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oberliner

(58,724 posts)
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:16 AM Sep 2017

Racist propaganda: Librarian rejects Melania Trumps gift of Dr. Seuss books

One of Melania Trump‘s favorite books is Dr. Seuss’s “Oh, the Places You’ll Go!,” which she read with her son, Barron, “over and over” when he was younger.

The first lady, who is increasingly carving out a public profile for herself, chose the classic children’s book and nine other Dr. Seuss titles to send to an elementary school in Cambridge, Mass., in celebration of “National Read a Book Day.”

But a librarian at Cambridgeport School refused to accept the gift, criticizing Trump administration education policies and images in the books.

Seuss’s illustrations are “steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes,” librarian Liz Phipps Soeiro wrote in a letter to Trump on Tuesday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2017/09/28/racist-propaganda-librarian-rejects-melania-trumps-gift-of-dr-seuss-books/?utm_term=.f9bbd70c5c7a
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Racist propaganda: Librarian rejects Melania Trumps gift of Dr. Seuss books (Original Post) oberliner Sep 2017 OP
What an idiot joeybee12 Sep 2017 #1
Interesting. Turbineguy Sep 2017 #2
You can't be serious. B2G Sep 2017 #4
Fair enough. Turbineguy Sep 2017 #6
One fish two fish red fish blue fish Throck Sep 2017 #129
OMFG. nt B2G Sep 2017 #3
Wow shenmue Sep 2017 #5
Melania is receiving very poor guidance in her role as First Lady. Since English is not her firstt monmouth4 Sep 2017 #7
What is wrong with Dr. Seuss books?? nt B2G Sep 2017 #8
Exactly. This library is coming off, (IMO) as elitist/snobbery. Take the damn books and say thank monmouth4 Sep 2017 #10
I'm not a snob and I would have NOTHING to do with that racist cretin 6000eliot Sep 2017 #72
And that would be fine, if that's what the librarian did. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2017 #93
actually, that's not the reason that she gave for refusing the books fishwax Sep 2017 #127
Unbelievable. cwydro Sep 2017 #19
As long as the dark ones who sit in back do all the work jberryhill Sep 2017 #82
I always suspected sarisataka Sep 2017 #9
+1 B2G Sep 2017 #11
and "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" gopiscrap Sep 2017 #53
Perfect! +1 Adrahil Sep 2017 #95
LOL, that was funny as hell. ATL Ebony Sep 2017 #103
I have no clue what she's talking about! MoonRiver Sep 2017 #12
The reference is to WW2 propaganda cartoons, particularly anti-Japanese brooklynite Sep 2017 #14
1943 B2G Sep 2017 #15
...and before that he did commercial art for Flit... jberryhill Sep 2017 #38
Evidently the Obamas never saw those, huh? nt B2G Sep 2017 #42
I would have no idea jberryhill Sep 2017 #62
The books she cited were "If I Ran a Zoo" and "And to Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street" oberliner Sep 2017 #16
Well it is banned book week! thinkingagain Sep 2017 #13
This librarian is making Melania Trump look good. Paladin Sep 2017 #17
Agree. It's idiotic. B2G Sep 2017 #18
Yes! mountain grammy Sep 2017 #29
Slightly off topic... demmiblue Sep 2017 #20
Her letter makes a lot of great points. It's also important for people to understand that their WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #21
Do you think Dr. Seuss is problematic? oberliner Sep 2017 #23
Sure. Some of his work uses racial caricatures that are behind the times for a modern classroom. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #27
Do you think any of his books ought to be read by students? oberliner Sep 2017 #46
The way you phrase it, I don't see it as an either/or. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #60
I appreciate your response oberliner Sep 2017 #64
She raises important points about things that we as a society are not very good at talking about. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #67
The library has an image of The Cat in the Hat on the wall oberliner Sep 2017 #69
Funny, I don't think it's odd at all. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #83
good point Whiskey.. JHan Sep 2017 #34
Thanks, and well said: WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #41
I couldn't put it better! +++ JHan Sep 2017 #49
Yes, I agree. A very fine letter. fishwax Sep 2017 #87
I applaud heaven05 Sep 2017 #22
They could have done so without calling Dr. Seuss racist oberliner Sep 2017 #24
I read him heaven05 Sep 2017 #30
Everyone is a product of their time - *warning - offensive* jberryhill Sep 2017 #40
What is your position on libraries carrying Dr. Seuss books? oberliner Sep 2017 #43
My "position on libraries carrying Dr. Seuss"? jberryhill Sep 2017 #59
It is preposterous to call Dr. Seuss racist oberliner Sep 2017 #63
Is this your thing? jberryhill Sep 2017 #71
Oh, I do have an opinion on one other thing jberryhill Sep 2017 #84
No need to be awestruck oberliner Sep 2017 #112
Did any other part of the letter make an impression on you? jberryhill Sep 2017 #113
she didn't call Dr. Seuss racist fishwax Sep 2017 #88
I read that book to my son almost nightly. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #25
She should be giving food, water and medicine to Puerto Rico leftstreet Sep 2017 #26
yep heaven05 Sep 2017 #32
They actually have all the food, water, and medicine that they need oberliner Sep 2017 #58
Very unfortunate. I don't have an answer. Racism and other nasty biases Hortensis Sep 2017 #28
I think it is important to clarify part of this issue ExciteBike66 Sep 2017 #31
Franklin Delano Roosevelt imprisoned Japanese-Americans in internment camps oberliner Sep 2017 #36
