OK NRA supporters

[malaise]

Defend this slaughter in Denver.
15 dead - nine critical among 50 injured.

[safeinOhio]

1. You know the drill.

NRA will tie this to Obama's 10 point secret plan to take away grandpa's shotgun.

[nxylas]

11. If everyone in that darkened theater had been armed...

...surely someone would have been able to see through the smoke bombs and general chaos and been able to take out the shooter before he killed any more innocents.

I know enough gun nuts to be able to predict what the response will be without even asking.

[DrDan]

22. my thoughts exactly - the thinking of way too many will not go beyond that

and of course, the more that are armed, the safer they would be . . . bizarre

[Meg_Griffin_1]

25. I CCW 24/7..

I have had a CCW since I was 22 and I do not leave home without it. I will not be a statistic!

[Hoyt]

26. Lot of good it would have done you last night. More guns, in more places, ain't gonna protect you.

[Meg_Griffin_1]

33. You must be the 26% that voted to repeal the 2nd amendment. N/T

[Hoyt]

52. Naw, but to keep you in guns, we have to allow folks like this terrorist to arm up. More guns won't

help.

By the way, what well regulated militia are you in?

[bpj62]

53. Repeal the 2ns Amendent

What vote are you referring to. The congress has never voted on a amendment to repeal the second amendment. Please clarify your statement. A CWP is a nice thing to have but it does you no good if the other guy gets the drop on you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. So you go every three months to the tactical range

And practice? This is the kind of tactical shooting most CCW holders never train for. The ones who do happen to be cops.

[Dokkie]

85. Eye witnesses

saw shooter standing and shooting moviegoers. I dont think its unimaginable that one of those eye witnesses if they had a gun wouldn't have fire back and killed the gunman before he killed/injured more people. Also the fact that he wasn't ready to die makes me believe that he wouldn't have picked a movie theater filled with CCW people in the 1st place.

Now imagine if he had a samurai sword with him in a dark crowded theater filled with teenager or had a couple of water bottle filled with gasoline and a match, I would argue that he could have killed about half his final number. The problem is that we live in a society of millions of people each of whom would be insane and highly motivate to take out a bunch of people. Having an armed society ensures that only the truly determined and insane will ever take their murderous idea into the real world

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Two questions, well several

1.- What are your considerations before you open fire?

2.- Assuming you hit a perfect shot, center of mass and all that, benefit of doubt, two, without peeking, what becomes your center of mass next when your shooter turns all his attention to you? Yup, undivided and all?

Remember, this is a tactical shooting scenario, not your static range.

[Dokkie]

91. First of all

I am assuming that I am not the one who has to open fire. Hopefully there are well trained shooters, maybe war veterans who happened to be in the movie theater with me. But I will guess since I dont own a gun or have never held one talkless of firing one that any return fire will confuse the shooter, bullet proof vest and all. He is the only one in the room standing or not running off and everyone body else hiding behind a chair could be returning fire

So a dozen rounds by a couple CCW people should cut the shooting spree down.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Next question, you can look the stats online

What is the average hit ratio for a well trained shooter in a tactical situation?

(The FBI has those stats, and unlike Hollywood, it's not that high)

First, shooting is a skill that degrades, why police officers go back to both the static and tactical range every so often, ditto for military and special forces.

Second, those of us who've actually shot a gun, in my case a static range, or been in a shoot out for real, realize the real limitations in a shooting. For the record, those limitations is one reason I wasn't hit.

A hint, when your shooter don't fall, your center of mass becomes the head. This is an even harder target to hit, by the way.

Secondly, it's not just your target, when you open fire you need to consider follow through, yes bullets go through people, hence who or what is behind your target. Hence, you need to even chose your ammo for those considerations, why many urban cops prefer a .40 over the 9mm..

And the evidence shows, that all fantasy aside, statistically somebody in there had a gun, besides the shooter, it could be a cop, they have CCW's, or a civilian.

We need to get over the fantasy and grasp the reality. CCW for all is not the solution.

[Whiskeytide]

98. I agree...

... and would add that, when the cops arrive on a highly fluid scene like this, anyone in the crowd waiving a gun is - and probably should be - a target.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Oh I didn't even go there

But people, while well intended, woud be charged once ballistics reveal some ammo came from their well intended weapon.

[Left Coast2020]

157. Great Idea

Lets put everyone in a room full of gasoline and give them all matches.

