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Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:01 AM Nov 2017

MG. I'm in awe of Mueller's investigation team.

I worked in the legal field for decades. I have an idea (just an idea) of the volume of papers, the number of interviews, the amount of analysis of computers and documents, that just three indictments took. They probably drafted tons of documents themselves, timelines, complex spreadsheets following the money (all referenced to banks and properties and accounts).

Add to all that the conclusions they had to draw, the proof they had to line up to get an indictment. Then they had to draft and re-draft these critical indictments, and get them as close to perfect as possible. There are no re-dos.

I'm in awe of the immense task that faced this team in a few short months, and that they got these three critical players indicted (esp. Pappadopoulos).

I wouldn't want Mueller and his team having me in their sights. For all his blustering and accusations and hostility, I can't imagine that Trump isn't losing sleep over this. The hubris of his team lying to the FBI and then to the Special Counsel? Maybe they didn't get how serious this investigation is. But indictments for lying to them ought to get the message across.

72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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MG. I'm in awe of Mueller's investigation team. (Original Post) Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 OP
I hope they are keeping a tally of the resources expended on this. lpbk2713 Nov 2017 #1
Being a Bigly Billionaire, republican Comrade Casino will no doubt... Achilleaze Nov 2017 #15
Great point. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #16
Money laundering leads to asset seizure Skraxx Nov 2017 #32
When there were threats that the R Congress Ilsa Nov 2017 #35
I want to see 100% asset forfeiture HAB911 Nov 2017 #42
This is my greatest wish, as well. Mad-in-Mo Nov 2017 #62
Master Class in lawyering MaryMagdaline Nov 2017 #2
I'm so used to Repubs failing us, that I keep pinching myself that this one is doing his job. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #17
Repugs doing the right thing is a miracle. That is not their MO. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #34
And the FBI needs to make things right after their part in throwing the election. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #33
Trump and those around him are a target rich environment. wasupaloopa Nov 2017 #3
It may have been like a kid on Christmas morning...which charge do we go after FIRST? nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #18
"Maybe they didn't get how serious this investigation is." Beartracks Nov 2017 #4
Definitely this. Blue_Roses Nov 2017 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #8
++++ Agree iluvtennis Nov 2017 #9
+1 +1 +1. Never said better. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #48
Spot on. And sad. Beartracks Nov 2017 #67
The kids weren't even registered to vote. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #19
Why, voting is for people who can't afford a Senator! Beartracks Nov 2017 #68
LOL! nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #70
Bingo. You nailed it. The only world they know is the crooked world of NYC real estate. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #36
They're like the mob, wanting to run the police department... Beartracks Nov 2017 #66
Trump Al Capone, Mueller Eliot Ness nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #69
I just hope Trump & Co. get pinned with their REAL crimes... Beartracks Nov 2017 #71
Yep, we want the real deal, not technicalities. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #72
Perhaps now they are learning what government does. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #65
Me too. Blue_Roses Nov 2017 #5
+1. :) nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #20
WaPo made a good point... KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2017 #7
Bottom line is tRump is a sleezebag who has cut dirty deals Grammy23 Nov 2017 #10
Grammy, thanks for your excellent review. KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2017 #13
I agree with Grammy regarding the Trump issue, but with you for the deeper wider issues. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #39
Thanks, Irish. KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2017 #41
I keep having deja vu this week, remembering 1974 Nixon headlines. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #43
This. So well put. Exactly my thoughts. Historic caught my attention. It is...historic. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #49
A good contrast. I hadn't thought about it that way. It's true. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #21
Did fired AGs and state attorneys help? Sancho Nov 2017 #11
Me, too. What a disappointment if the one thing the Trump team did right... Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #22
Mueller may eventually uncover money laundering by tRump... Sancho Nov 2017 #25
Kushner hasn't been showing himself lately. Or "the boys." Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #26
There has been some speculation that his avoidance of email might help him...NOT CincyDem Nov 2017 #55
I didn't know DJT didn't use email AT ALL. Is that true? Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #56
I thought that came up in the Trump University case ??? CincyDem Nov 2017 #58
if Mueller gets to interview Trump he's dead in the water... loveandlight Nov 2017 #57
I envision that interview like a scene from Ray Donovon... CincyDem Nov 2017 #59
I think a lot of people lined up to help. Trump has made enemies. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #37
You can say that, again. He recklessly made enemies unnecessarily. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #50
Mueller's hot line must have been ringing off the hook with dirt on Trump. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #64
Yep! Lucinda Nov 2017 #12
+1. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #23
Yeah. nocalflea Nov 2017 #14
Yeah. I didn't understand the importance of it until it was 'splained to me. Smart. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #24
Walk softly but with a big stck. Vs Hornedfrog1985 Nov 2017 #27
Oh yes. Turbineguy Nov 2017 #28
Manafort investigation began long ago Cicada Nov 2017 #29
Oh I know the Manafort investigation began a year before. But I know what it is to take something... Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #51
Their rule: if you dont come in Saturday dont even bother coming in Sunday Cicada Nov 2017 #60
I kept trying to explain this to people who were comparing nothing was happening Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #30
Do you think Manafort will get life in prison? nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #31
He is 68. Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #44
Wow, good. I was afraid they would just give him a slap on the wrist. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #45
I cant see it Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #46
Thanks, best news I have heard all day. Hope it doesn't stop with Manafort. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #47
I read that Manafort is looking at 15 years in prison. So he'd die in prison. He could make a deal. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #53
I was surprised. I didn't think Mueller would be ready until next year, or maybe by Christmas. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #52
Better yet is how he weaponized Manfort's lawyer against him. Historic NY Nov 2017 #38
Very complex case. kentuck Nov 2017 #40
Mueller has earned a place in history. There will never be a reference to Trump's reign of terror... Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #54
Recommended! H2O Man Nov 2017 #61
+1. The Irish DO have a history of working in law enforcement, don't they? nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #63