Possibly true, but irrelevant. ExciteBike66 Sep 2017 #70
I love Dr Seuss's stories but the illustrations TheDebbieDee Sep 2017 #33
Obama: 'Pretty much all the stuff you need to know is in Dr. Seuss' oberliner Sep 2017 #37
Is this all your Google search showed you? TheDebbieDee Sep 2017 #74
I try to back up my arguments with evidence oberliner Sep 2017 #76
I'm on my phone now but I will post links TheDebbieDee Sep 2017 #81
Horton, the early years.... jberryhill Sep 2017 #86
Here's a whole page full of the racist illustrations that were found in his earlier books... TheDebbieDee Sep 2017 #121
More on the librarian: demmiblue Sep 2017 #35
Interesting that she has an image of Obama on the wall behind her oberliner Sep 2017 #39
And? demmiblue Sep 2017 #45
Perhaps she can learn from the Obamas oberliner Sep 2017 #47
Lol... oh. n/t demmiblue Sep 2017 #48
According to the letter, the book sent was "Oh, The Places You'll Go" oberliner Sep 2017 #51
And? demmiblue Sep 2017 #54
And so her response to Dr. Seuss seems bizarre oberliner Sep 2017 #56
Most people are. demmiblue Sep 2017 #66
It just seems odd to me for her to go after Dr. Seuss in this way oberliner Sep 2017 #73
I don't care. n/t demmiblue Sep 2017 #75
Oh dear. This is awkward. grossproffit Sep 2017 #119
I know people who know her -- she is a treasure. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #44
Do you find her reaction here at all off-putting? oberliner Sep 2017 #57
No. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #61
Sorry - my other question above sort of duplicates this one oberliner Sep 2017 #65
No problem, answered them both! WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #68
Would they not accept To Kill A Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn? edbermac Sep 2017 #50
Our Job In Japan struggle4progress Sep 2017 #52
I'm assuming you are not a fan of FDR oberliner Sep 2017 #55
We should view the world as accurately as we can, to gauge what we can accomplish struggle4progress Sep 2017 #79
I'm skeptical, despite the fact that it's a Washington Post story Blindingly apparent Sep 2017 #77
Here's the letter she posted on the subject oberliner Sep 2017 #78
Look at me! Look at me! I just dissed the First La-dee! n/t TexasBushwhacker Sep 2017 #102
The school library that doesn't have Seuss books is probably not going to be a school that spends WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #85
What do you get for the school that has everything? Why, The Cat in the Hat, of course fishwax Sep 2017 #90
Hee! Exactly. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #91
Ridiculous, but not all that surprising. bluepen Sep 2017 #80
Oh good lord. LEAVE SEUSS ALONE! Vinca Sep 2017 #89
What do we lose if we acknowledge our faves are problematic? WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #92
We lose an opportunity to introduce children to a great writer oberliner Sep 2017 #97
Is he the only great writer who has written inspiring stories? WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #99
No, there are many great writers oberliner Sep 2017 #110
I don't think Seuss is problematic. I think this is nuts. Vinca Sep 2017 #104
What, exactly, do you think is nuts? WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #108
The notion a librarian would somehow think Seuss characters are unacceptable. Vinca Sep 2017 #117
I have to say this. This is why gives them stuff to beat us with. redstatebluegirl Sep 2017 #94
Agreed oberliner Sep 2017 #98
Yup. You have to choose your battles TexasBushwhacker Sep 2017 #100
That is the point, we can't be seen as banning books the first lady suggests. redstatebluegirl Sep 2017 #106
Yep. romanic Sep 2017 #122
Badly done, Liz! Badly done! califootman Sep 2017 #96
hmmmmm..... samnsara Sep 2017 #101
I was struck by the thoughtfulness of the letter NJCher Sep 2017 #105
The letter was neither thoughtful nor gracious oberliner Sep 2017 #107
urm NJCher Sep 2017 #109
Imagine if Michelle Obama had gifted a book to a school library oberliner Sep 2017 #111
first of all NJCher Sep 2017 #114
Thank you for your thoughtful and gracious response oberliner Sep 2017 #128
Thoughtful and gracious: Ms. Toad Sep 2017 #118
Apparently the school district wasn't too happy with her: EX500rider Sep 2017 #115
Breaking: Librarian once dressed up as the "Cat in the Hat" brooklynite Sep 2017 #116
*facepalm* romanic Sep 2017 #123
That's Catural Appropriation! Dr. Strange Sep 2017 #125
The proper response would have been 6000eliot Sep 2017 #120
This message was self-deleted by its author Raine Sep 2017 #124
Sorry, but I like Dr. Seuss. I have so many good memories of my mom PatrickforO Sep 2017 #126
 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
4. You can't be serious.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:23 AM
Sep 2017

Do you know anything about Geisel at all? Are you aware that Michelle Obama regularly read his books to school children>

This woman is an idiot.

monmouth4

(9,705 posts)
7. Melania is receiving very poor guidance in her role as First Lady. Since English is not her firstt
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:33 AM
Sep 2017

language it would appear she is more or less at the mercy of those advising and guiding her. I do not blame her entirely, I honestly think she is trying to do the right thing and just fails spectacularly each time.

monmouth4

(9,705 posts)
10. Exactly. This library is coming off, (IMO) as elitist/snobbery. Take the damn books and say thank
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:38 AM
Sep 2017

you for heaven's sake.