[Iggo]

158. When was that vote?

[aka-chmeee]

45. I concur,

I wonder what the toll would have been with two or three CC Dirty Harry wannabees in the crowd blasting away. Every CCP that is issued just makes it more dangerous to be an innocent bystander.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Devil's advocate

Some make sense, cops and retired cops.

Some places only issue them for a clear and present danger. Hell a few decades ago I could have qualified, but chose not to.

Some places issue them like candy, those are the places where I have a problem with.

[brewens]

110. If the NRA had their way you'd see even more carnage. What is just a brawl would

end up with someone dead. Maybe a kid waxing someones windows on Halloween get shot. The more armed people you have, the more drunks and idiots with guns.

[DrDan]

42. bars? schools? public buildings? business with signs stating no weapons?

[Ruby the Liberal]

51. If you get blindsided like happened last night.

You will be under a sheet with your CCW safely at your side.

Overconfidence can be deadly.

[hamsterjill]

61. Exactly.

And, correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be forgetting something), but has there ever been an instance like this where someone was armed and actually stopped the killing?

There was that church service where a security guard shot the gunman, but I'm referring here to actual "common people" (i.e., not "professionals&quot who might be carrying a concealed weapon legally.

[Dustlawyer]

63. Everyone shooting in there could have been better, if they took out the right one quickly, but

morebut more likely much worse in the panic and a lot of them already drunk or high.

[lapislzi]

73. Good luck.

Good luck defending your weapon in your sleep.

Good luck retaining your privileges on this message board.

I gave up my weapon 18 years ago and will not own another. The responsibility of keeping it defended and secure at all times was more than I cared to shoulder.

[Drale]

77. You probably would have ended up shooting someone innocent

The theater was full of smoke and pure chaos. Its so easy to say I would have done this. The truth is, when the bullets start flying, you like the rest of us would probably hit the ground and shit your pants.

[coalition_unwilling]

78. You may become a statistic (actuarial type) of death or injury due

to accidental discharge of a firearm.

Just hope you keep your firearms and the ammunition secured from all young children. They never signed on to your kookery.

[Bettie]

111. Where do you live that is so violent and terrifying to you that you need to be armed at all times?

Really. I don't get it.

I choose to live in a relatively safe community.

I don't fear my neighbors, nor do I fantasize about someday shooting someone to death.

I don't want guns banned, though I do support regulation and would like them kept out of the hands of children and people who are mentally unbalanced.

I honestly pity people who are so terrified of the world around them that they feel they must have a gun with them, always, to feel safe.

[Not Me]

131. Statistically speaking, you are more likely to be one.

nt

[samsingh]

152. if someone shoots you from the back from a distance, i don't see what you can do about it.

[sabrina 1]

156. I don't have a CCW and I leave home without it all the time and I am not a statistic.

And I know untold numbers of people who do not own a CCW and are not statistics either.

I wonder why you are in so much more danger than all those people? Do you live in a war zone?

[nxylas]

71. As sure as night follows day

From Facebook: "Any bets as to whether or not the theater posted 'no guns' signs? I'm sure we will soon find out..."

[Tsiyu]

164. They did

and as I said below, just heard a wacknut rightwing talk host in San Antonio ( didn't catch the lunatic's name, sorry ) saying the families of some of the victims may be filing suit against the theater for not allowing them to carry inside the theater.

Even with all the body armor, helmet, etc, this cretin talk host is just SURE someone with CCP would have taken Holmes out! Cuz he was there! And his studio chair gives him special powers to know these things.

[nxylas]

165. Don't you know that everyone with a concealed carry permit shoots like Deadeye Dick?

A permit confers upon the holder the magical ability to shoot a guy in full body armor in a darkened movie theater filled with tear gas (source: the internet).

[coalition_unwilling]

79. Everyone needs to watch "Platoon" to see what a real

firefight looks and feels like. This from my Dad, a Korean War USMC vet who saw action and was seriously wounded at Inchon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. I concur

The second movie that gets close is Saving Private Ryan, the landing on Normandy was pretty close...

[coalition_unwilling]

87. Yeah, I don't think I ever discussed SPR with my Dad. But that scene is pretty

awful. I always cry when I watch it.

