Im not voting for Hillary or Bernie in 2018 or 2020.

[kpete]

Last edited Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:16 AM - Edit history (1)

Can we move the fuck on? We have work to do.



?1509716455



Replies:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/2/1712158/-I-m-not-voting-for

[Not Ruth]

1. You will if they are the nominee

[Amimnoch]

54. Because imperatives work so well on Democrats? nt.

[stonecutter357]

2. K&R

[lapfog_1]

3. not in 2018

but if either decides to run again in 2020 and wins the nomination... you damn right I'm voting for them (either of them).

Right now... we must take back the house... and try to take back some state and local government positions as well.

[LiberalBrooke]

8. Yes, me too.

I will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate. All you have to do is read the platforms of the partys and choice for voting is a no brainer. Bernie got almost all of his ideas in the Democratic platform and still too many of his supporters voted for Jill.

[Lucky Luciano]

10. Bernie has had his ideas forever. nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. Where you get the idea that many of Bernie's supporters voted for Jill

eludes me.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them voted for Hillary, while some stayed home.

Those who voted for Stein were already Green Party supporters.

[mythology]

18. This. And if I were in Vermont for Senate

I doubt either will run for president in 2020, but if they do, and wins the primaries I would gladly vote for them.

[dlk]

4. Hillary's Not Running

[samnsara]

25. and bernies an independant..not a dem. i will vote for the DEM nominee

[Twisty]

51. Just cant do it hey?

[Amimnoch]

55. Agree. I will 100% a Democratic Party candidate. nt.

[leanforward]

59. Ditto

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. I've tried to

A part of moving on includes incorporating lessons from the past so as to do better in the future. Working to improve the functioning of the Democratic Party is not in itself divisive, although as with all things, people will divide over what is and is not an improvement. It seems to me that our Democratic Party sees value in learning, with the advantage of hindsight, what has not worked out as well as envisioned in the past.

This is from today's Washington Post:

"...Kleeb, who along with Weaver is a member of the Democrats’ post-primary “unity commission,” said the party had made some amends under Perez’s leadership. In his campaign to run the DNC and since, Perez has chastised Wasserman Schultz for turning the party into a vehicle for the presidential campaign.

After Brazile’s book excerpt surfaced, state chairs began calling and emailing each other about a change to the DNC’s rules and bylaws that would forbid any arrangement like the one Clinton got. Buckley and other DNC members suggested that the party should also give DNC members access to its budget, which would have made it clear much earlier how the joint fundraising agreement was affecting the flow of money.

“I will co-sponsor that amendment and vote for it,” Buckley said. “There’s so much reform that has to happen.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democrats-express-outrage-over-allegations-of-early-control-for-clinton-in-2016/2017/11/02/84e949da-c000-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.913dd8ce0547

More about Kleeb: "After the election, the effects of the Clinton fundraising effort hit some state parties hard. Jane Kleeb, who took over Nebraska’s Democratic Party in late 2016, discovered that the party had accrued $35,000 in debt for the Clinton campaign."

More about Buckley: "Ray Buckley, the chairman of New Hampshire’s Democratic Party, said that he first learned of the agreement while serving as DNC vice chair in 2016. “The day that Donna discovered this, she called me and I almost passed out,” Buckley said. “We were blatantly misled.”

I have no interest in trying to demonize either the Clinton campaign or Hillary herself. I can understand why prior arrangements evolved the way they did at the time, even if I do not approve of all the steps that were taken. Hind sight is 20/20. Foresight is a much more important quality, and the Democratic Party needs some now in moving forward. Learn from our mistakes, get our house in order.

[KPN]

21. THIS

Everyone should read this with -- like Democrats typically -- an open mind.

[bluestarone]

37. after everything we've been through

I just can't imagine not voting for whomever the Dem party chooses. Got to be out of your mind to think otherwise. Please stick together on this simple statement. DO NOT let them assholes divide us further! THE BALLS IN OUR COURT WE CAN WIN THIS IN 18 AND 20

[pangaia]

58. Another intelligent post. If everyone would use their common sense

as well as you do, we would be in much better shape.
I try to do that. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not so much.

Some things are just "complicated' and many-faceted.

If I try to say more, because of my slow and/or limited skills at explaining something, it would take me hours to compose a perfect post so as not to be misunderstood (I don't mean by you). That and my limited knowledge of political tactics, behind the scenes gobbledeegook, .....

That said, ok, I will dip a toe in the water......

Considering the topic of Brazile’s book, or mat least the excerpts I have seen, and for arguments sake lets's say she is accurate, should she have made it public now? Good question. My normal instincts would 100% say yes. The truth should be out. But then I think about "the times," and that makes me question it.

