Preventing Future Mass Shootings Like Las Vegas

[RKP5637]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/opinion/mass-shooting-vegas.html

After the horrific mass shooting in Las Vegas, the impulse of politicians will be to lower flags, offer moments of silence, and lead a national mourning. Yet what we need most of all isn’t mourning, but action to lower the toll of guns in America.

We don’t need to simply acquiesce to this kind of slaughter. When Australia suffered a mass shooting in 1996, the country united behind tougher laws on firearms. As a result, the gun homicide rate was almost halved, and the gun suicide rate dropped by half, according to the Journal of Public Health Policy.

1. Impose universal background checks for anyone buying a gun. Four out of five Americans support this measure, to prevent criminals or terrorists from obtaining guns.

2. Impose a minimum age limit of 21 on gun purchases. This is already the law for handgun purchases in many states, and it mirrors the law on buying alcohol.

3. Enforce a ban on possession of guns by anyone subject to a domestic violence protection order. This is a moment when people are upset and prone to violence against their ex-es.

4. Limit gun purchases by any one person to no more than, say, two a month, and tighten rules on straw purchasers who buy for criminals. Make serial numbers harder to remove.

5. Adopt microstamping of cartridges so that they can be traced to the gun that fired them, useful for solving gun crimes.

6. Invest in “smart gun” purchases by police departments or the U.S. military, to promote their use. Such guns require a PIN or can only be fired when near a particular bracelet or other device, so that children cannot misuse them and they are less vulnerable to theft. The gun industry made a childproof gun in the 1800’s but now resists smart guns.

7. Require safe storage, to reduce theft, suicide and accidents by children.

8. Invest in research to see what interventions will be more effective in reducing gun deaths. We know, for example, that alcohol and guns don’t mix, but we don’t know precisely what laws would be most effective in reducing the resulting toll. Similar investments in reducing other kinds of accidental deaths have been very effective.

[kacekwl]

1. Sounds reasonable to reasonable people.

Also guns need to be registered to a person. Would go a long way to eliminate straw purchases.

[ManiacJoe]

18. The purchase is already registered to a person.

The problem is that straw purchases are usually not prosecuted.

[GaryCnf]

27. Yes

HOWEVER

The record of the purchase is not kept in a centralized, much less computerized, database. It is kept in a book maintained by the gun shop. It is of no use in prevention.

The NRA has blocked a national database of gun purchasers.

[GaryCnf]

29. Btw

So long as hand to hand/person to person gun sales are exempt from existing regulations straw man purchases are extremely difficult to prosecute.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Why would they do that?

Gun sales had been slumping after the false threat of Obama coming for them was removed. I'm sure this shooting will boost sales.

[RKP5637]

4. We often live in a very strange country. It's always dollars first, for the most part, and people

last. Far too much money in politics and way too many politicians only interested in personal financial gains and those of their cronies.

[ghostsinthemachine]

3. Not a single one of those things would have stopped the shooter

Til he broke the window and stuck the barrel out, this guy was not a criminal, not crazy, but a regular guy. He passed all of the criteria above. We know the shooter, we always do in these cases. Nobody escapes committing mass murderer with guns. Most all of the mass shooting incidents would have passed all that criteria.

[RKP5637]

5. So, what would be a plausible solution for starters? n/t

[ghostsinthemachine]

6. I have no idea but putting forth ideas that are so easily

Debunked isn't it. I have no idea. My Dad was insane but refused to be diagnosed, so he was able to buy guns till the day he died. I've been a victim of gun crime before. I've owned guns and not owned guns.

A time machine might do it. Go back and rewrite Gunsmoke so nobody kills nobody, and all episodes end with Miss Kitty and Chester doing yoga overlooking Dodge. Violence IS AMERICA. The games we play, watch are violent. The more violent the better. The TV is violent. Movies are violent. Neil Young the hippies hippie, Shot his lady by the river. Jimi Hendrix knew Joe, who had a gun in his hand.
We eat violence (really, there ain't no humane way to kill nothing), and speak violence &quot killer show, bro", "kicked his ass" etc and then all the sports talk). And the history? Better be violent. We have war heroes a plenty, but no Peace heroes. When we did have Peace heroes they were shot down by violent people with guns. (Except Bob Marley, who survived an assassination attempt.).
I went to the movies not long ago. A sort of kids movie (granddaughter's birthday). The previews were 22 minutes of non stop violence. Violence.

[Wednesdays]

7. It's way too early to tell

We're only now beginning to learn of this guy's background. A lot of things could turn up about his mental makeup that would have produced red flags during a pre-purchase background check.

