Bernie Sanders: The Current Model of the Democratic Party Obviously Is Not Working

[comradebillyboy]

Bernie Sanders: ‘The Current Model of the Democratic Party Obviously Is Not Working’

After pushing back against Hillary Clinton‘s claim about his support for her in 2016, Bernie Sanders criticized the Democratic party at large on Meet the Press this morning.

Clinton has made a point of saying that Sanders is not a Democrat and doesn’t even ID as one.

Sanders told Chuck Todd, “The current model of the Democratic party obviously is not working. Republicans control the House, the Senate, they control the White House, they control two-thirds of the governors’ offices.”

He said Democrats should do more to reach out to independents.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-the-current-model-of-the-democratic-party-obviously-is-not-working/

[Demit]

1. I can't even.

[left-of-center2012]

2. "He said Democrats should do more to reach out to independents"

How horrible!
Where does he get these ideas?

[oberliner]

9. Independent is a pretty vague term

The independents who voted for Trump are not the same independents who voted for Bernie.

[George II]

180. You meant independents who voted for Clinton, didn't you? Sanders wasn't running against trump.

[oberliner]

188. I meant indepedents who voted for Bernie in the Democratic primaries and caucuses

A number of which were open to non-Democrats.

But also, with respect to the general election, independents who voted for Clinton are not the same types of voters as those who voted for Trump.

[delisen]

3. I'd say the Sanders Progressives model is not working

I think it is imperative to take the battle to the Republican Party.

[ZX86]

26. 80% of Democrats disagree with you. The vast majority.

[Ninsianna]

46. That study keeps being waved around and it's been debunked repeatedly.

It does not reference 80% of Democrats, and it does not say what you claim.

[CherokeeFiddle]

57. Here is another poll just a few days old

From Zogby http://jzanalytics.com/

[Ninsianna]

70. Sure, it still doesn't substantiate the claim that was made. That point was understood

right?

Also, Zogby. So cute, such an impartial dude.

[CherokeeFiddle]

71. I'm just showing ya what I saw

There are several polls out there, this one is just the latest.

[Ninsianna]

73. So you don't understand the point that was being made, how do supposed popularity

polls in which people are asked some silly questions, and asked to pick their favorite among a list of 10 people, some of whom are not politicians mean that x% of Democrats don't like the Democratic Party?

Which of these several polls backs up that claim?

[CherokeeFiddle]

76. Bernie is the the most popular politician who is current serving

There has been several polls showing this.
Here is another recent poll from NBC/Marist done on a more local level in August.

[Ninsianna]

81. Also your link won't open and just set off my anti-virus, doesn't seem to

link to an actual poll either, just a general homepage. (I'm assuming, since you posted a general address not a specific one and my Antivirus is pining, with no page loading.)

Also, this doesn't support the point being made, nor does it address the issues I raised about these popularity polls.

Having a favorable impression of Bernie Sanders doesn't speak to much about him. I had a favorable impression of him as well, but I don't agree with his tactics, think he's the greatest man evah, or believe he's a Democrat, should lead Democrats.

Show me a poll that asks questions about how people feel about what he's doing, how he's doing it, and if they want him to lead a party he refuses to join, then you might have something to back up the claim you seem to be ignoring, though you keep jumping in to back up.

[CherokeeFiddle]

87. Weird

Not sure what to say about that, odd. Ahh I do see that I pasted the link wrong which went to their homepage. Here is the correct link to the poll, sorry about that. https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/794-the-zogby-poll-feel-the-bern-sanders-early-favorite-among-2020-democratic-hopefuls

Perhaps this poll will answer your questions

[Ninsianna]

104. That link was the issue.

This poll doesn't back up your claims either. I understand that Zogby did his best to get the outcome he wanted, but the methodology of the poll really doesn't lend itself to the conclusions you're making.

It's 2017, and these silly popularity contests are essentially meaningless. If nothing else the last election cycle made that abundantly clear.

[Hortensis]

165. +1000. Trash polls are just that.

As for those who grab onto anything that supports preconceptions, GIGO. Garbage ends up stored in memory just as much as valid information and is then referenced in "thinking."

[SunSeeker]

209. Thank you, Ninsianna!

[Demsrule86]

151. While criticzing the Democratic Party, did he have anything to say about saving the ACA and

millions of people who will lose healthcare. We shall see about the popularity issue...seems as if we have conflicting polls.

[CherokeeFiddle]

158. Yes he has been and here is yesterday

Link to tweet

[George II]

167. Two states out of 50, and no indication of who (if any) he's being compared to?

[mythology]

48. And yet when given the chance to vote for him and the chance to vote for those he endorses

voters repeatedly don't vote for him/them in large enough numbers to win.

[shanny]

184. Voters in Democratic primaries.

Democrats are at what % now? 25? 30? of registered voters? This despite the fact that tRump is in the White House.

What percentage of potential voters are registered at all? What percentage of those are independents? I think the answer to the last one is 40-ish%.

So. The question is do you want to grow the Party, or are you content with its current state? If you do want to grow it, what do you think needs to be done? How about appealing to independents, just for starters. my two cents

[delisen]

60. That poll you cite (Mark Penn's) has been debunked

the Harvard in the title is misleading. It is the Harris Survey. It results are "donated" to a non-profit which a Harvard professor heads. Mark Penn, a democratic pollster, now has a gig teaching at Harvard. and he relates to the non-profit.