6000eliot

(5,643 posts)
72. I'm not a snob and I would have NOTHING to do with that racist cretin
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:04 PM
Sep 2017

or anyone associated with him.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
93. And that would be fine, if that's what the librarian did.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 02:08 PM
Sep 2017

But she didn't. She said she refused the books because the illustrations were racist.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
82. As long as the dark ones who sit in back do all the work
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:37 PM
Sep 2017

People can see all kinds of things in illustrated literature.

sarisataka

(18,655 posts)
9. I always suspected
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:36 AM
Sep 2017
One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish was it a secret Manifesto supporting radical polygamy.

Don't even get me started on the message behind Hop on Pop

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
12. I have no clue what she's talking about!
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:42 AM
Sep 2017

I've read Dr. Seuss to my kids and grandkids, in other words for decades. If there's racist propaganda there sure fooled me.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
38. ...and before that he did commercial art for Flit...
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:24 PM
Sep 2017

It was a brand of insect repellent.





Early Horton:

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
62. I would have no idea
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:56 PM
Sep 2017

Nor would I care.

As a product of his times, he drew many racial stereotypes in his early commercial and government work. Several of the characters depicted in those early works evolved into his later characters.

That doesn't make him much different from Walt Disney in that regard, and I'm sure there are a range of opinions that people have about him too.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
16. The books she cited were "If I Ran a Zoo" and "And to Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street"
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 10:17 AM
Sep 2017

Those were her examples of "racist mockery" in Dr. Seuss books.

thinkingagain

(906 posts)
13. Well it is banned book week!
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 09:51 AM
Sep 2017

Banned Books Week 2017: Sept. 24 - Sept. 30

Everyone should go to their local library and check out a book that is on the banned book list somewhere
For extremely stupid reasons in most cases

Ex: Charlottes web
Because the animals talked

For shame on that librarian they should never support censorship

Go forth & READ😊

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
18. Agree. It's idiotic.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 10:25 AM
Sep 2017

Just Google "Michelle Obama Dr. Seuss". There are too many pictures of her reading these books to kids to even begin posting them all.

demmiblue

(36,854 posts)
20. Slightly off topic...
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 10:41 AM
Sep 2017

School libraries are bound to have numerous copies of Dr. Seuss books. Why not donate current award winning books that libraries have not/cannot purchase (Newbery, Caldecott, Coretta Scott King, Pura Belpre, Orbis Pictus, etc.)?

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
21. Her letter makes a lot of great points. It's also important for people to understand that their
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 10:42 AM
Sep 2017

faves are problematic and that it's OK to acknowledge that.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
27. Sure. Some of his work uses racial caricatures that are behind the times for a modern classroom.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:32 AM
Sep 2017

"If I Ran the Zoo" and "To Think I Saw It on Mulberry Street" are good examples that are better suited for museums than classrooms. I hadn't seen the exploration of minstrelry around the Cat in the Hat, and it's much more subtle, but I find it intriguing and worthy of discussion.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
46. Do you think any of his books ought to be read by students?
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:37 PM
Sep 2017

Or do you think the problematic nature of the content of the books you mentioned ought to disqualify his works more broadly from being read in schools?

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
60. The way you phrase it, I don't see it as an either/or.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:54 PM
Sep 2017

If the books, minus the ones with racist images, are available, I don't have a problem with that. I don't think his past work should be eliminated entirely from school libraries. I do think people should be aware of what they're saying when they hold him up to be a champion of literacy, because of his racist (and misogynist!) works. We lose nothing by acknowledging some of his works are problematic. "If I Ran the Zoo" and "Mulberry Street" aren't even particularly standouts when it comes to his work.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
64. I appreciate your response
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:57 PM
Sep 2017

Would it be fair to say that you thought the response from the librarian in the OP was a good one? Meaning, do you generally support how she responded?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
69. The library has an image of The Cat in the Hat on the wall
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:03 PM
Sep 2017
:large

And she posted a "Happy Birthday, Dr. Seuss" message on her twitter account along with a picture of herself dressed as The Cat in the Hat (which I posted elsewhere in the thread)

Edit to add: So it seems odd for her to go after Dr. Seuss in this public way when she herself seems to celebrate his work.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
83. Funny, I don't think it's odd at all.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:42 PM
Sep 2017

She described Seuss as a tired cliche -- which he definitely is. Some of his characters are also familiar and beloved and can be great way to remind kids that reading is fun. First ladies and others in power are in a great position to use their influence to call attention to lesser-known artists; in fact, it's a tradition that goes back hundreds if not thousands of years. Soeiro's point is that for the current first lady to send these particular books to a library already rich in resources and perspectives was basically phoning it in and painfully on the nose for the administration as a whole. Don't swallow the narrative that her letter is a social justice attack on Seuss; it's not.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
34. good point Whiskey..
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:00 PM
Sep 2017

I'll always love Dr Seuss, Enid Blyton and other authors while acknowledging how some of their work is problematic... there was a lot of negative physical racial stereotyping in literature at that time reflecting harmful attitudes which had real-world consequences. The resistance towards a discussion of the problematic bits is the real eye-opener here.

