White Privilege is committing the largest shooting in American history and being fondly memorialized

[HipChick]

Link to tweet

[JoeStuckInOH]

1. I think they're rather trying to draw on the stark difference that he was perfectly "normal" and

then literally "just snapped". All too often you hear that people don't just snap, or that there's a trigger, or they've been radicalized. I think the WAPO's statement is to draw attention to the fact that this guy was normal bloke... right up until he wasn't.

IMO, that's a pretty scary thought: that anyone you know to be completely normal is capable of previously unheard of carnage. Scary.

I do not see them as "memorializing a country music fan".
But some people like read into everything though with their agendas.

[HipChick]

2. No...that's not what the intent is...is the constrast of how a non-white is depicted

and is indicative of a racial bias/double standard regarding events like this..

[LovingA2andMI]

33. This "Headline" Makes Us Sick and Is....

The Perfect Example of White Privilege at work.

[bdamomma]

45. yup trump said

Evil and that was it....the shooter was white what more to say. He's a domestic terrorist period. Trump was sticking up to this crowd in Charlottesville, didn't say anything about the girl who was mowed down either by a white guy. What a fucking white supremacist guy.

I am so angry tonite, we have people dying everywhere, and he will not lift a finger for Puerto Rico. What a bastard. I am glad I don't have twitter I would be tweeting him some not so nice tweets.

[iluvtennis]

55. Right on bdamomma

[thbobby]

34. Stockpile (34?) of guns

If a Muslim or Black had hoarded this many guns, there would be questions like "How did nobody notice all his guns?" or "And his family didn't know?". Nobody would care about what kind of music they liked or what vices they had (unless his vice was drugs, of course).

White supremacist terrorism is by far most dangerous in the USA. I don't pretend to know if this was terrorism, but if a Muslim had done it, it damn sure would be portrayed that way.

He was insane. All countries have insane people. The USA is unique in how easy it is to get deadly weapons. Also, the MSM immortalizes this person. Any wannabe killer could be inspired by the attention such an act brings.

But, HipChick, I agree with you. There is a definite bias in how a White Person is portrayed over how a Muslim, Immigrant, or Black Person would be portrayed.

[oberliner]

50. People are asking those questions

I just heard CNN (Erin Burnett) discussing the guns and why no one noticed them.

[58Sunliner]

72. Do you know that he was a supremacist?

Otherwise it is not appropriate to assume. Then it becomes racial bias. He was shooting at a country music festival. Does that say black/POC crowd? White, domestic terrorist is what he was. How long he had been that way, only he knew. Pathological or people who have a psychotic breakdown don't usually share their violent intentions.

[thbobby]

73. Didn't mean to imply he was supremacist

I was just meaning to point out that terrorism by white supremacists is the major source of terrorism in America. I guess I was kind of rambling in my post.

[Aristus]

8. I think the point is that if the shooter were black, the Tweet would be about

how he once smoked marijuana, or once got sent to the principal's office in school. If he were Middle Eastern, the Tweet would be clamoring for a travel ban from the ME.

But because he was white, he was a harmless country music fan until the worst happened.

[uponit7771]

16. Amen

[Skittles]

23. are you saying if this latest shooter had a record of arrest and drug use it would not be mentioned?

ridiculous

[Aristus]

26. It will be brought up eventually. There are already some posts about how his father was on

the 10 Most Wanted List.

It just wasn't the first thing brought up.

When Trayvon Martin was murdered, right-wingers twisted themselve into pretzels trying to rationalize how an unarmed teenager walking home and minding his own business, somehow "had it coming". They cited alleged marijuana use, a trip to the principal's office, even the fact that he came from a broken home.

[Skittles]

29. I understand there is racism but the example provided in the OP is utterly ridiculous

there's enough racism to find REAL examples

[Aristus]

36. I agree.

I don't think the OP for which the Twitterer provided a reply was memorializing the shooter. But it sure made him sound like a neat guy. 'Quiet, like country music and gambling' - you know, the kind of guy you'd want to sit down and have a beer with...

