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TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:21 AM Nov 2017

Reality Check: A Muslim Killed 8 People With A Truck One Day Ago. One Month Ago...

One day ago, a mental case who happened to be a Muslim killed eight people with a truck. It was deemed an act of (international) terrorism, and we immediately (and automatically) resumed talking about turning the whole immigration system upside down, and censoring the internet to prevent such tragedies from happening again.


Just one month ago, a mental case who was not a Muslim killed 60 people and wounded 550 in Los Vegas. It was deemed an issue of (domestic) Constitutional rights, and we immediately decided that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING should be done to prevent such tragedies from happening again. (Even after BOTH PARTIES agreed that, at the very least, devices like bump fire stocks, which convert semi-automatic rifles into full fledged machine guns should be illegal....nothing has been, or will be done. That was the lowest of the low hanging fruit, and it's apparently off limits.)


Forgive me...but this political system is totally f--ked.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Reality Check: A Muslim Killed 8 People With A Truck One Day Ago. One Month Ago... (Original Post) TrollBuster9090 Nov 2017 OP
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2017 #1
Welcome to DU Jmhall2001 Lochloosa Nov 2017 #2
Good luck with that. Never happen. 300 million guns; they won't be taken. 7962 Nov 2017 #4
Grandfather the legal existing ones in. mobeau69 Nov 2017 #6
Most aren't in anyones database to BE grandfathered in. 7962 Nov 2017 #23
More bumper stickers. LanternWaste Nov 2017 #11
Compared to nearly every other country, the US is luvtheGWN Nov 2017 #13
But not so many HANDGUNS, which is the biggest problem here. 7962 Nov 2017 #22
I highly doubt that. better Nov 2017 #34
Maybe so. I'd like to know the breakdown. 7962 Nov 2017 #36
"Politics is the art of the possible" I can't see that happening. In fact, going for too much TrollBuster9090 Nov 2017 #5
It has often been said sarisataka Nov 2017 #12
I know right Calculating Nov 2017 #19
Yes! yet I've already seen stories "why 10 guns if there was only ONE shooter?" 7962 Nov 2017 #24
This is exactly the problem in the US, we have become numb to gun violence groundloop Nov 2017 #3
It was incredible. The discussion about what happened in Los Vegas literally only lasted until TrollBuster9090 Nov 2017 #7
That, I think, is strongly related to how we define "assault weapon". better Nov 2017 #35
They want to make it harder to rent a truck, but not to get a gun? bigbrother05 Nov 2017 #8
Thanks to Scalia DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 2017 #15
When was militia membership a prerequisite for the private ownership of firearms by free citizens? Marengo Nov 2017 #25
The guy was a professional driver who had passed both Ubers and NYCs TLC background check Not Ruth Nov 2017 #9
Uber's background check is trivial. n/t FSogol Nov 2017 #26
The NRA is fine with banning the 2nd amendment rights of dark skinned people IronLionZion Nov 2017 #10
And they've also said we shouldn't politicize tragedy. Initech Nov 2017 #17
The two incidents sarisataka Nov 2017 #14
I believe that in both cases, they are labeled as lone actors Not Ruth Nov 2017 #33
Now is not the time to safeinOhio Nov 2017 #16
Everything is our fault. Nothing is ever their fault. Initech Nov 2017 #18
"spotted tail" heaven05 Nov 2017 #20
I so rec this is ain't even funny. n/t SpankMe Nov 2017 #21
Remember how the Constitution is not treestar Nov 2017 #27
Call it: Domestic Terrorism cp Nov 2017 #28
I'm just wondering MichMary Nov 2017 #29
Didnt Paddock shoot himself in the brain? Not Ruth Nov 2017 #31
Link MichMary Nov 2017 #32
Hope you don't mind but I just tweeted this section from your post underthematrix Nov 2017 #30
yeh but now we're VEGAS STRONG!!!!!! BamaRefugee Nov 2017 #37

Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
4. Good luck with that. Never happen. 300 million guns; they won't be taken.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:40 AM
Nov 2017

Other countries aren't a good comparison; they never had that many guns to begin with. Especially Japan. Much the same in Europe.
The cats out of the bag; the guns are HERE and people aren't going to give them up. And criminals certainly wouldn't give theirs up.
The only thing is to make the punishment SO severe that it makes people think twice. I know of a man who had two felony (non violent) convictions. He wouldn't even stay in a house that had a gun because he was afraid of that 3rd strike. Well, people need to be afraid of the FIRST strike when it comes to guns

mobeau69

(11,145 posts)
6. Grandfather the legal existing ones in.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:48 AM
Nov 2017

Ok to keep them in a home but not out in public including public and private transportation. If you want to transfer one to another location you need to secure a temporary transport permit.