Of course banning books aren't the answer, and I would not have rejected Melania's donation. Instead, discussing WHY those bits are problematic is a more fruitful exercise and an opportunity to educate kids. If Melania were cleverer, she'd know how to handle this one.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
41. Thanks, and well said:
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:27 PM
Sep 2017
The resistance towards a discussion of the problematic bits is the real eye-opener here.


Sometimes I wish there were a little space to take a breath and say, "This is racist...and I still like it." Or, "This is racist...and people are complicated and it's hard to let go of things we loved as children." Or, "This is racist...and I recognize it, and recognizing it doesn't mean the good I got out of it is actually bad." We live in a white hegemony. We're soaking in racism. Our beloved institutions are built on it. Pointing out racism in the literature, art, music and discourse we love shouldn't be a surprise. People are complicated. People living in a hegemony make complicated decisions. I can name a dozen of my own faves that are problematic but so catchy or beautiful or fun. None of this mean we should shy away from the discussion.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
87. Yes, I agree. A very fine letter.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:51 PM
Sep 2017

The point about the infusion of problematic racial stereotypes in Dr. Seuss's work was but a minor point in the letter, but it's no surprise that it's what some have chosen to focus on.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
22. I applaud
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:03 AM
Sep 2017

not taking anything from a 1st lady who happens to be an open racist(trumped up birther controversy), the hypocrisy of these types of people, white supremacist, male and female, would be laughable if it didn't enrage and offend so much. to hell with trumps..... nothing laudable about anything done by this ...'1st lady'

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
30. I read him
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:48 AM
Sep 2017

growing up...always thought he was weird, but entertaining in his 'rabbit hole' madness...the japanese depictions of his during WW2, the bucked out teeth and other stereotypes were the times....hell 9/11 proved that even rational people can stop thinking and grab hold of RW propaganda and run with it...hardly a squawk on 'Patriot Act'...still with us today.

No I didn't and still don't think he was racist per se....just white culture oriented....no blacks in dr. seuss..... but what can be expected from those times and temperament of white culture.... He was considered a liberal democrat, but did depict blacks as savages, grassskirts, living in tropical climes...but most of white society, then and still today, think of black people in this manner...they just use a newer term...'thug'.

Nope, dr. seuss an open n***** hating white person? Maybe not. Just an example of growing up in a white supremacist oriented society.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
40. Everyone is a product of their time - *warning - offensive*
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:27 PM
Sep 2017

In this early Seuss cartoon, a store sells items which correspond to popular expressions.



 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
43. What is your position on libraries carrying Dr. Seuss books?
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:31 PM
Sep 2017

Such as "The Cat in the Hat" for instance.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
59. My "position on libraries carrying Dr. Seuss"?
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:54 PM
Sep 2017

What a bizarre question.

What is my "position on restaurants having french fries on the menu"?

Good golly, if I had to have a "position" on everything someone said somewhere, I imagine I'd be pretty busy.

I don't run a library, and really don't care what some librarian in Whereverthefuck thinks or does not think about Dr. Seuss one way or the other really.

I was simply responding to your assertion that it is "preposterous".

I probably haven't read Dr. Seuss since in a while, as my youngest child is 23. Accordingly, I couldn't give two shits what's in the children's section of some library that I would never have occasion to visit.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
63. It is preposterous to call Dr. Seuss racist
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:56 PM
Sep 2017

He was not.

I was curious to get your opinion on the OP itself - and whether or not you think school libraries ought to carry his books.

Would you object to student's reading this author's books due to the images you presented in the cartoon you shared?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
71. Is this your thing?
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:04 PM
Sep 2017

What a library does or does not carry is up to the library.

I already said I don't give two shits what a library chooses to carry, nor do I give two shits what students read or don't read.

The question of "Did Dr. Seuss draw racially stereotypical cartoons" is an objective question of fact. And, as I noted, one may, or may not, consider the expression "n----r in the woodpile" to be a racially pejorative expression or not.

This is classically divisive behavior - stir up shit about some stupid thing someone said somewhere on the planet, and force people to take sides on it. Not playing your game today.

The librarian has an opinion. I haven't had much of a long chat with her to try to understand why she said what she did, and really, honestly don't give two shits in the first place.

And before you go on about "then why comment" - again - my comment was directed to things Dr. Seuss produced, about which many people might not know.

Here's an interesting book:

Was the Cat in the Hat Black?: The Hidden Racism of Children's Literature, and the Need for Diverse Books

https://www.amazon.com/Was-Cat-Hat-Black-Literature/dp/019063507X

If I gave a shit about this to any great extent, I might read that and see what the author has to say.

So, I know it is of great importance to you to know whether I agree with this librarian, but I have to say that I really don't know much of what this librarian is on about. I do know that Seuss produced some outstandingly racist stuff.

So, go get yourself a big, dark Mike:

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
84. Oh, I do have an opinion on one other thing
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:43 PM
Sep 2017

Personally, I would tend to doubt that a well-funded school library run by a staff of professional librarians would be awestruck by the gift of a Dr. Seuss book. So, I think there may be some additional context to this librarian's reaction.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
112. No need to be awestruck
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 04:00 PM
Sep 2017

Just something like: "Thank you for the gift. Dr. Seuss is a favorite here" would've worked.

