A 12 gauge shotgun

[SHRED]

If having a weapon for home defense is your thing then there is none better.

Why do we allow weapons of war in on our society?

[Best_man23]

1. Especially a pump action shotgun

The racking sound is unmistakable and gives all but the most deranged minds pause.

[NewDem17]

19. That's false

Seriously that's some gun store stuff there.

Unless you've been around a shotgun you won't recognize the racking, and it's not loud enough to be heard outside your house by someone wanting to break in.

[Jim Beard]

34. I have two twelve guage semi automatics and it can definitely be heard.

[linuxman]

57. LOL.

[Man_Bear_Pig]

2. A lot of people, who know firearms, just started grinning from ear to ear.

12-Gauge shotgun you say? Saiga-12 it is then.

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. Yeah, a Saiga-12 would be great...

...if you don't mind not having much of a house left when you're done defending it.

[Iggo]

5. Mmf...unh...unh....Saiga...unh...unh...mmf...

[guillaumeb]

8. An excellent soundtrack.

And comment.

[LexVegas]

11. JFC.

[Marengo]

47. The Vepr 12 is superior IMO.

[aikoaiko]

49. How so?

I'm open.

[Marengo]

54. Better build quality in general, mag well, 1.5 mm receiver, seems better thought out if that makes..

Sense.

[Iggo]

74. Uh...uh..Vepr...oh god...oh...god...YES...YES...YES...

AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!.....

[onethatcares]

3. because some folks get chubbies

when spewing out many bullets
but what do I know?

I'm just a carpenter.

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. Not everyone can handle a 12 gauge

They're heavy and defense rounds can kick like a mule. But you're right in any case. You don't need military hardware to defend your home.

[briv1016]

36. Okay, 20 gauge then. 28 gauge or reduced recoil loads if you're recoil sensitive.

Yea I remember the first time my father, brother and I rented a few 12 gauges for trap shooting. That was a lot of pain the next day. (To be fair I was 13)

[jberryhill]

7. .

[guillaumeb]

9. Some of the fearful are at war with society,

and the 21st century as well. All a part of taking back the country.

[madokie]

12. I keep a can of wasp spray

near my bed at all times just in case. I can hit a dime at 20 paces with it first and every time.

I recently did purchase a rossi 410 shotgun. Something my wife can handle if need be. She's a small person and a 12 gauge would knock her half way across the house if she fired one. This little rossi I bought cost 125 bucks new and I had to pay the local gun store 25 bucks to do the paper work. First gun I've ever bought. I was raised with guns and they were indispensable in what we used one for. Hunting wild game to put meat on the table. A 22 with shorts is a good hunting rifle. As a kid we hunted rabbits ad squirrels and not much more as there wasn't any deer around these parts back then, In fact the first deer I seen was when I was 12 and it was at the zoo.

But yes what you're saying is so True. No need for a machine designed to kill as many people as possible in the shortest time span in anyones home.

Get real with policies that promote everyone having a job that pays enough to live on would go a long ways towards not needing a gun in the home.

We've had the 410 since early summer and its yet to be taken out of its package. Probably won't ever be fired by either of us

[Lee-Lee]

13. Wasp spray isnthis horrible idea people won't quit doing

It's not a valid self defense tool.

It's a horrible one.

It didn't do anything to incapacitate a person coming at you. It can do lots of dmagae to the eyes but that damage takes a long time to happen. If you spray it on the face of someone coming to rape you you are just going to get raped by someone who smells like wasp spray.

Get rid of it. It's worthless for self defense and is just giving you a false sense of confidence that you can handle situations you can't with it.

[madokie]

15. Bull fucking shit

Immediately blind you or whoever gets in in their eyes, Immediately Blind you

[Lee-Lee]

16. No, it doesn't. That is an urban legend that won't die

But you keep telling yourself it's true. I hope it all works out ok for you when you find out at that critical moment you were wrong.

