Here's why I don't think Bernie will run in 2020-and a way of making sure he doesn't.

[Ken Burch]

1) The guy realizes that the voters would not elect a 79-year-old man, even a 79-year-old man in what seems to be vigorous good health, as president;

2) There's a good chance that Kamala Harris will run. Bernie isn't a masochistic idiot-he WOULD understand that the optics of running against the first plausible African-American woman presidential candidate in 2029, after running against the first plausible woman candidate in 2016, would be so horrific that they would permanently overshadow his economic justice message.

3) None of this was about ego for the guy-I don't think he even wanted to run in 2016. It was and is about wanting to get the ideas his supporters championed into the larger political discussion. He ran because the absence of Elizabeth Warren from the race meant there'd be no candidate challenging corporate power or unjust concentrations of wealth in the hands of the few in the race at all.

As I've said, I doubt he wants to run. And a lot of us would argue that the best way to make sure he doesn't is for the party to embrace the economic component and the critique of corporate power from his campaign, while continuing to center the fight to defend choice and end social oppression.

We can call it "Justice For The Many".

[JDC]

1. I gotta be honest, Bernie would smoke Kamala Harris

[juxtaposed]

3. agree.

[PragmaticLiberal]

27. I'm not so sure about that.

Both candidates start out with their bases more or less.

I just think Kamala has a greater chance of expanding her base than Bernie does.


I could be wrong though.

[comradebillyboy]

35. I think you are right.

[GeneMcM]

42. you'd be right not to be. I get the feeling people supporting Sanders/Warren are white uber left who

have never set foot out of New England.

[pangaia]

60. Your feeling is wrong.

[GeneMcM]

62. You tell me all about it.

I've heard it over and over. Here in the Midwest, they're just dying for a far left real lib,

and yet... somehow Russ Feingold lost by bigger margins than Clinton (double digit) and somehow everyone of these states (except Minnesota) has incumbent right-wing Governors who have been stomping on labor laws for over a decade.

But you tell me al about it b/c you read an unscientific poll somewhere Meanwhile I deal in the real world.

[pangaia]

65. Lol. Brava !

[Ken Burch]

74. It's not like we'd have won the Wisconsin Senate race if only we'd gone with a bland centrist.

And in case you missed it...everybody who lost a governor's race to Scott Walker WAS a bland centrist.

[woodsprite]

64. I supported Bernie, and would have supported Warren,

And I had never visited New England until this summer. I don't think I'm an outlier.

[GeneMcM]

66. so therefor that means that milions and millions of people will despite all evidence to the contrary

[Ken Burch]

73. At what point did everybody decide that POC are to the right of white leftists?

POC objected to Bernie(and had reason to do so) because they didn't trust him to speak out against racism. They haven't turned into economic royalists for God's sakes.

[PDittie]

78. Lived in Texas all my life

Been to Boston once on vacation.

You're wrong.

[fallout87]

29. yes...

he would. I think Kamala should get some more face time in the Senate, a little more exposure and then run. She's tied to California right now which doesn't bode well for the rust belt states.

[still_one]

53. First of all I do not think Bernie will run in 2020, but not because of the "age factor" as the OP

implies. I think he realizes his best chance was 2016, and that has come and gone.

I also do not understand why everyone assumes Kamala Harris is going to run. As my Junior Senator from California, I don't think she will.

[kstewart33]

2. Agree with you except the ego part.

Bernie's ego influences just about everything he does. He's easily offended and stubborn and both are related to ego. Ego was a big part of his decision to keep running and battering Clinton even when we all knew that the nomination race was over.

I think he wanted to run in 2016 and, like all politicians, he loved and loves the roar of the crowd. Nothing wrong with that.

[juxtaposed]

5. I never saw his ego jumping around as much as you just stated? He never said he will be my

Champion? Did he? Let me know if you find anything about how extrovert his huge ego was.

[Aristus]

4. He probably won't. For one thing:

He got what he wanted; Hillary Clinton is not President.

[Ken Burch]

6. He wasn't running to keep Hillary out and it's not his fault that we got Trump.

He gave her a passionate endorsement in Philly and campaigned across the country for her in the fall.
And he clearly didn't want Trump to win.

Hillary never took the Sanders movement seriously during the primaries, largely treating it as something that had no right to happen and no reason to exist. If she had accepted that most of what Bernie was talking about was valid and committed to including most of it in the fall campaign message, Bernie probably would have ended his campaign earlier.

Why would it have been asking too much to do that? Why not just admit the message was valid and should be PART of our party's message?