And then she could've added her comments about libraries in general and how critical they are and how she believes the administration should be more supportive of them.

I do not see why she went with the "Dr. Seuss is a racist" angle.

 

Weekend Warrior

(1,301 posts)
25. I read that book to my son almost nightly.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:26 AM
Sep 2017

My son is too young to speak or understand. He loves the illustrations and sits there just looking and listening.

That said, this librarian nailed it. She put her thoughts into words that would be perfect for a stump speech. I truly appreciate how she addressed it. I do think she could have left out certain things but I could say that about almost anything.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
58. They actually have all the food, water, and medicine that they need
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:51 PM
Sep 2017

The problem is a logistical one.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Very unfortunate. I don't have an answer. Racism and other nasty biases
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:33 AM
Sep 2017

are found most of humanity's literature, but does that mean we should burn our books?

And opportunistic as this librarian found a first lady's gift for making an attention-grabbing statement on this issue...I wish she had chosen a different book. Not this lovely, inspiring one.

Oh, the Places You'll Go!

Congratulations!
Today is your day.
You're off to Great Places!
You're off and away!

You have brains in your head.
You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself
any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
And YOU are the guy who'll decide where to go.

You'll look up and down streets. Look 'em over with care.
About some you will say, "I don't choose to go there."
With your head full of brains and your shoes full of feet,
you're too smart to go down any not-so-good street.

And you may not find any
you'll want to go down.
In that case, of course,
you'll head straight out of town.

It's opener there
in the wide open air.

Out there things can happen
and frequently do
to people as brainy
and footsy as you.

And then things start to happen,
don't worry. Don't stew.
Just go right along.
You'll start happening too.

OH!
THE PLACES YOU'LL GO!

You'll be on y our way up!
You'll be seeing great sights!
You'll join the high fliers
who soar to high heights.

You won't lag behind, because you'll have the speed.
You'll pass the whole gang and you'll soon take the lead.
Wherever you fly, you'll be best of the best.
Wherever you go, you will top all the rest.

Except when you don't.
Because, sometimes, you won't.

I'm sorry to say so
but, sadly, it's true
that Bang-ups
and Hang-ups
can happen to you.

You can get all hung up
in a prickle-ly perch.
And your gang will fly on.
You'll be left in a Lurch.

You'll come down from the Lurch
with an unpleasant bump.
And the chances are, then,
that you'll be in a Slump.

And when you're in a Slump,
you're not in for much fun.
Un-slumping yourself
is not easily done.

You will come to a place where the streets are not marked.
Some windows are lighted. But mostly they're darked.
A place you could sprain both your elbow and chin!
Do you dare to stay out? Do you dare to go in?
How much can you lose? How much can you win?

And IF you go in, should you turn left or right...
or right-and-three-quarters? Or, maybe, not quite?
Or go around back and sneak in from behind?
Simple it's not, I'm afraid you will find,
for a mind-maker-upper to make up his mind.

You can get so confused
that you'll start in to race
down long wiggled roads at a break-necking pace
and grind on for miles cross weirdish wild space,
headed, I fear, toward a most useless place.
The Waiting Place...

...for people just waiting.
Waiting for a train to go
or a bus to come, or a plane to go
or the mail to come, or the rain to go
or the phone to ring, or the snow to snow
or the waiting around for a Yes or No
or waiting for their hair to grow.
Everyone is just waiting.

Waiting for the fish to bite
or waiting for the wind to fly a kite
or waiting around for Friday night
or waiting, perhaps, for their Uncle Jake
or a pot to boil, or a Better Break
or a string of pearls, or a pair of pants
or a wig with curls, or Another Chance.
Everyone is just waiting.

NO!
That's not for you!

Somehow you'll escape
all that waiting and staying
You'll find the bright places
where Boom Bands are playing.

With banner flip-flapping,
once more you'll ride high!
Ready for anything under the sky.
Ready because you're that kind of a guy!

Oh, the places you'll go! There is fun to be done!
There are points to be scored. There are games to be won.
And the magical things you can do with that ball
will make you the winning-est winner of all.
Fame! You'll be as famous as famous can be,
with the whole wide world watching you win on TV.

Except when they don't
Because, sometimes they won't.

I'm afraid that some times
you'll play lonely games too.
Games you can't win
'cause you'll play against you.

All Alone!
Whether you like it or not,
Alone will be something
you'll be quite a lot.

And when you're alone, there's a very good chance
you'll meet things that scare you right out of your pants.
There are some, down the road between hither and yon,
that can scare you so much you won't want to go on.

But on you will go
though the weather be foul.
On you will go
though your enemies prowl.
On you will go
though the Hakken-Kraks howl.
Onward up many
a frightening creek,
though your arms may get sore
and your sneakers may leak.

On and on you will hike,
And I know you'll hike far
and face up to your problems
whatever they are.

You'll get mixed up, of course,
as you already know.
You'll get mixed up
with many strange birds as you go.
So be sure when you step.
Step with care and great tact
and remember that Life's
a Great Balancing Act.
Just never foget to be dexterous and deft.
And never mix up your right foot with your left.

And will you succeed?
Yes! You will, indeed!
(98 and 3/4 percent guaranteed.)