[madokie]

17. what the fuck ever

[Lee-Lee]

18. Does this guy seem blind?

https://m.

I've been a certified instructor for pepper spray and other chemical non-lethal sprays for almost 20 years. I've been pepper sprayed more times than I can count in training, and yes I have actually sprayed someone with wasp spray just to show it doesn't work.

[Marengo]

48. You could potentially find yourself is serious legal trouble if you intentionally use it for...

Self defense in place of other chemical sprays designed for that use. Looking at mine, there is a warning which reads "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling." There's a reaon for that, wasp spray is a toxic substance which can cause permanent damage to the target, unlike other chemical sprays designed for self defense which are much less likely to.

[bluepen]

67. The wasp spray thing is bullshit but so is your post.

Rapist breaks into a home, attacks woman, she grabs her wasp spray to defend herself, it doesn’t work (of course), she’s raped, and then charged with violating the use label on the can? No way.

[Lee-Lee]

73. It depends on the state and also think civil charges

Yes, in some places you could potentially be charged or you could face a civil lawsuit from your attacker if you use self defense that isn't in line with that states laws.

States have varied laws on just what is allowable. If a state sets a "reasonableness" standard on what is allowed the. Intentionally choosing a self defense method that results in permanent damage over one that only results in temporary irritation, and using it in a manner not designed or intended, could be judged an unreasonable use of force under that states law.

While criminal charges would be unlikely, a civil lawsuit from your attacker would be possible. Unless your state has some form of Stand Your Ground or Castoe Doctrine protection from civil lawsuits by attackers that is a real possibility.

[bluepen]

80. Would you be worried about a jury hearing that civil case

if you were the victim? I wouldn’t. Not for one second.

[Lee-Lee]

82. Maybe so- but how many thousands will legal fees cost even if you win?

I had a friend who was sued in what was a very groundless lawsuit. It never made it to court because the person dropped it eventually- but she still had about $9000 in legal fees.

Even if you win, you lose.

[bluepen]

89. Good argument for loser pays.

Same if they withdraw the suit.

[Lee-Lee]

91. There would be some severe downsides to that

Especially when you consider cases of the little guy going up against major corporations who have deep pockets. How many people legitimately harmed wouldn't even file a lawsuit because the corporation or person they were suing had deep pockets and could run up huge legal bills that would become a burden on the harmed person if they lose the lawsuit?

Say you get harmed in a hospital due to negligence.
. You can maybe afford one lawyer who takes the case on a contingency. The hospital can afford teams of lawyers and expert witnesses. If you lose to that much better funded side you will be in a worse position than if you had never filed and possibly owing tens hundreds of thousands. How many people would decide its not even worth the risk to file and just accept the injustice?

There does need to be some balance somewhere, but I just don't know where or how that's done.

[bluepen]

92. Definitely a tricky subject.

Just to note: I wasn’t arguing for loser pays across the board. I just think there’s a good argument for it. And as you eloquently explained, there’s a good one against it as well.

So I’m with you on the need to find a balance.

[Marengo]

78. I thought legal issue was BS as well, until I did some research and found repeated warnings on the..

Poetential legal consequences of using wasp spray deliberately kept or carried for defense. It simply isn't authorized for that purpose. I think you're correct that it's unlikely that the victim would be charged for n your scenario, especially in castle doctrine states, but that scenario is far less likely than others the poster may face which may not fall within those legal perimeters. That's mostly where the potential for legsl issues reside. For example, A scenario such as spraying the neighbors trespassing and aggressive dog with wasp spray deliberately retrieved from the home for that purpose could lead to a charge of animal cruelty under the Texas Penal Code.

[bluepen]

81. Okay, we agree on the second scenario.

That’s a lot like the case of some wacko neighbor poisoning meat and giving it to a neighbor’s dog. Agreed on that one.

But self-defense against a rapist? Don’t see it.