If there's a will there's a way.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
23. Most aren't in anyones database to BE grandfathered in.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 10:56 AM
Nov 2017

My last handgun was bought from a friend, nobody knows I've got it. Most of the ones out there are similar.
Sure, we could start doing that NOW with new weapons purchased, but it would take 100 years to make a big difference.
By then we'll probably have "better" ways to kill each other. Guns like AR's are a little different; most of them probably ARE in a database somewhere.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
11. More bumper stickers.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:14 AM
Nov 2017

"The only thing is to make the punishment SO severe..."

More bumper stickers. Nothing else.

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
13. Compared to nearly every other country, the US is
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:17 AM
Nov 2017

in its toddler stage (and Canada is just learning to stand up by/for itself). There is no point to any comparison. European countries (whose names and boundaries have changed many times) fought each other on a continuing basis, up until (and including) the 20th century. Every citizen who could afford it had weapons to protect himself and his family and property. But Europeans finally grew up (or as some would say, they learned how to fight really, REALLY BIG battles -- WWI being a good example).

Whenever someone asks me why the US is such a gun culture, I tell them to read American history, and then to study up on the ubiquity of guns in movies and television. When I was a teenager, westerns were THE big thing on TV. You couldn't get away from them. They were inherently American, so much so that when Sergio Leone started making films, they were dubbed spaghetti westerns -- made in Italy but reflecting western gun culture.

I don't see a future without guns south of my border. It's tough enough trying to keep them controlled up here in the GWN.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
22. But not so many HANDGUNS, which is the biggest problem here.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 10:52 AM
Nov 2017

Those countries had many rifles and the like. Handguns never proliferated because they were controlled from the start. I'm sure the majority of guns here in the US would be handguns.

better

(884 posts)
34. I highly doubt that.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:15 PM
Nov 2017

Most gun nuts that I know (and I know quite a few) have far more rifles than handguns, which makes complete sense if you understand firearms and their uses. Handguns are generally a weapon of last resort, and are near universally employed against humans, so there's not very much cause to have multiple varieties of handgun, except to a collector.

Rifles, on the other hand, are employed against a very wide variety of targets, and naturally, a rifle well suited to hunting bears or mountain lions, for example, is probably not going to be very suitable for hunting rats or other small pests. There are LOTS of gun owners who, like me, have owned numerous long guns, but have never owned a handgun, simply because they are not very suitable to the things for which we actually use firearms.

You are most certainly correct to identify the unique threat posed by handguns, and I'd agree with you whole-heartedly on them being more strongly regulated, but I think your assessment that the majority of firearms in the US are handguns is badly mistaken.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
36. Maybe so. I'd like to know the breakdown.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 01:33 PM
Nov 2017

Haven't been able to find anything showing an estimate of whats out there

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
5. "Politics is the art of the possible" I can't see that happening. In fact, going for too much
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:42 AM
Nov 2017

...going for too much common sense over a short period of time would kill the whole thing.

We need a Grover Norquist style "starve the beast" strategy for this. Norquist hates government, and figured the best way to destroy it was to starve it by cutting its funding. Passing laws that repeal government power are high profile, and would face resistance. Instead, starving it for funds to the point where no government agency can actually USE or ENFORCE its power has accomplished the same thing while side stepping the political fight.

We need to find the 'pressure points' for gun safety issues. For example, Congress has passed law making it impossible for people to sue gun manufacturers for injuries sustained from their products. That went a long ways towards making the gun industry untouchable and immortal. Getting that reversed might be one place to start.

Another would be to go after ammunition. Stricter regulations on selling ammunition to people might be a place to start. Putting serial numbers on the bullet casings, so that you can trace who bought the ammunition would be a great way to cut down on gang-banger crime. (Gang and drug crime being a much bigger problem than sporadic mass shootings...)

sarisataka

(18,663 posts)
12. It has often been said
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:14 AM
Nov 2017

That no one wants to ban all guns. Further, than is an NRA lie used to spread fear and sell more guns.

