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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDonna Brazile has more than paid her dues in the Democratic Party
You may not like what she's saying but she should be heard. Is there truth in what she's saying - even if you don't like it. You can be self-critical and resist the Con at the same time.
The party is bigger than all its candidates and Donna herself.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Sorry, Malaise... this Brazile woman is officially off-her-rocker! Seriously... WTF!?? Being disciplined and professional and focused is NOT the same thing as being a "cult".
That description may more accurately and more appropriately apply to other politicians, but not to Hillary Clinton. Donna Brazile is completely worthless. She can take that book, her advance, and her short-lived royalty checks and ride off into the sunset... never to be seen again. Fuck her!
LexVegas
(6,098 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... who resent the fact that they aren't "in charge" of the Democratic Party. The ones who are so far on the outskirts of the fringes that they can't comprehend real world politics.
It's a very Sarandonesque way of thinking.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Roland99
(53,342 posts)Maybe she just spent too much time in the Fox studios
malaise
(269,176 posts)and several others are in that camp, but she should still be heard,
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Both are WELCOME in our party!
Whoever shows up and makes themselves USEFUL is WELCOME to our DEM PARTY!
VOX
(22,976 posts)Any entity that jettisons its older members is simultaneously gutting and disposing of its institutional memory.
There is enormous value in maintaining long-term people they know the entitys past AND present protocols, customs, history, etc.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Im no longer a fan of hers, but not because of age.
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)See if this turns into Hillary bashing on his interview with her tonight.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Where people who devoted their lives to service were rewarded with our respect and the opportunity to put forward their positions and have them listened to with respect, even if they ran contrary to our expectations or desires.
Now we live in a time when all that matters is the howl of the crowd or the outrage of social media. Offend the delicate sensibilities of the loudest group and decades of public service mean nothing, you will be villified and outcast, even if eventually you are shown to have been proven right.
We get the politicians we deserve, and when you look at politics as a whole these days, we clearly don't deserve very much.
malaise
(269,176 posts)Should be an OP
betsuni
(25,638 posts)Like Hillary Clinton?
"you will be vilified and outcast, even if eventually you are shown to have been proven right."
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)I dont know if its hypocrisy, irony or just plain old cognitive dissonance, but that is one for the record books.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Maybe it might actually make more sense to you then.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)(Im assuming the time post meant was back in the day) politicians were white and male. Of course, I dont remember respecting Ronald Reagan very much.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)You read that and thought I was talking about one year ago? Seriously? If anything the treatment of Hillary by the right is an exact example of the kind of regression I've been talking about in our political discourse.
Perhaps if you put a little more effort into your reading comprehension and a little less into divisive attacks and stupid laughing emoticons then you might actually understand the points people are trying to make.
This is the second time today you've jumped in and posted a nonsensical row of emotes in response to a point I've made that appears to have gone completely over your head. If you don't want to appear like a partisan teenager, perhaps you should consider addressing this.
ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Rather than something you can put a hard date on. You can also of course find exceptions from long before (because people being unreasonable isn't anything new), but as a general rule I think its fair to say that there used to be considerably more respect shown to politicians of both parties by their political counterparts and by the country at large.
The GOP are responsible for breaking that relationship, and the despicable and utterly disgusting way they treated Hillary over the years is a prime example of this. There are of course countless other examples, culminating in the pre-school behavior they exhibited towards President Obama.
What saddens me is that by polluting the political arena the way they have, that it seems to have normalized disrespect across the spectrum. Donna Brazile deserved to be listened to, have her points debated, and yes if it turns out she was dishonest or working on a hostile agenda then she should be disgraced for it. Instead she was attacked pretty much from the second the story broke, with people already making up their minds before we really knew anything much. The second any new news broke, both sides leapt on the details twisting them to fit their own arguments, regardless of what any of it actually means.
I'm just tired of it all. If a politician lies and discards their integrity then they deserve to be called out and suffer the political consequences of that. I don't care if they call themselves a progressive or a liberal or a centrist or whatever. I have infinitely more respect for a politician with integrity who I don't align with myself, than I do for someone who shares my beliefs but has no integrity. I can respect someone and still disagree with them intellectually or politically. I miss the times when that was the norm.
ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)Politics has always been abrasive. Voltaire used to write pamphlets filled with stinging, mocking criticism for instance. In the USA, There were people who despised everyone from Washington to FDR and beyond and there was no respect.
BUt whats happened is everyone now has a platform for their opinion, and its easier to be overwhelmed by trends and trolls. On the other hand, Politics was also without diversity, and the idea of elder statesmen was very real. Structured manners have gone by the wayside to a large degree. We arent going to see a return of grave, dignified punditry when so many voices are being heard that are new to the mainstream. In fact, who the mainstream represents is changing. Im very curious what the generation after the millennials are going to do
Humans develop manners to get along. Even with the internet developed them fairly quickly, although trollery developed just as fast.