[Downtown Hound]

98. You really should listen to him. Wasp spray for self defense is bullshit.

There's all kinds of youtube vids of people spraying it on themselves to test it out. While it is by no means pleasant, it does little to nothing to stop a determined attacker.

Now, I have personally been pepper sprayed by police at an anti-Iraq war protest. I can tell you that that shit would stop King Kong himself. It burns like crazy and pretty much makes it so you can barely breathe.

You can get a good sized bottle of pepper spray for about $40. You can get a pepper spray gun for about $50 that can shoot about 25 feet, the same range as your best wasp spray bottle. Make the investment. It's worth it and it actually works.

[Downtown Hound]

99. Snopes took on the issue of wasp spray for self defense:

they concluded that it was bullshit too.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp

[sarisataka]

21. You want to check Snopes

Or this video

[citood]

53. This is a very odd topic...

...but I just don't think wasp spray will immediately blind you. Its a consumer product that sprays out 20 feet...if it could really blind you, there would be a 42 page booklet full of disclaimers that came with it. I've let somebody hit me with pepper spray, and I went through the tear gas chamber in the army...both were fairly debilitating...not just eye irritants but affected sinus, throat, even ears. I have never experienced anything close to that when spraying wasp spray. Anyway...why not just keep pepper spray in the bedroom.

[mitch96]

20. Probably won't ever be fired by either of us

I think you should at least get some training on how to SAFELY use it and maintain it. God forbid if you have a "situation" and don't know what's going on..
I have a can of bug spray next to the bed also.. Bear spray would prolly work better. I use to work with a retired NYC sergeant. He said pepper spray would defuse 90% of all the problems he encountered in the street.. Bullets meant lots of paperwork!!
YMMV..
m

[madokie]

22. I accidentally got a tiny bit of wasp spray in my eyes

and I'm here to tell you there was nothing more I wanted to do than get to some water and wash that burning, stinging shit out of my eyes. Right now as soon as I pushed the spray and it hit my finger and sprayed in my eyes I was incapacitated. Right then. Took my breath away on top of all that too.
It doesn't wash right out either. I was in pain for the longest time. No way would I have continued on with doing whatever if someone shot me in the eyes with it. I was simply going after a wasp nest near the back door. I have a ton of respect for the stuff ever since. You can bet your arse that I'll look at the can and the nozzle before I buy a can to make sure I can determine which way it sprays by feel.

[cwydro]

63. Seriously? You keep bug spray by the bed?

I'm a small woman who lives way out in the country.

Nothing but a bottle of water by my bed.

Reading this thread is so strange. Are people this scared?

[HAB911]

68. All to the NRA plan

[Canoe52]

84. This country seems to run on fear, unfortunately.

[DK504]

31. I love my 10/22, love it.

It truly is one of the best guns ever made. As much as I love it, I keep my 9mm next to my bed. I never though of wasp spray, what a great idea!!!!

[Jim Beard]

41. That wasp spray is an EXCELLENT idea. It shoots out a long stream

Thanks. Also, why can't we have stun guns?

[ecstatic]

55. What brand of wasp spray? Just any brand from the grocery store? nt

[Straw Man]

59. You may find that your Rossi .410 kicks more than you were expecting.

Yes, it's a smaller load, but it's also a much smaller, much lighter gun, around five pounds, compared to seven or eight for a Remington 870 pump. Try reduced loads in a heavier gun for a more manageable shooting experience. It's basic physics: a heavier gun translates into less felt recoil.

Gas-operated semi-auto shotguns are even easier to shoot because the cycling of the action soaks up some of the recoil impulse. A semi-auto 20-gauge is an excellent choice for recoil-shy shooters.

[snooper2]

97. I have a much better idea, hydrofluoric acid

Fill up a super soaker and have that next to your bed...will work just a LITTLE better than wasp spray

[Lee-Lee]

14. One size fits all self defense advice is the hallmark of a bad isntrucyor or advsisor

A 12ga is great for some people. It's a horrible choice for others. So many factors can come into play that blanket statements like this are meaningless and if you intend people to act on your advice borderline negligent.