Calculating

(2,955 posts)
19. I know right
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:36 AM
Nov 2017

"Ban all guns" posts literally give ammo to the 2A supporters who point at it and say "See, I told ya those darn liberals wanna take away our guns". Then they go and send more money to the NRA and buy another gun. If we want to make some 'sensible' progress, then we need to stop with the outlandish "Ban all guns" talk.

groundloop

(11,519 posts)
3. This is exactly the problem in the US, we have become numb to gun violence
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:37 AM
Nov 2017

I just made a post a few days ago with a partial list of mass shootings over the last 10 years, sadly it was a VERY long list. NOTHING has been done, and without a major shift in our thinking nothing will be done. Hell, if the murder of young school children doesn't make something happen I don't believe anything will.

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
7. It was incredible. The discussion about what happened in Los Vegas literally only lasted until
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:52 AM
Nov 2017

...literally lasted until Trump's next TWEET came out, and we were on to another topic. 60 people killed and 550 wounded in ten minutes, because a mental case was able to buy 70 semi automatic assault rifles and a dozen devices used to convert them to fully automatic so easily. He wouldn't have been allowed to buy 70 bottles of cough syrup without raising regulatory red flags. But 70 assault rifles goes un-noticed.

And yes, Sandy Hook set the bar for sensitivity SO LOW, that NOTHING will now cause outrage. We'll always be able to say "well, we've seen worse."

better

(884 posts)
35. That, I think, is strongly related to how we define "assault weapon".
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:35 PM
Nov 2017

One of the things by which I was heartened in the aftermath of the Las Vegas shooting, was that instead of a renewed push to pass the Assault Weapons Ban in its current form, we instead saw a more narrow push to ban bump stocks, which is in my opinion, the much wiser course of action.

As someone else noted here, we strengthen the NRA when we overreach with gun control laws. The current definition of what constitutes an assault weapon is perhaps the single most cogent example of that within my lifetime, because in an effort to classify this as an assault weapon:



They also classified this as one:



Now to understand that in proper context, it should be noted that those are actually the same rifle, a Ruger 10/22, and the reason that both are classified as assault weapons, under both the most recently proposed version of the federal assault weapons ban and under current NY state law, is that both of them are semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine, and both have a hole in the stock for your thumb.

We could get a great deal more support in banning assault weapons if we would simply limit regulation to the aspects of a firearm that actually do have some bearing upon how dangerous the weapon is, like a bump fire stock which increases the rate of fire, or high-capacity magazines without which a high rate of fire is actually a disadvantage.

But when we ban rifles on account of things like there being a hole for your thumb to go through, we hand our opponents an easy victory, because they can say we're banning stupid shit, and be correct.

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
8. They want to make it harder to rent a truck, but not to get a gun?
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:06 AM
Nov 2017

Renting vehicles depends on proving your right/ability to operate one and further prove the ability to pay fees and insurance should you misuse the vehicle.

2A backers say they can't be licensed like a drive because of the 2A, nice circular argument even though "well regulated militia" would seem to exclude the general public.

Am sure we'll hear the argument that tightening vehicle rentals won't prevent lawful use, why not the same for guns?

DetroitLegalBeagle

(1,924 posts)
15. Thanks to Scalia
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:26 AM
Nov 2017

and his DC vs Heller decision, the "well regulated militia" part of the amendment may as well legally no longer exist. That decision effectively severed the militia clause from the amendment.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
9. The guy was a professional driver who had passed both Ubers and NYCs TLC background check
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:10 AM
Nov 2017

Neither of which is trivial. There was absolutely no way to stop him from what did.

IronLionZion

(45,454 posts)
10. The NRA is fine with banning the 2nd amendment rights of dark skinned people
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:13 AM
Nov 2017

they also did jack shit when a legal law abiding gun owner got shot dead in front of his child for being black.

One would think those 600 country music fans might get some sympathy, but even then the RW assholes claimed bullets into your flesh by a crazy person is the price we pay for freedom. Since freedom isn't free, it's paid for by being shot by lunatics.

Oh and immigration/travel ban and open racism was the immediate reaction to the Las Vegas shooting before it was revealed how white he was. Then they started spewing nonsense about how he wore pussy hats in womens marches and his girlfriend's ex-husband shared some anti-Trump memes on social media as proof that liberals are the real problem here, not guns.

Initech

(100,080 posts)
17. And they've also said we shouldn't politicize tragedy.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:31 AM
Nov 2017

Remember that every time there's a mass shooting. We can't politicize it.

While they go and harass and threaten death to the victims, and accuse them of being paid actors, and make sure the government can't pass any meaningful legislation.

This happens and the gov immediately politicizes this tragedy and we need extreme vetting now!!!!!

sarisataka

(18,663 posts)
14. The two incidents
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:24 AM
Nov 2017

Do provide some interesting insights.