[nanabugg]

148. I bet half the people in that theater were armed. nt

[Javaman]

57. Next up: NRA demands every American own night vision goggles!! nt

[coalition_unwilling]

82. Oh, God, I know you're being sarcastic but without

the sarcams emoticon this sounds too close to reality.

[soccer1]

92. Maybe.....

Last edited Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

but if everyone in that theater had been armed maybe they would have shot innocent people in their efforts to get the gunman......

not all gun owners are well trained and experienced enough to handle that type of situation.

[phleshdef]

93. If everyone had been armed, its likely more people would be dead due to the confusion.

Citizens engaging in massive gun fights is a stupid idea.

[soccer1]

101. I agree

[CbtEngr01]

143. what about a cop?

what about a law enforcement officer standing at the main entrance door to that perticular screening room, or even one at every room. Would the LEO have had a chance at stopping the attacker any sooner than someone legaly carrying a handgun?
Say an off duty deputy had been sitting close to the emergency exit Holmes entered through, and recognized & destroyed the threat. Any different result than if it had been a law abiding citizen carrying a handgun?

What if there was a cowboy action quick draw match champion there...

In reference to the "darkened theater" comment. Atleast 2 ways to tell where the attacker is. The ambient light in the room, from the screen and the muzzle flash. Heres an exercise: it takes 2 people. You extend your index finger and close your eyes. Tell the other person to walk around and stop whenever they like, from 2 to 25 yards away from you. When they stop they say "OK". Keeping your eyes closed you point at their chest, then open your eyes and see just where you are pointing. Should be dead on, if not then practice is needed

[nxylas]

145. And are there a ton of people panicking and screaming in the room where this exercise takes place?

And even if the Lone Ranger had been in that cinema, as per gun nut fantasies, the guy was wearing full-body bulletproof armor (something I didn't know when I typed my previous post, lest you accuse me of trying to move the goalpoasts).

[joeybee12]

2. They can't...knr

[noel711]

3. What's going on in Colorado?

so much crap occurred there, and just keeps on keeping on.

I understand the western attitude of individuality, and the noxious
philosophy of 'guns' rule.

but why so much in Colorado?
I thought Colorado was the center of the religious right...

oh...(ding ding ding)

I get it now.

It's all God's will.. just ask Zimmerman..
(face palm)

[malaise]

5. here

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-shooting-denverbre86j0am-20120720,0,6584688.story

[malaise]

19. Clearly I needed my coffee

[Hoyt]

27. Religious right, lax gun laws, and big "gun culture."

[malaise]

6. I agree

I'd prefer to see some fat cookie eating slobs rather than lunatics with three weapons opening fire on innocent people

[barbtries]

32. works for me.

then we can just smile at each other, and giggle, and no one gets killed, maimed, or imprisoned.

[Marinedem]

107. That's a pretty flawed line of thought.

Pot is illegal- pot still is available in every town in America

Guns are illegal- Guns will suddenly somehow not be available.

Spare me.

Prohibition is retarded.

[HangOnKids]

124. Retarded is not a word DU condones

Maybe in your spare me zeal you might delete that. Thanks!

[Laurian]

8. The NRA will use their money and influence to deflect any criticism of the gun culture.

I can honestly say I hate guns and I hate the NRA and the notion that gun ownership is a god given right.

I am heartsick that so many innocent people have been terrorized, injured and killed.

[Locrian]

9. not defending...

But getting rid of NRA = no deaths?

Gun fetishism, love of violence, living in a fantasy world, worship of power while at the same time being powerless, are all symptoms of a cultural problem. It's a weeee bit bigger than the NRA.

[eShirl]

10. Why would an NRA member, or anyone else, defend mass murder?

It's like saying, "OK boxcutter users, defend 9/11."

[leftynyc]

12. Do you realize

that people can be responsible gun owners and still think the NRA members are assholes?

[malaise]

17. Look you need to tell me why someone needs an AK47rifle

This fugger had four guns including one of those. He is a fucking right wing terrorist.
Where are the fugging regulations re guns?

[leftynyc]

21. I don't think anyone needs an assault rifle

That wasn't your question in the OP. Just pointing out that not all gun owners belong or agree with the NRA.

[nxylas]

102. Hell, not all NRA members agree with the NRA

Michael Moore stated at the beginning of Bowling for Columbine that he belongs to the NRA.

[Marrah_G]

36. I agree with tighter gun regulations

We need uniform regulations across all states.

