The Horrible Side-Effect of the War on Opioid Addiction

[MineralMan]

Yes, opioid addiction is a bad thing. Far too many people are addicted to such drugs, often without any medical need to be taking them. And yes, we need to find a way to decrease the number of addicted people. But, there's a real problem that is not going away:

Millions of people who suffer from severe chronic pain are caught up in the middle of this war. They need those pain medications to make their lives even somewhat livable. Their pain will not go away, but the fight against addiction is slowly, but surely, taking their medication away from them.

Doctors are under heavy pressure not to prescribe opioid pain meds. So much so that additional paperwork and hassle follows every prescription. Even when they know that a particular patient absolutely needs the medications to dull severe, life-altering pain, the pressure from government and others to decrease the number of prescriptions for it continues to grow.

There has to be a way found to make such medications available to those who suffer from intractable, unremitting pain, while still working on dealing with addiction by those who do not have such pain. Those who suffer are not responsible for the addiction, and should not have to suffer for that addiction problem. But, increasingly, they are being forced to suffer, due to efforts to reduce the number of those who are addicted.

I know people in that group, whose quality of life without adequate relief from pain is horrendous. Some can no longer get that relief any longer.

[Va Lefty]

1. You make an excellent point

In an attempt to stop people from abusing pain meds the majority of people who are not abusing are harmed. I had friend whose brother dislocated his shoulder this summer
He went to the emergency room and they would not give him anything for pain but Tylenol

[MineralMan]

2. That's troubling. In the meantime, my wife's dentist

gives her a prescription for an opioid pain reliever whenever she has any serious dental work. She doesn't fill it, since Advil works just fine.

[Ilsa]

45. And for some procedures and some people, Advil isn't enough.

The point is for the Rx to be for very short term use, say 24-48 hours, through the roughest patch post-procedure. Rest is often a big part of recovery, and if pain is interfering with that, then recovery will take much longer.

And pain really is a very subjective experience. Ask anyone who has spent a career giving pain relief and anesthesia to refheads. Their DNA says they really do suffer worse.

But I'm glad your spouse can get by with less.

[pnwmom]

8. Did they put the shoulder back in the socket?

If they did, then the pain should have been greatly relieved.

[Va Lefty]

12. Yes but I was surprised they wouldn't give him a script

Not like somebody complaining about back pain. Fairly straightforward

[TNNurse]

20. Actually after the joint (shoulder) is put back, it is sore.

I never knew anyone who needed anything but OTC pain meds after. I have seen it done in the ER and the patient's gets instant relief from the severe pain and smiles.

[Va Lefty]

39. Sounds like you know more about it than me

Maybe it wasn't out of line but sounded bad to me. Thanks for the info!

[davsand]

42. Mine was dislocated with three fractures. It still hurt after they put it back in socket.

It hurt a whole lot. I was chock full of injected pain killers when I left the ER, and it hurt. It hurt the next day, and the day after that too. Before I get dismissed on this, I've had an emergency C Section, a rictus sheath hematoma that my docs estimated held 20+ percent of my total blood volume, and a dry socket from dental surgery in my lifetime and NOTHING came close to the pain of that shoulder. I freaking drove HOME with that shoulder out of joint, and was awake when they put it back in place (Yeah, I screamed when they did that) but I still hurt after treatment.

They gave me an oxy scrip and a sling, then sent me home to wait to see the Orthopedic specialist. I hated the oxy because it made me itch, and I toughed it out with Tylenols and Advils until I got in to see the specialist a few days later. Can't speak for anybody else, but no, my pain was not gone after they put that shoulder back in socket. You gotta trust me on this.


Laura

[TNNurse]

89. You had fractures, that is a different situation

than a simple dislocation.

Fractures had a level of pain.

[loyalsister]

88. now you do

I have to be put under conscious sedation to put it back and my entire arm hurts terribly for days afterwards.

[potone]

3. Yes, this is very important.

But another drug that can be very helpful for chronic pain and does not have either the side effects or the risk of addiction associated with it is cannabis. Many people who live in states where it is legal have found that it helped them to wean themselves off of opiates and still have the pain relief that they need. This needs to be stated loudly and often. There is a safe alternative to opiates!

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

41. Not everybody . . .

. . . cares to be a pothead. My wife for instance, who suffers from chronic pain.

[davsand]

43. One serious misconception about Med MJ is that you are "stoned" all the time.

I'm sure that there are people who have med use cards that abuse it. That's pretty much human nature, sadly enough. However, the use of Marijuana for pain treatment is actually demonstrated to show pretty good pain control without the psychoactive effects that people have always associated with recreational consumption or the addictive problems of opiates. A legitimate dispensary can certainly help patients navigate that particular issue by selecting specific strains over others.

As for your wife, if it is her preference not to select one form of med over another, that is certainly her right as a patient. I would never presume get up in anybody's decisions about their own treatment plans.



Laura

[potone]

53. You must not know much...

about the types of cannabis that are available now. There are strains that do not have psychoactive effects but are very effective in pain management. I have used them as an alternative to opiates after a back injury, and they work, and the did not make me a "pothead." It is a pity that many people still think of cannabis in such ways; that is what prevents the government from approving research into its medical uses.

[stevenleser]

57. As opposed to opioids?

I am the squarest person around when it comes to drugs. I’ve never tried any recreational drug and never will.

But I have a herniated disc at C6-C7. It hasn’t acted up in about 4 years now and I am grateful for that, but when it does act up, I am prescribed Percocet, a muscle relaxant and one other drug I can remember. Anyone who takes those drugs is definitely fitting the definition of stoned when they take them. I hate taking them for that reason and can’t wait for each attack to end so I can stop.

But if NY state legalized pot, I will definitely try it for the very next attack. Will I prefer it to opioids? I have no idea, but I will find out, assuming I have another attack and assuming pot is legalized here.