[Hoyt]

24. I wonder if Paddock had an expert to help select his weapons and train for a massacre?

[Kaleva]

25. Very much true.

[USALiberal]

28. FFS do all gun snowflakes spend all their time analyzing self defense tactics? nt

[Alea]

56. Well if you have a gun for self defense...

and the person you replied to is a police officer, so 2x yes

[USALiberal]

104. Most police officers never fire their gun ever in a career. Average citizen much much less......

It is a obsession with many CC holders.

[Alea]

105. I assume you mean in the line of duty

They still practice with their firearms and practice and "analyze" self defense tactics. It's called training.

I really can't believe you don't get that.

[Sailor65x1]

23. The best weapon for defense

Is the weapon you are best with.

The one you handle most instinctively, can acquire, use and reload blind, and have the physiology to fire repeatedly.

That does not equate to the same weapon for everyone.

[ileus]

71. That's why I have 4 SD items.

Our first line of defense is a 96# GSD that's not nice to anyone after dark.

Second is my P-09, followed by the AR or 500 depending on the threat. I actually have the AR set up with a night scope for varmints in the back field at night (coyotes) shotgun is for running off bears on the back porch or trash out by the garage.

[Purveyor]

26. I like the 12ga for home defense with 00 buck. Personal carry gun is a S&W Bodyguard .38

revolver, capacity 5 rounds with hollow point ammo.

Just saying...

[USALiberal]

29. WOW!!! That is so cool! n/t

[Purveyor]

38. Don't know about "cool" but effective if called upon. Hope that situation never presents

itself but where I live, at least a 20 minute PD response time. Same with FD which is why I have a sprinkler system installed in the main house.

[USALiberal]

39. Cool story! n/t

[Purveyor]

40. Everybody should have one, indeed (cool story)...

[oneshooter]

27. You mean a 12 Ga. like this one?

M97 12 Ga. pump shotgun w/16" bayonet Circa 1916- 1956

I got one like this in one of my safes. And one without the hand guard in the bedroom safe.

[Hangingon]

32. hold the trigger down and work the pump

[oneshooter]

37. Then advance and take the steel to them. n/t

[Iggo]

75. Yeah, work it!

[mitch96]

42. That there is a collectable antique!!!

Neat old John Browning design.. Funny how the germans during WW1 thought a shotgun was "inhumane" in warfare.. But the gass was ok... cough cough..
m

[oneshooter]

46. Shot skeet with it last week. Shoots good but the bayonet is a little front heavy. n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. These guys figure they are going to have to go full rambo someday

against black Helicopters and FEMA troops or something, at least that is what they tell themselves. It's completely nuts, the result is sometimes tragic.

[Not Ruth]

33. 9mm is by far the most lethal caliber in existence

I think that makes it the best self defense caliber.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/publications/Firearms_Report_09.pdf

[Straw Man]

60. Interpreting your stats.

Last edited Fri Nov 3, 2017, 03:01 AM - Edit history (2)

9mm is by far the most lethal caliber in existence

I think that makes it the best self defense caliber.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/publications/Firearms_Report_09.pdf

What you're seeing there simply reflects the fact that 9mm is far and away the single most popular caliber in the world. It stands to reason that it would figure prominently in crime stats.

Its popularity is due to the fact that it is the standard handgun round of the US Army, NATO, and virtually every Western country's military. There are hundreds of handgun models chambered in 9mm, and economies of scale make 9mm ammo the cheapest of all centerfire handgun rounds. It has nothing to do with power/lethality, in which 9mm compares unfavorably with rounds such as .40 S&W and .357 SIG.

The same is true of the overrepresentation of .22 rimfire in crime stats. It's a round that is used in rifles and handguns both, and there are probably more .22 rimfire firearms out there than any other caliber. It has been around forever, and if households have only one gun, it's more than likely a .22 rimfire.

