This has been bugging me for a while now but I never posted it because

[Drale]

I didn't want to start a flame war or get personally attacked as these things so often happen in posts about guns. There is something majorly wrong is this country. There is a constant attack on our right to vote, the most sacred right we have, in my opinion but every time someone ever talks about setting limits on gun ownership, people go freaking bat shit crazy. Why is this? What is our obsession with guns? Is there a epidemic of very small penis's in the US that we need to compensate? I like gun's, I really do especially old guns and i like shooting them at ranges but I also like to live and want others to live as well and as far as I'm concerned one mass shooting is to many and we need stop this obsession with guns.

I'm sorry for ranting and I'm sorry if I offended anyone but this is the way I feel. Stupid people with guns only leads to one thing, death. We have seen this over and over and over, yet no one seems to want to do anything about it.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. oh boy....

(my serious comment on this - for a country that was founded on courage, we sure seem to be scared shitless more and more - to me it all comes down to why fear is so pervasive in the US...)

[L0oniX]

35. +1000000

[Curtland1015]

2. I don't think anyone here is against regulation.

The real argument is between those that want ALL guns banned, and those that don't.

[Drale]

4. I didn't really mean here on DU

more of in the United States in general.

[Dragonfli]

7. There are many here against regulation I am sorry to say

I was just reading a thread where a poster rationalized that cop killer bullets are good as well as large magazines and pretty much every other military type modification.

He claims limiting these would limit all bullets and make it hard to "hunt".

I finally figured out what "hunt" is really a euphemism for. Apparently theater hunting is the best game.

[GarroHorus]

9. Bingo

It would help if current laws were actually applied, too. The gOP has done everything it can to see to it there's no money for enforcement.

Better yet, kill all the loopholes in existing laws AND put up the money for enforcement.

[pscot]

12. That is not true

No one with any credibility is arguing that all guns be banned. In fact I can't recall any mention of a total gun ban from anyone except the NRA. That's fear mongering, meant to short circuit any discussion of reasonable controls over the availability and use of firearms. The Brady bill was the highwater mark of gun control. Since then it's been all one way; toward more and more guns in our homes and on the streets, driven by a campaign of intimidation and fear mongering sponsored by the gun makers and sellers. They've won. And because "guns don't kill" they've managed to avoid any responsibility for the slaughter they've engendered. Peace.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. There are in the gungeon, though they could be trolls.

But there are lots of people who are willing to ban certain 'classes' of firearms like so-labeled-by-congress 'assault weapons'. Most of us don't view this as a legitimate classification, because it starts becoming impossible to differentiate between the most modern of semi-auto rifles, and 100 year old rifle technology, all of which have legitimate, practical uses in civilian ownership.

[morningfog]

14. The real argument is between those who want sensible, reasonable regulation

and those that want NO regulation.

[Major Nikon]

24. I can't agree with you

There are plenty here on DU who will simply repeat creme-de-la-nutbag LaPierre's talking points at the mere suggestion of the least infringement on the 'right' to buy any gun at any time at any place without any documentation whatsoever. If you need proof of this, simply browse any one of a number of threads on this subject in the last two days.

[AllyCat]

36. There are some here on DU that are against regulation.

[Doctor_J]

40. Bullshit

the teabaggers want all restrictions removed, and bitch to high heaven about ANY restriction.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. It's our culture of violence. We cheer our military exploits. We put bumper stickers

on our cars "kill 'em all and take the oil". We love our violent video games and shoot 'em up movies. We promote 'rugged individualism' and Ayn Rand thinking. We no longer are concerned about anybody except ourselves and our immediate families. The hell with the unions, community get-togethers, and building understanding of 'others'. We have lost our sense of nation.

[Romulox]

8. I concur with this, and would add: We kill at will with drones overseas...we fight forever wars in

the middle east...we topple Khadafhi like a tin can...we are so frustrated that Russia and China are blocking our "coalition of the willing" from doing the same to Assad...

[sinkingfeeling]

10. Yep. There are thousands of examples.

[grahamhgreen]

26. Exactly. All our solutions are violent: war on this war on that. nt

[LiberalLoner]

30. +1

[redqueen]

31. +1

[hlthe2b]

5. I too wonder why the concern for our voting rights/integrity is so minimized by that for gun rights.

If it were truly a constitutional rights issue, why would these same individuals not be more supportive of voting rights movements--why would there not be an NRA-sized effort towards protecting voting rights?