[Coventina]

4. Even people suffering acute pain can't get the pain relief they need.

I had major abdominal surgery last year.
I was split from sternum to groin.

I wanted to die, the moment I woke up, I was in such excruciating pain.

I was beyond speech, just screaming, while my husband begged the nurses to do something for me.
Finally, the doctor OKed some morphine.

Every time it wore off, we had to go through the same thing.

When I finally got to go home, the doctor was very reluctant to prescribe anything for me.

"You really shouldn't be in that much pain!" she said.

Oh really? I was cut in half, and and my organs all rearranged, and that's not supposed to be painful?

(Finally, my intractable pain was found to have a source: a surgical staple that had not been removed!)

As a result, I will NEVER have major surgery again, until this opioid insanity has run its course.
I would rather die.

[pnwmom]

9. OTOH, your severe and intractable pain was a clue. If they had simply addressed it with

more painkillers, they might not have discovered the underlying cause for the continuing pain -- that surgical staple.

[Coventina]

10. True, but I don't understand why they couldn't be more sympathetic.

The doctor found it quite by accident, not from looking to solve my issue.

[pnwmom]

15. There was no excuse for their lack of sympathy. I'm sorry you had to go through that!

[Demsrule86]

13. My sis in law has terrible pain...arthritis...she used to take pain meds but now can't get

them. We are going to pain management so I hope they can help...but she has given up on life and wants to die...I don't care how many od it does not justify refusing to alleviate terrible pain which most people cannot live with.

[pnwmom]

16. Your sis in law has a different problem -- not a staple left in after surgery. n/t

[pnwmom]

24. Not at all. With the previous poster (the OP), I was pointing out that continuing pain meds

might have covered up a serious health situation that was causing her pain -- a staple in her abdomen that didn't belong there.

Arthritis is a completely different situation.

[Maraya1969]

25. OK I get it now. I'll just delete my post OK?

[Demsrule86]

71. It makes no difference. I fail to see why people should be denied medicine for pain because

people are making heroin...they are not abusing prescriptions...but making the stuff or buying it off the street...it is in areas like Ohio where people are feeling pretty hopeless...and making people suffer will not fix it.

[pnwmom]

72. I'm not saying that people with real pain should be denied pain medication.

But doctors shouldn't give pain meds to treat misplaced staples in abdomens. They should remove the source of the pain.

[Mariana]

75. They should do both.

This isn't a one-or-the-other situation. Pain from misplaced staples should be treated with pain meds, AND the source of the pain should be removed.

[pnwmom]

76. The only reason they discovered the staple was that they knew she shouldn't have continuing pain.

If they had just kept giving her pain meds, as she had requested, the meds would have hidden her problem. But the poster didn't say they withheld any pain med after they discovered there was a staple inside.

[TheFrenchRazor]

85. exactly, and quite often they won't/can't fix the problem OR give you pain relief; that is what

what infuriates me. they literally are just laughing in your face and telling you to suffer until you die; that is what it amounts to.

[Mariana]

52. If they hadn't assumed she was LYING about the pain

in order to get more painkillers, they probably would have discovered the underlying cause much sooner!

[dembotoz]

5. years ago my cancer ridden wife was prescibed some heavy duty pain killers...her mom told the doc

she was afraid her daughter might become addicted....

the ever patient doctor told her that the risk of addiction would truly be the least of her issues

another wake up call that perhaps my dear wife was not doing as well as i had hoped.

[Ligyron]

7. See, that's the thing right there.

There are far worse things than addiction to opiates, which is fairly harmless in and of itself.

Intractable pain, running out of money and going to jail come to mind.

[dembotoz]

11. sometimes a person just needs to be snowed

pretty damn simple

[TheFrenchRazor]

34. this, and throw in suicide. nt

[ehrnst]

6. See also: Prince.

[Demsrule86]

14. A big who cares. People who abuse drugs are playing with fire...their problem. It is unfair to deny

pain relief to millions because of other people's addictions.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

117. FYI

Prince had a hip replacement and was in chronic pain due to lingering hip problems. He was not “just an addict” than anyone else who suffers from chronic pain.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/arts/music/friends-sought-help-for-princes-addiction-lawyer-says.html

[Demsrule86]

121. He could have gotten drugs legally for his pain...celebrities can do this...unlike my sister in law

and his death is an excuse to deny millions access to life saving pain drugs. Here in Ohio people make Heroin.

[Horse with no Name]

17. In my job

I see this every day.
I also know from multiple meetings that I have attended, it is only going to get worse for the chronic pain patients.
While we have the capacity to treat some of this pain with intrathecal pain pumps, there are not many practitioners who are willing to manage the pain medication in those pumps and that number is dwindling at a rapid pace.
We've actually had the discussion at work since we deal with a significant population of chronic pain patients that we expect the suicide rates to start increasing in this demographic.

[TheFrenchRazor]

33. you said it. nt

[Thirties Child]

18. My 79-year-old sister has unremitting pain in her lower back.

She has Parkinson's, s-curve scoliosis and spinal stenosis. She tries to do what exercise she can, uses her walker to walk her dog around the block every day. When she went to the ER last week the doctor told her that her opiate--hydrocone--couldn't touch her pain. He was right, it doesn't. He also said current laws wouldn't allow him to prescribe the 5mg hydrocodone she's taking. He wants her to visit a pain clinic that he promised will help her. Apparently all pain clinics aren't the same. The last pain clinic doctor prescribed botox injections in her spine, injections that ended up running out her nose. That was scary. This time the ER sent her home after a morphine injection, told her there are worse things than addiction. Wise doctor.