[Not Ruth]

35. 22lr is the second most lethal caliber in existence

.223 like AR15s use, barely even registers. That might be why so many people in Las Vegas were injured and not killed.

[mitch96]

43. .22 fly all over the body.

Years ago while working in the ER the trauma doc said a .22 goes in and from there after you don't know WHERE the heck it's going.. I had to take full body xrays to find the dumb things. One time a kid got shot in the forehead and the .22 wound up down near his butt!! Lucky guy..
m

[Straw Man]

61. See the linked post.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9679728

.223 like AR15s use, barely even registers. That might be why so many people in Las Vegas were injured and not killed.

Nothing could be further from the truth. A hit with a .223 is far more damaging and potentially lethal than a hit with a .22 rimfire. The reason for the large number injured but not killed in Las Vegas was the fact that he was firing indiscriminately into the crowd rather than aiming for precise, lethal hits.

Again, what those stats tell you is the sheer number of .22 rimfire firearms that are in circulation. Yes, there are a lot of .223s as well, but guess what, folks? Not a lot of them are being used in crimes.

[krispos42]

44. It's a fairly arbitrary line, that "weapons of war" thing.

A military issue rifle, like the actual factual M-16, shoots the same ammo as a wide assortment of rifles not used by the military. The M-16 is the Pentagon's chosen method of shooting 5.56x45mm ammo. It is far from the ONLY choice of shooting it.

Is it acceptable to you that I own a semiautomatic rifle in 5.56x45mm, and that feeds from detachable magazines, as long as it wasn't designed by the Eugene Stoner¹?

Military ammo for the M-16 is entirely unremarkable. It doesn't explode, or penetrate 12 inches of hardened steel, or home in on its target. Dozens of ammo makers produce hundreds of types of 5.56x45mm ammo, in all kinds of weights, and for all kinds of purposes, and of the same basic construction as the military stuff. Or rather, the military stuff is the same basic construction as ALL civilian ammo, regardless of caliber!

The M-16 is a launching device for a chunk of metal, just like dozens of other models of rifles. The standard civilian-legal AR-15 is the same ergonomics of the M-16 with a similar (but not identical) operating mechanism. Change how it looks, change how it operates... it's still a launching device for a chunk of metal.

As our country has urbanized over the last few decades people are less interested in hunting and more interested in self-defense. They are buying guns for "tactical" use, not hunting use, and the competitions they created and participate in are not orientated towards hunting, but self-defense. Even people that are using not-AR-15s in competition have similar equipment: tactical lights, red-dot sights, lasers, adjustable stocks, and slings, and they're generally colored flat black or flat dark earth.

All that stuff helps them launch chunks of metal in a more efficient and timely fashion, regardless of the actual type of rifle being used. It's what works well, which is why everybody in that world uses it. After all, why WOULDN'T you put a flashlight on a gun? Or a laser sight?



¹ designer of the original AR-15 back in the 50's.

[DashOneBravo]

45. I used to keep mine for that

When I moved back to a rural area and used my Turkey loads.

After a couple of years I put it away and moved to a .22 rifle. My biggest threat is armidillos. I don't even lock the doors when I go to town.

[aikoaiko]

50. I'll take an AR15 with a can and 30 rounds for an unknown situation

You're right that a shotgun is very good. But I'll take accuracy and capacity over the mighty thump of a shotgun.

[Nevernose]

65. Where is this hypothetical unknown situation?

Afghanistan? El Salvador? Where on Earth do you live that you think an AR15 is a reasonable precaution?

[ileus]

66. Vegas outdoor concert?

[Nevernose]

69. Funny/Not Funny

Because I have a Vegas funeral to attend tomorrow.

There was a chuckle, but I’ll have the world know it was a bitter chuckle.

[Codeine]

94. What "unknown situation" requires a fucking AR15?

Did you buy a condo in Falujah?

And people wonder why normal folks laugh at gunbunnies. You aren't living in the real world.

