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A HERETIC I AM

(24,368 posts)
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:28 AM Oct 2017

I was born when there were only 49 states and Eisenhower was President.

The angst of the Republican electorate is palpable.

I work with several guys who absolutely HATED the idea that Obama was elected, HATE the entire idea of a “Clinton” in power and just simply can not stand liberalism. They see it as the same evil many of us see conservatism.

Why? What the fuck did progressive political thought do to the middle class? I am constantly befuddled by the types of people I come across - honestly decent people who mean well, aren’t monsters, are not stupid, etc., just can not wrap their minds around the fact that the last decent Republican President their party was able to put forward was Dwight D. Eisenhower and are completely and utterly blind to the damage Reagan did to working class Americans. These are working class types I’m talking about and they tend to be vehemently anti-union, even though our company is largely represented by a collective bargaining agreement.

One guy who I like and care for, have co-driven with for well over 40,000 miles, served this counry as a submariner on both boomers and attack subs, spent more than 2 and a half years submerged in aggregate, just continues to search for a reason to literally HATE Democratic politics.

Why?

There is no way I can convince these people that the Republican Party has hurt them. They are convinced that Liberals are communists, and I am finding more and more they can’t properly define any difference between socialism and communism.

The aforementioned Navy man went so far as to desperately grasp at Michelle Obama and the idea that she literally hates white people because (he says) a college paper she supposedly wrote declares herself as such, as if that alone was justification to hate liberalism. When I told him that Obama was the first virtually completely scandal free presidency in 50 years, he would have none of it.

I’m beginning to think it is simply angst. Frustration that their own political ideology constantly fails to put forward ANY program or political philosophy that would actually improve their lives.

I’ve said this to many, and perhaps it bears repeating, because it is, at the end, all of what we fight for;

The Republican party has, for at least the length of my lifetime , been consistent in delivering rules, regulations and legislation that serves people who need the LEAST SERVICE.

An has adversely affected those that need the most.

Just try and convince the next Trump supporter you come across who makes less than $100,000 a year that Republican economic and political ideology harms them.

You can’t.

Why someone of modest means thinks cutting taxes for people whom they can in no way relate from an economic standpoint is a good thing is completely perplexing. What makes otherwise normal persons to actually think lynching a sitting member of Congress because she had the temerity to question their current favorite son. Why is it that men and women who are advantaged by military health programs just refuse to acknowledge the need of others a similar circumstance?

I wish I had that magic bullet. The ice projectile that could dissolve their concerns that by letting go of their fears of progressive thought, it is possible, just possible, their lives might improve.

I’m happy to say that after 40 years as a smoker, I am completely incapable of holding my breath that long.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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John1956PA

(2,654 posts)
1. I, too, work with middle class voters who think Democrats are evil. I blame Right Wing propaganda.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:40 AM
Oct 2017

From hate radio to fake social media accounts, the Right-Wing (and now, Russia) propaganda machines have demonized Democrats in the minds of many middle class working people such as those you and I encounter in our respective workplaces.

Rhiannon12866

(205,405 posts)
2. Me, too - and I also don't remember Republicans being so viciously partisan
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 02:46 AM
Oct 2017

I know my parents voted for Nixon but I remember when President Kennedy was shot my mother was as shocked and upset as anyone. I remember when Barry Goldwater appeared on with Jay Leno, Leno tried to goad him into attacking President Clinton. And Goldwater refused to take the bait, said "He's my president, too." My parents felt like Goldwater did.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
4. Truman for me, and there were 48. I have the same problem understanding the hate...
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 03:15 AM
Oct 2017

probably arising from the changes in the '60s.

I think it's the same mechanism that gives us religion. I don't know exactly what that is, but we see something we can't explain and jump on the first explanation that makes some sort of sense. And that explanation sticks like glue.

It doesn't help if the real explanation involves work on our part.

It didn't hurt anyone when the ancients looked up at the sun and guessed it was Apollo on a flaming chariot. It started to cause trouble with the ruling church when the idea of the solar system came up, but the average person wasn't affected, so the truth would come out slowly.