I don't think it takes much to realize the answers, if we are really honest with ourselves. sigh....

[SoutherDem]

6. I have been reading all the post this morning about the shooting

and they seem to be pro-gun vs. anti-gun. They seem to be to extremes. No middle ground accepted. But, if we would defend our right to vote with the same vigor as our right to own guns EVERYONE would be able to vote. If we defended our right to worship or not worship the as each person wished the same as totally unrestricted gun access NO ONE would ever have to worry about their right to worship to be limited.

As for me my position on guns make both sides mad. I am in the middle on the argument and that makes all mad.

[leveymg]

11. You captured what a lot of us have been quietly thinking about guns in America.

Too many guns and too many people willing to use them against others.

Consider this country to be armed and dangerous.

[ieoeja]

13. The strictist of strict constitutionalists are opposed to any amendments beyond the Bill of Rights.

And voting rights was not established in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. So while the northern states gave voting rights to pretty much all white males, the southern states enacted poll taxes and literacy tests (with no public schools) to keep "those" white males from voting. And that was perfectly Constitutional at the time.

The first right to vote is listed in Amendment XV.

Also, the most inflamed of the pro-gun crowd live in perpetual fear. Voting does nothing for them. Having a gun does. They wouldn't care all that much about losing their right to vote if they were certain they would never lose their right to a firearm.

[Patiod]

15. While meanwhile it's a-OK to attack our RIGHT TO VOTE

That's what gets me.

If you suggest we handle guns like we handle cars and register, train and license gun owners, people of all political stripes start screaming about an amendment to the constitution that talks about guns in the context of a well-regulated militia - an amendment that for much of our history was NOT seen as carte blanche to openly carry just about any weapon short of an A-bomb.

But disenfranchise anyone who has ever been to prison, purge the voter roles, and set up ID requirements that many young, old, and minority non-driver voters won't be able to meet, all of which clearly take away the RIGHT TO FUCKING VOTE - now that's just peachy and American and 100% constitutional.

[HopeHoops]

16. Well said.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. It might help if you didn't start out with the penis canard.

It's tired. It's old. It's bullshit.

As for the rest of this, I tend to agree, and I am AT LEAST as vociferous about defending our voting rights, and all the rest, as I am about the 2nd amendment.

The reason I think people like me tend to end up posting in the 'gungeon' more than other places is, I am out of line with the party platform on this issue, and I am concerned about it because I see it as an election loser that has cost us dearly in the last two decades. I don't post much in the other folders because I see no point preaching to the choir.


But to get back to the penis thing, I don't point a gun at anything I am not willing to destroy. I don't point my penis at anything I am willing to destroy. There is no overlap between the two subjects. Competitiveness doesn't necessarily map to penis envy, any more than wanting to get a really nice guitar, or a particular home stereo, or a really nice bicycle. I'm not going to jam my bicycle in my wife's nether regions as a sexual object. It isn't. My desire to have a really nice cannondale, or whatever, isn't linked to the size of my penis, any more than wanting a really nice US M1917 .30-06 in good condition is. (I have two, one for hunting, and the other looks like a perfect specimen for a museum.)

There may be people out there with an actual psychosis around penis size, but it's a unfair thing to try and internet armchair diagnose an entire class of people who own a particular object with.

[Indydem]

19. Please, answer me this:

These criminals commit the ultimate crime; they snuff out the life of an individual. Sometimes, in the case of these loony tunes in Arizona and Colorado, multiple individuals.

They have already chosen to be criminals.

What kind of gun laws are you going to put on the books that will stop these random acts of violence? Unless you literally raid every home in the country, and seize every gun ever made, and stop allowing police to carry firearms that can be stolen or misplaced, then you will never succeed in stopping these horrible acts.

These people are already law breakers, breaking another law to steal a lawful gun, modify a lawful gun, or buy a gun illegally is not going to deter them.

I honestly want to know what law will stop them when they already have committed themselves to breaking the law and killing people.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. A well-read electorate, being necessary to the security of a free state,

the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.