So as is so often the case with me, I am of 2 minds.

Thanks for your posts..

[rock]

6. I'm voting for the Democratic candidates

Whoever they be

[lark]

9. I may have to hold my nose,

but I'm a totally yellow dog Democrat and will never not vote or vote for the traitor party.

[rock]

11. Yep

[samnsara]

26. me too as long as they are a true dem and not someone...

...looking for a coat tail to hang on to.

[Billb93]

7. I agree

Hillary won't run and Bernie isn't a Democrat. We need new blood and ideas.

[Scoopster]

12. I'm glad to be voting for the same person I voted for in 2016.

Martin O'Malley.

[Amimnoch]

56. I'd LOVE to see Wes Clark run again.

Seriously doubt that would happen but he'd beat the shit out of Donnie, or anyone else they run.

Edit:
I just created a Draft Wes Clark for President facebook group. Hoping it'll take off.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1605332829549221/

[BigDemVoter]

13. Neither one will run in 2020. . . .

And you are 100% correct. . . .Let's move the fuck on, as we have more important things to contend with right now.

[StevieM]

33. I fully expect that Bernie will run in 2020. Joe Biden too. (eom)

[BigDemVoter]

38. I like Bernie. . . a LOT. . . .

But he'll be getting up there in years. . . Joe Biden too. . . . You really think Bernie will run again?

[StevieM]

41. I am pretty sure that Bernie will run and Biden seems likely too.

I want the next nominee to be someone like Al Gore. But Gore himself has made it clear that he is done running for office.

I may support someone like Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington or Tom Steyer. I hope that one of them runs.

[karynnj]

53. SteveM, here's something you might like

A Yale conversation between Gore and Kerry from last month. Much is on climate change, but it actually starts with Kerry referencing the Assault on Reason, leading into a discussion on our democracy. https://livestream.com/YaleSOM/kerry-gore/videos/164988087 (If nothing else, it is a fun diversion from the anger everywhere else!)

I agree Gore (and Kerry) are unlikely to run in 2020, but between them - with Jimmy Carter, you have three people, who were not part of the 2016 fight, who because they are not running could help us claim the high ground. We are fighting for our democracy, our environment (giving coal subsidies - really, Mr Trump??), and our values as people. It is interesting that all three of the these men are actually activists and are trying outside the government to get the changes needed.

We need grassroots activism - and I would bet that if we find a strong candidate - and there are many - who can fight for what has always been in our platform - (which can be summarized as helping people meet their basic needs.) - and for reforming our democracy where big money likely did more damage than the later Russian ads and fighting for the environment. (The environment is rarely that high as a voting issue - here adding it could enhance clean/dirty fresh air/stale Trump ideas.)

[StevieM]

61. I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but I wanted to reply to your thoughtful post.

Last edited Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:28 PM - Edit history (1)

A conversation between Gore and Kerry sounds like a cool idea. I look forward to watching it.

I agree that Gore and Kerry are very unlikely to run.

I like the dynamic you say Kerry referenced: the Assault on Reason. That sums up, to some extent, our problem. People are no longer reasoning in a reasonable way. That's why James Baker, during the Florida recount could say things like "they just want to count and count until they get a result they like" As if I can keep counting the fingers on my hand and get a result other than five. That's why the Swift Boat Veterans had an effect.

The problem is that every time they successfully assault our reason they put something in the bank to take it further the next time. The 2000 recount leads to the Swift Boaters which leads to so-called Kerry slur/"botched joke" before the '06 midterms which leads to Benghazi conspiracy theories which leads to the fake email scandal which leads to the so-called "rigged primary." And there are other things that can be thrown into the mix, like the Iraq War.

Every time they succeed it makes it easier to take it further the next time. I can only imagine what would have happened if the Supreme Court had followed through with their plan to strike down Obamacare in 2012. And that is what scares me most about them winning the lock her up election, or winning the first election after the Benghazi inquiry. It is dangerous for them to triumph on those terms. In some ways the rest of the GOP scares me more than Trump.

There are a lot of things that can be discussed as having lead us to this dangerous place. Some really good examples were given in an article posted here today. You should check it out. Here is the link:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41826022

I would add the fact that nobody paid any price for Iran-Contra, thereby teaching the Republicans that they can get away with anything.

[StevieM]

62. Also, just to be clear, I didn't deliberately put a smiley face after the phrase "botched joke."

I had intended to put an &quot ". An end parentheses. But DU automatically turned it into a smiley face. I edited it to make it into a "/" instead.

[secondwind]

14. Do what I have always done...... VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT.

I was a strong supporter of Bernie Sanders. However, when he lost in the primaries, I QUICKLY PIVOTED to Hillary... Do not pass GO, do not collect $200, and I did everything I could to help her get elected.