Now we have the average person not being affected by global warming, so it's easy to deny it. It makes it easier to deny when accepting it means making a lot of personal changes.

Obama and Hillary? Attitudes born in the '60s are as difficult to change as one's belief in God.

Ours, too.

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
5. Haaaaaaa.... we had this sign in our yard for over a year:
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 03:16 AM
Oct 2017


Mom took me to see him speak

Parents were both Birchers

Ironically, my dad had half his ass blown off fighting the nazis his beloved pub party has become, said cult which wouldn’t countenance the likes of BG or RR today
 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
6. I'm almost exactly the same age
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 04:06 AM
Oct 2017

Born in 1959, after Alaska achieved statehood but before Hawaii.

I encountered the crowd you are describing in 1984 Las Vegas. I've mentioned it here previously. White males from all over the country but common bond in hating government and therefore Democrats. The last Democrat they respected was John F. Kennedy. But put Kennedy in today's climate and they would rage against him.

If you tell these guys they are voting against their best interests they won't allow you to reach the end of the sentence before launching a wide eyed profane attack.

I'm convinced our party would be markedly better off if the topic of declining white voter impact had never surfaced. Instead it was another avenue for fear to attach. Not only are hispanics, asians and blacks taking our jobs but they are dictating who runs our country and our courts. Only in the past few days did I become aware that two friends of mine from Las Vegas who were overwhelmingly pro-Gore and pro-Obama had switched away to Donald Trump in 2016. Shock doesn't begin to describe my reaction, especially with one of them. He contacted me out of the blue by email and I actually wrote a long response with plenty of mocking toward Trump voters, until he informed me he was one of them. Apparently he got a job at the local motor speedway and was absorbed by the NASCAR crowd. Now his emails sound like Richard Petty.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
7. Propaganda
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 05:14 AM
Oct 2017

I would bet all those folks who you meet who hate liberals get all their news from Fox and RW hate Radio. It is a scourge on America.

Martin Eden

(12,867 posts)
16. I had that same thought.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 09:18 AM
Oct 2017

That level of hate and fear isn't a normal reaction to Democrats and their policies, especially compared to the effects of Republicans and THEIR policies.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
8. The Republican's product, that they sell....
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 05:29 AM
Oct 2017

is HATE. That's all they have, and that's all they sell to these "patriotic" types you speak of. They sell "welfare mothers", they sell "Willie Hortons", they sell "liberal elitists", they sell "Hollyweird" celebrities, they sell racist rhetoric by the ton. That's all they have. They have NO new ideas for America, so they continue to sell their old tried and true product of hate. I'm amazed it still works, but it seems Americans have an incredible capacity to hate what they don't understand, which is MUCH!

That's my take on it. I'm sure there are other reasons these people act like they do, but hate sure has a lot to do with it.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
9. Trump is so awful and his policies will hurt everyone.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 06:35 AM
Oct 2017

So, I think he will be blamed eventually. But, I doubt the GOP will it be Trump started off as 'Democrat'...however...this is their last gasp...Demographics will get them in the end.

yardwork

(61,619 posts)
10. They are brainwashed.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 07:20 AM
Oct 2017

Thirty years of hate radio, Fox News, and now Facebook and twitter feeds that reinforce the message.

Half the country believes an alternate reality and I don't know what we can do except fight it one by one.

Lars39

(26,109 posts)
11. My inlaws were career military.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 07:55 AM
Oct 2017

Can’t count the times I’ve heard them rant over the years about the healthcare promises they’ve had broken. They don’t want healthcare for everyone because they themselves would not be special and entitled anymore.
No one has else earned it.

PufPuf23

(8,776 posts)
12. Many folks remain racist and homophobic and thus are GOP.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 08:04 AM
Oct 2017

I say this as a white male born the week Eisenhower was inaugurated.

The dark side of the ideal 1950s Eisenhower USA was that racial, gender, and sexual divides were social and legal and economic institutions.

Some remain stuck and some think that position is virtue.