[TheFrenchRazor]

102. i hope she has gotten relief; those hurdles are put there precisely so that many people will just gi

just give up trying to get any pain relief. it is bullsh*t in my opinion. who do these people think they are, that they have the right to tell other people they may not have relief for their pain? they remind me of religious fundamentalists, who try to force their religion on everybody else, because it's "for their own good." the bottom line is that they do not respect the rights of other people to control their own lives.

[Thirties Child]

127. You nailed it.

I hadn't thought of the comparison to fundamentalism, but you're right. My sister is a Christian but doesn't try to convince anyone else. She's widowed now, and, ironically, her husband thought it was up to him to save everyone. Mostly me.

[pwb]

19. The Vetrans Administration is taking away pain meds from Veterans.

Making them jump through hoops to get them. If they test positive for marijuana use they take them away cold turkey. Unelected bureaucrats at CDC and DEA telling doctors how to practice medicine. It's like refer madness in the 1920s. Jeff Sessions orders. Trumps people are hurting so many people, even veterans. Stupid is rampant in this Administration.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

37. PWB, the shame is their voices are not being heard...

by the public. Just like millions of others in our society suffering in many ways, their voices are not heard loud enough to enrage the public.

As long as we continue to have compliant news media and allow big money from corporations, massive lobbying, and the mega-rich's funds into politics, I'm afraid nothing will change. We need to find ways to amplify those voices!

[Ligyron]

47. They sure are.

But it started way before Sessions got in although he probably made it worse if there was any possible way for him to do so.

The VA is going be responsible for many deaths and paying for a lot more funerals if something isn't done.

Ridiculous.

[Crunchy Frog]

49. It predates Trump, and is largely bipartisan, sadly.

I got treated like absolute garbage 2+ years ago when I had a kidney stone.

[pwb]

62. Some, maybe, but the DEA and CDC guidelines were amended in 2017.

To refuse pain meds and even meds for PTSD like Valium because of occasional marijuana use. It's trump and sessions who did that not democrats. They both do it doesn't quit fit in this one scenario at least.
Non elected bureaucrats, pulling stings, treating doctors like puppets and they are running scared their license to practice will be taken away. Do no harm, has been taken away from doctors, now they do great harm and may even be causing suicides because of it.
Welcome to the new Veterans Administration. Dr Goebbels would be proud of our Nazi and confederate loving administration.

[Crunchy Frog]

91. Could you point me to a source for these guideline amendments?

I searched extensively and could only find CDC guideline amendments from 2016 recommending against testing for marijuana use, though though many practitioners seem to be ignoring that. I couldn't find anything about any official changes since Trump took office.

I was only pointing out the bipartisan nature because I began to heavily research the issue in 2016, months before the election, and it upset me enough to impact my enthusiasm for the election.

So I would be interested in seeing a source.

[pwb]

92. Happy to. Search cdc opiate guidelines.

It comes right up. 2017.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. Okay, I searched it extensively, adding 2017 to the search terms

and couldn't find anything on new guidelines relating to cannabis use.

Could you give me an actual link, along with maybe a block quote?

I'm genuinely interested in this issue, and if this is true, would like to see corroboration.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but am just looking for accurate information.

[pwb]

123. Sure, search V A opiate use and marijuana.

Lots of different articles from numerous sources explain pain meds being taken away from veterans because of occasional pot use. Not sure how it relates to civilian population but I would bet similar cdc and DEA rules apply. Doctors are being put in a hard place over this even in medical marijuana states. It's hurting a lot of veterans.

[Crunchy Frog]

124. Okay, so it's the VA rather than the CDC.

That makes alot more sense.

[pwb]

125. The v a following cdc and DEA guidelines.

Which means trump and sessions and their appointees. It's a sign of things to come in the private sector I think. Your welcome.

[Crunchy Frog]

126. Link?

Because I honestly couldn't find anything at all about any new CDC recs in that area.

[pwb]

128. I have tried to guide you but you need to look yourself.

If you don't believe me I'm sorry but I never lie. I am using a new I pad and haven't learned to send links yet. But my searches clearly say rules from 2017. Good talk.

[Crunchy Frog]

129. I did look myself.

Using the search terms that you provided, and variants. I spent way too much time looking through long documents, as well as shorter outlines. I didn't find it.

Have you tried holding your finger on it, hitting copy, then holding your finger down again and hitting paste?

I'm going to continue to be sceptical about this claim until I see corroboration.

[pwb]

130. O k.

Some posts below even speak of it. See ya then.

[pwb]

131. I use google, cdc opiate rules 2017

So many articles come up. I'm an old guy with a new I pad my daughter bought me. I will ask her how to link next time she visits. I even forgot what you are looking for?. Cdc what? If it's just new rules they are there?

[Crunchy Frog]

132. I've found the CDC guidelines.

I just haven't seen any corroboration for the claim that they recommend cutting off opioids in patients who test positive for marijuana, which is what you claimed in your initial post.

I also haven't seen any evidence of significant changes in guidelines since last year, i.e. before the current president took office, hence my initial statement that the current opioid hysteria appears to be bipartisan.

Hope that helps.

[Maraya1969]

21. Here is the review that I left on Google and FB for a pharmacy I went to last week

I have been on pharmacological opiate pain management for a while for a serious and very painful condition. My usual pharmacy who had a prescription on file for me called and told me that they had run out of my medicine and could not get any until over the weekend so I had to find another pharmacy to fill it. I had seen San Carlos Pharmacy when I was in the plaza for something else and thought I would call them.

When I called I asked them if they had this medicine in stock. I was told that they could not tell me over the phone and that I would have to come down in person before they would tell me if it was in stock or not! I thought this shady but I said, "OK" and went there and gave them the prescription. They asked me what other medications I was on, (they can easily find this on the computer as all pharmacies are connected now), they asked me if I ever used any creams or other methods of dealing with pain, (Can you imagine if I needed an antibiotic and they tried to suggest that it was unnecessary?) They asked what the condition was and when I just gave the diagnosis of what all the MRI's, Cat scans and X-Rays concluded ( and the need of a wheelchair sometimes and scooter to get around big stores), she had the nerve to say, "So back pain". I became very suspicious of their motive for asking me all of these questions and it became obvious after a short while that they were treating me like a common drug addict. Then I sat for 20 minutes after which they came out and said they would not fill my prescription. They had the medication but they would not fill my prescription.