One focuses entirely on the hardware used in the atrocity. It also extends at least partial blame to an entire class of people.

The other, after an initial burst of discussion about Hardware due to incorrect early reporting, changed to skin color and religion. In this case however the discussion focused on how the individual is not representative of any broader group, except possibly one he joined voluntarily.

I believe ultimately in both cases action will result to approximately 0.

In the first case, yes there is very low hanging fruit. A simple addition of the words "or external part" to current law would make a Major Impact on available attachments to alter semi-auto firearms. Unfortunately given the current makeup of Washington even this trivial change to the law is not going to pass.

In this most recent atrocity, it is still too early to suggest any reasonable changes that may have helped prevent the criminal actions. There are some knee-jerk reactions out there but none of them would help; they're just capitalizing on a tragedy to try to advance an agenda.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
33. I believe that in both cases, they are labeled as lone actors
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:40 AM
Nov 2017

The investigation will focus on how lone actors become lone actors vs disgruntled people who live normal lives like a billion others. Was it social media or or something more sinister that influenced them and pushed them over the edge? Were they mentally ill? Why wasn’t the mental illness caught in time to help them?

Note that in both cases, they chose careers without coworkers. Gambler and driver.

Maybe that is the tell. Maybe that indicates a new form of mental illness,

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
20. "spotted tail"
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 10:13 AM
Nov 2017

"this war did not spring up on our land, this war was brought upon us by the children of the Great Father, who came to take our land without a price, and who, in our land, do a great many evil things...This war has come from robbery-from the stealing of our land".

This from a Native-american during the so-called 'Indian Wars' starting with the Spanish in 1540-41 along the Rio Grande River in now New Mexico until 1898 in the last acknowledged "indian war" in Minnesota.

Throw the american institution of slavery into the mix, that's terrorism to me.

recently we had 58 killed, 500+ wounded during another terrorist attack, but naw he was white, from BUNDYland, he wasn't a terrorist, was he....

But I guess the need to dominate will never go away as an active part of human psyche...been here since Cain allegedly killed Abel...right?????

Oh and by the way...bad times in ameriKKKa.....hopefully Mueller can put the boy-potius to ground...face first and pence somehow gets dragged into this madness with firm charges against him.....and they all have to

treestar

(82,383 posts)
27. Remember how the Constitution is not
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:11 AM
Nov 2017

a suicide pact and the great rush to give up rights in the name of security?

Yet it does not apply to the 2nd Amd. and we can't have gun control. Can't give up anything on those rights. But the others, OK.

cp

(6,636 posts)
28. Call it: Domestic Terrorism
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:15 AM
Nov 2017

Las Vegas. Charlottesvile. Charleston. Orlando. Newtown. ad infinitum
Not "lone wolf." Domestic Terrorism

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
29. I'm just wondering
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:20 AM
Nov 2017

how you know that either of them was/is a "mental case." Stephen Paddock's brain is being microscopically examined to see if there was anything haywire. Unfortunately, we can't examine this terrorist's brain, because he isn't dead. Does he have a history of mental illness? Was he hearing voices? Don't know yet. IMHO, it's way too early to declare either of them a "mental case."

Maybe just "bad guys?"

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
32. Link
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:40 AM
Nov 2017
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-paddock-doctors-examine-brain-las-vegas-shooting/

Scientists are preparing to do a microscopic study of the Las Vegas gunman's brain, but whatever they find, if anything, likely won't be what led him to kill 58 people in the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history, experts said.

Stephen Paddock's brain is being sent to Stanford University for a months-long examination after a visual inspection during an autopsy found no abnormalities, Las Vegas authorities said.

Doctors will perform multiple forensic analyses, including an exam of the 64-year-old's brain tissue to find any possible neurological problems.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
30. Hope you don't mind but I just tweeted this section from your post
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:29 AM
Nov 2017

Just one month ago, a mental case who was not a Muslim killed 60 people and wounded 550 in Los Vegas.

BamaRefugee

(3,483 posts)
37. yeh but now we're VEGAS STRONG!!!!!!
Thu Nov 2, 2017, 05:41 AM
Nov 2017

Can anybody explain to me wtf VEGAS STRONG even means?
Does it mean YOU BETTER KILL WAY MORE THAN 60 PEOPLE IF YOU WANT TO AFFECT US?
It's stupid imo, because trust me, there are LOTS of people out there who would like to break 60 and get in the record books.
SAD!!!

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