[aikoaiko]

103. When you hear a broken window or the door pushed open and go downstairs....

you don't really know what you'll face.

Could be nothing. Could be a thief who runs scared when he hears you. Could be an armed home invasion by three individuals where they start to shoot at you.

Police reports on police shooting show that when the adrenaline starts pumping they miss when they think there is a threat. With a shotgun, I'll have 6 - 8 rounds.

[Kaleva]

100. That's kind of waste of money

The odds of a law abiding citizen ever needing a rifle with 30 rounds in a defensive situation are so small as to be almost non existent .

[aikoaiko]

102. Sure, but its my money, my hearing, and my odds.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

51. This is going to sound totally weird,

but I've NEVER felt a need to have a weapon for home defense. Call me crazy, call me naive, but there has never been a time when I've needed one.

I'm being reminded of the saying, if all you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail.

If you honestly think you have to have a weapon for home defense, then every small out of the ordinary sound must sound like an intruder.

I keep on being reminded of the times a homeowner has shot his own kid, or some foreign exchange student who misread an address. If you think that every tiny thing must be met with lethal force then you wind up killing innocents, including your own children.

Somehow I think that's wrong.

[SHRED]

52. I am absolutely with you

My post was speaking to another level of those who feel in need of protection.

I inherited an old 22 rifle and a 410 shotgun from my Dad.
Haven't shot them since I was a kid and I'm almost 61.
Don't know why I keep them.

[linuxman]

58. Send them my way.

Seriously.

[cwydro]

62. We have a .22.

It's worked fine for varmints after my chickens.

[Demsrule86]

64. Absolutely...I lived in the country when I was a young married.

My first husband...(had dates that lasted longer ) was out most nights drugging and drinking...while I sat home with a baby. One night some drunken thugs showed up...they wanted to 'party' and knew my if you can call him that husband was out most nights. I had a shot gun and a rifle. I used the shot gun first...let them have it with both barrels...lucky for them the gun bucked. I was a very good shot with the rifle (still am) but my Grandpa said a shotgun was no gun for a lady so I had limited experience...as it was there was some minor wounding...blood on the ground. They got in their trucks and left. I had no phone. In those days, in WVA only an hour out of DC, you had to run your own phone lines in the country. I couldn't afford that... a few months later, I walked out, hitched a ride with a trucker and called my parents collect...told them the truth for my child's sake and went home to get what many middle class kids with good parents get...a second chance.

[Adrahil]

70. You do know the 12-gauge shotgun has a long history as a weapon of war, right?

The M1897 pump action shotgun was known as the Trench Broom in WWI. It saw action in WWII as well. Shotguns still have a prominent place in CQB.

Shotguns can be effective home defense weapons, but they are not "safer" that other weapons. They penetrate walls, they still require aiming (the spread at home ranges is mot big).

They have some other disadvanteges too. They are larger than handguns, making them harder to handle in narrow hallways (and they are gnrally larger than "carbine" sized rifles). They have smaller ammo capacity, and take longer to reload. Pump actions also require linger for a follow up shot.

FWIW, while I do have "home defense" guns, they are not very handy. I have a teenager in the house, so all my guns, except the antiques with no ammo, are kept unloaded and locked up.

[Not Ruth]

79. Muzzleloaders like muskets were a weapon of war also

No idea of the stats on killed and injured, but I am sure they are up there due to the Civil War and whatever came before it.

[Adrahil]

86. That's part of my point....

The "weapon of war" argument is vague and weak.

If folks wanna argue that civilians shouldn't have anything but a shotgun, make THAT argument.

[Johnny2X2X]

72. This is how the gun nuts think

They are convinced they are the last line of defense against foreign invaders or if the government goes off the tracks and orders mass parts of the country killed. That's it, that's their fantasy world.

[jmg257]

77. A good choice no doubt.

I'm kind of thinking a good pistol caliber carbine could be a good choice too.