This behavior is entirely unacceptable. These people were impersonating doctors and I question whether they were getting a kick out of acting so important. In fact my prescription was written by a very well respected doctor in this area.

Their behavior was rude, dismissive and unprofessional. I felt humiliated and angry with the treatment I was given at this place and I will never set foot in it again.

[pnwmom]

26. I know that pharmacy chains are connected, but I've never heard that different chains

had access to the same computer records. Maybe that was part of the problem?

Did you ask if your pharmacy could do the calling for you? When I've needed refills and my pharmacy doesn't have the med in stock, they'll call around to see if someone else has it.

I agree that pharmacists shouldn't be trying to practice medicine. That's not their job.

[Maraya1969]

55. I use a small pharmacy that is not a chain. And yes all your drug purchased are put in a data

base that all doctors and, I'm almost positive, pharmacies can access.

This is FL so it is extra strict

[TheFrenchRazor]

31. i hear you; this is total BS. let the anti-opiate fanatics pay the bills of people whom they would d

deny necessary pain medication for, so that they can not even function and survive. i can not believe this war-on-drugs hysteria; some people just can not pass up an opportunity to tell other people how to live their own lives.

[thbobby]

23. Very complicated issue

I have fairly severe stenosis and am constantly in pain. I am also an addict (non using, but once an addict, always an addict in my case).

I was prescribed oxycodone by a neurologist for my pain. I abused them. It scared the shit out of me. A month's supply would last a week. And the pain was still there, even in the week I had them.

Opiod abuse for me is a mental addiction. It is not a physical addiction and I do not want it to become one. I quit taking oxycodone after 3 months. I now use ibuprofen. It helps, but I am concerned about constant use.

I suspect many have my condition. Maybe to a lesser extent, maybe not. But, use of opiods does lead to resistance to them and lead to larger dosage. By the time most people know they are prone to addiction, they have been addicted a long time. The power of denial is so great.

I cannot give anyone meaningful advice on this. I just know that in my case pain and ibuprofen are better than addiction or overdose.

[TheFrenchRazor]

30. re your last sentence: let that pain go on literally non-stop for years, and then get back to us.

and regardless of what you choose, everyone should have the right to make that choice for themselves. i think your case is a little extreme; a lot of people can take these meds appropriately for years, without abuse, and it makes the difference between them having a life and not having a life.

[thbobby]

32. I do not understand you

I made very clear in my post that I was only talking about myself and that I could not give others advice. My pain has been constant for over five years and was intermittent before that. What is your point?

[Maraya1969]

56. I think you should be able to access free drug counseling if you need to take opiate pills

and are an addict who has a great chance of abusing them. There are things you can do to stop yourself from doing those things. I am so aware of when I take my meds that I would not abuse them. I also know that if I am not in pain and would want to take a pill that is a bad sign and I better not do it.

It is just a damn shame that the only thing people like you can do is live in pain. I am willing to be that in other countries they have programs set up to help people with your background deal with taking opiate medication.

[redstatebluegirl]

27. I have been saying this to friends since this started.

I don't need mine all the time, but there are times when my pain is intolerable and I need those drugs I need them to be available. Fortunately I have a high pain tolerance according to my doctors, and I have never abused those drugs, but when I need them, I need them to function.

[smirkymonkey]

28. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be in such unrelenting pain and not being able to get

any relief from it. There has to be a better way. It is one of my greatest fears. I am actually allergic to opiates, so even if a doctor did give them to me I couldn't take them, but to withhold them from someone who is genuinely suffering is just cruel.

Something has to be done. People can't go on suffering like this.

[TheFrenchRazor]

29. word; i am shocked at the callousness of people who smugly tell severe chronic pain sufferers to jus

just suck it up and suffer until they die, or take some aspirin, or get their health problems fixed, which may not be possible (medically or financially). these people really need to mind their own business; they have no right to tell other people that they may not obtain relief for their pain.

[Aristus]

51. I don't tell my patients anything in a smug manner.

And I don't know any medical providers who say "Just suffer until you die". And neither do you. Real life is not TV, or wherever you got the 'just suffer until you die' thing.

Just as chronic pain is almost always multifactorial in etiology, the treatment is often multipolar. Oral, intramuscular or IV medications, physical therapy, orthopedic monitoring, therapeutic massage, physiatry, etc.

Not every patient wants to make the effort to do those things. Most just want to pop a pill and be done with it. That's an unrealistic, and certainly un-pragmatic approach to the treatment of chronic pain.

We are medical providers. We are charged with stemming and reversing the effects of an epidemic. I wonder what names people would call us if we did nothing during just such an epidemic...

[Maraya1969]

58. I have been to physical therapy at least 8 times, I use heat, I have done holistic

treatments such as cupping, Gua Sha, reflexology, massage, expensive supplements

and I am still in pain. It is one thing to do something to stop an epidemic and it is another to regard people who want opiate medication with disdain and suspicion. Think of how that person feels.

And I understand that you have to be careful but drug tests and the person's diagnosis should be quite enough

[TheFrenchRazor]

60. doesn't matter how diplomatic you are, the result is the same; i hope you know that. many of us

have tried everything possible (financially and logistically) to manage our pain, and yet still live with severe, debilitating pain day after day, year after year. you say you are charged with fighting this epidemic, but the FIRST responsibility of the medical profession is to treat disease and reduce suffering; i understand that doctors can't cure everyone and make people live forever, but they can damn sure not DENY PEOPLE RELIEF FOR THEIR PAIN. what the hell kind of sense does that make? if the government/doctors are going to actively stand in the way of people obtaining the medicine that they need to be able to function and survive, then they (gov't/doctors) can pay the bills of those people for the rest of their lives, so they can just curl up on the couch in a fetal position forever.