In any case the poll has nothing to do with my statement about bringing the fight to the Republicans and my perception that Sanders Progressive Model is failing.

[CherokeeFiddle]

62. Here is another poll a few days old

From Zogby http://jzanalytics.com/

My perception is that Bernie's model is winning. He brought in more young voters to the political process than Trump & Hillary combined. That is our future!

At our local meetings, we see a lot of new faces who say that Bernie's caused them to wake up and to get politically active and become engaged.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. Avast says that site is infected with malware.

[CherokeeFiddle]

78. Now that is odd MalwareBytes says nada

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. This is what I get.

This site can’t be reached

The connection was reset.
Try:
Checking the connection
Checking the proxy and the firewall
ERR_CONNECTION_RESET

[CherokeeFiddle]

88. Here try this

I posted a link to their homepage, my bad, sorry.. This is the correct link to the poll https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/794-the-zogby-poll-feel-the-bern-sanders-early-favorite-among-2020-democratic-hopefuls

[Ninsianna]

77. Yet nothing in these popularity polls comments on anything about

Bernie's model (which seems to be attacking, abusing and dividing democrats). He actually disinformed young voters who believed a lot of stupid things online and who are still ranting on about "rigging" and citing wikileaks. These people are not our future. We have to work hard to educate them and correct their ignorant beliefs before they can actually overcome the amount of ratfucking that went on during this election.

I know a lot of people who also credit Bernie and the way he ran his campaign to wake up, become politically active, become engaged, they are really upset about what he and his people have been doing, in this age of Trump and they're working hard for candidates that support Democrats, work on voter suppression and are stepping out on social media to call out the misogyny, the racism and the propaganda they keep seeing their peers falling for.

That's in response to the negativity that this campaign has spread, the abuse they and their peers are still experiencing if they ask questions, dare to question the misogyny or the clear propaganda.

[CherokeeFiddle]

86. I'm going to disagree with you and I'll explain why

What you consider "attacking, abusing and dividing Democrats" is your point of view of course and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, no questions asked. There are though 2 sides of the coin and the other is that Bernie is speaking the truth. We need fixing badly and why fluff it? We have lost 2/3rds of state governorships, millions of registered voters, all of congress and POTUS. Right now it is the worst that it has ever been and we have been bleeding for awhile now, long before Bernie showed up and ran for POTUS.

Some people get offended that Bernie doesn't pull punches where as many of us (myself included) prefer his straight forward, no nonsense approach. We view this is as an asset rather than something that harms. We are in an age when most people don't trust government BUT people do trust Bernie. Connect the dots with that.

From that, that is how we win and gain back all those voters who decided to sit home on election night in November. As far as misogyny is concerned during his campaign in the primaries, we'll differ on that & I am not interested in re-fighting the primaries. The world is burning right now and we have some very big fish fry and that includes getting all the help we can get right now!

That is why Bernie is a massive asset to us. I trust our party leadership, they put him in a leadership position, they know what they are doing.

[Ninsianna]

93. I'm sorry, but the "other side of the" opinion coin is not that "Bernie is speaking the truth"

he's not. I wish he had been, I'd have so much more respect for him if he did, and I started out respecting the guy.

Bernie is ignoring the truth and exploiting anger and ignorance of the actual issues that Democrats have been dealing with. He blames the party for not undoing the damage he did when he told people that things were rigged? How about when he told people not to listen to him? When he failed to explain to them the importance of being registered to vote and voting in EVERY damned election at every damned level because THAT is how we keep losing elections?

It's the worst its ever been after 2 years of telling people the parties are the same, telling them their vote doesn't count, that indulging in selfish, ignorant recklessness like writing in the name of invalid candidates and leaving the whole ballot blank?

He's pulling punches all over the place, it's not straight forward and it's very much nonsense. This is why people are so annoyed with him, we don't consider what he's been doing, what he's been telling people and encouraging an "asset". People don't actually trust Bernie, they just trust him slightly more than Mike Pence and Donald Trump. People don't trust government and the DNC because of things he kept saying, published in his book and his people are constantly yelling about, when offered snacks by people whose meetings they won't attend though invited repeatedly to do so.

We won't win or gain anything back until people start learning the basics of government, how to think critically and learn to differentiate facts from such blatantly moronic lies as "the parties are the same".

The misogyny I refer to was roiling this past week, it's not about the primaries, it's about the present. The world is burning, and the people with the matches and the gas tanks really need to stop insisting that burning is great, because they believe falsely that the flames don't affect them. We've got big fish to fry, but we need to understand that not everyone is interested in helping Dems fry them, some just want to put out the stove, dump out the oil and just yell at people for failing to fry them in just the manner they demand.

Bernie could be a massive asset, he could join the party or barring that, stop with the pointless attacks, the betrayal of the base of the people that make up the party he caucuses with sometimes when he wants to.

Bernie does not trust our party leadership, his people attack it viciously at every turn and he does nothing to curb the viciousness, there is criticism and there is pure blind attacks, they're doing the latter. When anyone even mildly cirticizes or dares to disagree, that's treated as if it's a vicious attack, the double standards are stunning. Republican in their brazenness. We have seen all this before, but not by people claiming to lead the Democratic party by leaving it and demanding we bend the knee to them, while they equate us to Republicans.