But to say he is a rw terrorist is something we really do not have any way of knowing yet.

[Llewlladdwr]

162. An AK-47? Really?

Does it bother you at all to just make stuff up?

[obamanut2012]

24. Thank you

[Bertha Venation]

66. I'm torn about the Second Amendment

but I respect responsible gun owners. I don't own a gun (besides a BB gun to chase away raccoons) and probably never will. I can't understand the attraction, although I do understand the desire to have a way to protect oneself in this messed-up society.

As for the Second Amendment, I just can't get past that well-regulated militia part.

[leftynyc]

69. I understand what you"re saying

but I look at it a different way. The 2nd, along with the other 9 bill of rights protects us from the government. Of course this was before nuclear weapons, chemical weapons and the like and the average citizen will never win a shooting war with the government. All I can tell you is that when bush got elected in 2004, I felt the need to protect myself.

[samsingh]

13. i know, its disgusting. access to such powerful weapons enables this.

[Johnny Rico]

15. Define "powerful", please.

What restrictions do you advocate, if any, to keep citizens from owning "powerful" weapons?

[Hoyt]

30. Ban manufacturing of them would be a good start. Instead NRA and other right wingers will

have us sit on our ass for another decade, during which time we'll have another 100 million guns acquired that we'll have to deal with when we finally decide to bite the bullet and deal with the problem.

[Johnny Rico]

34. You didn't answer the question. Define "powerful" in this context, please.

Instead NRA and other right wingers will have us sit on our ass for another decade, during which time we'll have another 100 million guns acquired that we'll have to deal with when we finally decide to bite the bullet and deal with the problem.

We're not going to "deal" with the problem...at least not in the way you (presumably) envision.



We're getting more rights, not less.

[A Simple Game]

70. How about "powerful" equals anything that gives a coward

a large dose of courage. Nobody goes into the public and stabs 60 or 70 people, just doesn't nor will it happen. Guns give cowards courage, plain and simple

As a gun owner, what scares me the most are no compromise people like you and the NRA. You will be what costs me easy access to my guns. When the backlash comes, and if the shootings keep up it will, you and the NRA will be swept away like old cobwebs. You are vocal, but in reality, you are a small minority.

You can either start to compromise, or in time lose the convenience of gun ownership.

[Johnny Rico]

96. You didn't answer the question meaningfully. Define "powerful" in this context, please.

Please use numbers, definitions, and accurate terminology, not emotional rhetoric.

You can either start to compromise, or in time lose the convenience of gun ownership.

What compromises in gun rights do you propose?

[A Simple Game]

112. Define powerful? Get your own dictionary!

When you look up powerful, try looking up reality, as in living in reality.

[Johnny Rico]

120. Don't be obtuse. It was asserted that some weapons are too "powerful" for the public to own.

Define the term in this context.

Really, is this so hard?

I'll help: It is currently illegal (with rare exceptions) to own any centerfire firearm with a bore greater than .5" (.50 caliber). Anything larger than this is known as a "destructive device". It's also illegal to own fully automatic weapons without a lot of paperwork.

That's the federal definition in this context. Would you change it?

[A Simple Game]

129. Obtuse? You do own a dictionary. I never said some weapons were too

powerful for the public. You should read the thread again and ask that poster what they meant.

Would I change it? Probably.

[samsingh]

97. i think the nra has demonstrated that their ideas are not good for society. after every massacre we

get the same bullshit about rules, regulations, rights. they don't care about the victims. they don't have ideas to stop the massacres. they are enjoying the money from the guns.

[A Simple Game]

127. The one I like best is to "use the existing laws". We are using them.

After almost every massacre we capture(if still alive), jail, put on trial, and send to prison every single one of the culprits. That works real fine, doesn't it?

We need to think about prevention, not prosecution.

[samsingh]

150. exactly

by harrassing weak willed politicians and scaring/fooling the public into becoming paranoid and the public's short term memory, the NRA has destroyed the fabric of what could have been a great country.

- why should people going out to a movie have to worry about some moron getting all the weapons he needs to massacre other Americans. What chance did the victims have to defend themselves, even if they were themselves armed to the teeth?

- why should a 17 year old teenager have to die because some fuckin moron picks a fight with him, shoots and kills him, and then claims self defense.

watch the gun lovers pose their stupid little questions while never addressing how to stop people from getting killed with guns.

