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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe could lose to trump for being to liberal
So says Sen Dick Durbin.
I say if we lose to trump for any reason in 2020 than we have no reason to exist as a political party.
"You can," Durbin said. "I think you can overdo it. We have to really appeal to that sensible center.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/16/politics/kfile-dick-durbin-sunday-radio-interview/index.html
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)onecaliberal
(32,863 posts)angrychair
(8,700 posts)Infinity and beyond agree
bullimiami
(13,096 posts)angrychair
(8,700 posts)Infinity and beyond agree
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)especially those who are barely scraping by, if that, those going to bed hungry at night, those without a roof over their heads or living in crime-infested areas, those who don't have lobbyists looking after THEIR interests, giving them a "voice" to help improve their lives? I don't think you can EVER overdo that!!.
angrychair
(8,700 posts)Infinity and beyond agree
BigmanPigman
(51,608 posts)fallout87
(819 posts)There is a far left fringe that the RW media is portraying as the entire left. It scares people to the right. We need to be careful
Aristus
(66,386 posts)get in than the "wrong" Democrat.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Republicans have the White House, the US House, the US Senate, a vast majority of governorships and a vast majority of state legislative bodies.
Gee, perhaps the strategy employed these past several decades isn't working.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)It's not bad policies. It's bad candidates.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)But the party must accept the bulk of the blame for being in such an incredibly weak position. For one thing, they don't make a stink about media consolidation or race-based voter suppression. Instead, they let Republicans control the narrative and are on the defensive as the GOP beats the "liberal media" drum and talks about voter fraud.
And let's be honest, Dems are beholden to many of the same interests as the GOP. Goldman, JP Morgan, etc.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)Everyday, Limbaugh & his ilk tell their audience that liberals are bad & the cause of all their problems. Liberal is a great code word, cuz it covers all the protected groups that they hate - blacks, Hispanics, gays, uppity women. The dems have not been a true opposition party for many years, & no one is doing a GD thing about our compromised electoral process. I won't be surprised when the Con wins 2020 with 97% of the popular vote. And I won't even go into my non-political friends, who were so fired up for the women's march & the scientist's march, but now, a few months later, don't have time for so much as a phone call to Cory Gardner about the ACA. I tell them, weekly calls & emails are more effective than a once-every-six-months march, but to no avail. Everyday the Con is in office I have a little less hope that we'll get our country back.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)This has been going on for 35+ years.
Dan
(3,568 posts)Your best pitch... and if that is being liberal, then so be it.
If America wants Trump II - then so be it.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)We accomplish nothing by losing.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)eight more years to appoint justices, we are sunk, and it won't matter who wins after that. This is a crucial election...we have to aim for where the people are...and all indications are center left.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Dick Durbin remembers that.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I wanted to throw up when Reagan won by a humiliating margin. After Reagan's soul crushing win, the Democratic Party basically went into the tank until Clinton rescued it in 92.
Oh yeah, I forgot the wonderful liberal Dukakis getting pasted by Poppa in 88.
The far left people are always attacking winners but ignore that everytime one of their "naturals" become our nominee, we get our butts kicked.
I prefer someone that appeals strongly to the left and the center. Where I live 54,000 voters are Independent. Since my rep is a tea party republican and represents the political extreme, it would seem reasonable to guess if those 54,000 haven't changed to republican, they are open to a strong message from our side. A far left person WILL NOT win my area unless we have another Great Depression with a republican leading the country, which we may in fact get with Trump, but why hope for a soul crushing event to win when we can win and make change without trauma
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)that he's an oligarch with a secret plan to enrich himself and there's no way that he'd be planning to help the average person.
angrychair
(8,700 posts)Or regional appeal. Im talking about the fact that if we as a Party field a presidential candidate that loses to a narcissistic, xenophobic racist rapist like trump, twice, than we may not be what this country wants anymore or be the Party we think we are.
Losing because of manipulation of the system by Russia and trump once is on them, losing it twice because of manipulation of the system is on us.
More importantly I cant imagine how trump stays in office one term without destroying the country or going to jail. Every day he stays in office fundamentally changes how the system works and how we see ourselves and how we are seen, so dramatically that we lose ourselves to his madness and our way forward becomes that much more complicated.
angrychair
(8,700 posts)This analogy is tired and false. Im not here to argue which flavor of Democrat is best but these type of comparisons are being made without context.
This isnt 1972 or 1984 or 1988 and more importantly their failures were unique to them and their choices and their specific time in history.
By the logic you presented than why should we do anything that didnt work before?
Since we couldnt get legalized gay marriage in 1984 than we should have never tried again? Because a failure in 1984 means it will be a failure 33 years later because that isnt what America wants?
That wasnt true was it?
Because Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton couldnt get healthcare in the 90s than we should just give up because that isnt what America wants?
That wasnt true was it?