I don't trust our party leadership, they keep catering to people whose only goal in life is to attack Democrats and the base that makes the Democratic party function. They need us, they don't need these brats attacking the people in the leadership as if they were in jr. high. That's alienating the party and the people that make it work. This is no helpful.

Bernie needs to actually lead his people if he wishes to be in a leadership role and not be correctly criticized as a divisive force who has no desire to actually fight the enemy. We are not it, he and his people don't seem to realize that.

[CherokeeFiddle]

95. At this stage I think it's better that we

agree to disagree on this. Because we do, completely and there's no sense into getting into a giant flame war when we need to concentrate on Trump.

[Ninsianna]

98. An honest debate is not a flame war. He did what he did he encourages what he

does and disagreeing about his documented and obvious actions is not helpful, but we're not concentrating on Trump, we're dealing with attacks on democrats and divisiveness from those people who would rather embrace Trump and his voters than support Democrats.

Stating these facts shouldn't lead to a "flame war", but that's how toxic an environment we're in thanks to the deliberate actions of a group that spends its time attacking Democrats.

[R B Garr]

120. Excellent post. Obviously this negativity feeds a certain narrative

that he is invested in, but at what and whose expense.

[Eko]

130. Best line.

"We have seen all this before, but not by people claiming to lead the Democratic party by leaving it and demanding we bend the knee to them, while they equate us to Republicans. "

[Madam45for2923]

170. You need your own blog:

93. I'm sorry, but the "other side of the" opinion coin is not that "Bernie is speaking the truth"
View profile
he's not. I wish he had been, I'd have so much more respect for him if he did, and I started out respecting the guy.

Bernie is ignoring the truth and exploiting anger and ignorance of the actual issues that Democrats have been dealing with. He blames the party for not undoing the damage he did when he told people that things were rigged? How about when he told people not to listen to him? When he failed to explain to them the importance of being registered to vote and voting in EVERY damned election at every damned level because THAT is how we keep losing elections?

It's the worst its ever been after 2 years of telling people the parties are the same, telling them their vote doesn't count, that indulging in selfish, ignorant recklessness like writing in the name of invalid candidates and leaving the whole ballot blank?

He's pulling punches all over the place, it's not straight forward and it's very much nonsense. This is why people are so annoyed with him, we don't consider what he's been doing, what he's been telling people and encouraging an "asset". People don't actually trust Bernie, they just trust him slightly more than Mike Pence and Donald Trump. People don't trust government and the DNC because of things he kept saying, published in his book and his people are constantly yelling about, when offered snacks by people whose meetings they won't attend though invited repeatedly to do so.

We won't win or gain anything back until people start learning the basics of government, how to think critically and learn to differentiate facts from such blatantly moronic lies as "the parties are the same".

The misogyny I refer to was roiling this past week, it's not about the primaries, it's about the present. The world is burning, and the people with the matches and the gas tanks really need to stop insisting that burning is great, because they believe falsely that the flames don't affect them. We've got big fish to fry, but we need to understand that not everyone is interested in helping Dems fry them, some just want to put out the stove, dump out the oil and just yell at people for failing to fry them in just the manner they demand.

Bernie could be a massive asset, he could join the party or barring that, stop with the pointless attacks, the betrayal of the base of the people that make up the party he caucuses with sometimes when he wants to.

Bernie does not trust our party leadership, his people attack it viciously at every turn and he does nothing to curb the viciousness, there is criticism and there is pure blind attacks, they're doing the latter. When anyone even mildly cirticizes or dares to disagree, that's treated as if it's a vicious attack, the double standards are stunning. Republican in their brazenness. We have seen all this before, but not by people claiming to lead the Democratic party by leaving it and demanding we bend the knee to them, while they equate us to Republicans.

I don't trust our party leadership, they keep catering to people whose only goal in life is to attack Democrats and the base that makes the Democratic party function. They need us, they don't need these brats attacking the people in the leadership as if they were in jr. high. That's alienating the party and the people that make it work. This is no helpful.

Bernie needs to actually lead his people if he wishes to be in a leadership role and not be correctly criticized as a divisive force who has no desire to actually fight the enemy. We are not it, he and his people don't seem to realize that.

[jmowreader]

100. Cherokee, let me ask you something

Right now we are facing:

Massive, unabashed gerrymandering that spreads Democrats across multiple districts, so we can't build the strength needed to elect Democrats

A huge and unprecented right-wing media apparatus, from guys blogging in their basements to highly sophisticated satellite news operations, who would endorse Idi Amin if he was running as a Republican

Megachurch preachers who tell their flocks one vote for a non-Republican means eternal damnation

And an electorate who only cares about tax cuts.

How, exactly, is remaking this party to suit a guy who spent his honeymoon in the Soviet Union going to reverse any of that?

[George II]

169. Perhaps you should look at the function of of the leadership position they put him in?

[jmowreader]

91. And what percentage of those young people voted Stein in November?

I saw this from a lot of Bernie's supporters in Idaho: "I am voting Trump in November because I will do anything to keep Hillary Clinton out of the White House."

Others voted Stein for the same reason, clear in the knowledge a vote for anyone but Hillary is a vote for Trump.