[A Simple Game]

153. I really got a kick out of the poster that defended the

use of a 100 cartridge round clip.

The defense was that they were notoriously known to jam! So it didn't matter that the culprit had a 100 shot clip because it was likely to jam anyway.

I have yet to see any of the defenders show any sympathy for the victims. One even blamed the parents for bringing their child to the movie.

[samsingh]

154. None of these gun lovers express remorse over those who r killed

They put forth factually lame and stupid comments to defend infinite guns for everyone no matter how insane

[samsingh]

155. None of these gun lovers express remorse over those who r killed

They put forth factually lame and stupid comments to defend infinite guns for everyone no matter how insane

[soccer1]

119. It's the influence the NRA has on politicians and lawmakers that's the problem......

But, what's interesting, Ed Rendell, past governor of PA ( my place of residence) made an interesting point about the NRA's power.

He said that PA is only second to Texas with it's number of NRA members. In spite of that, Rendell, who is a strong advocate of gun control, became governor. He made the point that the NRA is not really as powerful as people would like to believe...the perception of their enormous power is an illusion.

[samsingh]

151. and the people who think their rights are defined by the number of guns they can buy

[Ruby the Liberal]

67. Why does anyone need to walk the streets with an AK47?

[Johnny Rico]

95. You didn't answer the question. Define "powerful" in this context, please.

Please use numbers and accurate terminology, not emotional rhetoric.

[ellisonz]

118. Emotion = Bad

Dispassionate brutal NRA logic - meep.

*shaking my damn head*

[Johnny Rico]

126. Keep shaking that head!

It's so cute!

[Ruby the Liberal]

125. Ok, then why does anyone need to walk the streets with an AR15?

[Johnny Rico]

130. You didn't answer the question. Define "powerful" in this context, please.

Please use numbers and accurate terminology, not emotional rhetoric.

And if it make you happy I'll play your little game by answering your out of context question first!

Ok, then why does anyone need to walk the streets with an AR15?

Civil unrest...which has happened a number of times in this country.

BTW, I haven't noticed a rash of people "walking the streets" with an AR-15 slung over their shoulder lately. Could you document such a phenomenon, or are you speaking entirely hypothetically?

[samsingh]

149. enough to kill somone innocent at a long distance with rapid fire cabability

[malaise]

18. Few commit mass murder without guns n/t

[tjwash]

16. It's everyone in the theaters fault...they should have all been packing

That's usually the stock NRA response. Then they will have a rally in the town.

[G_j]

43. yep, this never would have happened if EVERYONE

Had a gun, maybe if everyone had assault rifles we'd be safe!

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. They're hunkered down and

planning to get their excuses straight.

[rdking647]

23. you cant defend morons

but id like to point out massacres in countries where guns are illegal....

its not the availability of guns that cause this.
maybe if we took the perpertrator and slowly tortured him to death on live tv that would serve as a deterrent.
is it cruel to do that to a mass murderer? I dont think so

[otohara]

28. Update - 12 Dead - Many in Critical Condition

Effing guns and the people who buy them.

[flamingdem]

62. Let's call it. People who own these guns fetishize them, it makes them feel powerful

And this can lead to this kind of massacre from an unstable gun worshipper.

As a society we have to say ENOUGH and make it unacceptable to fetishize guns when that is really about the desire to take other citizens lives away for ones own sick psychological soul.

[otohara]

81. Make That 13 Dead Now

13 more lights go out in America.

[barbtries]

29. why would anyone support the NRA

all they're about is money. they don't give a flying fuck about freedom or security. just MONEY. guns is where they get their MONEY.

[soccer1]

123. The NRA is a powerful sales force......

they know the psychology behind selling the ideas that sell the products.

[DanTex]

31. I'll take a shot...

1) A theater full of unarmed people is just an invitation for mass murder. Nothing is more dangerous than people without guns!
2) A gun is just a tool. You can kill just as many people with chainsaws or tire irons!
3) Gun laws will never stop criminals. Even if you made it illegal to just walk into a gun store and buy 50 AK-47s in one day, a determined criminal could simply charter a plane and fly to somewhere like Ukraine or Sierra Leone and buy guns from international arms traffickers.
4) Freedom! Second Amendment! Watering the tree of liberty!
5) People die all the time! This is just 15 people. Statistically, 2.4 million of Americans die every year, and only 30K of those are killed by a gun. That means that 98.75% of Americans will never be killed by a gun!