(There was a problem in interpretation in this thread fork, all right.)

[amuse bouche]

21. I'm not a fan

of guns and don't get the mindset of the gun lovers. And yes, plenty of them are 'bat shit' crazy

[matt819]

23. You are so right

Our legislators go weak in the knees at the altar of the NRA.

[riverbendviewgal]

27. Gun politics

This could give people a great understanding about guns in the world..

Personally, I feel pretty safe in Canada and the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

[LiberalLoner]

28. I think what is happening is gigantic fear of "other" among certain people.

I don't mean to denigrate or paint with a broad brush, but many of those people tend to be white and Republican or conservative-leaning. My own father is like James Holmes in many ways - he has a shitload of weapons, protective masks (gas masks in civilian talk), every weapon he can get his hands on. Every vehicle he has has weapons and ammo stored in it. He lives in Lakeside, Montana. What is he so afraid of? Muslim terrorism. In Lakeside, Montana.

He's been an alcoholic for decades now and there is no reasoning with him. He literally has significant brain damage from all the gluggity-gluggity. His wife, also an active alkie, is another right-wing extremist who is friends with people in white supremicist groups in the Kalispell area. (You might know that that part of the country is a "homeland" for neo-Nazis.)

I don't bother talking politics with him. I don't bother even visiting him because I can't stand to watch him in the throes of active alcoholism and because of extensive abuse he did to me when I was a child.

But my father and his wife are prime examples of the kind of people you are talking about. In their minds, taking away voting rights from "the other" is a GOOD thing and having weapons taken away from them to shoot brown people with is a BAD thing.

And there are MILLIONS of people out there just like my father and his wife, sadly. People who are brain-damaged by booze, drugs, or just born with brains that don't work very well.

[Doctor_J]

29. Welcome to fascism, Drale

every far right initiative moves steadily forward (guns, voter purges, mandatory religious tests, decimation of public schools, unions, ...) and there isn't a fucking thing we can do about it, legally.

[Daemonaquila]

37. The fascism tag doesn't work there, regarding guns.

It's so fun to use that term, but it doesn't work. Voter purges, religious testing, destruction of education and union - yup, that would be fascism. But NOT restricting gun ownership? One of these things is not like the others, as they'd say on Sesame Street. The Nazis didn't like having a population armed and able to fight back. It's sad that the GOP wants unrestricted access, but the Dems and a lot of others on the political left are willing to be just as extreme in the other direction. At the base level, weapons, including guns, are just another tool. Restrictions would not stop someone like the theater shooter - guns can be gotten illegally without a lot of trouble, as can gasses, explosives, top grade protective gear, etc. If someone wants to murder a group of people, it is anything but challenging.

[Doctor_J]

39. except for the fact that the same fascists are implementing all of those.

The same elected officials, corporations, and media that are ramming though the rest of the fascist agenda are also pressing for all gun laws to be removed. So if you support those officials, you're supporting ALL of those initiatives. As for boxes full of guns enabling us to fight back, how's that working for you? How many shots have been fired in opposition to the teahaddists?

Your "guns = freedom" schtick fails the reality check.

[Chorophyll]

32. It's not a rant.

It's quite reasonable. I can't imagine anyone flaming you over this.

[Gregorian]

33. GUNS ARE POWER.

This is the conclusion I have come to after many years of watching. It is the bottom line. You have a knife, I have a gun. I'm more powerful. The logical extension is the atomic bomb. I make a connection all the way to the top.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. You are not alone

Also the code drives me crazy.

[ananda]

38. Something I've noticed.

Some people have a kind of voyeuristic erotic love of war and violence.
It's in the way they talk about guns and war. What's difficult is that
often, in every other way, they're great people.

Me personally, I have a hard time dealing with this kind of person. On
one level, I'm completely horrified and appalled and repelled by the
war-violence passion; and on another level I find them very interesting
and fun people in other areas of life.

[Festivito]

41. Banning things causes people to hoard.

Or, as you put it, they look bat-shit crazy.

It happened with alcohol, it happens with drugs, and it happens with guns. People drank more than they needed, take more than they need and now want to own more than they need.

We need to think outside the box on this issue.