That's Idaho, where Trump was always going to win. What happened in the swing states Democrats generally won, like PA? Stein was a protest vote against Hillary. With her votes and 25,000 of the "I hate Hillary so bad I'm voting Trump" crowd's votes, we would have had the state.

[CherokeeFiddle]

94. Jill garnered only 1.4% of the total vote

Check this out

More young people voted for Bernie Sanders than Trump and Clinton combined — by a lot

That's a good thing!

As far as Idaho, only 8,496 people voted for her, 1.2% of Idaho's electorate. By comparison, Indy Evan McMullin got 46.476 votes, or 6.7% while Johnson got 4.1%.

https://sos.idaho.gov/elect/results/2016/General/statewide_totals.html


As far as PA goes, I know why we lost but I am not going to re-fight things which is against the rules here

[Ninsianna]

101. Yet somehow Bernie lost by 4 million votes. That's a lot too.

Given that Hillary lost by 77,000 votes, in 3 key states where Jill got more votes than ever, and in which many young people believed the lies fed to them by people telling them the parties were the same, and all sorts of other propaganda from bots online, fake FB pages and people whose aim was to teach us all a lesson by giving us Trump, this is not a good thing.


We know what happened in PA, in MI and WI. In MI we saw the evidence on their actual ballots. When so many forces are out there lying their butts off to young people who don't understand basic facts about how elections work, like who runs the primaries, for example, it's not a good thing at all.

[LenaBaby61]

136. We know what happened in PA, in MI and WI.

We know what happened in PA, in MI and WI. In MI we saw the evidence on their actual ballots. When so many forces are out there lying their butts off to young people who don't understand basic facts about how elections work, like who runs the primaries, for example, it's not a good thing at all.

In the bolded .....

But, how we actually do anything about this in 2020's GE is anybody's guess. This tRumputin Dept. of Homeland Security doesn't give a rat's ass if Democratic votes are collected, counted and aren't purged, crosschecked or voter Id'd off of voting rolls. tRumputin has his fake voting commission co-chaired by racist crook Kris Kobach whereby they're trying to restrict Voting Rights before 2020. We had rulings in Texas by a lower court saying that some districts had to be re-drawn because they were drawn up in a racist way by the GOP. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court put that lower court ruling to redraw those districts on HOLD, and how long the stay holds....Hell, it could be in place up to and past 2018's mid-terms.

[jmowreader]

103. You're not understanding

In 2008 we had a variant of the Bernie Bro called the PUMA - 'party unity, my ass!' They were Hillary supporters who hated Obama. Hillary convinced enough of them that, however bad Obama might be, a Republican president was enough worse that voting for Obama was the better choice. Come 2016, Bernie didn't do that. As a result, votes we needed went to Stein, to Trump, or stayed home because the ONLY reason many of them were in politics was because of Bernie Sanders.

Sorry Cherokee, but Bernie's refusal to convert his base into Hillary voters is the reason we have Neville Chamberlain in the White House today.

[CherokeeFiddle]

105. Most Bernie supporters voted for Hillary

10% did not.

"If my memory is correct in 08 something like 24%of the people who voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary ended up voting for John McCain" -- Bernie Sanders 9/17/2017 Meet The Press

[R B Garr]

106. It only took 70 to 80,000 people spread over about three states to go Trump's way.

That's how few people decided this election. That's why you don't smear the Democratic nominee and the Democratic party and insinuate they are corrupt and out of touch. There is no excuse for it.

[Ninsianna]

114. Most Bernie supporters were going to vote for the Democratic nominee and were proudly saying

so. They were not the "young" ones who were led astray by things the surrogates and the campaign were saying about rigging, and how both parties are the same.

If memory is correct, when asked specifically Bernie failed to do what Clinton did, encourage his voters to support the nominee.

Jane even tweeted out a video the said this and this was a rallying cry for Bernie or Busters, a trademark of Kushner's paper the Observer, which pushes propaganda targeted at Bernie supporters who enjoy and embrace right wing propaganda.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/26/retweet-bernie-sanders-wife-jane-raises-questions/91140254/

[mcar]

141. Nationally, yes

But, she got more votes in Michigan and PA, I believe, than Drumpf took those states by.

[George II]

171. "More young people voted for Bernie Sanders than Trump and Clinton combined"?

How is that possible? They never were in an election together.

[Trumpocalypse]

163. If he wants to change our party

then he should join it. Until then, shut up.

[George II]

166. This again?

[George II]

182. If its the poll that's been posted here about a dozen times already (you don't give details)....

....do you realize that he's the "most popular active politician" from among a cherry-picked 12 "politicians", one of whom isn't even a politician?

[heaven05]

183. NO

most popular with beniesupporters and the rest of the stein-sanders independent-socialists claiming as democrats...period and THAT'S IT!!!

[George II]

112. +1,000,000

[kennetha]

4. let him go start his own party, if he doesn't like ours

[Me.]

52. There You Go !

[CherokeeFiddle]

65. Why are you advocating for a split in the Dem party?

That train of thought would surely allow Republicans to hold a constitutional convention. You want that? I sure don't.

