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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRoy Moore: Kneeling During Anthem Is Against the Law
Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore claims that professional athletes kneeling during the national anthem is against the law. In an interview with TIME, published Wednesday, the far-right Republican argued that athletes protesting police brutality violate a section of the U.S. code on conduct while the national anthem is playing. Its against the law, you know that? the former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice. It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. Thats the law. He added: If they didnt have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law. If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey? The candidates comments came without any acknowledgement of his own history with the law: Moore was suspended in 2016 for the remainder of his term after ordering Alabama judges to not enforce the U.S. Supreme Courts rulingthe law of the landon same-sex marriage.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/roy-moore-kneeling-during-anthem-is-against-the-law
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Initech
(100,102 posts)Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
These people do not know or care who they are hurting.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag".
~Molly Ivins
Different Drummer
(7,642 posts)Welcome to DU!
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)He's been dragging us through mental hell, sometimes you hit that wall of no return & just have to speak up.
Different Drummer
(7,642 posts)SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)and I think we're all here for the same reason. I like your sig line, loosely translated 'in the land of the blind that king has one eye'? Or something like that. It's been a long time since Latin class back in high school. I'm aware of the adage, "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King", but I've never seen it in Latin before. Or maybe I'm horribly wrong and it means 'Donald Trump is a big, fat turd".
Anyway, welcome to Democratic Underground, and feel free to commiserate to your heart's content. We're all in this together.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King"
"The Italians have the same saying, In un mondo di ciechi un orbo è re.
The German people have their version of the proverb: Those that rule must hear and be deaf, must see and be blind.
And the French people also have their own version of the proverb: When a blind man bears the standard, pity those who follow.
Some say its a variation of a Bible quote found in Matthew 15:14 that states:
If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.
Its also found in Luke 6:39 as:
Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?
I know it as an old Latin quote.
tblue37
(65,487 posts)use all the time with my students when I explain that there is always a relative component to their grades. If everyone else is performing abysmally, then mediocrity can look good by comparison.
I also tell them the joke about two guys running from a grizzly bear. One says, "What's the use? We'll never outrun the bear!"
the other responds, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)If only she could be around to write about the nightmare we're living through today.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)of course.
Roy Moore says the people of God are rising up, while Sebastian Gorka hints at a sinister new alliance
After all, fascism and conservative religion, fundamentalist especially, are natural, strongly authoritarian bedfellows, and many Americans find the burden of being free people too much and really feel a need to be told who to vote for and why, and a duty to follow.
Love how, for them, freedom is really mostly focused on control of their own money and property, while "small government" should never be too small to control what happens in our beds. And our churches.
GoCubsGo
(32,088 posts)What "act of Congress"???
Another demented nutjob who makes shit up.
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)Here's what he is referring to:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301
But the first amendment freedom of expression to speak, or remain silent, whether by words or expressive conduct, trumps an ettiquette provision of the code.
Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #36)
sarah FAILIN This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #36)
uncle ray This message was self-deleted by its author.
duhneece
(4,117 posts)I don't know enough about the law to know how this difference affects the kneeling
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)duhneece
(4,117 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)These at truly frightening times.
Siwsan
(26,289 posts)I mean, damn!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)he should know that.
(a)Designation.
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.During a rendition of the national anthem
(1) when the flag is displayed
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
It says "should," not "shall," "will" or "must." That means it's just advisory, not mandatory, and therefore it's not illegal to fail to do those things. If it was, they'd have to arrest half the beer-guzzling, hotdog-eating, sitting-on-their-asses, texting, nose-picking audience members at every sports event.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)And that's why he was a shitty judge.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,377 posts)I despise Roy Moore. He represents everything wrong with Christianity run amok and he shouldn't be allowed within 1000 yards of the Capitol Building
Paraphrasing the great defense lawyer Gerry Spence;
"The only reason most attorneys seek a judgeship is because they were crappy lawyers to begin with"
DinahMoeHum
(21,809 posts)Crusader Pig.