KID, YOU'LL MOVE MOUNTAINS!

So...
be your name Buxbaum or Bixby or Bray
or Mordecai Ali Van Allen O'Shea,
You're off the Great Places!
Today is your day!
Your mountain is waiting.
So...get on your way!

ExciteBike66

(2,357 posts)
31. I think it is important to clarify part of this issue
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:49 AM
Sep 2017

Dr. Seuss drew some really racist cartoons. However, most people just label them as "anti-Japanese" without noticing that some of the cartoons are actually "anti-Japanese-Americans".

See for instance the cartoon labelled "Waiting for The Signal from Home" in an earlier comment.

Dr. Seuss was actually insinuating that Japanese-Americans were waiting for orders from Japan to start fighting here in America. This is an instance of terrible ethnic baiting that actually endangered American citizens and immigrants. Seuss could have gotten Americans killed with his propaganda.

Dr. Seuss did in the 1940's what Donald Trump is trying to do today vis-a-vis Muslims or Mexicans in America.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
36. Franklin Delano Roosevelt imprisoned Japanese-Americans in internment camps
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:22 PM
Sep 2017

So technically, FDR was the one who actually did in the 1940's what Donald Trump is trying to do today - and, in reality, far worse.

ExciteBike66

(2,357 posts)
70. Possibly true, but irrelevant.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:04 PM
Sep 2017

Logically, both FDR and Dr. Seuss could have actually done what Trump is trying to do today.

That said, I doubt Trump would lock up all Muslim Americans in one area merely because they might be spies (which is what FDR actually did to the Japanese). Part of the reason I doubt Trump would do that is the fact that FDR's actions are not seen in a positive light these days.

On the other hand, Dr. Seuss was merely an anti-American propagandist, something that Trump actually is already. Thus, my response to you is that at this point in time you are wrong; Trump is more like Seuss than FDR.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
33. I love Dr Seuss's stories but the illustrations
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 11:56 AM
Sep 2017

For some of his earlier works were written for young white readers of the 40s and 50s. Maybe some of you should Google images for some of his earlier works...

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
37. Obama: 'Pretty much all the stuff you need to know is in Dr. Seuss'
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:24 PM
Sep 2017
The White House posted a video on Twitter promoting President Obama's new "Read Across America" initiative. The initiative will provide millions of children with thousands of digital books, the White House said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/obama-pretty-much-all-the-stuff-you-need-to-know-is-in-dr-seuss/2016/03/02/7ca71bb0-e0d4-11e5-8c00-8aa03741dced_video.html?utm_term=.321d081a1492
 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
81. I'm on my phone now but I will post links
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:20 PM
Sep 2017

To some of questionable illustrations when I get on my computer at home.

I like Dr Seuss's works as well - I gave my children all my favorites written by him, but I didn't let my love for his work blind me to the fact that his earlier works used racially stereo-typed illustrations... Nobody's perfect, not even Dr Seuss!

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
121. Here's a whole page full of the racist illustrations that were found in his earlier books...
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 07:02 PM
Sep 2017

As I said, I love the Dr's stories - nearly everybody does! But the fact that the Obamas like Dr Seuss's books doesn't mean that these illustrations aren't racist. Like I said before: Nobody's perfect, not even Dr Seuss!

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&biw=1280&bih=636&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=racist+dr+seuss+illustrations&oq=racist+dr+seuss+illustrations&gs_l=psy-ab.3...202940.202940.0.205425.1.1.0.0.0.0.152.152.0j1.1.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.Jr0A6vC4snE

demmiblue

(36,854 posts)
35. More on the librarian:
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:06 PM
Sep 2017


On any given day, Liz Phipps Soeiro might be inviting families to hear a speaker, such as Pulitzer Prize–winning author Junot Díaz, at her elementary school library—or riding a bike to local parks to give away books. Both reveal her commitment to families at Cambridgeport School in Cambridge, MA, and its community. At the school, in a historic brick building a mile from Harvard University, nearly 40 percent of the pre-K through fifth grade students are from low-income backgrounds, and others have parents who work at Harvard or MIT. “We have a lot of wealth in the city, but we also have people who experience poverty,” says Phipps Soeiro.

Five years ago, “Liz the Librarian,” as she is affectionately known, noticed that parents and caregivers often lingered to socialize after dropping kids off. She also saw that within this racially and socioeconomically diverse population, not all parents felt included in the school or local government. With that in mind, she created a morning program called Coffee and Conversations. Once a week, she invites a speaker for casual meetings with parents at the library. Guests have included the mayor, school committee members, and local artists. Following President Trump’s executive order banning travel from six Muslim nations, she invited a representative from the Council on American Islamic Relations and an attorney from the Muslim Justice League to speak to an audience including some 25 Muslim families about their rights. The lawyer met with individual families afterward.

“She’s a true linchpin of the school community, with a warm and respectful welcome for every child, family member, caretaker, and educator who comes through the library,” says Elissa Gershowitz, executive editor of SLJ sister publication The Horn Book, whose son attends Cambridgeport.

“Friend” is a word that comes up often when Phipps Soeiro starts talking about parents. She gets to know them and encourages them to share special skills with students. One mother, whose four children attended, is a rapper and songwriter who, over a month and a half, “helped [students] write and perform a song about our school and library,” says Phipps Soeiro.