lpbk2713

(42,759 posts)
1. I hope they are keeping a tally of the resources expended on this.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:13 AM
Nov 2017



So that when all is said and done the Justice Dept can send Trump a nice big fat juicy bill.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
15. Being a Bigly Billionaire, republican Comrade Casino will no doubt...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:07 AM
Nov 2017

...regard the bill as mere pocket change.

Yet as always he will dodge responsibility and insist that someone else pay for the huge stinking, criminal, treasonous mess he and his republican cronies created.

* republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
35. When there were threats that the R Congress
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:11 AM
Nov 2017

might try to stop the financing of the investigation, someone commented that the team, having seen what they've seen now, would probably work for free.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
3. Trump and those around him are a target rich environment.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:14 AM
Nov 2017

It isn't if they commit crimes it is that they commit crimes.

Beartracks

(12,816 posts)
4. "Maybe they didn't get how serious this investigation is."
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:22 AM
Nov 2017

I don't think they "get" anything about government protocols, priorities, and processes. They don't give two shits about public service, and they all hate government and therefore never really have understood why it's there, and what it does, in a democracy.

==================

Response to Beartracks (Reply #4)

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
36. Bingo. You nailed it. The only world they know is the crooked world of NYC real estate.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:12 AM
Nov 2017

The government has always been their enemy, something to work around, or to cheat by using loopholes.

Beartracks

(12,816 posts)
66. They're like the mob, wanting to run the police department...
Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:50 PM
Nov 2017

... but then dismantling it as unnecessary.

=============

Beartracks

(12,816 posts)
71. I just hope Trump & Co. get pinned with their REAL crimes...
Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:42 PM
Nov 2017

... and not just lesser charges.

===========

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,492 posts)
7. WaPo made a good point...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 01:44 AM
Nov 2017

(snip)
Russia probe marked by contrasting styles of Trump and Mueller

The differences in approach and disposition of the two men at the heart of the Russia probe could hardly be more pronounced: a combative president who wants to counterattack in both public and private, and the methodical special counsel and former FBI director who has not uttered a single word in public about the investigation.

