Chris Matthews also did a segment on Jill Stein splitting

[Skidmore]

the progressive vote for the Russians and its impact on the vote in key states. Interviews Rep. Swalwell.

[trueblue2007]

1. good segment. He clearly laid out that Stein hurt the dems

[Scurrilous]

2. @$!# Jill Stein.

[Gore1FL]

12. Exactly. But not her voters. We need them.

The question this raises is how do we embrace our natural allies who would reject the Democrats. What can we do to better include them in the dialogue and get their vote?

[Weekend Warrior]

14. There are far far more non-voters out there.

If they voted Stien in the last election they are not even close to ideologically aligned with us. They are simply doing damage, with the assistance of another country, as a marginalized party. They are the HA Goodmans of the world.

[Blue_true]

18. I agree. We need to get the non voters active.

They see the damage Trump is doing. Remind them of the cost of not voting. Screw people that voted for Stein, they voted knowing that only one of two people could possibly be our President, and they still did what they did.

[Gore1FL]

20. We need them, too.

I'll take anyone who will vote for us.

Chances are, we have some common ground to extend.

[radical noodle]

15. I doubt Stein voters in 2016 are ever gonna vote for Dems

Democrats aren't crazy enough for them.

[Gore1FL]

19. They still have points of view worth hearing nt

[radical noodle]

24. Really? Why?

Haven't we already heard it ad nauseam?

[Gore1FL]

26. Because their views are worth at least as much as those on the other side of the 50 yard line.

I am tired of pandering to the the ever rightward center.

[radical noodle]

28. They can have all the views they want but they

have no intention of voting for Democrats. They find fault with everyone. I am equally tired of catering to people who will never vote for Democrats.

I'm not right of center, btw, and most people here at DU are not either.

[Gore1FL]

29. I am not suggesting that you are right of center.

I am suggesting that the Democratic Party finds votes between the 40 yard lines more valuable than those left of 70.

That's a problem.

[radical noodle]

30. I would guess it's more like

left of 90. Why try so hard to get that 10% who don't even like the party or anyone in it while risking 30% of the people in the party who are the most loyal?

[Gore1FL]

36. We lost by a lot less than 10%

Perhaps we should listen?

[radical noodle]

38. Less than 10% Stein voters

who also hate us and we should listen? They will drive off more than we gain. Stein is an idiot and possibly a Russian stooge. As long as they think they did the right thing and think Trump is better than Hillary would have been, the party has nothing to gain by listening to them. If I thought for a moment that they regretted their votes and would be supportive Democrats, I'd agree with you... but I have no reason to think they would after seeing them celebrating trump's election.

[Eliot Rosewater]

49. To what?

The only position a Stein voter could have was that Hillary was horrible and as bad as Trump, because Stein didnt run on issues or a platform and if she did I can assure you 99 out of 100 of her voters had NO idea what it was.

[Gore1FL]

70. I wonder what would have happened if we made an effort to show them otherwise.

Telling them to screw off certainly didn't work for us.

[delisen]

44. There is an authoritarian left and right-that segment

Authoritarian right has destroyed the Republican Party. I think the authoritarian left would do the same to the Democratic Party.

[Spy Car]

80. So we should pander to the lunatic fringe?

What I'm tired of is liberals, moderates, and centrists being called right-wingers.

Jill Stein is not ally. Her voters are not allies of the Democratic Party. Chasing fringe voters who don't hold liberal values would be political suicide for our party.

[gopiscrap]

82. welcome to du

[BzaDem]

31. No they do not.

They did not in 2000, they did not in 2016, and they do not now. Anyone irrational enough to willingly vote to destroy themselves is not worth listening to. There are at least a thousand better uses of anyone's time. They do nothing but push our party to the right, by forcing Democratic politicians to seek actually persuadable voters further to the right in their place.

[Gore1FL]

34. You cannot complain they they do not vote for us

and simultaneously complain that they do not vote for us with that attitude.

[LanternWaste]

59. One may however, simultaneously observe and complain. Which is precisely what was done.

One may however, simultaneously observe and complain. Which is precisely what was done.

Move your goalposts some more, please...

[Gore1FL]

75. They cannot simultaneously fall into two opposite categories. They are not Schrodinger's voters. nt

[BzaDem]

71. That doesn't make sense. People complain about Republican voters all the time. n/t

[Gore1FL]

76. How many expect them to vote Democratic, complain when they don't

and then suggest they never will?