Did I miss any?



For the record

[Swede]

88. A fine list,Dan.

[bongbong]

90. I can add another one

"Pool noodles can be as dangerous as a gun" (from a reply to me posted by a gun-religionist in another thread the other day)

[malaise]

103. Excellent list

[Hoyt]

35. NRA Board Members -- Grover Norquist, Teddy Nugent, John Bolton, Ollie North, Bob Barr, and worse

are approving bribes to their right wing cronies to ensure this blows away.

[valerief]

37. I never leave home without my pet tiger. Yeah, it might maul a few people here and there,

but at least I'm standing my ground!

[malaise]

104. My first smile of the day

[RegieRocker]

38. OK Anti Gunner

Defend the Oklahoma Bombing
Gary Ridgway (killed 71 women by strangulation)
Ted Bundy

There are many ways that humans kill
They will find more
It's not the guns, it's the people

[DanTex]

39. In other words, NRA excuse number 2:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002979722#post31

[RegieRocker]

40. Anti Gunner

bull crap

[G_j]

47. you are in good company I see

Post 35 names just a few..

[Robyn66]

50. Absolutely no gun problem in the US

April 1999 - two teenage schoolboys shot and killed 12 schoolmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.

July 1999 - a stock exchange trader in Atlanta, Georgia, killed 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.

September 1999 - a gunman opened fire at a prayer service in Fort Worth, Texas, killing six people before committing suicide.

October 2002 - a series of sniper-style shootings occurred in Washington DC, leaving 10 dead.

August 2003 - in Chicago, a laid-off worker shot and killed six of his former workmates.

November 2004 - in Birchwood, Wisconsin, a hunter killed six other hunters and wounded two others after an argument with them.

March 2005 - a man opened fire at a church service in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.

October 2006 - a truck driver killed five schoolgirls and seriously wounded six others in a school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania before taking his own life.

April 2007 - student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people and wounded 15 others at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, before shooting himself, making it the deadliest mass shooting in the United States after 2000.

August 2007 - Three Delaware State University students were shot and killed in “execution style” by a 28-year-old and two 15-year-old boys. A fourth student was shot and stabbed.

December 2007 - a 20-year-old man killed nine people and injured five others in a shopping center in Omaha, Nebraska.

December 2007 - a woman and her boyfriend shot dead six members of her family on Christmas Eve in Carnation, Washington.

February 2008 - a shooter who is still at large tied up and shot six women at a suburban clothing store in Chicago, leaving five of them dead and the remaining one injured.

February 2008 - a man opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, killing five students and wounding 16 others before laying down his weapon and surrendering.

September 2008 - a mentally ill man who was released from jail one month earlier shot eight people in Alger, Washington, leaving six of them dead and the rest two wounded.

December 2008 - a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.

March 2009 - a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

March 2009 - a heavily armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

March 2009 - six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

April 2009 - a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.

November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others.

January 2011 - a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tucson, Arizona, killing six people including a 9-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head.



Nope no problem at all, and by the way, I am a gun owner.

[RegieRocker]

54. Probably a waste of time but

In 1998 62% of murder victims were killed by guns the other 38% not by guns. Take away guns and all that will happen is an increase of murder victims killed not by guns. It's the people. I don't believe you're a gun owner.

[Robyn66]

58. Seriously?

I don't appreciate being called a liar. We have guns in our home-properly stored. My husband hunts. I grew up in a house with guns. I went target shooting when I was a kid not that its any of your business. Why don't you re-read what you just posted. if 62% WERE KILLED by guns then what does that say. Its a lot easier to defend yourself or run away from someone with a knife or something else like my father (police officer) said to me. "they can get a kill shot off before you know what hit you" At the VERY least there should be background checks in ALL states, no one should be able to walk out of a gun show with a gun. And the mentaly ill should not be able to get guns period! But the NRA is against ALL of that.

[RegieRocker]

134. Sure you do

[Robyn66]

142. LOL! (nt)

[malaise]

146. What a irrational response n/t

[sabrina 1]

160. Cowards who use guns to kill use them because they are cowards. Those who killed the 62% would not

have the guts to fight on an even playing field.

Which means you just made the argument for the saving of the lives of all those killed by cowards with guns.

With no guns to give them the courage to make their fantasies real, they would be forced to simply dream about it.