Black victims of extra-judicial killing don't get that kind of hand-in-glove treatment. If the victim's positive qualities are even mentioned in the press, they always seem to be lampshaded by qualifiers such as "Family member says", casting doubt on any objective assessment of the victim's personality.

[whathehell]

52. No one thinks a mass murderer is "a neat guy"..

It's a simple contrast between how he SEEMED and who he truly was, or what he was and what he became. Period

[Baconator]

65. That's just projection...

You really gotta reach to get it to read like that.

[58Sunliner]

71. In the media where I live black victims are not tainted with suspicion.

Unless it is a drug or gang related crime and they are known to each other. And there have been several shootings lately.

[6000eliot]

43. It doesn't say "racism." It says "white privilege."

And this is a perfect example of it.

[Ilsa]

63. And what they aren't stressing was that his father

was also a psychopath, according to either cnn or msnbc. Did this shooter suddenly become psychopathic? Or has he always been on the edge?

[Eliot Rosewater]

30. Like being shot multiple times for jaywalking?

[Skittles]

31. I mean ANY record

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. Exactly, the "framing" of white vs black is stark.

[gratuitous]

12. This murderer seems to have had a well-developed plan

"Just snapped" would be suddenly snatching up a gun or other weapon and blazing away until you're stopped. This country music fan appears to have had a plan that took a few days to set up,* ending in that hail of bullets on his unsuspecting targets, then killing himself when the authorities arrived.

*He checked into the hotel a few days before the big finish of the music festival. He either checked in with this arsenal of weaponry, ammunition and accessories or (more chillingly to my mind), brought it in piecemeal over the course of those days.

[HipChick]

19. Exactly...to have that specific suite...

it was planned...

[greytdemocrat]

44. Without a doubt.

[bdamomma]

46. two suites also

picking off people running back and forth from two rooms, yea he was a quiet guy.....

[whathehell]

40. I think so too..

No one is "memorializing" him...Some seem to see a racial angle in Everything.

[Honeycombe8]

54. I think they're calling attention to the fact that he seemed to have it all, and yet....

and yet he does this. He has money, a good life, connections w/relatives, a girlfriend. Then this.

Not much different from the contrast of O J Simpson's crimes and his wealthy, privileged life.

It's different, is all. Usually people who do horrible things have some obvious issues, some big problems. Like the Unibomber (a highly intelligent, educated white man...who had a screw loose, apparently, that manifested itself in violence against others).

[ehrnst]

74. What "agenda" are you talking about?

[onenote]

3. That you think he's being "fondly" memorialized says something about you

and it's not good.

[HipChick]

5. It was retweeted by Chelsea Clinton, so are you insulting her as well?

or just me..

[onenote]

14. If she retweeted it she was wrong to do so.

[HipChick]

17. Who are you to determine what is right or wrong for Chelsea Clinton?

She see's the injustice, even if others try to be blind...

[melman]

32. What she apparently didn't see

Is this person's twitter handle.

[onenote]

47. I'm someone who is entitle to have an opinion

I'm someone who doesn't think anyone is immune from criticism.

And I'm someone who read the article that supposedly supports the tweet and didn't read it as constituting a "fond" -- meaning affectionate or loving -- recollection of him. I read it as a matter of fact description of what has been learned about him so far. A guy who seemed to blend into the background -- regarded by one neighbor as a good neighbor and by others as "reclusive" or "weird" or a "nothing" or "aggressively unfriendly" -- not exactly terms of endearment. A guy who was a "high stakes gambler." A guy who had no recorded interactions with police.

In other words an article that described what could be learned about him. If you know something that shows that he was in fact a monster before he committed this horrific act, you should let the media know. But otherwise, it is a stretch and then some to suggest that a story that describes what is known about him -- often in unflattering terms -- is describing him "fondly."