If they cannot ever be counted on, then why is there an expectation they were ever going to be Dem voters? It doesn't make a bit of sense.

DU told a lot of people to fuck off in the last election. Now some of those very same people are upset that people did.

[BzaDem]

79. They claim they are on the left, and prefer progressive policies.

So yeah, it is pretty reasonable to expect them to vote for the more progressive of the two candidates. When they don't, they are knowingly and willfully increasing the odds of victory of a candidate that they personally believe will make America worse off than the other choice. In what world does it make sense to coddle people who cause harm according to their own concept of harm and are happy to do so?

DU told a lot of people to fuck off in the last election. Now some of those very same people are upset that people did.

Nice try. The people who were told to fuck off are the people who knowingly cause harm. They are not people it makes sense to reason with. Of course they are going to be told to fuck off, just like anyone else in any other non-political context who repeatedly and knowingly causes harm to others.

If that "doesn't make a bit of sense" to you, I think that might be a problem with one or more premises you used to come to that conclusion (as opposed to the conclusion itself). It might make sense to reflect a bit on why something so simple to everyone else "doesn't make a bit of sense" to you.

[Lil Missy]

54. Putin thanks you. n/t

[Gore1FL]

77. Don't be an idiot. I voted for Clinton.

Unity on the left is not in Putin's favor.

[Demsrule86]

57. I have no interest in hearing anything from these fools not even a little bit. They have no say.

[Gore1FL]

78. That is why we lose. nt

[Ninsianna]

81. We lose because we keep trying to win over people who determinedly choose to

not vote, not learn how government works, and have no clue that they're required to vote in EVERY election.

Allowing such idiots to be rewarded and cosseted for their idiocy is why we lose. They need to have a few basics explained to them, and to understand how and why their personal failures in 2016 have killed people.

Failing to address the stupidity that festers is why we lose. Not correcting their ignorance about gerrymandering, how government works etc. HOW TO REGISTER TO VOTE and why EVERY VOTE in EVERY ELECTION at EVERY LEVEL is vital, is why we lose.

It's why they're such easy targets for bots, fake news and RW nonsense. They silly fools don't know what they're saying and believing is pure bull shit and that it doesn't make them "pure", or voters of conscience, it makes them complicit.

[VOX]

33. "Greens do not vote for Democrats."-- Jill Stein, 2017

Per Newsweek, 8/3/2017:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/2017/09/08/jill-stein-interview-russia-trump-645722.html%3famp=1
RUSSIA INVESTIGATION: JILL STEIN EXPLAINS HER RELATIONSHIP TO PUTIN, TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON
By Alexander Nazaryan On Thursday, August 3, 2017 - 07:50

"...Greens do not vote for Democrats. You have to do the numbers. You can’t just move Green votes into the Democratic column."

[Gore1FL]

35. So your say that Jill Stein is correct in her assertions?

Is that the argument you are going with?

[radical noodle]

39. They voted for her didn't they?

They were willing to risk decades of conservative supreme court justices and conservative legislation for one of two reasons. Either they voted for Stein because they have no intention to vote for Democrats OR they were having a big pity party and voting out of pure spite. They don't deserve to be heard. They have their candidates all picked out, so let them go vote for them. I won't because I vote for Democrats.

They didn't care if climate change worsened, if some people would lose their rights (especially women, gays, and PoC), if people lost their medical insurance and died, or if Trump was delusional enough to start a nuclear war. They risked it all for no good reason. They're too lazy to form their own party so they want to take ours.

[VOX]

43. No, hell no. I (thought I) was using her own words to show...

...what an incredibly shitty person Jill Stein is. I'm enraged at what that woman did last year, and she appears to be continuing with that same mind-set.

I should have been clearer.

[Demsrule86]

56. They can fuck themselves...this was a very close election...I doubt we will see another one like it.

It doesn't matter because they are not progressive and elected Trump...and many are the morons over at our revolution primarying sitting Democrats or screaming at Nancy Pelosi...I don't give a damn about them. We should not cater to them...they are unreliable and will never be satisfied.

[Gore1FL]

69. If our brand is damaged, we need to fix it.

I would prefer to not lose further elections by telling people to stay away from my candidates. A diversity of leftward ideas is a good thing for us.