Brazile, well, all the experts Ive read are atrocious writing, and thus far not fact filled. That doesnt mean the rest of the book is without merit. Im not planning in reading it because of the writing. I dont listen to talk radio or watch TV for news, all the substantial political information I get is through reading. Donna Brazile is a experienced political scrapper, and something doesnt add up to me between what shes says is in the book and what is in the book. Her ghost writer was terrible.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)The media becoming far more partisan is also a big change of course, although both fall into the kind of timescales I mentioned.
I doubt I'll read her book either, if its as badly written as you say. I'm interested, but terrible writing is always a massive turn-off.
betsuni
(25,638 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)You clearly have nothing constructive to add. Goodbye.
betsuni
(25,638 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)"We used to live in a time where that was true....
Where people who devoted their lives to service were rewarded with our respect ...."
Now we do NOT live in that time.. And the fact that Clinton was treated like shit by republicans is living proof... The most experienced candidate for president I can remember in ages... and look what they did to her....
Response to Kentonio (Reply #5)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)About people who are proven to have deceived facing fully deserved disgrace. Part of that involves giving them time to talk and actually listening before rebutting their claims factually.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)We live in an age when increasingly the expression of ideas we don't agree with isn't a sign that people of good will and intentions disagree, but is rather the evidence of bad faith and corruption. Obviously there are a lot of ideas we shouldn't give the time of day to; but there are other times where someone can say something we strongly disagree with and yet still be worth listening to.
Bryant
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts) Is there truth in what she's saying - even if you don't like it.
Laurian
(2,593 posts)Love you, malaise, but cannot agree with you on this.
malaise
(269,176 posts)DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)She may have some good ideas but we will never know because
SHE LIED.
malaise
(269,176 posts)DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)She's the one claiming she was going to replace the primary winner. She's the one who gave debate questions.
She had earned respect and goodwill. Then she lit it on fire.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)And we don't like people like Brazile undermining our work and our party.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)mcar
(42,375 posts)Not anymore. She dug the hole she's in herself. I've lost a lot of respect for her.
Exactly my feelings.
Very disappointed.
I have lost respect and will not be buying her book
DanTex
(20,709 posts)malaise
(269,176 posts)at the same time
Demsrule86
(68,689 posts)away.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)I truly wish her the best and I do so with LOVE!
TBH I always thought she was such a cool lady. I still do.
If she corrects her course she is welcome in our DEM FAMILY!
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)My criticism of her was breaking that book right before the election. Could have made a tragic difference.
The problem is she repeated partial info and some other questionable tales.
Her message has gotten lost in her anger at ???
I was gobsmacked. She has been a touchstone for me forever. Thats why I believe she has some valid points. Lawd they have gotten lost among all the other. I will never understand this move and the way she did it.
malaise
(269,176 posts)The timing was odd but the party still won big time
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)And my bro too.
My gun ranting bro told me today its time to get rid of military guns & unrestricted sales.😳 Grew up in small country churches.Finally,something hit home.If he can change.....
malaise
(269,176 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)him that Hillary, Pelosi, etc do not want his guns. Not hunting guns, hand guns, shotguns...
we grew up going to small country churches. The Texas shooting must have hit home. He can really relate to that. Sad it took that though.
May not be a wave of people, but his remark was seismic to me.
malaise
(269,176 posts)Some never do - they think the churches should arm themselves.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,905 posts)If Donna Brazile had been involved in NJ - we would have lost big yesterday.
She's not helping. If she pulls more shit like this next November - she's dead to me. If she can't get out of her own - she needs to stay out of mine.
lkinwi
(1,477 posts)I really hope that Im wrong, but I have this persistent feeling that she thought Democrats would lose last night, and thats why her book came out when it did. She would sell more copies if we lost big. Even though I disagree with her tactics, I agree that our party should always do some soul-searching and changing when necessary.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Enjoy your money DB!
Truer colors were never more glaringly brighter.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029815902
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 8, 2017, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)
Why cant we even let people enjoy a victory around here. Nope, back to the distractions.
Brazile lied. Repeatedly. There is proof of this. Even she is trying to backtrack her nonsense. She apparently didnt even proof read her ridiculous book.
Anyone who judges the DNC, the Democratic party or Hillary based on the lies and distortions in this book is just looking for drama and distraction.
Congrats to Mr. Perez, the DNC, the Democratic Party and all the winning candidates yesterday. Thank you to the fantastic folks on the ground who helped get out the vote. And thanks to all who raised money and stumped for the candidates. ( Obama, Giffords, Clinton, Biden, etc. )
In one year, we need to repeat this victory on a mass scale. Nothing Brazile has said is working toward that goal. Lets focus on the important shit, not the fabricated drama.
There's not a damn thing wrong with what Perez is doing with the DNC.
