Dying While Defending This Country Is A Lost Cause And A Waste Anymore.

[TheMastersNemesis]

I believe that our troops are dying in vain in defense of the country the way it is now. We do not deserve our troops. I am a vet and if I had it to do over I would resist the draft or go to another country. Trump and traitorous GOP are now becoming our new normal based on projections on the next election.

What are we defending when we are stuck with a GOP and Trump who really have committed treason when you look at all the evidence.

The public seems to be OK with Trump's actions. I see no protests and still wide support of the public particularly the base. The GOP plans to scrap the VA, cut Tricare for veterans and retirees, and abolish the military retirement system and turn it into a 401K systems, turn military health care into a privatized voucher system etc etc etc.

And the public seems to be OK with trashing our vets. No one cares about our troops dying really. All vets are is a prop to be used and tossed like everything else.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

1. It's been headed this way for a while - now it's "Defend our Country's Corporations."

Not much of a rallying cry.

[Orrex]

9. With perhaps two or three exceptions, it's been that way for close to 2 centuries, at least

[edhopper]

2. I think our troops

serve honorably and put their lives on the line.
I also think we do not treat our vets properly.

But there has been few if any times in my six decades where the military actions they have been part of have actually been about defending this country, Which is more the shame.



(I also don't think National Anthem protests have anything to do with the troops of vets)

[roamer65]

3. Sad, but very true...Nemesis.

I agree with you.

[TheMastersNemesis]

5. When I Wear My Vets Hat Very Few People Are Curious Nor Seem To Care.

I get the sense a lot of people support Trump on his actions. I see no backlash really. And I really do think that the public is ok that vets are on their own after they return. Disabled vets make good PR props. Other than than they are forgotten. Many disabled vets need extra ordinary care. Many need level of care equal to nursing home care. That means 24/7 care for the rest of their lives. And such care falls on the families.

Right now I am so disgusted with the public. I would not defend a conservative or GOPPER from a terrorist they way I feel right now. I know how badly Vietnam veterans and Iraq war veterans have been treated. And when I was working at a homeless shelter in Boulder, Colorado had many homeless veterans.

And I really do not pledge allegiance nor sing ant anthem anymore. And I will not fly the flag unless upside down.

[Marengo]

4. Resist by running off? If you had genuine courage you would remain to publicly and loudly oppose.

[TheMastersNemesis]

7. I Would Openly Resist The A Draft Now & Counsel Young Men To Resist.

[Marengo]

8. From another country?

[TheMastersNemesis]

12. I Talking About The Past. I Would Simply Be A Canadian Citizen Had I Defected Then.

I imagine you served in the military in a war zone like I did.

[Marengo]

15. Running off is neither courageous nor inspiring. Its just running off.

[Marengo]

21. No, OP, I wont screw off as you commanded me in your email. As I said, you would be far more...

Effective and inspirational to remain and resist publicly, just as Eugene Debs and Muhammad Ali did for example.

[ExciteBike66]

10. Wow, it must have taken some courage to write that.

Way to insult the guy. You must feel very brace this morning.

[Marengo]

14. Reflect for a moment on the contrast of courage between the OP author and Eugene Debs. Which

Is more inspiring.

[ExciteBike66]

18. Just because one person has a high level of courage doesn't mean you need to insult

others who don't measure up to your "standard".

That said, I bet the Op would be much more useful to the resistance if he was in Canada vs if he was in jail (which is where you went if you dodged the draft).

[Marengo]

19. I disagree, and as I stated upthead, running off is neither courageous nor inspiring. Lead from...

The front, so to speak.

[heaven05]

27. well, get out there

I'm waiting....I thought so As an AA, I am ashamed at this POS potus, #the blue falcon and the rest of the racist, worthless administration running this country.....into the ground. You're a marine. You stand by the #blue falcon?

[Marengo]

29. Is a draft currently in effect?

[heaven05]

31. like I said

I thought so.

[Marengo]

32. I have no clue as to what youre going on about. Try and stay on topic if thats possible.

[heaven05]

39. you're right

you have no clue, I totally agree. The topic is self explanatory given all who have tried their damndest to explain the topic to you...alas, to no avail.

[ChubbyStar]

40. Thank you

[Marengo]

43. What are you thanking that poster for?

[ChubbyStar]

46. Seriously? Who wants to know?

That would be between me and that poster. Sorry you are out of the loop.

[Marengo]

50. You interjected a cryptic remark into a discussion between that poster and I. How about you...

Explain the meaning? It’s interesting that you would refuse to initially.

[ChubbyStar]

62. Snort!!!

Really?