[LuvLoogie]

69. Bernie is not a Democrat.

[CherokeeFiddle]

74. Bernie for all intents and purposes is

Let's be honest here. He has a leadership position within the party, he has caucused with Democrats for decades, he ran as a Democrat.By advocating he start his own party does NOT benefit us in any way, shape or form and would hurt us greatly. As it is now, we are less than 29% of the total electorate and indy are the largest. We NEED them in order to win. Period.

[LuvLoogie]

79. Bernie is the guy who works in a union shop,

gets a union negotiated wage, gets union negotiated benefits, but refuses to join the union. His criticisms are self-serving.

[CherokeeFiddle]

97. Bernie fights for unions!

Bernie is the guy who marches for people wanting to start unions. Hi Nissan auto workers in Mississippi!



Bernie is the guy who marches with fast food workers who want a living wage and want to form a union.




Bernie busts his butt!

[delisen]

133. Wants the benefits but doesn't want to pay the dues

[PubliusEnigma]

126. He sells idealism to naive people. He is not helping.

[CherokeeFiddle]

139. Sorry but I am not naive and millions others aren't either

Please put your personal attacks away.

[George II]

174. His leadership position is not "within the party", it's within the Senate Democratic Caucus...

...and is probably the weakest position of all. In fact, its so minor that he doesn't even mention it on his own website.

[CherokeeFiddle]

175. It is however a leadership position, correct?

Correct. And if he doesn't mention it on his website, that doesn't mean it's because it's weak, a bit of a stretch there don't you think?
You're splitting hairs here. Bottom line; Bernie has a leadership position

[George II]

177. What is that position then? Many people misunderstand what it really is.

[George II]

179. I'll save you the trouble of looking up his position, it's not very well publicized...

Last edited Mon Sep 18, 2017, 01:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Many people think he's Chairman of Outreach as part of the Steering and Outreach Committee. That's not true, he's not even a member of that Committee. Amy Klobuchar is the Chair and Jeanne Shaheen is the Vice Chair.

https://www.dsoc.senate.gov/members/

His position is Chairman of Committee Outreach (not a committee per se), whose function is to communicate the viewpoints of the Committee Chairs to the rest of the Senate Democratic Caucus.

[CherokeeFiddle]

185. Don't forget Bernie is also

the top Democrat on the Budget Committee.

[LuvLoogie]

99. Bernie is not a Democrat, according to Bernie. I'll take his direct words and actions...

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

There IS a Democratic Socialist Party, but Bernie will not run as what you claim he is. He has no relevance without the Democratic Party. He's like your slacker friend who always asks to borrow your car, then tells you how much you car sucks after burning half a tank of your gas.

[CherokeeFiddle]

140. Ok let me ask you something

What is up here with all the anti Bernie sentiment? I'm new and I don't get it. I simply don't. Why the utter disdain aimed at Bernie who is out there bringing issues to the forefront and getting people involved so we can defeat Trump? Isn't that what we want to do, to make sure the GOP dies a horrible death? Did I walk into a Republican stronghold or something?

[LuvLoogie]

147. It's his continual bashing of Democrats,

Even after he was allowed use of the Democratic Party infrastructure and given access to the Democratic ballots, and given a platform at the Democratic debates.

I used to be a fan of his, but realized, after a couple of years of listening to him on Tom Hartmann's Breakfast/Brunch with Bernie, he was answering every question posed to him with the same rote answers. He always talked about what should be, and I agreed with many of his positions, but his ideas aren't anything new.

The question you might ask is what is with all of Bermie's anti-Democratic sentiment? I'll tell you what it is. He wants to sap the Democratic Party of its young voters. He resents the Democratic Party. He never goes on the air without bashing the Democratic Party.

This is The Democratic Underground.

[CherokeeFiddle]

162. Interesting

because many of us see things as the direct opposite as you do.

This though;

He wants to sap the Democratic Party of its young voters.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. If I'm reading it correctly, you're saying Bernie wants to essentially steal young voters from the party, am I correct?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

137. I would agree a major party split is coming for one of the parties.

Why in god's name would we want it to be the Dems. The political ideology that splits (liberal vs conservative) is going to take a decade or two to recover from the split. We need to stay strong and have the Repubs split.

[JI7]

5. You have to consider russian hack, voter suppression and other issues

When it comes to the presidential election. Obama won twice in both his elections and Hillary got millions more votes.

The supreme court striking down voting rights russia Comey and a shit media need to be dealt with more.


When it comes to congress the issue is more of voting in midterms and local and state elections.

[kennetha]

6. Let's see

He was willing to run in the democratic primaries. He thought the democratic nomination for president was worth having. But.... once the party rejected him as our nominee, he decides he's too good for the democratic party?

His way or the highway I guess.

[samnsara]

15. ..and i guess he became an 'expert' on us?

[Beartracks]

119. Well, we consider ourselves to be experts on Republicans, and we're not Republicans. n/t

[Fresh_Start]

7. how many seats in federal and state governments do democratic socialist hold?

not sure that Bernie should keep throwing stones....

[Major Nikon]

21. Not enough

However, in some ways local politics are far more progressive. Even wingnuts are all for democratic socialism so long as it's at the local level. That way we become even more of a country with have and have nots.

[CrispyQ]

59. How many seats did dems lose?

Something's not working!