See Virginia & New Jersey last night?
Thank you for the great assist DNC & Tom Perez.
Every effort & contribution that gave us the resounding win last night gets recognized today.
Sorry you played the dirty game Donna Brazile,
Was it worth it?
Instead of uniting on the side of the Dem Party for Va & NJ, you can now go to your TV Fox News talk show with Tucker.
I'm sure DB has much more to tell.
safeinOhio
(32,725 posts)I agree with you.
Donna has been a great Democratic leader. Long time Democrat, raised tons of money for the party and a strong Black Woman.
malaise
(269,176 posts)I have nothing to lose
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)By dropping this garbage THE WEEK BEFORE THE ELECTIONS.
We owe her nothing.
Zero.
Paying her dues doesn't mean she gets excused for anything she does.
moda253
(615 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)There are some names which are guaranteed to bring out attack responses.
One being "Sanders",
and now we can add Donna Brazile.
They sadly are 'red flags'.
But as Donna said on TV recently,
everyone else (Clinton, Biden, etc) have put out their books.
Now she's put out her perspective.
malaise
(269,176 posts)Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
BannonsLiver
(16,460 posts)Has she not been heard?
elfin
(6,262 posts)Too late. We are done with you, DB.
If any network does hire you, their ratings will tank when you show up.
CatMor
(6,212 posts)that interest being money. How many books would she sell if she hadn't written what she did. My guess is not many. She is now in the spot light and her response to any criticism was "go to hell". She also made a statement that she worried for her safety because of the murder of Seth Rich, giving credence to the ridiculous conspiracy theory regarding his death. She is good at being a drama queen and blaming others. She had a choice to write what she did and I have the choice not to buy the book.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)delisen
(6,044 posts)People who worked for George Bush Donald Rumsfeld, and Mitch McConnell are responsible for this book.
Donna Brasile is responsible for choosing to work with them.
The book is a Republican hit piece on the Democratic Party.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)............And she helped
PatrickforO
(14,592 posts)We need to stop allowing ourselves to be divided. On another post, I just saw some serious negativity aimed at DFA, which is a progressive group. Let's not do that, shall we?
We are much better off if we work together to win elections. The party is NOT perfect. It never has been. But it's a hell of a lot better than the radical libertarian nightmare the once Grand Old Party has become.
Let's get about the business of working together to take back our republic from these corrupt lizards.
questionseverything
(9,660 posts)with that HUGE diversity we are going to have disagreements and different points of view
and that's ok
Demsrule86
(68,689 posts)Her future is with Fox.
louis c
(8,652 posts)... but, in the end, that's not what he's remembered for.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)Oh there's dysfunction at the DNC...???? there's dysfunction wherever people are.
still_one
(92,409 posts)"liking" what she says, it is a question that she is fully misrepresenting and distorting the facts. Howard Dean and others have pointed out her misinformation.
Perhaps the worst thing about her sensationalism though, is she chose to release the most negative accusations in excerpts published through Politico, which every news outlet quickly broadcast, before an extremely important election. The nicest thing I can say about her is she has judgement issues.
From my perspective, Donna Brazille has been a mediocre at best leader within the Democratic party, and this latest action demonstrates that she is also an extremely divisive force. Not because she is critical of the party, but because her criticism is flawed, and much of it false.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,460 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)and now I no longer trust her motives. Once lost, that is hard for me to regain.
And while my personal opinion of her means absolute nothing to her...
losing trust is one of the major consequences of exercising those rights in published ink.
She was obviously willing to risk that, on a pretty huge scale for whatever reasons and shell have to deal with it.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)I don't like what seems to be the imprecise and probably factually inaccurate nature of some of her charges. I am upset with her timing in airing dirty laundry on the eve of a critical election cycle. No doubt there are other things I can say not complimentary to Donna as well. On top of that I don't always agree with her opinions.But Donna is not crazy. But Donna is not stupid. Donna is not a mere tool of the Republicans, and Donna is not a gold digger who only cares about herself.
It is just as insulting to peddle those specific negative memes against Brazile, an African American woman who has devoted her entire life to advancing the Democratic agenda for America, as it has been to read some of the anti-Hillary memes that have been propagated against her by those who claim to have the interests of Democrats at heart. She can be wrong. She can be losing the forest for the trees. She can be acting in a counter productive manner - those are charges against her that can legitimately be debated.
And I note that Brazile is an African American woman for a legitimate reason. I had reason to be in an extended correspondence with her during 2004 and 2005, and in the course of that I gained some insights into what she has been dealing with for the course of her career. Donna is venting in public now, but she has faced consistent headwind, the type that people here normally label as institutional sexism and racism, while working inside of the Democratic Party. For twenty years she was a high profile black woman inside an arena dominated by white men, and from what I was able to garner, she was not always treated with the same degree of implicit respect others received in her line of work.