[LanternWaste]

78. You've certainly moved your goalposts

You've certainly moved your goalposts from your initial indictment of the poster to a rationalization for Chelsea.

Nice work!

[Petrushka]

24. Link, pease, to Chelsea's retweet.

Edited to add:

Thank you!

[CakeGrrl]

35. It IS a relatively "fond" memorialization compared to Michael Brown

...the unarmed 18-year-old murdered by Darren Wilson in Ferguson:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/us/michael-brown-spent-last-weeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html

Compared to that, this armed killer sounds like some gentle everyman with a pesky, expensive gambling habit.

Why do we need to know what kind of things he liked? That's a move to normalize a killer and invoke sympathy, very similar to the way the media posted pictures of Dylann Roof opening Christmas presents as a boy.

By contrast, black victims are portrayed as having troubled histories and/or criminal pasts, to influence a reader into thinking 'Well, maybe there was a reason they died as they did.'

[Ace Rothstein]

61. The Mike Brown stuff didn't come out for about a week after he was killed.

It hasn't even been 24 hours since this tragedy occurred and little has been said about this guy's motivations.

[CakeGrrl]

70. First impressions are lasting.

I don't recall articles that rushed to run the picture of Michael Brown as a high-school graduate with a life ahead of him, and quotes from his family saying how much he was loved and missed, and not understanding why his life was taken.

The flipside of your statement is that it hasn't been 24 hours, but we got some comments from the family very quickly.

[lunasun]

4. Jesus

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2017, 07:21 PM - Edit history (1)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLJtAMRVoAA0t-D?format=jpg

A lot about him leading a normal life but brother isn't quoted mentioning his father was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list in the '70s.....& declared a psychopath

[eleny]

13. If he had a serious gambling addiction he was no ordinary guy, imo

[MrScorpio]

6. Damn Skippy, HipChick

[gopiscrap]

7. exactly

[Baconator]

9. That's an enourmous stretch...

It's a valid observation that there were no, as yet discovered, signs prior to the attack.

The reason you don't usually see this on terror-related attacks is that there is often an observable pattern.

There's plenty to be angry about. No need to make up new stuff.

[HipChick]

11. No one is making anything up....there is a double standard

that folks seem to try and be blind about - I am glad someone like Chelsea Clinton can see that though..

[Baconator]

15. We would see the same story...

... if it was a 65-year-old wealthy upper-middle-class black guy with no overt religious affiliations, no criminal history and no other indications of the pending attack.

You're trying to make the evidence support your already reached conclusion.

[HipChick]

18. Nope...

what I see are a lot of folks in denial though

[Baconator]

20. Keep hammering away...

[LovingA2andMI]

37. Denial Is A River That Can Run Deep...

In SOME FOLKS Minds......

[tonedevil]

21. Is that really worse...

than speculating about a fictitious black guy to support a conclusion you have already reached?

[Baconator]

38. Except we already have evidence that such a story could be written...

... in the aftermath of an attack. It's posted in the OP.

It's reasonable to extrapolate that a minor change wouldn't completely negate the possibility of a similar story being written about a black guy with all of the same unusual (or very usual depending on your POV) characteristics.

[tonedevil]

39. That would be a reasonable..

extrapolation except that isn't how black people are written about. Perhaps in your part of the world there is no difference in how black people and white people doing the same thing are described. I haven't been to that part of the world.

[whathehell]

41. Thank you.

This gets SO old.

[uponit7771]

58. In what country? tia

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. Who is supposed to be fond in this scenario? nt

[Skittles]

22. a one-sentence description is hardly "fondly memorializing"

[melman]

25. Ridiculous

No one is 'fondly memorializing' this guy.

[PatrickforO]

27. He's a fricking domestic terrorist.

No warm white privilege fuzzies from me.

'enjoyed country music.'

The sick fuck.