[Marengo]

41. Is a draft currently in effect? Please answer the question.

[TheMastersNemesis]

16. Yes I Am Brace This Morning. Beverly Disabled Vet Will Not Survive A Privatized VA Sytsem

The idea of turning military veterans health care should be a NONSTARTER to ANY American. After battle and combat many wounded veterans end up with very mutilated bodies with huge physical and mental health issues. I lost a leg to staph and it is still a challenge every day even though my loss was not service related.

What about vets who lose multiple limbs and have metal in their bodies for life. What about PTSD which is a lifelong hugely disabling injury you fight every damned day? A privatized system will do nothing for these people.

The fact that the VA could be trashed and my fellow veterans would be abandoned should end political careers and even get these bastards truly tarred and feathered.

NONE OF THESE COWARDLY BASTARDS EVER SERVED.

[lunasun]

20. +++++ a private system is not what we should be offering those who serve.

Yes you would think this would get those promoting it tarred and feathered, instead probably reelected. I don't understand the citizens supporting this or turning thier eyes the other way on vets

[heaven05]

28. THIS

especially "the cowardly bastards....."

[Mariana]

23. Why shouldn't they leave?

It's not really a matter of courage. We're talking about men the country wanted to force to kill, and perhaps to be killed by, people who were absolutely no threat whatsoever to this country. Why should anyone remain loyal to a country that does that? Why shouldn't men in that position decide to go live in a country that isn't so willing to sacrifice their lives for nothing? It seems like a very reasonable thing to do.

[Marengo]

24. What more effectively promotes change, quietly running off or public resistance in the face of...

Prosecution? If the goal is entirely self-preservation, flight certainly is reasonable. However, that’s ultimately a selfish motive if a national resistance movement can benefit from remaining. A movement which, if successful, has the potential of forcing a policy change in which no one is subject to conscription.

[Pope George Ringo II]

59. This country as we know it was built largely by people who ran off.

Occupational hazard of an immigrant society. People fled Europe for New York, or China for San Francisco, then their descendants looked for greener pastures and settled the interior. Even those whose ancestors arrived involuntarily had their own Great Migration. "It's crappy here, we have to leave!" "It's okay here, but it's better over there!" For good and for ill, that's a big part of the story of this nation.

One of the sad parts of being American is moving on when it gets tough.

[Va Lefty]

6. Well stated and agree with bagels, been going in this direction for a while

[TheMastersNemesis]

11. Trump's Behavior Is Probably Gaining Him Votes Because The Soldier Is Black.

What about the three white soldiers who died. Nothing being said about them.

[MineralMan]

13. These Days, Military Service Has Little to Do with Defending the Country

Really, the US isn't under military attack from anyone. Instead, our military personnel are tasked with fighting about things that may or may not be worthwhile fighting over.

During the Vietnam War, I opted to enlist in the USAF rather than waiting to be drafted. I figured that would remove the possibility that I'd be shooting at someone with whom I had no conflict. That was my choice. As it turned out, my four years were well-spent and helped me settle my young self down and find a clear direction.

I'm deeply disturbed by our current military position with regard to the world. I don't know what I'd do now if I were a young guy and there was still a draft in place.

[heaven05]

30. we are essentially

Last edited Tue Oct 24, 2017, 08:21 PM - Edit history (1)

an imperialist power now. Every since 2004 in this latest era...Vietnam was no fucking "domino" in that goddamn theory of kissingers. Korea was to help an ally. After that, I just can't see anything good.....we are the 21st century Roman empire less, less 1500 years, the decline is in view here if we continue to allow POS like this potus and his administration to corrode the experiment in democracy this country WAS.

[Caliman73]

44. Actually... we've had imperialist ambitions since way before 2004.

Think back to what Smedley Butler wrote about in "War is a Racket". He was a Marine general fighting to quell rebellions in Central America for United Fruit company in the 1900's. We took on the teetering Spanish Empire in 1900 and acquired the Philippines, Guam, Puerto Rico, and other territories, then spent years crushing native rebellions.

After WWII we were one of the only countries that had not sustained damage to our infrastructure and so we were able to spread out and place military installations all over the globe. Now, anytime anyone wants to pull back a bit, they are labelled as wanting to weaken America and leave us vulnerable. Democrats are called weak, when Democratic Presidents have been CIC in most of the major military conflicts in the 20th and 21st centuries.

The problem with America is that reality is one way, but we often choose to blind ourselves or see it only through lenses which make our intentions pure and innocent. Meanwhile we send poor and middle class people to fight and die so that we might have access to oil, or mineral wealth, or to keep shipping lanes under our control.