[silverweb]

8. Well said!

Bernie instructed all of his supporters to throw their support to Hillary after the primary -- and he did say over and over again how important it was that Democrats win the election.

He did not run to be a "spoiler," but to move Democrats back to the left, after years and years of compromise (meeting Republicans "halfway" as they moved farther right) had dragged us much, much too far to the right.

We still need Bernie. He'll never be president, but he's an extremely effective senator for progressive causes. He nurtures and speaks for our collective moral conscience, and the DNC would be wise to take heed.

[Kirk Lover]

25. That he did...he implored his supporters but the simple fact is he stayed in the race too long.

Period.

[fallout87]

30. in light

of recent events, can you really blame him?

[Kirk Lover]

34. Yes I can and I did at the time. He should of gotten out when it stopped being viable...and he

didn't he hung on and persisted and for what reason really if there was zero chance of him winning why continue because it didn't help.
I don't care what time the debates were on...let's all be real here..nobody cared about the D debate, no matter what time it was on because this Trashbag was talking about his dick size...that's what people were watching. I like Bernie but I feel he hurt the party by running...giving people hope that his platform had a snowball chance in hell. It's going to be a long long time before bernie's ideas etc will be adopted by the USA...we are nowhere near there yet and I wish people would wake up and realize this because I want to win.

[Ken Burch]

75. We're not going to get there by refusing to ever run on those ideas.

We will never get to that if we nominate only the "safe choice" candidates.

All that would have happened if Bernie had dropped out earlier was that HRC would have started attacking Trump earlier-and since none of the attacks on the guy had worked in the GOP primary and none of her attacks on him ever had any attacks on the fall, what difference would it have made if she HAD spent more time attacking Trump?

The lesson of 2016 is that attack politics can never work for us, that we need to run by leading with our proposals and our principles and by actually trying to win the argument for a change.

[RandomAccess]

39. He stayed in for technical / practical reasons

He wanted to hold onto his delegates in case Clinton got indicted or something. He held on and did someething during the convention (details fade) so that he could step in if things went awry.

Don't blame him for staying in too long. He was trying to protect the Democratic Party in the long run. His concerns might have been misplaced -- almost seem so in retrospect -- but things weren't all that cleer at the time.

[GeneMcM]

43. sorry but no

Anyone who is over 30 knows that you don't run to the left in general elections. He entered the line-up for the money and then when he became the darling of the far left looking for their latest spoiler, his ego got away from him. He took it too far nd it's not forgivable to me. You can do that maybe if you control Congress, or state legislatures, or the SCOTUS isn't in the balance. But when a Dem Presidency is your last line of defense, no excuse. He was damned sure old enough to know better. But hey, he got his adulation, and the GOP sent him plenty of those "small donations" and he's got several homes now and his wife is probably off the hook at least so long as he keeps attacking democrats and organizing spoiler efforts. Not bad for a guy who used to siphon his neighbors electricity.

[dreamland]

52. Agreed.

[pangaia]

58. +++++

[liquid diamond]

7. He can run again if he

wants to. As long as it’s not under our banner. We beat him once and will do so again.

[David__77]

9. I think there are many Democratic banners.

Sanders carries the banner for the Democratic at least sometimes. He has been selected to speak on behalf of the Democratic Senate caucus of which he's a member, for instance. There are certainly a number of sectarian Democratic banners.

[aikoaiko]

15. Who is 'we' when you write "We beat him once and will do so again"

[onetexan]

36. Those of us who don't buy into bernie's pipedream message, that's who

We don't want a man whose only a Dem when it's convenient for him.

[liquid diamond]

41. +1

[liquid diamond]

40. It's pretty obvious. Take a look at recent threads about the independent.

Your guy isn't as popular as you think.

[aikoaiko]

50. Bernie is plenty popular among Democrats. That's why I want to know who we is.

Bernie Sanders is now a part of the Democratic Leadership Team.

[Demsrule86]

45. Exactly...he is popular in some quarters...but I think less and less with Democrats based on some

unfortunate comments and endorsements.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

67. I think it'll depend on who else is running & that person's stance on issues as a populist candidate

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

10. Harris won't run in 2020

The national consensus on the death penalty will have to shift quite a bit more before she can.

[GaryCnf]

33. That consensus has already changed

Polls may not say it but the fact is that less than a handful of states are actually carrying out executions and no one is being politically punished for it.

Ms. Harris' opposition to the death penalty is a huge plus for many groups and not that big of a negative for those few Democrats who support it in the abstract.