[RKP5637]

10. I've never been able to come up with a really viable solution either. I agree actually

with you, proposals like this sound interesting, but in reality are probably not feasible. Better background checks and all of that are logical, but probably not likely to deter a determined killer. I recall years ago in D.C. they tried something, but then black market Saturday night specials became widely available. Which all leads me back to pondering, WTF is wrong with people.

[ghostsinthemachine]

14. What IS wrong with people?

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2017, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

America was built on guns. White European empires were built on and with, guns. They conquered this country with guns. The civil war was fought with guns. We kept guns away from those we were about to or already conquered. More, bigger guns. Outlaws became famous, murders celebrated.

[Caliman73]

22. America built on guns...

True. As you said, colonization and empire was built on guns. The difference that changed Europe's and Asia's view on guns in a significant way was the devastation of 2 major wars in 50 years costing millions of lives. America lost a lot of people too, but nothing near what Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Russia, and Japan and China did. American soldiers saw the devastation, but then came back to an intact homeland as heroes, and most of them just wanted to put it past them and live on in peace. European nations, Russia, and Japan had to dig themselves out of the rubble and China kept fighting in its own civil war for another 5 years after the end of WWII. There is no wonder that most of those countries decided for taking better care of their citizens AND for more restrictions on firearms. Whereas the US had just kicked a lot of German and Japanese butt!! and we were in love with our military prowess. Shows like Gunsmoke, and other westerns, plus Combat! and movies like The Longest Day showed the future generations that guns and war were cool patriotic.

We tied in Korea and got a bloody nose in Vietnam, but that didn't teach us that violence and war is not the answer. It taught most people that we didn't fight smart, or hard enough, or more likely that the wusses in government didn't have the guts to nuke the commies. Violence is still the answer but you gotta do it right!!

I mean sex for pleasure or any non-hetero relationships on TV and movies, that stuff warps your mind, but good ole violence, that is mother's milk to many Americans.

[RKP5637]

31. Yes, guns are celebrated as are wars. It's self-perpetuating! n/t

[loyalsister]

19. People have accepted the flawed debunk of US entertainment and cultural impact

using research of viewing of violence in countries with low gun violence. US culture seems to worship guns and violence. The way cap guns, squirt guns, and other toy guns are marketed to children reminds me of candy cigarettes.
It's like an early indoctrination as kids get their toy guns and act out violent movies.
These shootings should horrify us all into calling for some practical measures to prevent them in the future. But, we've seen it acted out in movies and learned about so many horrifying shootings, that it seems as if the majority of US citizens are desensitized and just don't care. Not only because it keeps happening, but because that infamous rugged individual value translates into a mindset where it doesn't matter to many people until they are affected.

[Caliman73]

20. Agreed. Easy access to guns is part of the problem, but the problem is larger.

What you said is what I have been saying as well. We are taught (maybe not from our parents directly, but through media at least) from a very early age that violence is a viable solution to our problems. My son and daughter dance Mexican Folklorico and we were talking to another parent, whose son no longer participates because he wants to play football. Being tough aggressive and manly is a big motivator for a lot of guys. I myself played aggressive sports, and still watch boxing.

Our culture of settling things with violence and lashing out when in pain, mixed with drugs and alcohol, mixed with access to guns, mixed with the publicity that you get for going out in a blaze; it culminates in a lot of people choosing to go down that route, and to a lot more people being hurt and killed by those who want to inflict damage.

For others reading this, I am not saying that guns are not a problem, at all. They are a major problem because in the US we promote violence and guns are a very efficient way of unleashing violence. We need to deal with both issues simultaneously.

[ghostsinthemachine]

21. It's not ONE thing, it's a LOT of things

Access. Culture. BTW, did you know the show Criminal Minds is on 24 hrs a day? Mental health. Lots of things are the reasoning.

[Johonny]

8. 9) Universal Health care

1) victims shouldn't have to worry about if they can afford their injuries 2) mental health to help prevent these from occurring in the first place

[RKP5637]

11. Quite true, a lot of it boils back down to mental health. The solution today is sometimes

just to lock people up and then release them later. Our health system is such a mess.

[Calculating]

9. These seem reasonable

.

[WillowTree]

12. But they wouldn't have done a thing to prevent what happened last night.

[gratuitous]

13. Well, doing nothing didn't stop last night, either

The old story of the guy tossing beached starfish back into the surf comes to mind: "It made a difference to that one."