[elehhhhna]

17. When is the last time a vet actually died defending this country?

[ClarendonDem]

34. I would argue

That the American soldiers who died in Afghanistan died in defense of this country. Osama bin Laden was clearly a threat to the safety of Americans, and had been for long years before 9/11.

[elehhhhna]

35. That was perhaps part defense, part retribution

And virtually all the hijackers, money, and bin Laden himself came from Saudi let's not forget that

[ClarendonDem]

36. Oh, completely agree with those points

[Caliman73]

45. There are some reports indicating that the Taliban offered to turn Bin Laden over.

They had grown tired of him bringing attention. From what I remember, Bush said "No".

[HopeAgain]

53. Why are we there 17 freaking years later??

We could have taken out Al-Quada camps with missiles and we got Bin Laden in Pakistan. One of our stupider wars.

[KPN]

55. WWII actually (with possible exception of early Afghanistan)

Excellent question. Thank you for that!

[Pope George Ringo II]

56. The Pentagon on 9/11 would clearly qualify in my books.

Some other stuff gets arguable, but I'll say those casualties shouldn't be in dispute here.

[KPN]

61. I agree -- also WTC. So response

legitimate response to al Qaeda.

A lot of our conflicts otherwise are a result of empire.

[Permanut]

22. Vietnam era vet here..

By just the luck of the draw, Navy sent me to a tin can out of Norfolk, Virginia, never went within ten thousand miles of Vietnam. I was drafted, served with many others who were reluctant to participate in the invasion of a third world country.

ALL of the men I served with served honorably, and with great courage. That said, I also knew guys who resisted the draft, burned their draft cards or left the country. They did NOT do those things out of a lack of courage; on the contrary, I admired their strength of character to stand up to an administration that was sending young people to die for politics, not in defending the country.

I'm with MastersNemesis on this one.

[ck4829]

25. Kick

[Not Ruth]

26. It has not been worth joining the military since WW2

[lindysalsagal]

33. If, by "this country" you mean, a place called America? yeah. That's over, now.

These are the united states of russia.

And there is no loss you can suffer that will be enough for Putin.

[alarimer]

37. This country and its citizens are not worth defending.

50% or more are racist, ignorant pieces of shit. We have NEVER once lived up to our ideas. There is no sense in fighting for oil companies and authoritarians who literally could not care less about the people serving. Why bother at all?

[Marengo]

42. Even citizens aligned with your ideology are not worth defending?

[liquid diamond]

49. Considering your post I

think back to WWII black servicemen and women. They suffered despicable discrimination by whites and their fellow soldiers. I wonder why the hell they would serve such a country that hates them. Makes no sense at all.

[Pope George Ringo II]

57. It's something the British Empire exploited with colonial troops from Ireland to India.

"If we can just prove our loyalty with our blood, that will earn us the respect and equality we deserve." I'm not commenting on how well it worked, but the desire to be the next Gunga Din has been frighteningly consistent.

[HughBeaumont]

58. Yeah, I'D really want to defend a country that sees no problem with "President Donald Trump".

This was an IQ and Character Test. The United States failed BOTH.

It's bad enough we tossed this country away to the corporations sometime around Nixon.

Now we're not even smart enough to recognize the repeated failure of trying to "run thuh gubmit as a bizness".

[TarponSnook]

38. The Medal of Honor Ceremony is Sacred!

I was unable to contain my most disgusting reaction to seeing this coward and draft dodging dumb fuck moron of a shit head pResident when honoring a Vietnam Medal of Honor recipient. DTRUMPF is not only a treasonous MF but also a COWARD! Sen McCain is a true hero and so are our Men in Uniform who have died in foreign soils to defend our freedom. DTRUMPF soils the Office of the President of the USA!

[jalan48]

47. This became apparent to many Americans during the Vietnam War. We're an imperialistic state.

[WinkyDink]

48. Well, the problem is: There IS no such thing as "defending this country" at the moment.

[Lint Head]

51. When I hear that the troops are fighting for our freedom or so we can stay free I cringe.

Our freedom was fought and won during the Revolutionary War. WWII was to keep Europe free and keep Nazis from invading and attacking our country.
We need a standing military for defense and it should be use sparingly.
If anything, the constant use of the military is draining funds that could be used right here for The People.

[Initech]

52. I wish we could just give the billionaires their own country to run and ruin.

Rather than taking the US down with them. Fuck them. The Kochs, Mercers, Waltons, should be considered enemies of the state. They do not represent the interests of the US.

[KPN]

54. Has been for decades!

[DavidDvorkin]

60. It has always been the great lie, used to inspire young men to die

Read Wilfrid Owen's great poem from World War One:

http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html