The library’s collection reflects Phipps Soeiro’s commitment to social justice. Titles such as Margarita Engle’s Drum Dream Girl and Debbie Levy and Elizabeth Baddeley’s I Dissent: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Makes Her Mark spark discussions about government and fairness. During a field trip to city hall, students sat in council chambers and asked questions of city leaders.


http://www.slj.com/2017/08/industry-news/liz-the-librarian-liz-phipps-soeiro-2017-hero-of-family-outreach/


She is an impressive woman... I wonder why they sent the books to this particular school.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
39. Interesting that she has an image of Obama on the wall behind her
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:26 PM
Sep 2017

As he was a huge promoter of Dr. Seuss.

Along with Michelle Obama:

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
51. According to the letter, the book sent was "Oh, The Places You'll Go"
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:42 PM
Sep 2017

Which is a particular favorite of the Obamas (and most other people who have read it).

demmiblue

(36,854 posts)
54. And?
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:47 PM
Sep 2017

I also happen to be a fan of Dr. Seuss. A few of his early political toons left something to be desired, though.

What strange replies to a post about a really fascinating woman. I am able to disagree, yet highlight her accomplishments.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
56. And so her response to Dr. Seuss seems bizarre
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:49 PM
Sep 2017

I guess she is a complicated person.

Here is a picture of her dressed as the Cat in the Hat.

:large

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
73. It just seems odd to me for her to go after Dr. Seuss in this way
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:05 PM
Sep 2017

When she, and the library, clearly seem to celebrate him and his work.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
61. No.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:55 PM
Sep 2017

I feel like the points she raises are important and the fact that the school has police officers patrolling it today is very telling. White people don't like to see their idols called out.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
65. Sorry - my other question above sort of duplicates this one
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:58 PM
Sep 2017

Feel free to disregard!

In any case, I appreciate your responses, though I don't agree.

struggle4progress

(118,285 posts)
52. Our Job In Japan
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 12:43 PM
Sep 2017

... Theodor S. Geisel, better known by his pen name Dr. Seuss, wrote the film, and Elmo Williams edited it. Both men were working as part of a military film production unit headed by Frank Capra. At the time, the film was considered sympathetic to the Japanese, and its distribution was apparently suppressed by Douglas MacArthur in his capacity as the overall commander of the Allied forces occupying Japan ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Job_in_Japan

struggle4progress

(118,285 posts)
79. We should view the world as accurately as we can, to gauge what we can accomplish
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:18 PM
Sep 2017

and what we cannot. It is a simple fact that the world does not conform to our better desires. It is a moral imperative that we ought to make some effort to improve things. Other simple facts include: that changing the world can sometimes be a slow and tedious venture; that sometimes we need a prophetic outrage; and that sometimes we ought to do carefully and diligently what we can do, leaving the work unfinished for others to complete. My old heroes all had feet of clay: I do not celebrate their perfection, as none were blameless, but rather try to understand what they did, in the context of their time, realizing that their triumphs may not be entirely clear to me, since their time is not my time; and we are the heirs of their unfinished struggles, where we ourselves may find some triumphs, while again leaving the project for our own heirs

FDR passed this way quite some time ago; I will try to view his story as accurately as I can, in hopes of learning from it; but if I practice any prophetic outrage, I will practice it in the present, with an eye towards the future rather than towards the past

77. I'm skeptical, despite the fact that it's a Washington Post story
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:08 PM
Sep 2017

I will not believe that a school librarian would turn down Dr. Seuss books. Their job is to encourage children to read and nothing does it better for first-graders than Dr. Seuss. Trump is not above manipulating fax to make himself look like the victim and I suspect that is true here

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
78. Here's the letter she posted on the subject
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:10 PM
Sep 2017

Last edited Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Dear Mrs. Trump
SEPTEMBER 26, 2017 BY LIZ PHIPPS SOEIRO

http://www.hbook.com/2017/09/blogs/family-reading/dear-mrs-trump/

Edit to add:

Also a picture of her holding the letter and the Cat in the Hat book and making a sad face:

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
85. The school library that doesn't have Seuss books is probably not going to be a school that spends
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 01:44 PM
Sep 2017

$20K per pupil.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,349 posts)
99. Is he the only great writer who has written inspiring stories?
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 02:48 PM
Sep 2017

Has anyone, including Soeiro, recommended throwing Seuss out entirely? Encouraging critical reading within contexts and talking about the importance of understanding symbolism seems to be the exact opposite.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
110. No, there are many great writers
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:51 PM
Sep 2017

But she is explicitly not accepting a gift of a Dr. Seuss book for her library and is making it less likely that children would be inclined to pick up one of his books by suggesting the author's works are racist.

This is a person that many children (and parents) in that area obviously look up to and admire, and she published this letter and those disparaging comments in a very public way.

These are simple children's stories that have been inspiring to many over the years. I think reading them should continue to be encouraged.