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. I understand the Russians ran ads for her as well? Makes you wonder, don't it?

[SHRED]

11. Yep

Link to tweet

[JHan]

13. lol.

I won't hold my breath.

[radical noodle]

16. I doubt they'll ever admit they believe it n/t

[NastyRiffraff]

74. Yeah right

I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm with the "fuck Stein voters" crowd. They may be breathtakingly stupid, but they had to know EXACTLY what they were doing with their vote.

[kimbutgar]

4. I remember seeing this expensive ad for her on national tv

I wondered then who is funding her? I never saw on progressive appeals to send her donations. Then I saw that picture with her and Flynn with Sputnik and I knew she was a mole meant to take votes away from Hillary. My friends daughter had brought into the Hillary beneghazi/email shit was leaning towards Stein. I showed her the picture of her with Putin and asked her who do you think she really works for? The young woman voted for Hillary.

I wish someone bigger in the media would shed a spotlight on her that she is a putin puppet meant to siphon votes away from Hillary.

[Blue_true]

21. Bet your friend's daughter don't feel like a fool today.

Hope that she learned a hard political lesson. Educate oneself before voting.

[wasupaloopa]

5. Chris said the Russians had ads on facebook supporting Stein and against Hillary.

Could the Russian investigation check out some of the anti Hillary posts here at DU during the primary.

There was some very bad stuff posted here back then and I always felt that much of it was not from Bernie supporters but just blatant attacks on Hillary with no mention of an opponent.

[LenaBaby61]

6. ANY Democrat who had doubts that Stein was a filthy ruskie mole ....

Shouldn't have ANY doubts after that interview Matthews had with Swalwell. But maybe some will still have their doubts and there will be those supporting Stein still.

Aww, look at them all there over in ruSSia having din din.

Misha "Lock him up" Flynn, putin and Stein, all looking like they were having a great time and thoroughlly enjoying their covfefe

[TomSlick]

7. The only question is whether Stein was a knowing tool for Putin or an unknowing tool.

She doesn't seem to be stupid and the photograph certainly suggests she was a knowing tool. My bet is that she was in on it from the beginning.

[Skidmore]

8. I know that the Green Party

has taken a dive in esteem for me. I would not consider them as worth consideration in the future.

[Gore1FL]

22. I'd never vote for a Green Party candidate for Potus

Ultimately, I am more like them than unlike them. We stand for similar things, albeit different methods.

I'd rather align myself with them than someone who is republican light.

[radical noodle]

17. She can always use a little extra income n/t

[Blue_true]

23. She is a millionaire. nt

[radical noodle]

25. I know

and when do millionaires ever have enough?

[brer cat]

45. There is also a question

of what happened to all that money donated for her "recount." I read early on that a million went to staff and administrative expenses.

[radical noodle]

48. She's almost as big a crook as trump

I say "almost" because I think no one could possibly be as bad as trump. She's a close second.

[rufus dog]

27. She was in on it

I became convinced with the recount BS. She suddenly cared about election integrity, raised money and disappeared.
She got a cut of that money along with the payment promised.

[Bradshaw3]

32. I don't care how many degrees she has, she is an idiot

Don't know whether she was a useful idiot or knowingly took part; either are awful.

[Gothmog]

9. I miss this segment

If there a youtube of it posted?

[democratisphere]

10. Stein is a Russian collaborator and possibly a Russian colluder.

[Hekate]

37. It's out there now. Rachel did a hard hitting comprehensive program tonight on Russia...

Let's revisit who was at that dinner party Jillsie attended. Knowing what we know now, don't you just love that smug, entitled, smile on her face?

[TomCADem]

40. Sanders names Cornel West, Keith Ellison to DNC platform committee

Will Bernie Sanders take responsibility for putting Cornel West on the DNC platform committee without securing his support for the DNC's nominee?

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/280941-sanders-names-cornel-west-keith-ellison-to-platform

Top Bernie Sanders supporters Dr. Cornel West and Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) will be among those on the Democratic Party's important Platform Drafting Committee after the Vermont senator won a key concession as he looks to leave his mark on the party's platform.