[Demsrule86]

46. I find the death penalty an abomination...and pray it ends soon .

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

54. That is true to a point

An attorney general who will remain unidentified told me that their state presently has no ability to carry out an execution (no protocol, no equipment, no drugs and nobody currently on the corrections staff who meaningfully participated in the last execution) and nobody including the Republican governor is interested in pressing the issue.

But we need to look at it from the perspective of attack ads running in Ohio.

[GaryCnf]

77. I think that is a fair point

I am not politically involved in Ohio, but I have capital clients in Ohio and to be blunt, it is a blood bath right now.

What I think about are places like Tennessee which are chock full of mini Marsha Blackburn's and where their are some extremely loud pro death voices but where executions have been at a near standstill for a decade and no governor has run on the issue or paid a price for not killing folks.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

80. That is what pissed me off about Kaine

Kaine as Governor of Virginia executed eleven men and spared only one all the while making a martyr of himself over it in the most tacky way possible. Meanwhile Republicans across the land who present themselves as so blood thirsty they would go Jihadi John on the population of death row all by themselves come and go from office never presiding over a single execution.

[Blue_Tires]

11. He was never running in 2020

if he was, he would have stayed a registered Dem...

Don't tell me people honestly believe Bernie would be able to piss on the party from the sidelines for four solid years, change his registration to Democratic in 2020, and think that would go over just fine with everyone??

[Jim Lane]

13. He did not change his registration. He couldn't. Vermont doesn't have partisan registration. (n/t)

[Demsrule86]

47. He did go back to being an independent...you can belong to a party regardless of registration

laws.

[Jim Lane]

70. I'm so tired of this.

Before he ran for President, he was an independent who caucused with the Democrats.
As of the day he announced his candidacy, he was an independent who caucused with the Democrats.
Throughout his campaign, he was an independent who caucused with the Democrats.
Following the end of his campaign, and continuing to this day, he's been an independent who caucused with the Democrats.
In fact, throughout his tenure in the Senate, he's been an independent who caucused with the Democrats.

Anyway, now that you've gotten in today's attack against Bernie, isn't it time to post something about how everyone has to unite against Trump?

[NCTraveler]

16. I honestly believe it.

With eight or so entrants he won’t even need a majority to win. It doesn’t even have to be close to fine with everyone.

[NurseJackie]

12. Oh, good Lord!

[NastyRiffraff]

14. Yes, SOMEBODY help!

If it's a good lord, that's fine with me.

[Ken Burch]

18. What matters is making sure he doesn't run and we aren't divided.

Why is including part of what his supporters work for in our message intolerable?

[Ken Burch]

17. Good lord WHAT?

Neither of us want the guy to run. I was simply talking about a way to make sure he didn't-a way that wouldn't do any harm.

What is so terrible about acknowledging that the way to do that is for the party to admit that parts of his message are valid, naturally dovetail to our traditions, and should be part of where we go from here?

We can't stop him from running by denouncing everything the guy's about and making the party a Bernista-free zone.

[NurseJackie]

19. Nice try... but...

WRONG!

It's been tried and rejected. Move on.

Please stop rehashing the primaries.

[Ken Burch]

21. The result of the primaries doesn't mean we can't ever debate ideas again.

All that was required to prove a person wasn't refighting was to endorse and campaign for HRC.

Nobody was obligated to forever give up working for the ideas they supported.

[NurseJackie]

22. Not buying it. I'm smarter than you give me credit for.

I can see exactly what's going on. That's some awfully thin ice you're standing on... I strongly recommend that you discontinue rehashing the primary and move on. Look forward, not backward.

[Ken Burch]

24. Not buying what?

This whole thread is about not having Bernie run.

The primaries simply settled a presidential nomination.

I'm talking about nothing but the future and you have no reason to insinuate that I have any hidden agenda.

What I support is bringing the party together, bringing progressives together, by combining the best Clinton ideas, the best Sanders ideas, and the best ideas that will emerge in the future. I don't have a candidate and don't expect to have one anytime soon.

What would you need to hear to "buy it"?

[NurseJackie]

37. Asked and answered. Lather rinse repeat.

I'm smarter than you give me credit for. I'm not easily fooled by word games and hair splitting or rephrasing one question and asking it over and over again. You have my answer and it will not change from what I've told you previously.

If you have further questions, I recommend that you scroll up and re-read what I've already said.

What would you need to hear to "buy it"?

LOL! Why would you assume that I'm even interested in what you're selling? We've been through all this before. There's nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise. Give up.

And... move on. Please stop rehashing the primaries. Rehashing the "issues" of the primaries, especially the ones that have been rejected, is the same as rehashing the primaries. If you're still talking about and obsessing about "Clinton ideas" and "Sanders ideas", you're REHASHING THE PRIMARIES.