Vinca

(50,273 posts)
117. The notion a librarian would somehow think Seuss characters are unacceptable.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 05:11 PM
Sep 2017

In any case, last post on the topic. This must be the dumbest thread I've ever posted on.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
94. I have to say this. This is why gives them stuff to beat us with.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 02:14 PM
Sep 2017

The first lady giving Dr. Seuss books to a library is not out of line. If we are going after Dr. Seuss then we have fallen over the cliff at this point. I don't agree with going after the first lady or her young son. They should be off limits. I didn't agree with it when they did it to Michelle either.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,190 posts)
100. Yup. You have to choose your battles
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 02:54 PM
Sep 2017

And you have to consider how your action, however noble in theory, is going to reflect on your cause. If her library didn't need the books, she could have graciously donated them to a library that could use them.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
122. Yep.
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 07:30 PM
Sep 2017

Outside of the liberal vs conservative bubble, the rest of the USA is looking in, cocking thier head in confusion going "Who doesn't like Seuss books?".

califootman

(120 posts)
96. Badly done, Liz! Badly done!
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 02:39 PM
Sep 2017

Of course, the author of that line is seen by some as a cliché, tired, worn ambassador for literature.

Ms. Phipps Soeiro is clearly an amazing person, but she didn't handle this situation well.

NJCher

(35,675 posts)
105. I was struck by the thoughtfulness of the letter
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:37 PM
Sep 2017

someone sent it to me via e-mail about an hour ago. It is thoughtful and gracious. It obviously took a great deal of time to write.

I was absolutely shocked at the responses on this thread that the letter has received.

But we have our very own thoughtful, eloquent posters here who have made the important points. Thank you, WhiskeyGrinder. And thank you, struggleforprogress. Your post frames a way to think about gray area situations, like this one.


Cher

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
111. Imagine if Michelle Obama had gifted a book to a school library
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 03:56 PM
Sep 2017

And the librarian rejected the gift, insulted the author, and provided a list of children's books that Michelle Obama should be promoting instead.

You can even use the Dr. Seuss book, Oh, The Places You'll Go, as an example since it is clearly a favorite of Michelle Obama's.

So Michelle Obama donates copies of that book to a library in Alabama.

The librarian writes back saying they are rejecting the gift, that the author is a lefty communist sympathizer whose writing have anti-Christian undertones, and that Michelle Obama should be promoting Biblically-based children's books instead.

Your reaction would be?

NJCher

(35,675 posts)
114. first of all
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 04:13 PM
Sep 2017

this librarian would not use words like "rejecting," "lefty communist sympathizer", or "anti-Christian." These are hot-button words and someone as erudite as Liz would avoid them. She would be interested in getting her point across, not getting someone's ire.

The reaction would be this:

I did not know this about Dr. Seuss. I am very appreciative of the fact that you took the time and effort to write this letter.

You've also reminded me of the fact that our nation employs some very knowledgeable experts and as first lady, I can avail myself of their input. I would very much like to meet Carla Hayden for purposes of future projects. Again, my thanks go to you for bringing her to my attention.


Why do you think this librarian wrote this letter? Because of attribution theory, we really cannot speculate, but if I had to, I would say she sincerely felt her voice would add something to the public discourse. This is something that, as a teacher, we try to get our students to do. Everyone sees situations in a unique way; the problem is how to get people to express their thoughts in a manner that others will listen. This is how we become stronger as a nation: we listen to our critics.


Cher

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
128. Thank you for your thoughtful and gracious response
Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:50 AM
Sep 2017

And I mean that sincerely.

Though I disagree with your take on this, I do concede that you make some valid points.

Ms. Toad

(34,073 posts)
118. Thoughtful and gracious:
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 06:06 PM
Sep 2017

"Sent second-day air, no less! That must have been expensive."

"I am honored that you recognized my students and our school. I can think of no better gift for children than books; it was a wonderful gesture, if one that could have been better thought out."

"And then there’s the matter of the books themselves. You may not be aware of this, but Dr. Seuss is a bit of a cliché, a tired and worn ambassador for children’s literature."

These seem a lot closer to snarky and patronizing, to me.

Just a couple of highlights. This letter was neither thoughtful nor gracious.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
115. Apparently the school district wasn't too happy with her:
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 04:37 PM
Sep 2017
The Cambridge school district said its views are not represented by the editorial.
"The employee was not authorized to accept or reject donated books on behalf of the school or school district," it said in a statement.
"We have counseled the employee on all relevant policies, including the policy against public resources being used for political purposes."


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41431144

brooklynite

(94,577 posts)
116. Breaking: Librarian once dressed up as the "Cat in the Hat"
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 05:05 PM
Sep 2017

Massachusetts librarian who compared Dr. Seuss books to 'blackface minstrelsy' once dressed as Cat in the Hat

By Phil Demers
pdemers@masslive.com

The Massachusetts librarian who said she sees "racist propaganda, caricatures and harmful stereotypes" in Dr. Seuss books looked pretty happy to be dressed as Cat in the Hat in 2015.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/dr-seuss-is-racist_librarian_d.html

6000eliot

(5,643 posts)
120. The proper response would have been
Fri Sep 29, 2017, 06:55 PM
Sep 2017

Fuck this racist asshole. Fuck his trophy wife. And fuck their empty attempt to seem charitable.

Response to oberliner (Original post)

PatrickforO

(14,574 posts)
126. Sorry, but I like Dr. Seuss. I have so many good memories of my mom
Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:15 AM
Sep 2017

reading them to me when I was a child. My favorite was always the Cat in the Hat. Not to mention the Lorax. How could this woman reject Dr. Seuss books?

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