[RegieRocker]

166. What a crock full of crapola

The other weapons they used, knives, axes, chain saws were still used on unarmed people. Nuttier and nuttier.

[rdking647]

41. norway has strict gun laws. 69 dead

scotland. 17 dead
australia 35 dead

[RegieRocker]

56. In 1998

5399 people were killed (murdered) without a gun in the us. So....what is your point?

[A Simple Game]

72. Do you think most if not all Americans would be

happy with those annual gun death numbers?

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. That is annual rates

What are the rates in the US?

[MoonRiver]

44. They will say "it's not the gun it's the shooter,"

or "knives are just as deadly," yeah, right, or "banning assault weapons is going down the slippery slope toward taking my hunting rifle away," or, my personal fav, "good people need more weapons to protect themselves from all the armed bad guys out there."

What's most scary to me is how for granted we are taking these massacres. Sure, we're shocked, but it feels like something we just expect and calmly deal with when it happens. Nobody EVER mentions solutions anymore, such as, say, totally banning the sale and possession of military assault weapons.

[Tejas]

114. So your keyboard is to blame for the lousy grammar in your post?

Turn in your keyboard, for the children.

[RegieRocker]

135. ROFLMAO

[myrna minx]

46. The NRA has such a tight grip on this country.

It's disturbing that you can't even discuss guns, gun control or ammunition without a total freak out.

[Robyn66]

59. No kidding

To not even discuss protecting people over unlimited gun proliferation is sad.

[Tejas]

115. 4m NRA vs 80m gunowners, what fucking math are you using?

The big bad NRA with 4,000,000 members has WHAT power over 80,000,000 gunowners?

[malaise]

144. This thread is proof

[NRaleighLiberal]

48. Our country is in critical condition. That is all.

for the victims.

[malaise]

74. New question - how much have security costs risen

at schools, malls, etc. (and clearly they willl now rise at cinemas), so that the NRA can enrich its manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction?

[NRaleighLiberal]

76. Exactly, my friend malaise. great question. so many great questions....

so few good answers.

[malaise]

80. It' really time to calculate the costs of all this right wing gun talk

The last mass shooting was Gabby Giffords.
I'm seeing comments from all sorts of interests but nary a word from the fucking NRA.
EFUCKINGnough!!!

[theaocp]

49. If more people had been packing RPGs

they would've done ... something.

[ileus]

55. 1010110 1010110 1010110

[valerief]

60. Funny how this happened just as Mitt was being hammered in the news.

Very convenient.

[Johnny Rico]

64. Oh, please...

Surely there's a better place to post absurd conspiracy theories than GD.

[coalition_unwilling]

86. I had that same dark thought myself, for only a moment or two. So

don't let the nay-sayers on this board (one of whom already posted in response) get you down.

Put another way, they can insult you be calling you a 'conspiracy theorist' as long as you can return the favor by calling them a 'coincidence theorist.'

[valerief]

141. Ha, I like that! My rule of thumb with news coincidences is "What would the mob do?"

If the mob would do, a political group would do it.

[malaise]

105. I also had that thought particularly when I saw the neuro-science

attached to the gunman

[Chorophyll]

65. There is no defense.

This is a crowded world. When there are guns, there are shootings. We're always going to have crazy people and angry people. We DO NOT need to be armed to the teeth.

[gopiscrap]

68. I can't stand NRA members

first of all, they are always a bunch of smug bastards....then when this sort of thing happens, they deflect...the blood of these poor people are on your hands. I grew up in Europe where gun ownership was forbidden...%wise, way less death and a much more respectful society.

[jillan]

83. Your "if everyone had guns" meme will not work this time. Members of the military were there &

killed.

Guns don't kill - you are right.

People with guns do.

[Go Vols]

109. I'm not finding anything that says military members were killed or armed.

At the theater.

[Tejas]

117. So, US military brings M-16's to movie theatres?

Too funny.

[4th law of robotics]

122. Off-duty soldiers typically are disarmed

It's like the Fort Hood shooting.

Yes it was a military base. No, they were not armed at the time it occurred.

[Scurrilous]

108. The NRA Wishes Shooters A Happy Friday

<snip>

"Early this morning, the American Rifleman, the self-described "official journal of the National Rifle Association" sent out the following tweet:

Good morning, shooters. Happy Friday! Weekend plans?