Nixon, Reagan, the Bushes, and now Trump have been horrid POTUS; GWB and Trump have been so bad as to make Nixon look good by comparison.

It is not enough for the Democratic Party to be the "not GOP". We need to offer something to elevate all people. I think the best way is to get our own house in order but that seems to be a minority position within the current Party.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,491 posts)
14. Truman for me. I vaguely remember Ike.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 08:11 AM
Oct 2017

The conversion of some 20-30% of our population to right-wing dogma and hate is complex and has taken over 40 years.

My recollection of Republicans in the early 60s is that they were made up almost entirely of the wealthy business owners and the political issue that drove them was taxes. At that time, our tax laws were much more progressive, so rich folks resented paying more. Republican politicians such as Bob Dole regularly railed against taxes and deficit spending on TV. The few Republicans I knew in my hometown in rural TN were nice, regular folks but of higher income levels such as doctors or small businessmen. I don't recall hateful rhetoric except for the systemic racism against blacks common to most all whites. We were never exposed to Hyspanics, homosexuals or foreigners. We thought people from Ohio and Florida were foreigners, LOL.

The first hateful right-wing speech I recall was from Spiro Agnew with his racist campaign in their Southern Strategy, which eventually converted much of the South (including my all Democratic area) to Republican voting. During that era, massive right-wing brainwashing had not taken off, so I think most of that could have been reversed under the right circumstances. However, the 60s brought about so much social upheaval that solidified resentment in many church-goers against progressive change, as well as hippies, rock music, etc. So, at that point, a large fraction of our populace was ripe for brainwashing. And, racism was still there but somewhat more covert.

Then, Reagan came along and had extremely high popular appeal with social conservatives and used all the right words to convert many people's thinking on social spending from good to bad, along with the familiar troupe against taxes and deficits. His time further solidified the Republican mindset in many former Democrats that were religious and social conservatives. Republican strategists such as Lee Atwater clearly saw this opportunity to permanently expand the Republican base and took the advantage. Billionaire eyes were glowing with joy.

They knew their support from this new base was shaky however, and began to do full-time maintenance on it through right-wing talk radio (mainly 70s to present) and more TV exposure from their Reagan-era elected pols. After that, aggressive talk radio characters such as Limbaugh came in to solidify the cult and in the mid-90s, Rupert Murdoch's Fox News came in to occupy much more air time but with video.

As you know, the GOP's history of success is fraught with lying, deception, racism, false use of religion, misogyny, emotional rage, instilling of unjustified fears, xenophobia, sensationalism and constant circulation of numerous conspiracy theories - in other words, appealing to human's most base instincts and our worst primitive attributes. Our populace will always harbor part or all of those characteristics to some extent, and we simply have to evolve out of those bad parts of our natures.

The other primary factors making people vulnerable to GOP dogma is poor or narrow education levels nation-wide and lack of broad social exposure in rural areas. Not much we can do about the rural limitations, but we sure as hell can work to improve our weak level of critical thinking skills by re-emphasizing the need for studies in science, math, and the arts. We also desperately need to bolster interest in American government, civics and world history. If we allow our public education system to be driven only by the needs of corporate America, we're screwed.

Enough of my rant - as you can seem I'm just as frustrated as you!

GoCubsGo

(32,084 posts)
15. Perhaps they aren't as honest and decent as you believe them to be.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 08:22 AM
Oct 2017

Decent people don't threaten to lynch another human being. They don't approve of torturing others. They don't believe that basic rights to things like food, shelter, health care are dependent upon how much money one has. Decent people don't say, "I got mine. Screw you."

MineralMan

(146,311 posts)
17. There were only 48 when I was born.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 09:53 AM
Oct 2017

When Alaska and Hawaii became states, I was a Freshman in high school.

kskiska

(27,045 posts)
18. Roosevelt for me.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 11:28 AM
Oct 2017

My dad was in a POW camp in Germany for over a year when the war ended. Yet he was a staunch Republican all his life. My mom was a Dem. My dad always voted with his wallet in mind. He watched Fox every night. He's gone now, but I have to wonder if he'd have voted for this clown. Probably.

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