[left-of-center2012]

83. My neighbor has a shotgun for 'home protection'

I don't know what gauge it is,
and he says it has a shorter barrel than typical but is still legal length.

This article from 'Guns & Ammo' magazine might interest some.

The Home Defense Shotgun

[MineralMan]

85. Not a bad choice, but you do have to know how

to use it. That requires some time spent actually firing the thing. Too many people buy a less-expensive pump-action shotgun for home defense, load it with 00 buckshot and never even bother firing it at a range or familiarizing themselves with its operation and characteristics.

Then, in the unlikely event when they need it, and in the confusion and stress of the moment, they forget how to release the thing's action so they can chamber a round. They often also cannot remember how to operate the safety on the weapon, and can't remember what state it was in when they stashed it away for an emergency months or even years ago.

In such a case, their "home defense" weapon probably won't be of much use in an emergency situation. A baseball bat might be a better choice for people who do not take the time to learn how to use the firearm they bought.

[Adrahil]

88. absolutely true.

Any weapon one chooses as a home defense weapon has to be one that the user is very familiar with.

As I said above, I don't actually have my "home defense weapons" handy. I live in a very safe part of town, and I have teenager living at home. My guns are unloaded and locked up.

BUT.... if we had a situation where civil order broke down, I DO know how to use the weapons I chose. I've practiced with them, and I can operate all the controls in the dark. I strongly advise anyone thinking of owning a gun to get training from a reliable instructor (my local police department offers a course, taught by the dept's firearms instructor).

One word of advice to anyone using a gun for home defense:

PUT A LIGHT ON IT.

Way too many people shoot a loved one thinking they are an invader. Put a light on your guns and if, gawd forbid, you ever need to get it out, make sure you actually look at who you are pointing the gun at before you shoot. Put a light on the gun, and practice using it so you don't accidentally shoot when you just are turning the light on.

[MineralMan]

90. Well, the reality is that a forcible break-in at anyone's home

is an extremely unlikely event. It does happen, but the probability of it happening to any individual home or person are vanishingly small. The best protection, as it always has been, is to install high quality locks and deadbolts on all door that open to the outside and make sure they are in use. Security devices for sliding patio doors are also available. Windows can be protected as well, with high quality locking devices.

There has been a rash of burglars entering houses by pushing window AC units in through windows. That's also easily prevented by properly installing those units securely and installing a stop to prevent the window from being opened far enough to allow pushing the unit inside. Motion-detecting outdoor floodlights are also a good defensive thing to install.

Don't keep garage door openers inside unlocked cars, or even where they are visible, since breaking a car window is child's play. That's especially important for attached garages.

Most home break-ins are done by people who hope to steal stuff, not to attack the people inside. They don't want to work too hard to gain entry, and hate lights. Good, basic home security measures will keep them out by making entry difficult. They'll move on to some more easily accessed property.

Finally, the measures above will certainly delay anyone from entering, giving you more time to get your stuff together and prepare to defend yourself and others in the supremely unlikely even of someone breaking in to attack you.

[Adrahil]

95. I agree...

I have taken the same approach. A forcible entry into this house is very unlikely. I have taken precautionary measures like motion activated lights and good locks. I think that for me personally, the risks have having my guns immediately available far outweigh the benefits. But they close enough to get to if I have a couple minutes warning.

Fortunately, I only got spooked once. I felt a cold draft one night just after going to bed and heard the sound of a door opening downstairs. I told my wife to have the phone ready to call the cops. I did arm myself and positioned myself at the top of the stairs and called out that I was armed. I waited but did not hear anything for some time... no movement at all. I went downstairs quietly but saw nothing other than the open back door. I closed and locked the door and after my heart rate dropped, went back to sleep. In the morning my daughter told me she had used the back door. She was young at the time, and seems to have not closed the door properly when she locked it, so a good gust of wind pushed the door open. False alarm, thank goodness!