Dems hit new low in state legislatures
BY REID WILSON - 11/18/16 11:29 AM EST

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/306736-dems-hit-new-low-in-state-legislatures

?itok=Jkh2WwMc

Republicans will control 4,170 state legislative seats after last week’s elections, while Democrats will control 3,129 seats in the nation’s 98 partisan legislative chambers. Republicans picked up a net gain of 46 seats in Tuesday’s elections, while Democrats lost 46 seats, according to the latest vote counts from The Associated Press.

[Bleacher Creature]

8. He's forfeited the right to have a say in changing the party.

Last edited Sun Sep 17, 2017, 01:11 PM - Edit history (1)

If he wants a say in the Democratic Party, he needs to join, which is pretty much the way any organization works.

What's worse is that he did join when he wanted to use the party's infrastructure to run for President, and then bolted first chance he had.

[oberliner]

12. He did change the party

His representatives helped write the party platform leading up to the convention.

[still_one]

36. and then Cornell West essentially told the Democratic Party to FO, and actively campaigned for Stein

Sanders used the Democratic Party to further his political ambitions, because at the first opportunity when he didn't get the nomination he proudly refused to identify as a Democrat

For those who think that wasn't noticed, if he tries that stunt again to run as a Democrat in 2020 for president, I don't think that will work out very well for him among what he likes to disparagingly refer to as the "establishment Democrats"

[oberliner]

43. Very true

That was quite ugly.

[Bleacher Creature]

47. I misspoke. I meant the right "to have a say" in the future of the party.

Sorry for the confusion. And I agree that he helped make the platform better. And then he ditched the party first chance he had.

[George II]

149. If that's the case, that he helped write the party platform, which is the "model"....

...of the Democratic Party, how can he claim that "the current model of the Democratic Party obviously is not working"? It's HIS model, isn't it?

[CherokeeFiddle]

66. Dem leadership fully disagrees with you

[MuseRider]

122. Um, he does not have to be a Democrat

to change the party. I would say he is doing it right now. Provide what the people want when the party does not the pressure will be for the party to change. If it does not and enough people vote otherwise they lose. See. He can change whatever he wants by doing what he is doing. Will it work? Dunno. It certainly seems like he is speaking to the people very well, he is doing the work. Even Schumer likes him enough to give his a place in the party.

Why on earth does anyone think a guy like Bernie would want to be a part of a party that has moved so far to the right, has been losing like mad and would put pressure on him to conform? I want him right where he is. He is starting something. The more he is out there the more eventual movement we will see.

[riderinthestorm]

10. Agreed. Rethugs control Congress, WH, 2/3rds governorships etc

The Democratic party is shrinking. It is time to figure out how to reach our voters.

And stop the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and Russian meddling too while we're at it.

[TCJ70]

13. Yeah I'm confused...

...is our party in a good spot right now?

[samnsara]

17. i FEEL good about it..thats why i scratch my head and wonder..

..what the hell are all these ppl talking about??

[emulatorloo]

41. Well in my humble opinion, Dem losses strarted because they voted for universal healthcare/ACA

Koch Bros etc ran a disinformation campaign with fake grass roots (Americans for Prosperity) and lie ads. It was successful with a number of voters and they believed the bullshit. Only since Trump-care threat have most Americans figured out what Obamacare actually is and now they like it. But in 2010 Koch's etc made Obamacare toxic by lying about it.

I feel like some DU'ers have very short memories, they don't remember that history. I am like you I feel like voters are starting to come around since Trump was elected, less succeptible to lie campaigns from the likes of Republicans, Kochs, Adelsons, maybe even the Mercers.

[shanny]

189. in my humble opinion Dem losses started because they voted for

lame ass non-universal health INSURANCE with no cost controls and no path to actual universal healthCARE.

Pukes are/were going to vilify anything and everything we do so there was absolutely no point to compromising and compromising and compromising to get votes that were NEVER attainable anyway.

We should have written a much stronger and simpler bill...that would also have been far more popular by now.

[emulatorloo]

207. Nah folks voted out Dems because "death panels" "government take over of healthcare" "pull the

plug on grandma" That's the propaganda that was sold that too many voters bought.

I knocked doors and made calls in 2010, nobody said anything like "lame ass non-universal health INSURANCE with no cost controls and no path to actual universal healthCARE."


Surprised you remember none of that.

Here's what I remember about how Obamacare got passed. Yes it was a clusterfuck.

Why?

Because they needed asshole Lieberman's vote to pass it.

Lieberman said kill Public Option or I'll kill Obamacare.

Then some folks proposed Medicare for 55. Lieberman said the same, I'll kill Obamacare.

So there are two things, Public Option and Medicare for over 55 that were government healthcare that a single asshole killed

"Pukes are/were going to vilify anything and everything we do so there was absolutely no point to compromising and compromising and compromising"

Totally agree.