So, again, its not about a specific type of candidate but I do not think we should try to say that just because a particular viewpoint or ideology didnt work once that that makes the case it will never work.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)country had moved right. You have to look at the situation realistically...the states are very telling...more GOP governors than Dems...now if the population is wanting a liberal message and policy...why is that?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The progress that you claimed I claimed that we should not try to pursue again came ALL under two center-left Presidents. Running far left candidates, except for Hillary, which is a special case, got republicans elected and progress set back by at least a half decade. I dread how far back Trump will set the country and progress of all type.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Because Gore/Lieberturd was not even remotely a "far left" candidacy.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I guess you never heard of a prick called Ralph Nader.
FAIL!!!!!! On your part.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Which, in turn, moved him away from the Clinton positives and dragged the candidacy to the center-right . . . . fueling the "both parties are the same" argument (which would normally have no basis in fact unless your VP agrees with Dick Cheney on things), lessening enthusiasm for a guy who really needed it against a popular Republican brand name. Add to the fact that Bewsh had a ton of plants in all the right places and voila - close enough to steal.
You people alllllllllllways want to blame this "all powerful far left" for the failures of the uncharismatic milquetoasts and weather vanes that are elevated as the would-be standard. "My Party, Right or Wrong" is cultish behavior that allows one to never look in a mirror. Well, grab one, because you can't blame Republican victories by the truckload since 2010 on this mythical "all powerful far left".
Spare me the childish "fail". Holy SHIT, that's immature.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I want to get away from any chance that we need them for margins, they are clueless and unreliable. Take that any way you want, I don't give a damn.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,196 posts)Republican to Democrat with 8 year terms. The only exceptions were the single terms of Jimmy Carter and George HW Bush. It's just damn hard to beat an incumbent. Honestly, I think the reason Clinton did as well as she did was because Trump was just so awful. I don't think she could have beat Cruz. Not because she's less qualified (obviously) but just because, as a country, we tend to go back and forth between the parties. I just hope we're able to make Trump a one term president.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts).......even though it's has been disputed over and over again. Consider these excerpts from the New Republic article: What Democrats Still Dont Get About George McGovern:
Further down in the article:
Read the whole article: https://newrepublic.com/article/130737/democrats-still-dont-get-george-mcgovern
I'll be away from the computer most of the day, so I won't be able to reply to criticisms until late this afternoon; sorry 'bout that!
Because its always 1972 and we always choose a VP candidate with mental health issues.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)I don't assume anything in that setting. The situational advantage is massive toward Trump in 2020. We need candidate vs candidate to overcome it.
Willie Pep
(841 posts)Although for the presidency things get messy since there are also a lot of factors like personality and perception. I think Elizabeth Warren would be a great president but I could see her getting tagged with the "shrill liberal woman" label and losing like Hillary did because the media eats that stuff up to promote a horse race and what better way to do that than to trade in sexist stereotypes that get people riled up.
For Senate, House and state races that get much less media attention it all depends on which area of the country we are talking about. In some areas a true blue liberal could win without much problem. In other areas we should probably run Blue Dog candidates.
rock
(13,218 posts)Could we be so liberal that we would loose to a pile of shit? And remember, a pile of shit would be a better choice than Trump! So, I don't think so.
hatrack
(59,587 posts)There's:
1. The tattered, smoking remains of a center;
2. A sensible and substantial Left;
3. A tiny group of loonies way out on their left;
4. A big pustulent, seething, paranoid bag of dog shit on the right.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Get a f-ing clue Dems! Reputin Lite ain't working!!
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)doesn't count? The fact that 46% of voters didn't (or couldn't) vote doesn't count?
No, I don't agree with Dick Durbin. Extreme politics will always be with us. We need to get more people involved and engaged to fill out he center.
MFM008
(19,814 posts)Obama won with some pretty liberal stuff behind him.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)job creation, the ACA, saving social security and Medicare...I think birth control too,also ending the useless wars...but UBI and single payer and true far far left issues will be demonized and sink us...
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)And talking about our "Republican friends." Rather than fretting about being too liberal (and, yes, any new social benefits that require tax hikes across the population ARE a political problem), we should focus on the extremism of our opponents and finally develop lines of attack for all of our candidates that expose Republican fantasy ideology for what it is.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)How does a guy know which one to use or is it too hard. Maybe there should just be two. JK
Beearewhyain
(600 posts)Is that we have a very large contingent that thinks we should be fighting as if the political landscape and corresponding attitudes have remained unchanged since the 1990's. It's not the 90's.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Let me tell you, the country has move right.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)As far as I'm concerned, we are not liberal enough! I'm an FDR Democrat (you would call me a Progressive). All I have to do is recall the huge numbers of people that turned out for Bernie Sanders to know that this country (at least a large number of them) are ready for the original tenets of the Democratic Party...the Party of the People!
-P
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)who present as being for the working class but are secretly for the rich?
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)And look where it's gotten us. Republicans have the White House, the US House, the US Senate, a majority of governorships, a vast majority of state legislative bodies, etc.
Republicans control the narrative, while Democrats are constantly on the defensive. Instead of talking about media consolidation in the hands of giant corporations, Democrats are defending against "liberal media" claims. Instead of forcefully opposing race-based voter suppression, Democrats are refuting claims of "widespread voter fraud."