Maybe Las Vegas wouldn't have been stopped by these suggestions (then perhaps more regulation of our well-armed militia would be in order), but if it stops the guy in the next town from killing his ex-wfe and all his kids because he can't get his demented hands on a firearm, I'd say it's well worth it.

[kacekwl]

25. No you are never going to stop a sick mind from

doing bad things but eliminating weapons that can kill 50 or more and injure hundreds in 4 minutes would be a great start.

[ManiacJoe]

15. With some more education on the topic,

the author would probably be quite helpful to the cause.

[Ms. Toad]

16. How about just banning guns with no purpose other than to build body count quickly,

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2017, 11:39 PM - Edit history (1)

so that mass casualties are racked up before suicide/suicide by cop.

Nothing on that list even begins to address the fact that he was able to get off hundreds of shots in seconds, preventing anyone from escaping between reloadings - or being able to swarm his room before he could do significant damage.

[Willie Pep]

45. Good point.

I don't see the rationale behind civilians owning those kinds of guns. You don't need them for hunting or self-defense.

[jmg257]

17. How about banning and confiscating magazine-fed repeating arms?

Then you'd be onto something.

Wouldn't be popular, yet if the laws were changed to allow it, and everything necessary done to enforce it, it'll make a difference.

[X_Digger]

32. And repeal the 5th amendment too?

That pesky 'takings' clause means you have to pay market value for them.

[jmg257]

34. Sure - why not? Tax refunds...market value wouldn't be too great if they were illegal to possess.

[X_Digger]

36. No, you can't say, "it's illegal therefore has no value".

And tax credits aren't compensation.

(Penn Central Transp. Co. v. New York City)

You ready to blow the budget buying guns from people?

600,000,000-660,000,000 guns times, let's say $500 per. (And that's being waaay modest).

$300,000,000,000. A third of a trillion dollars.

You ready to pony it up?

[jmg257]

37. Sure you can - pass the laws, buy em back. Whatever it costs.

[X_Digger]

38. So, what federal programs are you willing to give up?

Realistically, how long are you willing to have republicans in power, because that's all such a proposal would ensure.

But you'd have the pure knowledge that your proposal was actually proposed.

[jmg257]

39. Whatever it takes. Would be the only way to do something to make a difference.

[X_Digger]

40. Yeah, no. Proposing things that only ensure a republican majority isn't good.

Not at least for the rest of the party platform.

If you want to forever be the 'If we'd only..' party, then I suggest starting your own.

[jmg257]

41. Gun control debate - not a 'repub in charge debate'. Nothing else will matter enough

other then getting rid of certain arms, and lots of em.

[X_Digger]

42. Feel free to step in that pot hole (again). Me, I'll pass.

I certainly won't be proposing spending the entire federal budget on a buy-back that'll be doomed to never pass, much less succeed.

[jmg257]

44. Ha - well that's another issue - Said it wouldn't be popular!

SO we can continue to add more controls, go through all the new aggravations, and nothing in the end will make a difference.

[Johnny2X2X]

23. Gun nuts

This guy was a gun nut, he was caught with 19 rifles. And he had 50 rounds magazines which are hard to obtain. This guy took years or decades to amass an arsenal like this. And he had to be active in shooting these weapons.

AK47s easily modified to be fully auto which shoot .308 rounds are not OK to have, they only serve 1 purpose, that exact purpose was shown last night.

Absolutely sickening that nothing will be done.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. Wishful thinking. Not going to happen.

The American people have made their decision as to what kind of society they want to live in. Ultimately this will be regarded as an acceptable consequence.

I don't like it, but at this point I'm resigned to it.

[RKP5637]

33. Sadly, that will likely be quite true. The focus on it will pass, the mourning will end. We have a

history of this in the US and nothing will likely happen.

[LonePirate]

26. Implement a massive tax on ammunition and thenl repeal the 2A, the scourge of this nation.

[kacekwl]

28. There are many things that can be done

if we can't remove these types of guns we can tax the bejesus out of ammunition and gunpowder. We can number every shell so it is traceable. We can licence anyone who wants to purchase this type of weapon and charge accordingly $$$$. We can require strict testing annually . We can apply a surcharge tax on the manufacturer and use the procedes to pay for victims and legal fees to fight the NRA. If we had the will we could.

[Iliyah]

30. I was told by a person on KNX in Los Angeles that things that happen like

in Las Vegas is unavoidable. In other words shit happens because guns are here to stay.

[RKP5637]

35. And sadly it will likely get worse. n/t

[malaise]

43. K & R

Great post