Seriously... time to move forward.

[NastyRiffraff]

20. Good grief Ken, give it a rest.

[NurseJackie]

69. If only. Wouldn't that be nice?

[Demsrule86]

48. It feels like we cave (and I don't disagree with most of his message) or else...

That is not acceptable.

[Ken Burch]

76. Not cave. Each side meets the other halfway.

Add at least a good chunk Sanders economic ideas and view of corporate power...and expect the Sanders people to join in centering the social justice agenda-an agenda they themselves didn't disagree with, while learning to listen to the people in the party who had legitimate issues with Bernie.

It's about moving from confrontation to coalition, dialog and mutual respect.

Nobody being put in their place, nobody being thrown under the bus.

Getting past 2016 and working together for the future.

Can you suggest ways I could frame these ideas that would inspire trust?

[StevieM]

23. I am pretty sure that Bernie will run again. Biden is also a possible candidate, although a little

less likely to run.

I would put a second Bernie run at 80/20 and Biden at 50/50.

I like Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington and Tom Steyer as possible candidates.

[Ken Burch]

26. There's no good reason for Bernie or Biden to run.

We need someone from a newer generation.

Elizabeth Warren would be a good consensus choice, connecting with older and younger Dems. Kamala Harris could be interesting, especially if she were open to what I'm talking about here(and she backs single-payer, so she may be). I could see Al Franken doing well.

We need someone new.

[PoliticAverse]

32. Warren is 2 years younger than Clinton. Hardly a "newer generation". n/t

[delisen]

28. I don't think todays voters will consider

his age to be a deal-killer.

However Sanders economic component and critique of corporate power is, I think, bunch of slogans.No depth; no critique.

It's the traditional pig in a poke, faith based politics.

[GulfCoast66]

38. Amen!

Railing against Millionaires and Billionaires can only take you so far. Especially when you have been in the Congress for over 25 years and no real record of working with others to achieve goals.

I will fight against him like hell in the primaries but of course will vote for him if he is the candidate. And then watch the republican machine go to work against a Socialist candidate and beat him in a landslide.

Assuming he can win re-election in Ohio, Sherrod Brown is an unbeatable Presidential Candidate and good luck with those Bernie inspired groups painting him as a centrist.

[Demsrule86]

49. I agree...and Sherrod has a shitload of Koch money coming against him.

[coolsandy]

31. Maybe it should be: "Just Us for the Many"

[Demsrule86]

44. Oh so we adopt his ideas that were not sufficient for him to win a nomination and he doesn't run...

thus potentially dividing the party and helping the Repugs...sounds more like extortion. How about no. We have a primary...Dems talk about their ideas...and the best man/woman wins...like always. We don't have one view on economics or anything really and that is what makes this a great party.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. Kamala would be smart to wait until 2024.

[lunamagica]

55. He will run. Your insistence that he won't just shows how little you know him

And when it happens, I will say "I told you so"

PS. Things that would keep him from running:

1. Jane is indicted or some other scandal.
2. A law passes where all candidates must show their income taxes.

Other than that, he will run

[ecstatic]

56. I disagree. 2016 was about ego. nt

[pangaia]

57. I will just say I agree 100% I don't think Bernie wanted to run.

It was more like, nobody else would do ut so.....

Ge just felt/feels that strongly about about what he always was fighting for.

[UT_democrat]

59. Boo hoo

Boo hi. I’d never vote for the best candidate! Just whom ever the DNC says I should. I cant think for myself!

[PDittie]

79. LOL

Welcome to DU

[chillfactor]

61. he had better NOT run again...

he screwed up the last election..he had better not try it again..I really mistrust him. He is NOT a Democrat to begin with but he sure screwed it up for our party.

[emulatorloo]

63. He's running. More photo ops and tours than time in DC.

That's his prerogative. Look for another Iowa visit soon. Another Town Hall w Chris Hayes. Very eager to speak at Women's March convention, clear up his gaffes about civil rights and equality ("idenity politics&quot . Tried to clear that up the other day but another gaffe about orderinary American vs concerns of women, minorities, and LGBT.

[woodsprite]

68. This thread is good for one thing: growing an ignore list.

This is a distraction! If we don't take back Congress, there won't be a 2020 election!

[Ken Burch]

72. I agree that we need to focus on 2018.

Getting people to stop obsessing about The Bern is part of switching the focus to 2018.

[madville]

71. 2020 will be a convoluted shit show

No way around it, if Bernie runs he easily gets the nomination with about 30% of the overall primary vote.