[Aristus]

68. As I'm sure you're aware, opioid medications cause tolerance.

Needing to take more and more of the same medication in order to obtain the same level of pain relief. Until eventually, they don't work at all. Continuing to take opioids after that can cause what's called narcotic hyperalgesia, meaning the medications actively make the pain worse, rather than better.

This is one of the many reasons why opioids are no longer indicated for long-term treatment of pain. Chronic pain is now treated with a variety of medications, anti-depressants a lot of them, that were not originally indicated for pain treatment, but have been found to relieve pain in many sufferers without causing tolerance and dependence.

It's a vicious cycle; chronic pain can cause depression, and depression can worsen chronic pain. What anti-depressants do is interrupt that cycle, and offer some relief to pain patients. These medications may not make the patient completely pain free. And we tell our patients that a complete absence of pain may well be an unrealistic goal. Informing our patients of the possiility of some residual pain, and attempting to manage expectations, may be the source of your "just suffer until you die" perception. Patients hear what they want to hear.

[TheFrenchRazor]

80. i'll leave it at this: there are worse things than "tolerance"/addiction. if you don't know this, yo

you really should not be in the medical profession.

[Aristus]

83. I tend to get the "You should not be in the medical profession" most often from

drug-seekers.

Just saying...

[TheFrenchRazor]

86. yeah, i am a life-long non-drinker, non-smoker, vegetarian, non-drug user, athlete, etc.,

perhaps your imaginings about who is a "drug-seeker" are a bit skewed. based on what you just said, i know for a fact that you should not be in the medical profession; you on the other hand, know absolutely nothing about me.

[former9thward]

100. Your gross and undeserved insults to a poster you don't know

tells us everything.

[TheFrenchRazor]

104. really? said poster call me a "drug seeker;" i'm sorry if i didn't take that very well. i'm guessin

guessing that you are among those anti-pain relief crusaders who think that it is your right to decide who will and won't be allowed to have relief from their pain. that tells us everything. we can only hope that you develop a long-lasting extremely painful disease and suffer horrific pain for years until the mercy of the grave finally claims you.

[former9thward]

109. And a good day to you too!

[n2doc]

35. And none of this shit is going to do a damn thing about the addicts

They already get theirs illegally. They will continue to do so, or switch to other illegal drugs like Heroin.

It is the poor damned sick honest people who get hit the hardest.

[TheFrenchRazor]

106. this too. as usual. nt

[Maeve]

36. They keep trying to find a 'one response for all' solution

And that is never going to work. I read down thru this thread before answering because my case is different. And DIFFERENT is the POINT.
I just spent the last week in the hospital (emergency gallbladder removal). I got the pain meds I needed and constant attention; I got meds ahead of time when the pain was peaking and was in and out for a while. When surgery was over, I noticed that the pain meds were giving me funny waking-dreams and asked to get off narcotics asap. They dropped me down and I went home just taking regular tylenol. Some pain, but I'd rather that than scenes behind my eyelids like the crap anti-drug movies they used to show us in school. BUT THAT IS ME. I can't take percoset; one of my nurses said she can't take vicoden--they just don't work for us. Some wouldn't be sitting up without tylenol-3 at least at this point. And I have known folks that would have killed to get the drugs I turned down, either for the pain relief or for the high.
EVERYONE has a different constitution and 'one-size-fits-all' laws just force more suffering. I don't know if there is an answer, but we have to keep trying to working. For all our sakes.

[barbtries]

38. we have a family member

addicted to heroin, and this is where it started. it is tragic and the ultimate outcome is unclear. this person has suffered from chronic pain conditions since adolescence.

i don't see how the government can track every pill, then why not every bullet? why not every gun? how much opioid addiction would not ever happen if all those gun violence victims remained healthy?

why make war on pot when it is the most benign possible way which can also be extremely effective for people with chronic pain? nobody ever died from a marijuana overdose. over time the opioids may still be necessary, but this could be a bridge.

also acupuncture. I have to pay out of my HSA for my acupuncture treatments. it is so much cheaper than neurosurgery and a lifetime on meds. Why won't insurance companies pay for this alternative? it won't work for everyone, but it did work for me.

greed and corruption have deteriorated our quality of life on so many levels in this country. i pretty much blame it all on republicans. soulless, cruel, terrible people.

[catbyte]

40. Amen, MineralMan

Those medications allowed me to work full-time while taking care of my dad dying of ALS, nursing my mom through dementia, and my husband during his final fight with Type I DM. I've lived with incurable chronic severe pain down my right sciatic nerve since 1993. I was on Oxycontin & Fentanyl lolipops for breakthrough pain for almost 20 years until I retired. Retiring allowed me to dial back my pain meds to the point where I don't have to take either one of them anymore.

They were lifesavers. Without them, I would've either been curled up on my couch in the fetal position 24/7, sobbing, looking for relief on the street, or, more likely, I would've ended the pain myself, permanently. The DEA is going after legitimate doctors along with the charlatans much to the detriment of legitimate pain patients, forcing doctors to prescribe dangerous anti-seizure drugs & NSAIDs instead of the much-safer opioids. When I didn't need those strong meds anymore, my doctor tapered me off of them over a month & I experienced no withdrawal symptoms and no desire to take either of them. The pain must've soaked up the meds because I don't remember ever feeling "high" while taking them.

I'm afraid what people desperate for pain relief will do if the appropriate medications are denied them. Most likely just end the pain permanently and they will be the biggest victims of this "war."