[MineralMan]

96. The more people living in the house, the more risk there is

of something being misunderstood, especially with teens. They do things that are unexpected sometimes. I think I wouldn't probably keep a defensive firearm in a house while teens lived there. Too much chance of a horrible accident or mistake.

I remember my younger sister, at about age 14, sneaking out of the house a couple of times and then sneaking back in. She wasn't the type, but that's an uncertain age and kids do things you don't expect.

[Lee-Lee]

87. The truth is when discussing a home defense firearm

You need to ask and consider all these:

Who all will be using the firearm?

What is their level of physical ability- size, strength, age, any disability?

How able are they to handle recoil?

How strong are they when it comes to manipulation of the firearm and retaining it if someone may try to take it?

What is the lowest level of training and experience for those expected users? You equip based on the lowest level of user capability. So if it's a husband and wife and the wife has extensive firearms experience and the husband minimal you don't pick something requiring lots of experience.

What kind of residence is it? A recommendation for a person in an apartment will be very, very different than for someone living on a farm in a rural area for many reasons. And different considerations for a suburban home with close neighbors, etc.

How many people live in the home? Any children? This is important for many reasons, but the biggest is residential interior walls don't stop bullets- even from a shotgun- unless you choose very carefully. If it is a single person or a couple where both stay in the same room that isn't as big a factor as it is if you have multiple people living in multiple rooms of the home.

And there is a lot more to consider.

For example, if I was advising a single mom of small stature who lived in an apartment and had not a lot of firearms experience and a limited budget I absolutely would not advise a shotgun. Shotgun recoil is intimidating to a new shooter and they are hard to handle in close quarters, effective self defense loads from a shotgun will go through typical apartment walls when fired at the close ranges in an apartment and even #4 birdshot will. Plus a shotgun requires a much more expensive safe or lockbox to properly secure in a home with children. On the other hand a good .38 revolver loaded with a good frangible defense ammo like Glaser Safety Slugs is a much better choice. The Glasers are not the most optimal in terms of stoping power but a worthwhile trade-off because they won't penetrate a wall with enough power to do much if any harm to anyone on the other side if they penetrate at all. And on a limited budget is much easier to afford a proper lock box for a handgun than for a shotgun.

If I was talking to a single person or couple with no children who live in a single family home in a residential neighborhood and both were willing to train with and able to handle a shotgun, then I may advise a 12ga or 20ga shotgun with #1 or #2 buckshot. Better ballistics to stop a threat, may penetrate interior walls but unlikely to go through an exterior wall with enough power to carry on and harm anyone off the property.

And I recently helped a couple who just bought their first property out in the country train and buy their first gun. The nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away on the other side of a hill, so no worries about rounds leaving the property in a self defense scenario. The area they are in has a police response time that averages about 14 minutes, so they will have to be able to handle any threats for longer than most people would. The area has seen a significant increase in crimes that are mostly theft (thanks opioids and meth) but they can turn violent if the person is caught in the act. They also have been having significant issues with coyotes attacking their livestock. Because they also need to deal with protecting livestock a pistol was out- it can't shoot accurately enough at the distances that may be required. A shotgun was possible, but the wife absolutely hated the recoil and said she wouldn't be confident or comfortable using it. They eventually settled on an AR-15, set up with a flashlight, red dot sight and 18 inch barrel. We went with the smaller 20rd magazine for lighter weight and making it easier for the wife with shorter firearms to fire from the prone. They came into the day knowing nothing about guns but thinking the AR-15 was some crazy machine gun and left with me taking them to the gun shop to buy one once they realized it was just another kind of gun and for them the best choice on their budget.

[Mosby]

93. good post

I think a revolver is the best home defense weapon, a 38 would work, same with a 357.

It can sit in a drawer for years, but when you pull it out it works and almost anyone can handle it.

[underpants]

101. We have a bolt action shotgun with a three round clip

I think from Woolworths probably in the 50's. My father in law gave it to my wife when she moved to "the big city". Not sure what gauge it is.