[shanny]

208. who says I remember none of that?

i remember it well, and i remember that asshole lieberman's part too.

you aren't the only one who knocked on doors. i know the pukes lied through their teeth, as they always do. i know the roll-out of the ACA was very slow, and the negative bs had plenty of time to sink in, long before any benefits were widely felt (Medicare otoh was passed in 1965 and implemented in '66). i also know the law is really complicated, means-tested and hurts many with higher incomes, while still being very expensive for those with lower incomes. and of course it keeps the parasitic insurance companies in the mix, with no way out, or forward.

in short it is a lame-ass non-universal health INSURANCE program with no cost controls and no path to actual universal healthCARE. i stand by that, and i also stand by the opinion that passing lame-ass laws hurts us, big time. contrast it with social security, or medicare for all: everybody in, everybody pays. if we want to counter crap like death panels, or soshulism! we need to start with a message--and a program--like that

as for lieberman, the way that asshole was supported in his run in 2006 as an independent party-of-one, after losing the DEMOCRATIC primary, speaks volumes...and didn't that come back to bite us all in the ass. the Democratic Party didn't even take away his committee chairmanship (Homeland Security) after he campaigned for John fucking McCain in 2008! joe lieberman was a poster child for what ails the Democratic Party. my two cents

[emulatorloo]

212. how do you get the impression I thought I was "the only one knocking doors"?

You and I are not "fighting" here. Our goals for healthcare are the same. I'm just talking about my rememberances of Obamacare fight and midterm 2010.

I brought up knocking doors and what I heard in response to you saying voters sat home or voted against Dems in 2010 because Obamacare was a shitty bill. Nobody I talked to said that to me. It was more they bought the Koch Bros line. Dead granny, blah blah.

Just a little side history I am in Iowa, and Koch Bros had targeted Iowa to be their next "success" after they had bought Wisconsin. When had a Dem gov who was excellent. Koch lied that he had run up massive deficits. But the state budget was actually balanced under this Gov. None the less people believed the bullshit and voted the Dem out. Kochs are still pouring tons of money into Iowa.

Yeah they were way too forgiving to Lieberman. Sucks.

[shanny]

213. I apologize.

It still makes me furious and sad that so many opportunities were wasted by us Democrats trying to be bipartisan, and reach across the aisle to a bunch of troglodytes. I do think many of the losses in 2010 could be attributed to money, but also to policy/message: their side was fired up, ours not so much.

peace to you

[emulatorloo]

214. Oh no need to apologize.

Def agree about both policy/message issues. Our messaging has been terrible for so long. We can have great policy but then we're awful at providing memorable rallying cries and powerful simple presentations.

I like Bernie's "Medicare for All" framing cuz it is direct and simple and people understand basically what it means when they hear it.

[emulatorloo]

35. One thing Dems need to do is get off our fat asses and vote in midterm elections.

Republicans always turn out like crazy, Dems not so much.

[GoCubsGo]

206. Yes. Especially in census years.

Which is when redistricting occurs. The vast majority of the party's issues come from everyone staying home in 2010. Which is when the republicans gained their majorities in Congress. Which led to the gerrymandering that snowballed into the oligarchic disaster we have now.

[samnsara]

11. does this mean hes callng himself a democrat now? did he change

affiliations? cuz, I mean, its like a man telling a woman how she needs to behave. Something just aint right about that....and REALLY pisses off the woman.....

[riderinthestorm]

18. He's been appointed a Democratic leadership position

Obviously the party has included him.

[stevenleser]

22. And what is the output of that leadership? In reality, he did all the wrong things right off the bat

prompting his ability to provide leadership for the party to effectively be stripped.

If you are put into a leadership position for an organization that you think is heading in the wrong direction, you roll up your sleeves and work internally to fix whatever processes or issues are wrong.

You don't go on a public campaign to call your organization bad. Even now he continues to do it.

If he is a leader within the organization, fix it, internally.

[Eliot Rosewater]

58. What is so laugh out loud funny is you and I and others cant openly discuss

what is actually happening, HERE

we are so fucked, GOP retains power for sooooooooooo long

[comradebillyboy]

61. Too true...

[sarah FAILIN]

14. As usual comments from outside the party go.

If you want to ride in my boat, get in and row. Don't stand on the pier shooting holes in my boat and acting surprised that I'm sinking.

I'm tired of it. I think there are a whole lot more centrist reps we could attract with normal values than ultra left types that want us to change to suit them. I feel like that is where we went wrong.

[samnsara]

19. im with you there.....100%

[Autumn]

16. He has a point. No one can deny that Republicans control the House, the Senate,

they control the White House, they control two-thirds of the governors’ offices. The only way to change that is to get more voters on our side , we don't want Republicans and we certainly shouldn't appeal to those assholes , the only one logical choice are the Independents. Dems used to reach out to attempt to appeal to them at one time. Democrats hold a 3% edge over Republicans, that's not very much when you consder voters sitting out during the off years.

Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows
42% identify as independents, 29% as Democrats, 26% as Republicans
Independent identification at least 40% for fifth consecutive year
Democrats maintain edge over GOP in party identification and leaning

http://news.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx

[samnsara]

20. lets work on getting those who didnt vote...to vote...

[Autumn]

24. The Republicans do a great job on getting their people out to vote. Our side not so much.

And that is a big reason why they control the House, the Senate, the White House, and two-thirds of the governors’ offices.

2018 will be here very soon. What are we to do

[rainy]

23. All you who dis Bernie please

explain how the Democratic Party has worked to fix voter suppression, voting machines that have no way to verify, huge losses in governorships and local elections, healthcare for the insurance companies, drug costs, campaign finance reform, money out of politics, student debt, cost of college tuition and so on. Their donors make sure they don't accomplish progressive goals.

[Ninsianna]

72. What has Bernie done to do this work? Was he influenced by his donors too?

[rainy]

123. He brought out huge awareness to

progressive issues and excited tons of people who showed up in huge numbers to hear him. And yes he was influenced by his donors who were average folks.