[TheFrenchRazor]

46. word. nt

[theaocp]

44. Cannabis butter/oil is a great substitute.

I suffer from back pain and headaches and avoid opiates. The above help beyond measure.

[TheFrenchRazor]

101. unfortunately, most of us live in states where cannabis is illegal, so that is not an option. nt

[WhiteTara]

48. I'm one of those in chronic pain.

I have been really fortunate that my doctors understand that without meds, I would not be able to function. I'm having hip replacement in a month and hope that my need for drugs will soon end. But meanwhile, I take them as needed.

[Lucinda]

50. I am sitting here severely under-medicated because of the pressure on doctors

It really shouldn't be that hard to sort out medical need, vs people who take it otherwise. My x-rays show two hips with ZERO functional joints. My need for pain relief isn't really debatable.

And Kratom needs to remain legal. It is an excellent way to shift opioid addictions (though it needs to be monitored to reduce addiction safely.)

[Nevernose]

54. Ppl can always numb pain with alcohol

That’s what I’ve been told by medical professionals.

Alcohol kills 100,000 Americans a year — not including drunk driving and other accidents. We’re not locking up drunks in prison for decades at a time, though, nor do we have people in bars dropping dead because their liquor was laced with wood grain alcohol as a means of stretching the quantity, nor is liquor the only viable option because beer is illegal (codeine vs heroin).

[TheFrenchRazor]

61. it's insane, but i guarantee that people have had to do that. i have, even though alcohol makes me i

makes me ill (and stupid). a small dose of tramadol or codeine, etc. at least takes the edge off my pain, and yet still allows me to function, and doesn't give me a hangover/headache).

[Mariana]

67. A lot of people still like to pretend

that alcohol is not really a drug, that it isn't really addictive, that alcoholics aren't really drug addicts, etc.

Funny how when the numbers of overdoses are reported about this "opioid epidemic" they never tell us how many of them were drinking and taking the opioid at the same time. I bet it's quite a few, because that is a particularly deadly combination.

[airplaneman]

59. Good OP MineralMan

So many people seem to think if you take opiates you must be an addict.
Some facts that many are unaware of:
2/3 of opiate deaths are intravenous drug users.
90% who take opiates never get addicted.
Only select areas of the country are experience an increase in opiate deaths often the same ones with the most serious economic downturns.
All states that have legal cannabis have seen a drop in opiate deaths.
For those that do have good pain relief with opiates it is often the difference in being able to function or not and alternative really don't exist.
There is a clear link between suicide deaths and a lack of pain management in older americans.
Opiates are a fairly inexpensive method of pain management with other options being extremely expensive and un affordable for many.
-Airplane

[no_hypocrisy]

63. I know such a woman.

She fell on her back and had unrelenting pain. Had back surgery which was botched. Greater unrelenting pain.

Pain medication severely restricted. She doesn't breathe. She moans. She cries. She grits her teeth. And she's permanently crippled because the pain restricted her movements when she could have received physical therapy in the beginning.

[TheFrenchRazor]

98. i hear you; the pain itself often has multiple negative health effects - reduced mobility, depressio

depression, inability to work or accomplish basic household tasks, trouble sleeping, irritability, etc. i am so sick of the self-righteous anti-pain relief crusaders; they have no right to tell other people that they are not allowed to have relief from their pain.

[Man_Bear_Pig]

64. I would think the drug companies would fight these crack downs.

Less prescriptions, or almost none as a knee-jerk response, must be cutting into profits severely.

[MoonRiver]

65. When my hips and femurs were disintegrating,

following cancer treatment, but before I was finally accurately diagnosed, oxycontin was the ONLY thing that allowed me to even get out of bed. As soon as I had and recovered from my two hip replacements, I was able to easily go off them. Yes, the prospect of people like me who really can't make it without those meds is alarming. When one's body is falling apart, there really aren't many alternatives.

[aikoaiko]

66. People who suffer from pain and their advocates warned about this for a long time

One of the worst parts of the restrictions is that you have to show up to pick-up your Rx, but if you're in too much pain you can't even get out of bed so you lie there in pain. At that point you have to hope you know someone who can get you black market opiods because the medical profession won't help.

[TheFrenchRazor]

110. oh, quit yer whining, you druggie. i'm sorry, of course that was sarcasm; a lot of people really

really couldn't care less if the quality of life of chronic pain sufferers is utterly destroyed; as long as it gives them some puritanical sense of self-righteousness.

[NNadir]

69. My mother in law, now 80, was one of the last people in America to contract Polio.

The post-polio syndrome was well known years ago, but as these people are dying off, it's less and less understood by younger doctors.

Her pain is constant, and yes, she is addicted to opioids, which is fine with me, if not my sisters-in-law. She's in an assisted living facility and thus it is unlikely she'll overdose.

I've been watching this hullabaloo with interest and concern. There is a middle ground somewhere, and we definitely need to find it.

[williesgirl]

70. My daughter is one of those chronic pain patients. What she

is going through is terrible. Both the DEA and the State are all over her doctor to get her completely off her medications. She's on Disability as well.

If the Feds would just legalize Medical marijuana nationwide, she would benefit immensely. Even if our State would legalize it, she'd lose her Disability if she used it.

[snooper2]

73. Sure is something unique about Americans, have more pain than EVERYONE ELSE in the World

Must be because we drive farther distances or something. Maybe better seats in cars?


"Americans are in more pain than any other population around the world. At least, that's the conclusion that can be drawn from one startling number from recent years: Approximately 80 percent of the global opioid supply is consumed in the United States.

Pain drugs are the second-largest pharmaceutical class globally, after cancer medicines. "There was about 300 million pain prescriptions written in 2015," Irina Koffler, senior analyst, specialty pharma, Mizuho Securities USA, told CNBC.