See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russia-probe-marked-by-contrasting-styles-of-trump-and-mueller/2017/10/31/cc72fdb6-be6e-11e7-8444-a0d4f04b89eb_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpmueller-945pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.28b29dbdc20f

-------------------
Professionalism all the way!


Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
10. Bottom line is tRump is a sleezebag who has cut dirty deals
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 02:33 AM
Nov 2017

and cheated his whole life and managed to largely get away with those things. Pay a fine here and there, but never have to face serious punishment for his misdeeds/crimes. He bought his way out of the consequences of his behavior. He took that attitude to DC with him, assuming he could lie, cheat and disrespect the Constitution to the point it is meaningless to him. He acts as if he is above the law and expected to be able to do whatever he wanted, including treasonous actions in order to get what he wanted. Now he is discovering that not only is he facing serious charges for his deeds, but thanks to our laws and the people upholding them, he is could very well end up in prison along with the people he pulled into his schemes.

Mueller, on the other hand has dedicated his life to working to uphold the law. He has been dogged in finding out the details of this massive fraud pulled on the people of the U.S. With the tenacity of a bull dog, he has put together a team of experts and professionals who are cut from the same cloth he is. Together they are building all the cases needed to solve the crimes and rid the country of this dishonest bunch of criminals who illegally got installed in our highest elected offices.

Mueller has been given a task that, if it all comes together successfully, may very well be one of the most historic events in our history as a country. tRump and the gang of thugs and thieves thought they could waltz into Washington and rob the treasury and no one could or would stop them. But they underestimated the way our laws work and the people dedicated to upholding our Constitution. tRump let his narcissism overrule what common sense would tell you not to do. He has made one mistake after another with his flawed thinking on how our country works.

For months I have worried that the country and the way it is governed was over as we know it. It sickened me to think tRump might get away with the crime of the ages. Since hearing about Mueller’s work and seeing how things are panning out, even at this early stage of things,
I am feeling more optimistic than I have since last November. Maybe, at last, we will start to see things swing back to a more normal state and the guilty people end up behind bars. Let us dare to hope....

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,492 posts)
13. Grammy, thanks for your excellent review.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:46 AM
Nov 2017

I think you're right that many in this administration are blindly power hungry, bigoted and elitist. You might say that they have been waiting in the wings for quite a while with their ideological guns loaded. Haven't read many of their biographies but from their behavior, I'm not convinced that many of them have been exposed to everyday life in America at all and especially as a common working person - particularly with economic struggles like many of us have experienced.

I appreciate your positive stance, it is uplifting. I'm not quite there yet, for four primary reasons:

1. Very few from the elite 1% class (who made their money from us) have spoken up as resistive to tRump and his crew and their misdeeds. Many continue to pour millions into the coffers of ALEX and the many right-wing think tanks, media and political campaigns. That's a tremendous headwind against us.
2. Many influential people suffering from the hard right-wing mindset disease are in very powerful positions, either in corporate America, in control of powerful media outlets, or as our politicians. Many of those politicians were outright bought and paid for.
3. For those working class Americans infected with that same mental disease, I see little hope of them changing. I do feel that if enough of them suffer the hard realities of Republican policy being shoved on us now, maybe 10 or 15% might swing our way if the message is clear.
4. Republicans are trying their best to enter us into an international race to the bottom of economic existence by lowering taxes, reducing government (our common good) to the bare bones, and possibly starting trade wars. This process could lead us into a downward spiral of wage depression, price inflation and a slave labor/renter's economy. This is however, utopia for the wealthy.

Much of my negativity comes from not being able to see ways to reverse any of those four dilemmas. It could be done, but I don't believe Americans have the will.

I do , like you, feel a tad of optimism compared to the summer, and thanks for allowing me to vent!


Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
39. I agree with Grammy regarding the Trump issue, but with you for the deeper wider issues.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:19 AM
Nov 2017

Both of you wrote excellent summaries.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,492 posts)
41. Thanks, Irish.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:25 AM
Nov 2017

Sometimes I just need to write out some of my frustrations to maintain a little sanity. As you probably know, much of this has been building up since Nixon's days (within my recollection) and many of us have been hopelessly watching it all go down.

We're trying to stay positive, one day at a time!

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
43. I keep having deja vu this week, remembering 1974 Nixon headlines.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:34 AM
Nov 2017

It feels the same to me now as it did back then.

And yes, American politics are heart breaking in general. The corruption and greed are so sad to watch, and the damage done to the American people. We continue our slide to third world country status. We are ruled by oligarchy who get more wealthy at our expense.

I guess we can take some solace that Mueller has gotten this far. But it is sad that things had to get so egregious for any action to take place. If Trump had been more like Junior Bush, he would have gotten away with everything.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
21. A good contrast. I hadn't thought about it that way. It's true.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:24 AM
Nov 2017

When you're talking and calling people names and insulting people, you aren't working or making anything better.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
11. Did fired AGs and state attorneys help?
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:29 AM
Nov 2017

Mueller may have a bunch a "volunteers" and ready made evidence piling in as this case expands. I hope the trail of crumbs leads all the way to the orange blob...

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
22. Me, too. What a disappointment if the one thing the Trump team did right...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:27 AM
Nov 2017

was shield Trump from exposure to the Russian collusion in an excellent way. Of course, the fact that they shielded him is proof of knowledge that what they were doing was wrong.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
25. Mueller may eventually uncover money laundering by tRump...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:29 AM
Nov 2017

even if "collusion" is never proven.

I'd bet that Jared is next though.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
26. Kushner hasn't been showing himself lately. Or "the boys."
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 06:32 AM
Nov 2017

Not that he has ever been in front of the cameras much. But particularly now. Not even a glancing photo.

CincyDem

(6,363 posts)
55. There has been some speculation that his avoidance of email might help him...NOT
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:25 AM
Nov 2017


A story that has been floating around for years about DJT is that he doesn't use email...for anything...nada...zip. The reason is that nothing can be digitally tracked back to him. He's not going to have his fantasy of HRC's email issues land on his desk.

OK - but remember. Guys like Mueller have been putting guys like Trump in jail long before email. Maybe it helps but it's not the difference between going down vs. walking away scott free.


Even if they shielded Trump from exposure better than anything else they've done - I'm a gonna guess it ain't gonna be enough to shield him from Mueller.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
56. I didn't know DJT didn't use email AT ALL. Is that true?
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:30 AM
Nov 2017

It would be helpful if he had been forwarded emails from "the boys" and others, showing DJT had knowledge of certain things.

Since Trump is into electronic communication, it's odd that he doesn't use email.

His phone. I wonder if "the boys" and others ever texted him.

CincyDem

(6,363 posts)
58. I thought that came up in the Trump University case ???
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:40 AM
Nov 2017


IIRC, there is also some question if he uses voice mail...like to the point of not even leaving a "call me" message on an answering machine. Supposedly it goes back to Roy Cohn training around leaving a trail.

It seems hard to believe and I'm open to hearing that it's an urban myth. I just remember when I first saw it all I could think was "classic play for a sleazy MF like him".

loveandlight

(207 posts)
57. if Mueller gets to interview Trump he's dead in the water...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:37 AM
Nov 2017

Trump lies, it's his nature. So if he ends up lying in his testimony, doesn't matter what else he does, that's it. And we know he can't help himself. When Mueller asks something where he has proof of what happened, and Trump starts to make up a story, he's caught. The end.