[raven mad]

42. ......

[Dopers_Greed]

48. Trump needs to call this what it is...

"Radical White Male Terrorism"

[linuxman]

62. You should tell the FBI whatever info you're witholding.

How was he a radical?

How is this terrorism?

[LovingA2andMI]

64. Answers:

How was he a radical? He had 18 Guns/Rifles In His HOTEL ROOM and Used At Least One or More Of Them To KILL and MAME People. That's Radical:

Radical Definition: "favoring extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions." Per Merriam-Webster.

Stephen Paddock was Radical as he used an EXTREME Condition (An Automatic Rifle - likely more than one), to change an Institution (people enjoying an outdoor concert is an Institution), to change a habit or condition (habit of individuals feeling generally safe at a concert or normally in the condition of feeling safe at a concert).

NEXT....

How is this terrorism? He had 18 Guns/Rifles In His HOTEL ROOM and Used At Least One or More Of Them To KILL and MAME upwards of 2000 People attending an outdoor concert and that was his clear intention. That's Terrorism.

Terrorism Definition (For Students), "the use of violence as a means of achieving a goal." Per Merriam-Webster.

Stephen Paddock, a Privileged White Male, with upwards of 18 guns/automatic rifles, used at least one or more of those rifles to fire into a crowd of upwards of 2000 innocent individuals, attending an outdoor country music concert, using violence to achieve Stephen Paddock's goal of KILLING and MAMING PEOPLE.

Your questions have been answered!

[oberliner]

49. "Drag Queen: Anti-Gay Terrorist Omar Mateen Was My Friend"

FORT PIERCE, Florida — Years before he shot up an Orlando gay club in what became the largest mass shooting in American history, Omar Mateen regularly picked up lunch from a drag queen at Ruby Tuesday. He may have even gone to see a drag show or two, a former high school classmate told The Daily Beast.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/drag-queen-anti-gay-terrorist-omar-mateen-was-my-friend

[linuxman]

51. You'd have to be pretty thick to read that as a memorial.

Pretty damn thick indeed.

[guillaumeb]

53. Just your average American, loved country music, apple pie, hot dogs,

and collecting numerous military style weapons in a state where anyone can do so, so he could work out his inner demons.

[HipChick]

56. Exactly...

[uponit7771]

59. +1

[Docreed2003]

57. Who is fondly memorializing him??

I’m a white guy, from the south, that happens to own firearms, that happens to love real country music...frankly Jason Aldean doesn’t qualify...but I’m a dyed in the wool Democrat and was raised to be the liberal I am today. My grandparents, born in 1901 and 1912 respectively, had two pictures on their walls of political figures: FDR and MLK. FDR, because granddaddy was a sharecropper prior and during the depression. My granny cooked Sunday dinners for our family everyone they worked with and their families...our table was open to all walks of life, even when they insisted on eating outside, granny would scold them and make them sit down at our dinner table. They worked the land like we did, they were our equals, they would have a place at our table. Through FDR’s programs, granddaddy was able to transition from sharecropping to owning his own country store. He owned a total of three in his working life. The thing that separated him from others in our TN town at the time, late 40’s to mid 60’s, his store wasn’t segregated. He did that by choice and by his own personal beliefs. The local KKK showed up one night burning torches at granddaddy’s store demanding he stop serving blacks...I wasn’t there and I can’t say that it’s anything more than family legend, but granddaddy walked out on the porch, because they lived in quarters within the store, with a double barreled shotgun and called every one of the assholes out by name and shamed them into leaving his property. During the civil rights era, they supported the movement of MLK in their rural area, in no small part because their best friends Dave and Mattie, were black...it wasn’t on a grand scale but they did do their part in their part of the world. When MLK was assassinated, my grandparents hung his photo as a reminder of the ongoing struggle. They were poor country people but they knew and recognized the struggle for equal rights.

