worth more attention than any other persons' -- especially in a tragedy like this.

This all just keeps getting more and more perverse.

[gopiscrap]

10. Just what I said!

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. I agree. The same if was the mayor or a CEO or someone with a title.

The guy that works down at the auto parts store doesn't count.

I don't understand it either.

[Robb]

17. As I said upthread, does YOUR personal ID say what you do for a living?

Military IDs do. That's the only reason this is being reported -- because it was a fact of things that a reporter could report. No value judgments, just an easy sentence.

[gopiscrap]

24. All public school teachers and state social workers

carry governmental ID also..my wife does and do I

[1monster]

35. Well, yeah, sort of. It doesn't say so on my driver's license, but I do carry my school district ID

in my purse...

[hedgehog]

27. It's the irony; presumably making it through a theater of war only to come home and be shot at a

movie theater.

[Wait Wut]

32. Yep.

Like my friend's ex-gf. Her son served two tours in Iraq, one in Afghanistan. Gets out, comes home and dies in a car accident 3 weeks later.

[hedgehog]

45. It's a very old phenomenon - a bunch of Union soldiers made it through Andersonville

only to die in a steam boat explosion on the way home.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Sultana

[Tejas]

29. No, it shows where YOUR priorities are.

Really, is your OP your idea of a problem?

[ProSense]

30. The irony:

"My yahoo headline says that there were 3 servicemen wounded in the Colorado theater shooting"

...even members of the military don't carry guns outside of specific military activities.

Could you imagine if members of the military were armed at all times?

Wacko teabagger Congressman seems to think that the victims should have been armed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002980942

[PavePusher]

37. Actually, they can and often do carry under local laws....

just as some Civilians do. But they are not carrying as part of their military affiliation.

[ProSense]

39. Which

"But they are not carrying as part of their military affiliation."

...is the distinction made to point to the irony.

[randr]

34. I think it was of interest due to the

proximity of Buckley Air Base.

[PavePusher]

36. Military people generally carry an ID that indicates the miltary affiliation.

Teachers and social workers, probably not so much.

Wounded people generally have their ID checked so as to assist in the Next of Kin notification process and for medical insurance purposes.

Don't read something into this that isn't actually there.

[4th law of robotics]

40. They also made a point that some were children

does that mean that adults being killed isn't tragic?

[fascisthunter]

49. Wow... no shit. Excellent point! (nt)

[tclambert]

51. I think they're going for the irony.

Guy serves three tours in Iraq--not a scratch. Comes home and goes to a movie--gets shot.

[Siwsan]

54. Exactly what I was about to post. The irony is painful.

But my heart breaks equally for all of the victims and their families. This is an event of true nightmare proportions.

[Jamaal510]

53. I ask similar questions.

Like whenever there's some accident or killing, and the news talks about some celeb being among the people who were killed or injured. I notice they don't really do that much to mention other people who were hurt who could've been teachers, social workers, or other difference makers in their community. It kinda gives me the impression that the life of a celebrity is more of importance than the other people who get hurt.

[DCKit]

59. Propaganda. Those same three service members begging on a street corner, or dying in an alley...

wouldn't have made the news, at all.

[kurtzapril4]

62. Or children....

It's tragic when children are killed or wounded....adults? Meh.

[Bluerthanblue]

65. every single person is equally important~

you'll get no shit from me.

thank you for pointing this out.

It is so tiring and sad that we can't even mourn without having have people try to divide and seperate us implying that some victims are somehow more special than others.

I'm so fuckin sick of it....