I realize that criticizing Dems is a touchy subject around here, but who can argue that the strategy/approach of the last several decades is working? The Democratic Party is in an incredibly weak position, in spite of the opposition being batshit insane. Something has to change.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Being liberal is not the problem. Selling it is, and that goes to a lack of will, and an apologetic posture among our own politicians, who say shit like, well... like this.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Because if Durbin thinks the Democratic Party (NAFTA, crime bill, era of big government is over, drones, welfare "reform," etc.) is in danger of being too "liberal," I'd hate to know what he considers to be a "centrist" position.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)and GO VOTE!!!! Otherwise, the GOP wins midterms as usual. The ads need to be about doing your duty to vote for your well-being and about Donald Trump being pathetic and awful as president (if he's not impeached by them, and he really hopefully will be...)
http://www.cafepress.com/ImpeachTrump
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)ck4829
(35,077 posts)Want to turn the US into a theocracy? You're still conservative.
Want universal healthcare or are you planning to declare you are a Muslim if the government ever plans on rolling out some sort of registry? Just a tad bit unreasonable.
We know this is how this is framed. The framers of this aren't our allies and no doubt we'll be under attack from them in the coming days as well.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)that is it. The GOP through talk radio and Fox have pretty much convinced people of supply economics. Even examples like Kansas and Indiana don't deter this insanity. We play on their turf. Look at the elections...Since 1976, we have had three Democratic Presidents...three. There was 12 years of Republicans before Clinton. He ran as the third way because that is the only way you win in 1992. It is sad for me because I had hoped we would be further along with our progressive agenda...but damn, we will be lucky to save what we have at this point. We must win in 18 and 20 ...we lose the courts and it is game over.
I don't think a 'true' progressive can win...but someone like Sherrod Brown maybe with Joe Kennedy the III as a VP (good for a win in eight years to pick someone young) can win. But if we run candidates who run on UBI, free college tuition and single payer, we are going to lose. If we run candidates that split our electorate by demanding we emphasize economic justice over social justice, we are going to lose. If we have a primary and some progressives refuse to accept the outcome and vote for the Democratic nominee, we are going to lose. (The Greens should just...well you know fuck off) This is where we are today in 2017 with at least three more years of some Republican in office as president.
We are facing thousands dying without healthcare ,( we lose healthcare, I predict we won't have for anything for years.) another economy crushing GOP tax plan where the poor are targeted, a sexual predator in the White House another war(possibly several) and the madman that is Trump could actually launch nuclear weapons against Korea and blow up the world ...pretty dark time. And the only hope is to beat the murderous Republicans in 18 and 20. Every single progressive should be concerned with that and that alone.
Women or LGBTQ or people of color are just going to to have to understand that to swing that middle-right vote a little more our way, womens healthcare may have to take a hit and they will just have to live with not having birth control through their insurance or your gay co-worker is going to have just live with having no legal rights when they are harassed at work for being gay. We have to squeeze out some more votes and throwing non-whites males and women and LGBTQ under the bus to get it doesnt mean we are just republican-lite because we will be nice about it say sorry.
Im not saying we should go full everything is free society either because nothing is free, that is the lie that conservatives say about Democrats but when do we draw the line at what it means to be a Democrat or republican? Do we just keep re-drawing that line dynamically, as needed, to get that vote?
If we have no Party planks or throw them to the side when its not convenient, than are we really in it to help each other or just for the power and to have that (d) at the end of a name?
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)angrychair
(8,700 posts)But Medicare for all or some sort of comprehensive medical insurance, for all Americans, is social justice.
Tuition free occupational education, 2-year education and reduced 4-year education is social justice.
Equal pay for equal work is social justice.
Healthcare, insurance and adoption and child visitation rights for LGBTQ couples or divorced couples is social justice.
The problem is not what its called or what it does, its having the strength of character and conviction that its the fight thing to do.
We need to stop listening to republicans and start listening to each other.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Those who contributed to the last loss would love to attack the Democratic Party and blame them, but they should look in the mirror...many were duped by the Russians and have only themselves to blame. If you are Democratic, you vote Democratic period. There is no such thing as a 'protest' vote...because what that really means is a vote for the Republicans.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,623 posts)By pulling the party to the right.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)So for those that believe as Mr. Durbin does, who gets sacrificed to bring in that center/center-right vote in then?
Women?
LGBTQ?
People of color?
Poor?
Someone has to be sacrificed. As Ive said before:
Compromise is great as long as you arent the one being compromised.
Where do we draw that line? At what point are we meeting them more than half way? When does that more than halfway mark become the new halfway mark that we have to meet next time?
I get we cannot expect everything all I once and I more than aware these things cost money.
I also know that having a population that is covered by healthcare, has all its citizens treated equally under the law and has access to free or reduced cost occupational or college education, is a more stable and money earning, tax paying, society that helps that nation prosper.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)And some of them are flaming dumpster fans.
It isn't a compromise to do what is best for the nation. What percentage of the people are these: Women? LGBTQ? People of color? Poor?
Two of those groups are over 50% of the people, and all totaled they are over 60%. You can seriously think the Dems are sacrificing 60% of the people to win 50+ % of the vote.