SCantiGOP
(13,873 posts)It says should, and there is no penalty attached.
Stallion
(6,476 posts)his argument is in bad faith
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Athough there is a lot of stupid going around I can't keep blaming stupid for every case of bad faith and twisted ideology that comes along. Right wing extremists especially rw religious extremists, make the law into whatever fits their belief quirk.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,600 posts)I know you can find it, but I've been looking up regulations in the eCFR (Electronic Code of Federal Regulations) all day long, so I might as well throw in something from the U.S. Code.
I doubt it will set off a red flag for IT.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2016-title36/pdf/USCODE-2016-title36-subtitleI.pdf
Go on down to page 39 of the print edition, which is page 27 of the .pdf file.
"Should" this, "should" that, and "should" the other.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)struggle4progress
(118,338 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)3catwoman3
(24,041 posts)...have been judges makes my blood run cold.
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)dumb as a bag of shit.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)Initech
(100,102 posts)Kneeling during the anthem was freedom of speech and freedom of protest last I checked.
JustAnotherGen
(31,879 posts)Reporters do their job and 'fact' check these interviews - especially when in print.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)and more want to get high up in the political ladder to fuck up the USA.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Yavin4
(35,445 posts)There's no limit to Republican crazy. They're like Batman villains. They get worse and worse.
rock
(13,218 posts)It's a suggestion. Take it or leave it.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,600 posts)swimboy
(7,285 posts)No damage to a single heterosexual marriage has resulted; further, there have been no reports of dogs marrying turtles.
Yavin4
(35,445 posts)Wait...what?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,198 posts)louis-t
(23,297 posts)Crazy people.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)haele
(12,676 posts)The Flag Code also only applies - as a code of conduct, not anything actually legal with punitive measures - to government personnel and government property.
Unless we are in BizzaroLand and the NFL is part of the Government, players can do whatever they choose within the laws concerning public exhibition (i.e., they can't drop trow in public...) whenever the Flag is presented and the anthem played.
What a small-minded, snowglobe-dwelling Doofus. #notajudgeRoyMoore
Haele
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)to do anything.
(a)Designation.
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.During a rendition of the national anthem
(1) when the flag is displayed
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
haele
(12,676 posts)Haele
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)but you don't have to.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)some kind of lawyer.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)spanone
(135,873 posts)MiniMe
(21,718 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)He just wants it to do what he wants, even if he has to step on it and twist it to meet his will.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)its very sad
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)the LAW if it does!
One looks to LAWS to know what is legal or not, NOT to "CODES."
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)36 United States Code Sec. 301, specifically.
However, this particular law does not REQUIRE compliance. The language is permissive (should), not mandatory (shall).
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,600 posts)ecstatic
(32,731 posts)Who knows for how much longer but right now we still have the right to free speech and freedom of religion. I don't have to do shit for a flag or racist song if I don't feel like it. Oh, and FUCK YOU!!!
syringis
(5,101 posts)He have an hazardous and arbitrary interpretation of the legislation...
It is not the first time.
As if he found his diploma in a lucky bag rather than being graduated from an university.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)They do not believe in flag ceremonies including the pledge. They consider it a prayer to a worldly thing (country) and not God. And yet - It's Freedom of Religion!
louis-t
(23,297 posts)Fucking idiot.
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)shit from shine-ola. That reminds me of Steve Martin in 'The Jerk'. I'm too lazy right now or I'd go look for it.
SCantiGOP
(13,873 posts)Believe me.
By the way, I am as accurate and as qualified to make that statement as Moore was.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,168 posts)I'm good with either option.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,168 posts)I was hoping to increase the discomfort!
spanone
(135,873 posts)Orrex
(63,224 posts)Heigh-o!
ExciteBike66
(2,374 posts)36 US Code 301: (C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;
The operative word there is "should". Any judge "should" be able to tell you that "should" does not mean "must".
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)It didn't stop this scofflaw!