The roster of the drafting committee, released by the Democratic National Committee on Monday, reflects the party's agreement that Sanders would have five supporters on the committee, compared to six for Hillary Clinton.
Sanders previously panned DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who appoints all of the committee members, for failing to include enough of his supporters on an initial list. But the latest statement notes that Wasserman Schultz allocated the campaign's seats "proportionally according to the current vote tally."

Along with West and Ellison, Sanders supporters on the committee are author Bill McKibben, Arab American Institute head James Zogby and Native American activist Deborah Parker.

[TomCADem]

41. Cornel West endorses Jill Stein and says she not Hillary Clinton is the 'only progressive woman

We can't just point our fingers at Trump and Republicans. Many folks on the left were duped at best or complicit at worst in Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-1468606689-htmlstory.html

Not all of Bernie Sanders' high-profile supporters are backing Hillary Clinton.

In a sharply worded op-ed article in the Guardian, Cornel West, an influential scholar and civil rights activist who was a staunch supporter of Sanders in the Democratic presidential primaries, endorsed Green Party candidate Jill Stein, calling her the "only progressive woman in the race."

"This November, we need change. Yet we are tied in a choice between [Donald] Trump, who would be a neo-fascist catastrophe, and Clinton, a neo-liberal disaster," wrote West. "That’s why I am supporting Jill Stein. I am with her – the only progressive woman in the race.”

West's overt jab at Clinton and support of Stein, who was also the Green Party’s nominee in 2012, comes just days after Sanders endorsed Clinton’s candidacy as the two campaigned together in New Hampshire.

[Skidmore]

42. West came to mind immediately.

He has become a pariah.

[ehrnst]

46. Video here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029645518

[Madam45for2923]

47. Sounds like the news made Jill Stein angry, LOL! WTF?

[Eliot Rosewater]

50. The report says they did ads for Bernie too even AFTER the nomination was made.

Weird that.

[pnwmom]

52. I remember people advocating for writing Bernie's name in. Bet they were behind that. n/t

[vi5]

51. Is there any evidence or indication in there at all...

...that any of those voters would have voted for Hillary if Stein hadn't been in the race?

The only Stein voters I have ever know would never have voted for Hillary no matter what. If there were no Stein or Green candidate in the race they still would have never in a million years voted for her. These types of voters hate the two party system more than they hate any specific candidate.

Unless there is some research or evidence that address that question than anything about how many ads that were run, or fake news stories or whatever is completely beside the point.

[Skidmore]

55. No excuse for Stein's involvement with the Russians.

This last election was seriously tainted. We should not have o have this discussion at all. What I learned this time is that ideologues on the left can be corrupted just as easily as those on the right.

[vi5]

58. So......the answer is no?

There is no evidence that any of those people would have voted for Hillary if there was no Jill Stein and no Russian involvement?

[Skidmore]

61. There is evidence of Stein

and Russian involvement and that the election process was compromised in many other ways. Does this not concern you? We must have integrity in our election process? Let me suggest that there is no evidence that some of them wouldn't have voted Democratic. We won't know. This underscores what I have said.

[vi5]

66. The reason this is important...

...is not understanding this is a fundamental reason why we keep getting things wrong and focusing on the wrong things.

Yes, it concerns me, but the relentless focus on Stein and Bernie completely miss the point. The segment of people who didn't vote for Hillary and voted for Stein or wrote in Bernie or whoever, would NEVER HAVE VOTED FOR HILLARY. No matter what. So yeah, focus on the Russia issue, and propaganda from Fox News or Brietbart and the way that may have influenced people. But just stop with the relentless focus on Stein or whoever else as a specific scapegoat.

There are way more people who probably voted for Trump over Hillary than who voted for Stein over Hillary. 3rd party voters hate the system as a whole and want no part of it. Yes, they are stupid and short sighted but they are NOT THE ONES WHO ARE SIPHONING VOTES FROM ANY DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. Those people would never and will never vote for any Democratic candidate and would have never voted for Hillary. Someone who voted for Trump over Hillary is more likely to be persuaded to vote within the system for OUR candidate. For instance the 30% of Latino voters who went for Trump, or the 30% of Jewish voters who went for Trump, or the 40% of women who voted for Trump.

Fixating on third party voters is a fool's errand of the highest order.

[Eliot Rosewater]

65. R U KIDDING?

Forget Stein, it is SELF EVIDENT that the massive, mind boggling endless attacks EVERYWHERE in social media and MSM of Hillary had a MASSIVE impact on turnout, votes, etc.