My grandparents either watched or listed to the Grand Ole Opry every Saturday night...I grew up with classic country as a part of me...likewise, I spent many hours with Mr Dave and Mrs Mattie..From Mr Dave, I learned the blues: Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Aurthur Crudup, Son House, Blind Lemon Jefferson....and on and on...Mrs Mattie would play Motown and Staxx...

They’re both gone now, as are my grandparents. I know my upbringing is different than most in the South but to paint a broad brush and suggest “this is a white guy who liked country music and guns” and that’s why x..y...z..that’s insulting.

This guy was a reprehensible asshole...if he were a POC or a POC who happened to be Muslim, yeah...that would be blown far and wide by the media to further demonize those groups.

If my post is continuing the white privilege promotion, I’ll gladly delete it...that is surely not my intention. My point in my long ass rant is to show not all white, country music loving, gun owners are the same...

[7962]

60. Oh horseshit. nt

[HipChick]

68. So you are calling Chelsea Clinton disgusting and saying she should have rough sex with Alex Jones?

I respect Chelsea Clinton, its a disgusting you are denigrating her like that

[BumRushDaShow]

69. He is now FFR

Was on a Jury for that.

[Cryptoad]

67. Seems this Dick was a

GOP-Oligarch, they write their own rules......!

[Rilgin]

75. An actual comparison to a real muslim African American Sniper, not your imaginary one

The humanistic response to the recent shooting should be about the horror of mass killings, sympathy for the victims, pleas and discussion to do something about American Society or law that allows this type of shooting to happen. An agenda is making this about race in a newspaper puff piece about what his neighbors say.

NOW FOR THAT COMPARISON IN REAL TERMS ABOUT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN SNIPER NOT YOUR IMAGINATION


An article from one day after they caught Muhammad where they interviewed some people that knew him and said some nice things about him in surprise that he was a sniper because he seemed like a nice guy -- SOUND FAMILAR

From October 25 2004, exactly one day after John Muhammaad (a sniper was caught)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2002-10-25/news/0210250347_1_mildred-muhammad-john-allen-muhammad-john-lee-malvo/2

QUOTES ON

Ron James, 44, of Kalispell, Mont., said he served with Muhammad for about five years at Ft. Lewis and never saw anything but a good soldier.

"He's no cold-blooded killer," James said. "He was outgoing, friendly, cared about people. He would never talk about hurting anybody. He never used Muhammad, never. I never made the connection until I saw his picture last night, then wham--my eyes popped open and my chin hit the floor.

"His leadership was excellent," James said. "Guys responded well to him. He asked me to do something, I said, `OK, you got it.' He had that way about [him.]"

END QUOTES

This is what the press does 1 day after a shooting, they report what they know from neighbors and family who rarely know the dark side of the shooter (or they might have done something before). Its common newspaper trope to interview the neighbor who says just like they did with the las vegas shooter, "he was a good neighbor" and then says in so many words, you would never imagine he would do that.

So here it is for you. You can stop putting up a straw man imaginary sniper and actually look at articles that ran one day after a real sniper was caught, one who was an actual muslim African American.

[matt819]

77. Disagree

He's not being "memorialized" as a nice guy.

He's being reported on, and so far there's not much more than quiet, professional gambler, unsociable, had no idea he would do this.

If people had informed the reporters that he seemed weird and they're not surprised to learn he was the killer, then that would have been reported. If his brother saw this coming, then he might have faced the dilemma faced by Ted Kaczynski's brother - do I call the cops. But he didn't. No one did.

If he was black, the tone of the reporting would be different, and that's where the white privilege comes in. And that accusation if fair. But he's not being memorialized.

As for the terrorist tag, I'm on the fence. Without more information about his motivation, I'm not sure the terrorist label can be applied. Unlike the Charleston killer or the killers in Charlottesville or Oklahoma City or Boston. Those killers had fairly well defined (if stupid and evil) goals that I believe fell within the definition of terrorist.