The 300 million pain prescriptions equal a $24 billion market, Koffler said, but it's not a market evenly divided around the globe. Rampant use of opioids in the United States, which represents only 5 percent of the global population, points to a larger divide between affluent nations and the rest of the world when it comes to prescription painkillers.

"If you include Canada and Western Europe, [consumption of global opioid supply] increases to 95 percent, so the remaining countries only have access to about 5 percent of the opioid supply," said Vikesh Singh, assistant professor of medicine and director of the Pancreatitis Center at Johns Hopkins University.

In most countries, the use of opioid prescriptions is limited to acute hospitalization and trauma, such as burns, surgery, childbirth and end-of-life care, including patients with cancer and terminal illnesses. But in the United States, every adult in America can have "a bottle of pills and then some," U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy has said publicly."

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html

"Americans consume approximately 99 percent of one specific opioid, called hydrocodone, a powerful painkiller. The Drug Enforcement Agency reclassified hydrocodone from a schedule III to a schedule II drug in 2014 because of its potentially high risk for misuse and abuse. "

[WinkyDink]

84. Or, the rest of the world's population suffers more in silence.

[former9thward]

103. No evidence of that at all.

[Crunchy Frog]

93. Hydrocodone isn't prescribed outside the United States, so that's really disingenuous.

In many developing countries, people die of cancer, screaming in agony because there is practically no availability of pain medications at all. I honestly think there are some people who would like to see that same situation in this country.

As far as comparisons with other developed countries, Americans work longer hours and have less time off, including less time off to recover from illnesses and injuries, and less ability to quit working when it's indicated due to a medical condition. Americans also have less access to preventative care and early treatment that might prevent the development of debilitating and painful conditions.

There are some very plausible reasons why Americans might be in more pain that Europeans, and it's not because we're all a bunch of wusses, or druggies.

[Sgent]

116. We are also older as a society (our baby boom was earlier)

have more vets, etc.

[Crunchy Frog]

118. More gunshot injuries. n/t

[TheFrenchRazor]

119. so because some people abuse drugs, then everyone else can just suffer until they die? is that what

you're saying? otherwise i don't know what your point is. the number of americans who abuse drugs is completely irrelevant to the fact that there are people who suffer severe chronic pain and need these medicines to be able to function and survive. who are you to tell them that they will just have to suffer to to satisfy your sense of self-righteousness? are you going to pay their bills so they will no longer have to function and make a living? yeah, i didn't think so, so maybe you should just attend to your own business and let other people manage their own lives.

[DVRacer]

74. I deal with being treated as a criminal every month!

I have to face the VA pharmacy every month and get treated like crap due my meds. My doctor there is wonderful and overall my care is excellent, but after 9 major surgeries and lots of hardware I hurt. My spine has taken most of the work but at least I can now walk again also my left knee has been replaced. I suffer from severe nerve damage all over due to my very bad I had while deployed overseas.

My doctor is forced by rules to only write my prescription for 30 days so it’s a viscous cycle. He writes it transmits it to pharmacy down the hall. I go check in get a 5 minute lecture on only using as prescribed, never sharing and the penalty if caught selling every month. Then the pharmacist comes to the window with my meds holds it behind the glass and says before handing this to you I want you to go to labs for urinalysis. So far it’s been 45 minutes to an hour, so I have to check in at labs wait 10-20 minutes then go pee in a cup with someone watching. Go back to pharmacy wait for results from urinalysis another 30 minutes. Then get my meds and leave.

I tried the mail out pharmacy last month when it didn’t arrive I called and was told oh they won’t mail it until you come in for labs aka urinalysis. So that’s what I go through every month.

[iscooterliberally]

77. As adults over the age of 21 we ought to be able to buy pain pills.

We ought to be able to buy pain pills on our own without having to ask for a doctor's permission. We can already buy tobacco, alcohol, motor vehicles and combat rifles. Instead, the government has pulled the safer drugs away and let the drug cartels flood our neighborhoods with heroin and fentanyl and who knows what else. I know very well how addictive pain medication is. I have had all sorts of injuries from dislocated shoulders to multiple fractures. I have been shot up with the strongest opiates by doctors and have had all sorts of percocet and vicodin prescriptions over the course of my life. People who of have real and chronic pain should not be cut off, but neither should people who have become addicted. We have a false sense of morality when it comes to taking drugs. Drugs aren't going to go away because we prohibit them or restrict access. All that does is cause even more problems. Our drug laws were meant to hurt people not help them. Our drug laws are the cause of of this crisis and need to be changed. We need to treat people as adults and with compassion, not derision. Taking a drug is morally neutral act and should not be considered a crime.

[MineralMan]

78. I see your point, but know that such a thing is not

going to happen. Due to the risks of opioid use, there's no chance it's going to be available for self-prescription, and probably shouldn't.

That said, I am not in favor of drug use being criminalized for users.

That creates something of a dilemma, I know, since people who cannot get pharmaceutical pain meds will opt for street meds, as they do now.

While you may be able to self-prescribe safely for your own use, the same is not true for most people.

[iscooterliberally]

79. I agree that self-prescription isn't going to happen.

Unfortunately this opiate crisis isn't going to end until our drug laws are changed. People who cannot safely self-prescribe aren't made any better off with street drugs, so these new restrictions are only exacerbating the problem. We could do so much better, but the ones making all the money off of the way things are these days aren't about to let that happen. I think a lot less people would be dying if we did things differently. Portugal has the right idea.

[Major Nikon]

97. I think there should be prescriptions for recreational drug use

...to include opioids.

If people are going to do them anyway, it's far better to have them under a doctor's care then to force them onto the black market.