[samnsara]

27. good for you!

[Cobalt Violet]

15. Can't ignore the fact we hold no power.

We need to fix ALL the issues that keep causing us devastating losses. Their is not just one thing.

[docgee]

16. OMG, Please fuck yes!! eom

[world wide wally]

17. What we need is some new blood at the top of the ticket.

May I suggest we start with Sherod Brown or Joseph Kennedy?
It's time to leave 2016 well behind us right now.

[samnsara]

28. or swalwell...

[Ukapau]

48. Jeff Merkley from Oregon is pretty darned good!

[thesquanderer]

19. I hope Vermont residents vote for Bernie in 2018.

There are people working against him there... I saw a facebook group "NO Bernie Sanders 2018" - ostensibly Dems (at least some of them) who are against him... which probably really only helps Republicans get a better shot at his seat.

[wyldwolf]

20. and at this point, I'd hold my nose to vote for Warren.

[BannonsLiver]

23. Shes created quite a problem for herself

She’s pissed off clinton voters and the Bernie folks have always hated her.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

34. "the Bernie folks" have absolutely NOT hated her.

Are you kidding me? She is probably the second most progressive senator out there.

But whatever gets you through the day.

[BannonsLiver]

47. Really?

That's interesting because I distinctly remember Bernie fans hitting Warren over her ties to Wall Street throughout the primary in 2016.

But hey, whatever gets you through the day.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

50. You're right. That's why threads like this happen

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016105873
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251718969
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017328253
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10025469235
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028408506
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10025770638

But, hey, keep telling yourself there was hatred from the all the Sanders people toward Warren.

[samnsara]

22. BS is not a Dem and HRC is retired.

[videohead5]

24. Brazile is making stuff up

In 2015 both Hillary and Bernie signed the exact same fundraising agreement with the DNC.

[samnsara]

29. im kinda agreeing... she sure got her knickers inna bunch over something

[StevieM]

31. Agreed. But this phony "proof" is being treated by the left the same way that talk about Obama's

birth certificate was treated by the right. Like it's the gospel.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

36. Well, the big difference here

is that one was just bullshit lies and the other is coming from a person that was the HEAD OF THE DNC. Do you not see the difference?

[StevieM]

39. Nope, I don't see the difference. The other is also BS lies.

Donna simply "revealed" an agreement that was reported in the news at the time and that was also made with Bernie. It was ordinary, not extraordinary.

None of this even matters. Bernie was not confronted with a situation where every time he gained the momentum the DNC took some kind of action that stalled him. Not that there was anything they even could have done if they wanted to.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

43. She "revealed" an agreement

and talk about what she saw that meant for Sanders.

So you are telling me that the Russians could certainly rig an election but the DNC couldn't impact the primaries. NO clue how that level of cognitive dissonance can stay in one person's brain.

[StevieM]

45. She revealed nothing of substance. The DNC did nothing for HRC, nor could they have if they

wanted to.

Yes, I believe the Russians can rig and election but the DNC cannot. In any event, I blame our own FBI a lot more than the Russians.

[Ukapau]

49. I sure blame Wasserman-Schultz for, among other things, refusing to hold more debates,

refusing to hold earlier debates (and so allowing the Republicans to define the Democratic party for several of the most important months in the election cycle), refusing to allow two or more Democratic candidates to debate each other, etc.

That was BS at the start and I was furious at her edicts.

More exposure and earlier exposure could well have made the difference.

[LittleGirl]

30. I want to know

WHO is the leader of the party? Just WHO?

[kpete]

32. WE ARE.

[LittleGirl]

35. YES! yes, we are! :-)

[Cryptoad]

40. Russians stirring the ole Shitpot!,,,,,

[bluestarone]

44. yep

that's it

[MojoWrkn]

42. Nor will I! I'm an independent with dem leanings but

I've had enough of HRC and too much of Bernie!

[ananda]

46. I like Warren and Gillibrand.

nt

[Ukapau]

52. Both of them are great and strong candidates!

[leanforward]

57. How about KHarris (53), or JKander (36)

or KGillibrand (50). Each one has a little youth left in them. I'm an old white guy, and I'm sick and tired of old white guys espousing hate, bigotry, and slurs.

Lets worry about the deficit. What are we leaving for the children?

As for HClinton and CShurmer, they were there at ground zero. You have to have been in the center of the maelstrom, whereas others have problems with a hemorrhoids.

For some more history on the russians/guy in the white house, try Bill Moyers time line.

Therefore, we have in the white house a pRezident russian agent. Follow the business model as developed by the pRezident.