John Dean just told Don Lemon that experienced federal prosecutors don't

[mobeau69]

Last edited Tue Sep 19, 2017, 07:05 AM - Edit history (1)

throw the word "indictment" around lightly. He said that if they did mention "indictment" then Manafort has likely already received a target letter and if he doesn't flip he probably will be indicted.



Fixed.

[BigmanPigman]

1. Can 45 pardon him?

[mobeau69]

2. There's always that.

Normally, you'd think that would be the last straw but there doesn't seem to be any last straws for the orange a-hole.

[PoliticAverse]

4. For federal crimes he may have committed of course he could. n/t

[world wide wally]

9. Is treason pardonable?

[PoliticAverse]

10. A few people have actually received Presidential pardons for treason. n/t

[tritsofme]

13. The only real restriction on the pardon power is that it cannot interfere with impeachment.

Which is a political, not criminal process

[Gore1FL]

15. Confederate Soldiers were pardoned. nt

[pnwmom]

14. He couldn't pardon him for a conspiracy that he himself was involved in. nt

[PoliticAverse]

18. Sure he could. n/t

[sharedvalues]

19. This is legally disputed

Constitution just says "Except in cases of Impeachment".

What does that mean? Likely SCOTUS will have to interpret it.


We are in crazy times

[PoliticAverse]

21. That clause means the President can't cancel an impeachment...

If Congress for example were impeaching a Federal Judge the President couldn't cancel the impeachment
process by issuing the judge a pardon.

What some people have a question about is whether a President could pardon themself - the Nixon administration
even got the DOJ to issue an opinion on the matter - the opinion was no he can't, you can read it here: https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf .

[sharedvalues]

22. That clause means what SCOTUS interprets it to mean

[PoliticAverse]

24. I don't think there's any reasonable doubt what that clause means in regards to impeachment. n/t

[bagelsforbreakfast]

28. "Likely SCOTUS will have to interpret it." We've seen how that works when...

when Gore lost...

[pnwmom]

20. If he did, he'd be guilty of obstruction of justice. Also, his Presidential pardon power

doesn't extend to state prosecutions. It's very likely that some of Manafort's crimes could be prosecuted as state crimes in NY, which has strong financial laws.

[PoliticAverse]

23. "If he did, he'd be guilty of obstruction of justice." - that could very well be true and would

be a reason why a President shouldn't issue a pardon to a co-conspirator. Also a co-conspirator that accepted such a pardon would lose their ability to refuse to testify by invoking their 5th amendment right and could then be forced to testify against the President which would be another good reason for a President not to issue a pardon to co-conspirator.

[Midnight Writer]

25. I agree. He would open himself to charges. Then we can speculate if Trump can "self-pardon".

[PoliticAverse]

34. In a Washington Post opinion piece yesterday law professor Lawrence Tribe included the following...

The framers suggested one solution to the prospect of such abuse. During a Virginia debate over whether to ratify the Constitution, George Mason worried that the president might “pardon crimes which were advised by himself.” James Madison replied that a president who did so could be impeached.

From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-presidential-pardon-power-is-not-absolute/2017/09/18/09d3497c-9ca5-11e7-9083-fbfddf6804c2_story.html?utm_term=.7213caa25945

[unc70]

6. One of the stories tonight mentioned NY indictment

Can't remember where I heard or saw that. Could have only been through DU or on CNN or MSNBC.

I believe it was in connection to the Ukraine money laundering.

[Amaryllis]

8. We know Mueller has been working closely with NY AG SChneiderman on Trump state corruption stuff

and that can't be pardoned.

[BigmanPigman]

12. That is where I get confused, between the states' and federal government's jurisdiction.

[WinkyDink]

36. Just depends on the type of crime. E.g., murder is local, but it's Federal if Civil Rights are

involved.

[Hortensis]

35. This isn't the point. Manafort may answer the question, what did Rump know

and when did he know it? And/or a number of other questions dangerous to Rump and all those associated with him, including potentially Pence.

To keep Rump from being able to by buy silence through pardon, Mueller's and the NY state AG's investigations have teamed up. Remember, Rump cannot pardon state charges.

They have this covered.

[flamingdem]

3. Flip baby flip!

You really will not enjoy federal prison. Just play ball Paul!

[Corvo Bianco]

5. Right now I just hope he isn't slipped Russian poison

[flamingdem]

7. Wow, you never know

Perhaps that's why he doesn't want to flip, he's toast if he does.

[Jakes Progress]

11. He won't flip.

He's waiting for his pardon. (Which he will get)

[unc70]

16. No pardon for State of NY indictments

[Jakes Progress]

38. Then they better get NY charges

on flynn, ivanka, jr., and a dozen others.

[BigmanPigman]

27. Oops, sorry. I was a teacher and should know better but my tablet

auto spellchecker always leaves or creates many errors. I often find that I have to to triple check my writing (even with gmail) yet many errors still get passed over.
I looked at your post and do not see through and throw in it. Did I screw up again? It is late and I have had a very anxiety filled day with the ACA repeal efforts and calling congressmembers.

[StevieM]

30. Actually, I screwed up. I replied to your post rather than the OP.

They are the one who misplaced the homonym.

[BigmanPigman]

32. OK, I feel better. I have been screwing up so much lately.

[StevieM]

33. We are navigating a tough society these days. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Half the country screwed up by voting for Donald Trump.

At least you are doing you part by frequenting the Democratic Underground and contributing to the liberal dialogue.

[WinkyDink]

37. Not to worry! It's a sign o' the times!

[Hekate]

26. Sing like a canary, Manafort

[bagelsforbreakfast]

29. Is it just me or does Manafort dress like Gotti? n/m

[StevieM]

31. This is a good post and very informative. Unfortunately, I am not a normal human being.

I cannot help but tell you that you misplaced a homonym. You wrote "through" instead of "throw."

Just giving you a heads up.