Maybe she has some grievances. Maybe they aren't being processed in the most appropriate ways. Maybe she's flat our wrong in key regards. But Donna Brazile is not crazy. She is not stupid. She does not seek to advance a Republican agenda, and she is not a cash crazed mercenary primarily pursuing politics for personal gain.
malaise
(269,176 posts)Thank you
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)And I am appalled someone with so much disdain for our nominee was in charge at the DNC through the general.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)Between that, the timing of her book drop, and being besties with Karl Rove, the entire thing is sketchy AF.
SandyZ
(186 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)Demsrule86
(68,689 posts)to me.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)but I couldn't disagree more in this case.
She's revealed herself both as temporary DNC head and now to be profoundly dishonorable, dishonest, and malicious. She damaged the DNC with her unethical behavior and she betrayed the trust she had accepted very venally and nastily.
We owe her nothing, what she owes us she can never repay, and she is also dead to me.
Demsrule86
(68,689 posts)sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Demsrule86
(68,689 posts)Scoopster
(423 posts)Umm, that's the problem. SHE LIED AND GOT CAUGHT DOING IT. And now she's insisting on doubling down on that.
This isn't about party, or dues paid, or even loyalty. This is about lying to get a pay day.
PunksMom
(440 posts)I was a fan of hers, but that has changed. I just dont get why she had to start this whole thing now? She absolutely had to know she was feeding a slew of republican dogs who were hungry for something...anything! Her timing was horrible, and I cant help thinking, deliberate. Not cool at all DB😾
Me.
(35,454 posts)I can't imagine how she is going to work with an organization she just stabbed in the back. Nor why they would want her there. She should take her money and retire to a life made comfortable by all that book money.
delisen
(6,044 posts)of making money as a pundit for right leaning shows.
She is not and will not be the only person getting air time for criticizing Democratic Party.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Demsrule86
(68,689 posts)Rene
(1,183 posts)Timing of all her appearances is suspiciously like Comey's announcement 2 weeks before vote.
Check who's publishing/backing her "book".
Go home Donna/Traitor/back stabber....get an ordinary job. You blew it.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)I like Donna, and her book confused me, to say the least but this is bullshit right here.
nolabear
(41,991 posts)People's lives are at stake and she's letting herself be used by that asshole. Jesus, what Hillary has put up with. I'd have gone on somebody by now.
Response to seaglass (Reply #85)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Nothing like posing for pics with a nazi bastard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Clarke_(sheriff)
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)With that psychopath.
The hell with her. I hope she is made a pariah by the Dem establishment. Let OR or Fox hire her.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)If I had Trump money, I could pay me dues and rent a floor of the Ritz Cartlon for a month: that will not mean they will allow me to defecate in the front lobby.
Squinch
(51,015 posts)are provably false. For money.
Nope. No one has paid enough dues to trash Democrats with lies or falsehoods in my book. This was a craven act on her part. I will not spend any more of my time on her nonsense.
No more Democrats trashing Democrats.
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)Horrible pundit and voice of the Dems.
I'll be very happy to never hear from her again.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)malaise
(269,176 posts)The question remains - is there any truth in the book? Has she raised some valid issues? No institution that does not examine itself improves.
What makes it OK for others to peddle their books? And if she's only in it for the money, then why did she accept the position without PAY?
Yes the timing was an issue but it did not affect Election Day.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)Can you point to a single thing she's written that merits debate? The stupidity she displayed over the memos indicates to me that DB's tome isn't well-written.
Further, I wonder why she had to resort to such a disreputable publisher.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)PROVEN WITH FACTS.
Lies do not raise "valid issues."
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)MFM008
(19,820 posts)this turn of events.
liberal N proud
(60,346 posts)At one time I respected her, then she lied for personal gain
Response to malaise (Original post)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to malaise (Original post)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)I would like her to "woman up" and admit her errors and issue the appropriate apologies.
However, there is clearly some hurt, frustration, and anger surrounding her tenure at the DNC. I don't think we're really getting at the heart of what bothered her. Ego is a part of it, but there's more. There is something in the way that the place was operating that was not consistent with past practice, nor with an operating plan for party victory.
I suspect that is why Obama built up and continue to operate OFA... because he simply found too much dysfunction at the DNC.
What/where exactly is the dysfunction and how can we fix it in time for the midterms? That's what we need to focus on.
malaise
(269,176 posts)I suspect that is why Obama built up and continue to operate OFA... because he simply found too much dysfunction at the DNC.
What/where exactly is the dysfunction and how can we fix it in time for the midterms? That's what we need to focus on.
You nailed it.
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)This is a fine post for non apocalyptic times but in the dystopian world we live in, the only thing that matters are the coming elections.
Clintons and Donna are history. Right now we have a would be dictator destroying everything Democrats believe in. The battle is now.