[TheFrenchRazor]

81. i agree 100%. nt

[lovemydogs]

82. I live with chronic pain

Among other things, I suffer from Fibromyalgia and Restless Leg.
My Restless leg is almost at severe.
I take Tramadol (Ultram) and have for many years.
It is a controlled substance. I have to call every month for refill and it is frustrating because sometimes it does not get called on the date I need it and I suffer all night long.
Severe Restless Leg is the perfect torture. It can drive you mad.

But, I don't have withdrawls from not having it. I just have my legs go nuts.
If I was addicted to this I would be taking more then my dose. I have taken the right dose, as prescribed for over 10 years.

I personally would love to not have to take it. I would love to have regular legs and nerves in my legs. But, that is not the case and it does run in my family

[TheFrenchRazor]

87. what?? you mean you haven't upped your dose every day, turned to a life of crime, and become a menac

a menace to society??? sorry, just kidding. some people here think that you should just suffer to make them feel better.

[Mariana]

122. Most people who take these meds are like you.

Some people who drink become alcoholics, but most do not. It's the same with people who take pain meds.

[loyalsister]

90. I think "addiction" is not well understood

Addiction in the form of a higher tolerance and illness upon withdrawal is not necessarily the same as a situation where a person will blow up their lives for a fix. I have a friend who goes to a pain clinic where her consumption is carefully monitored.
It seems to me that an understanding of addiction as a physical phenomenon that can be managed could help. I think that getting over the judgement and providing an opportunity for people other than those who go to pain clinics to maintain an functional addiction could be a better way. Monitoring dosage and keeping the criminal element out would keep people who are physically dependent safer. It's unrealistic here, but Portugal did it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/05/why-hardly-anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/?utm_term=.c38be02c55c5

[Crunchy Frog]

94. Physical dependency isn't even the same thing as addiction.

And it occurs with plenty of other medications as well, including the "safe" pharmaceuticals, like antidepressants.

[loyalsister]

95. That's what I was getting at

"Addiction" is used to describe a combination of physical tolerance/dependence and the more psychologically driven "needs." Since each can exist without the other, it is really not a very useful word.

[Major Nikon]

99. Physical dependence is more inclusive

The other side of the coin is many things are classified as "addictions" which aren't really addictions. Sex and food aren't addictions, and neither are cannabis or video games.

[TheFrenchRazor]

105. i think those classifications are highly debatable; the bottom line is that it really doesn't matter

what you call it, people should have the right to not be prevented from obtaining relief from severe chronic pain. if that isn't a basic human right, i don't know what is.

[Major Nikon]

107. I would go one step farther in that people should be allowed full control over their own bag of meat

Trying to protect people from themselves gets to the point of diminishing returns very quickly.

[TheFrenchRazor]

111. not sure what you mean by meat, but i probably agree. nt

[Major Nikon]

114. You aren't truly free if you can't do what you want with your own body

[TheFrenchRazor]

120. agreed; there are far too many people who don't know how to mind their own business. nt

[ghostsinthemachine]

108. I'm one of them people.

No meds and I'm dead five days later. Tried most everything including two operations, but nothing works. Morphine 15mg twice a day and Percocet, 3 times a day.

The thing is, now, thanks to the new rules, I have to visit my doctor monthly for a refill. That's crazy. Seems pretty profitable for doctors.

I also use cannabis, but the notion that anyone can stop pain using cannabis instead of opiates is crazy. I take less, usually not even the daily dose.

[TheFrenchRazor]

112. but, but, aren't you afraid you'll get addicted?? i'm sure you're more afraid of dying in extreme pa

extreme pain, and i would be too. some people here are living in fantasy land, and they really need to mind their own business. depending on the severity of it, chronic pain can be far more damaging than "addiction."

[WinstonSmith00]

113. Drug addiction is a medical problem

Not a crime probably. Having war on our own citizens only increases the dangers to society.

We need to start with honest education and safer alternatives.

[Locut0s]

115. Legalise all drugs. Addiction is about pain, not drugs...

If they suddenly made heroin legal tomorrow do people really think tons of people would suddenly go "you know what? I've always wanted to try heroin and now I can". Bullshit. Addiction is NOT about the drugs. It's about the person. It's about pain.

Emotional pain or physical pain, left untreated you are going to seek out something to dull it. For physical pain sometimes the right choice are heavy duty pain killers. Especially chronic or end of life pain. It's simply cruel to deny these people treatment.

With emotional pain it's more complex. The same medications that take away physical pain will numb emotional pain too. But long run its going to harm more than help. But this isn't a problem of the drugs. It's a mental health crisis. And needs to be treated exactly as such.

Legalise all the drugs because keeping them illegal does none of us any good. The billions spent on the war on drugs has lead to far more death than if the drugs had been legal, regulated, and the money spent on rehabilitation.

This is about compassion. On BOTH SIDES! Compassion for those in need of the pain killers and compassion for those abusing them. Because both are terribly served right now by the status quo. The drug addicts are going to get their hands on whatever substance they can to numb their mind. It doesn't mater how much money you pour into making it illegal. All you are doing in the long run is punishing those who actually need the drugs. And by spending so much money and time making the drugs illegal you create a stigma for the drug user that makes it next to impossible for them to get clean.

[Jeffereybuckley]

133. I'm strongly convinced that additional paperwork isn't excess.

Perhaps there's common sense in your suggestion, but it seems to me that the procedure for obtaining such drugs should remain as strict as it is now. How can we reduce the number of drug addicts if getting opioids would become as easy as sweets in a candy store? I understand people who suffer from such pain and understand why using drugs for them is a necessity. However, I'm strongly convinced that additional paperwork isn't excess.
According to Addiction Resource and The Justice Research and Statistics Association, a huge amount of drug addicted people are people who use prescribed opioid drugs.

[marble falls]

134. You mean like prohibition, where more alcohol was used than before or after? Ironically...

Jeff Buckley's dad Tim died of an overdose at a time of extreme narcotics control.

[gopiscrap]

135. welcome to DU