— American Rifleman (@NRA_Rifleman) July 20, 2012

Somewhere in America, a real human being rolled out of bed, and decided that today would be a good day to send out a tweet like that."

http://deadspin.com/5927738/the-nra-wishes-shooters-a-happy-friday

[malaise]

116. Good effing grief!

Is that for real?

[Tejas]

113. Where were the police?

?

[4th law of robotics]

121. Simple enough:

The NRA doesn't support this kind of thing.

Why should they have to defend it now?

I don't blame the ACLU for every time someone uses their free speech to incite a riot.

[Zalatix]

132. I own guns. And fuck the NRA.

Crazy people should never own guns. They have background checks on driving cars (a driving record, medical history, etc), they should have the same for vetting people who want to own guns. I believe in the right to armed self-defense but the solution to this mass killing is not to have had everyone armed. The NRA thinks I am a Nazi for saying that. Fuck them.

There are a lot of Democrat gun owners who despise the NRA in name and in principle.

[apocalypsehow]

133. The reply will be: "Everyone in the theater should have had a heater and blasted back!"

With our "pro-gun progressives," every incident involving firearms, no matter how bloody, always leads them back to one batshit insane conclusion: more guns need to be in more hands in more places at all times.

One of the most hilarious replies I ever saw posted on DU2 was when one of the actual progressives down in the Gungeon, i.e., a poster who believes we should have a sensible gun control policy in this country, jokingly asked one of our "pro-gun progressives" if he even took one of his precious little shooting irons with him into the shower.

He answered, in all seriousness, that he kept his "Cig" (whatever that is) zipped up in one of those heavy-duty freezer bags on the top shelf of his soap holder for quick access in case someone decided to attack him while he was washing up!

He. Was. Not. Joking.

Edit: typo.

[Tejas]

136. Your alternative proposal?

Duck, grab your cell phone, dial the police...where does kiss your ass goodbye fit in?

[apocalypsehow]

137. My "alternative proposal" involves actual progressive gun control laws and regulations

being implemented that, over time, would go far to reducing the number of handguns available to the general public, and a concomitant reduction in the ability of people to get their mitts on handguns in the first place without undergoing extensive background checks, training, and mental health screening - all to be conducted prior to purchase and with the expense for same to be picked up by the person wanting to act out their Matt Dillon fantasies in real life.

Of course, that involves actual, like, liberal social policies to be enacted into law, not right-wing scum NRA guidelines to be adhered by, so I doubt many of our so-called "pro-gun progressives" would be interested.

BTW, I find, in light of the actual events in that theater, your statement to be absurd:

"Duck, grab your cell phone, dial the police...where does kiss your ass goodbye fit in?"

Did you even read the articles or watch any of the news shows regarding this shooting? Because the shooter was not stopped by some bobo pulling out his Phallic Replacement Device and plugging the shooter; he was taken into custody by the police after numerous people did just what you deride, to wit, pull out their cell phones and dial the police.

The gun mentality baffles the sensible; you literally can't make this stuff up.

Edit: typo.

[Tejas]

138. "Phallic Replacement Device" - winnar winnar winnar!!!!!!!!!

Phallic






Replacement












Device









Oh, you REALLY should stop by and bless the Gungeon with your observations, you would be an instant celebrity.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1172

Please (P L E A S E!) tell them I sent you, if you do that'll put me over the top in points and the NRA will give me a machinegun, and we all know what a machinegun will do for "inadequacy".

[apocalypsehow]

140. Hey, if the, errr, missing organ fits, I say wear it. Just don't wave it around in public. n/t.

[99Forever]

147. That's exactly correct.

Phallic






Replacement












Device


Since I was blessed by nature with adequate, functional sexual equipment, I don't require one to feel like a man.


And you?

[Tejas]

161. I have them because I don't quiver in fear at the sight of them.

But you knew that

[Zyzafyx]

139. NRA Response: Typical Liberal Alarmism

There are actually only 12 dead!

[Iggo]

159. Price of freedom, right?

[Tsiyu]

163. Just heard some wacknut NRA-type talk host on the radio

say that some of the families are going to "sue the theater" for not letting them take their concealed weapons in the theater. His rationale is that "one of those gun-totin' NRA types woulda took that Holmes out by golly, by gee!"

I'm just fucking SURE that more guns in that theater would have been so much safer for all involved, aren't we all?