CincyDem

(6,363 posts)
59. I envision that interview like a scene from Ray Donovon...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:43 AM
Nov 2017


Mickey Donovan (Jon Voight) spinning a bullchit tail that is so off the wall the prosecutors just sit their with their mouths hanging open. And Voight (in spite of his asshat politics) plays it exactly like I see trump playing it. With an air of superiority and entitlement.

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
14. Yeah.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:50 AM
Nov 2017

That Manafort/Papadopoulos rollout was pure genius.

Threw everyone for a loop.
Way to keep the Trump team off balance.

Muellar and team are scary formidable.

Turbineguy

(37,342 posts)
28. Oh yes.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 07:03 AM
Nov 2017

GOP politicians should check to see where their contributions are coming from. Mr. Mueller gave them a nice list of banks.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
51. Oh I know the Manafort investigation began a year before. But I know what it is to take something...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:12 AM
Nov 2017

But I know what it is to take a big case over from someone else. It doesn't save you much time. You have to review every piece of information, then do your own thing with it, then decide where to go from there. Then create your own timelines, spreadsheets, memos. Then a LOT of the interviews and evidence did come from investigatory efforts since Mueller took over. Particularly the parts requiring the experts that Mueller hired, which the FBI didn't have.

I have no doubt that many in that office worked through the night many times, with no sleep. I did the same when working on financial cases associated with the recession investment negligence. And this is way more complex than that. (I was a paralegal, specializing in large cases with thousands of documents and responsible for the organization and categorization of every document, email, and piece of information embedded within those documents. Then numbering and organizing the thousands of exhibits that constituted the actual evidence to prove a case.)

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
60. Their rule: if you dont come in Saturday dont even bother coming in Sunday
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 10:42 AM
Nov 2017

I know that they are working around the clock. A friend of mine clerked for Thurgood Marshall and rather than go home she just slept in his bathtub at the Court. They understand that to a degree the fate of the world is in their hands and they give every breath to this task.


We owe them our gratitude.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
30. I kept trying to explain this to people who were comparing nothing was happening
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 07:52 AM
Nov 2017

People were clamoring that nothing was happening and demanding to know what the state of things was and saying because they had not heard anything or seen anything Mueller and his team must not be doing anything.

I was telling them that they won’t see anything until his team wants it seen, and that will be when he has all his ducks perfectly in a row.

And he does here so far.

Manafort will die in prison. The evidence against him laid out in that indictment is clear and solid.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
44. He is 68.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:48 AM
Nov 2017

He will likely be 69-70 by the time it goes to trial or gets settled in a plea.

He won’t get sentenced to life, but looking at the charges even with a plea deal he will get sentenced to a longer term than he has left on this earth.

I can’t see him getting off with less than a 20-25 year sentence.

Maybe he can beat the odds and live into his 90’s in prison. I doubt it.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
53. I read that Manafort is looking at 15 years in prison. So he'd die in prison. He could make a deal.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:15 AM
Nov 2017

He is privy to some juicy information, so he could make a deal. I don't know if he's the type who would do that, though.

If they don't confiscate the money (and maybe they can't), he could make a deal, then get out of prison in 5 years, then retire in a foreign country with his millions.

kentuck

(111,103 posts)
40. Very complex case.
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 08:20 AM
Nov 2017

Handled very professionally. I can only imagine the amount of work that went into it.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
54. Mueller has earned a place in history. There will never be a reference to Trump's reign of terror...
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 09:17 AM
Nov 2017

without a reference to Mueller. History books, biographies, etc.

H2O Man

(73,559 posts)
61. Recommended!
Wed Nov 1, 2017, 11:03 AM
Nov 2017

I really enjoyed reading your OP, and the comments that follow. I come from an Irish-American family -- my father was a "first generation" with 13 siblings. Several brothers were in law enforcement and intelligence. I opted for a career in human services, though my formal education included a lot of law and law enforcement. I remember a professor saying that a good criminal can think of 15 to 20 ways to cover their tracks, but that a good investigator can find 50 ways to identify him. (It dawned on me then how my uncles always knew what I had done as a teenager!)

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