SELF EVIDENT

Makes me fucking FURIOUS to have to say that HERE on THIS board

[vi5]

67. Exactly my point. Forget Stein...

(copied from above)
This relentless focus on Stein or write in voters or whatever is not understanding this is a fundamental reason why we keep getting things wrong and focusing on the wrong things.

Yes, it concerns me, but the relentless focus on Stein and Bernie completely miss the point. The segment of people who didn't vote for Hillary and voted for Stein or wrote in Bernie or whoever, would NEVER HAVE VOTED FOR HILLARY. No matter what. So yeah, focus on the Russia issue, and propaganda from Fox News or Brietbart and the way that may have influenced people. But just stop with the relentless focus on Stein or whoever else as a specific scapegoat.

There are way more people who probably voted for Trump over Hillary than who voted for Stein over Hillary. 3rd party voters hate the system as a whole and want no part of it. Yes, they are stupid and short sighted but they are NOT THE ONES WHO ARE SIPHONING VOTES FROM ANY DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. Those people would never and will never vote for any Democratic candidate and would have never voted for Hillary. Someone who voted for Trump over Hillary is more likely to be persuaded to vote within the system for OUR candidate. For instance the 30% of Latino voters who went for Trump, or the 30% of Jewish voters who went for Trump, or the 40% of women who voted for Trump.

Fixating on third party voters is a fool's errand of the highest order.

[Demsrule86]

53. This is why I will never forgive that that no words bad enough...and I believe the Trump campaign or

Russians told her where to go...how did she know just where to go?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. Jill Stein voters are not the reason Hillary lost.

She got a whopping 1% of the vote. And people who vote for the Green Party simply don't vote for any other party.

Gary Johnson got nearly 4% of the vote. His vote in Arizona, Florida, Michigan, Nebraska 2nd District, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin was greater than Trump's margin of victory in those states. I don't believe there was a single state in which Stein's votes were greater than Trump's margin of victory.

So why aren't people exercised about Johnson as a spoiler?

Once again, Jill Stein is not the reason Hillary isn't President today.

[6000eliot]

62. Look again at WHERE Stein got votes

and how many votes Hillary Clinton was down. The fact that Stein is so defensive about Russian intereference tells us EVERYTHING we need to know. Edited to add "Fuck Jill Stein."

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

64. I did look at where she got the votes.

And her votes were never the reason Hillary didn't carry a state, but Gary Johnson was. Five states and one Congressional district for a total of 92 Electoral votes. THAT'S the reason Hillary lost. Not Jill Stein.

[BzaDem]

72. Perhaps try looking a little harder then?

Jill Stein's vote totals exceeded the difference between Trump and Clinton in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Your references to Gary Johnson are just poor attempts at whataboutism, and do not make your factual assertion any less wrong.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

73. In all of those states, plus the others I named

Gary Johnson's totals were a whole lot larger than Jill Stein's.

Again, there is zero reason to think that any of them would have voted for Hillary. The Green Party supporters simply aren't potential Hillary supporters. From the ones I've actually known personally, I'd say that if the Greens didn't have a Presidential candidate on the ballot, they won't be voting. They pretty much never bother to run candidates at the local and state level and simply don't have very much influence in the political sphere.

Libertarians, on the other hand, actually seem to pay more attention and seem to move back and forth between political parties as they change their minds about things.

So this constant demonizing of Jill Stein makes no sense. Or, if you're still that convinced that she somehow singlehandedly denied Hillary the Presidency, you need to do a lot more thinking about why Hillary couldn't convince more of Stein's supporters to her side.

Again, if Stein is at fault then Johnson is at a much greater fault.

[vi5]

68. What evidence is there anywhere...

..that ANY of those Stein voters would have voted for Hillary? Those types of voters would never no matter what have voted for Hillary or ANY Democratic candidate. They are the same exact people, the same 1% (at best) of voters who always vote third party to make a point.

Focus on the propaganda and misinformation sure, but really everyone should just shut the fuck up about non-entity Jill Stein and her voters. It completely misses the point and lets actual progress and actual learning pass us by.

[progressoid]

63. She's an easy target.

And nobody ever mentions the millions of registered Democrats who didn't bother to vote at all.