[Ninsianna]

124. So he had some rallies? That's how he addressed voter suppression?

Russian hacking, propaganda?

His donors were not just average folks though, no more so than Hillary's were. The FEC reports make that clear.

You ignored all the things you stated that the DNC had to do, but can't seem to back up Bernie's bonafides on those subjects.

Huge awareness about progressive issues was always there, and the excited tons of people who showed up in huge numbers to hear him didn't come out to vote, and he coudn't or wouldn't excite them enough about progressive issues to actually vote for the only progressive on that ticket, why is that?

[Arazi]

25. Inconvenient truths. I'm glad he has the courage to say this out loud

[monmouth4]

29. Me too..n/t

[Demsrule86]

153. I am sure his criticisms of the Party will cause people to flock to our party and vote for us...oh

yeah.

[Trust Buster]

27. Yet, he won't share his supporter database with the DNC. Go figure.

[comradebillyboy]

31. There it is...he wants to lead a party he

refuses to join or even cooperate with.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

138. So if he doesn't think they are dping the right things,

why would he give them a list of people to do the wrong thing with?

[Trust Buster]

150. Because winning in 2018 is his only chance to forward his agenda ?

[Demsrule86]

154. 18 will not move our agenda...Trump is president until 20 or Pence...who knows

And if we lose health care, the shit will hit the fan. He should be talking health care all the time...not criticizing the party.

[JI7]

28. Obama won both his elections. Maybe they need more free traders like Obama

Gore and kerry were also more pro free trade than Hillary and they won Michigan, Wisconsin, and pennsylvasnia.

[rainy]

45. Obama won because progressives

came out in droves believing he'd be different. Gave him two terms. When progressives lose hope democrats lose. Wake up Dems and honor your huge base. End money in politics for the better good!!!!

[JI7]

50. They are not progressive if they did not vote for the democrat to try to stop an openly bigoted

candidatd

We see trump trying to undo all the progressive things Obama did.

If someone did not vote for democrats they are scum who enjoy the muslim ban and seeng daca kids suffer. They certainly are not progressive.

[R B Garr]

30. Did Bernie mention that the Russia Today "employees" are really Foreign Agents?

The U.S. Justice Department is requiring that the "associates" on the Russia Today network be required to register as Foreign Agents. All the people who maligned our GE candidate on that show should show their tax returns.

http://www.newsweek.com/rt-russia-today-spies-foreign-agents-registration-act-sputnik-trump-mike-flynn-663094

[murielm99]

32. And Bernie should show his tax returns, too.

[R B Garr]

111. Absolutely, this is long, long overdue.

This is just basics. If you claim to hold yourself as a moral authority over others, then you should be transparent yourself.

[Ninsianna]

34. I know that people finally got angry when Trump went on RT with Larry King

was there even a peep about any other candidates who went on RT, or who were supported by many programs on RT?

I'm wondering, why the double standards?

[R B Garr]

107. I wonder about the double standards myself.

There is no excuse for allowing this deception and undermining to continue.

[Ninsianna]

109. None at all.

[JI7]

37. Jill Stein is a Putin Troll

[R B Garr]

113. She sure is a Putin troll. She should show us her taxes, too. Someone who excoriates

American politicians and American business with such flippancy needs to be scrutinized herself. She obviously has no problem with oligarchs after all if she pals around with Putin.

[BainsBane]

40. +1000000000000000000000000000000000000

[deerheadgal]

44. Agree totally

Bernie is the new Ralph Nader.

[comradebillyboy]

56. Bingo!

[Me.]

53. Brilliant & Fabulous

[comradebillyboy]

55. Excellent post!

[MrsCoffee]

84. Very well said.

[TeamPooka]

89. yup

[BainsBane]

38. This is the "unity" that we couldn't allow to be interrupted by Clinton's book.

Thanks for pointing about that excuse was pure undulterated bullshit.

Every general election is about reaching out to independents. That's the fucking point of them.

But then, he wasn't talking about general elections.

[Smickey]

39. I thought we were the "big tent" party?

We don't have to all agree on all issues....do we?

[SaschaHM]

42. "You guys lost Independents to a party to the right of you. Come over to the left some more"

Republicans gained control by advocating relentlessly about getting government out of the health care system and then they gerrymandered a map more favorable to them. He's basically screaming that the victim died of cholera before even reading the autopsy results.

[Lil Missy]

49. Go start your own Party bernie.

[CherokeeFiddle]

68. Please stop advocating for a split in our party

This isn't good. It would allow the GOP to hold a constitutional convention. I sure as hell do not want that ever.

[jmowreader]

92. A constitutional convention would fail

There are probably 20 sane states. To completely shut down this time wasting convention, we need to put into play a Second Amendment repeal, protection of same sex marriage, a ban on ceding federal land to the states, Roe v Wade enshrined in the Constitution, the Nixon-era tax rates codified as Holy Writ, and a bunch of other stuff they'll never go for. And then enough delegates walk out to go below quorum when we don't get it all.

[CherokeeFiddle]

161. I don't think it would fail at all

These assholes are already planning it as evidence last week in AZ .
27 states have already approved it. They are getting very close.

[Lil Missy]

148. bernie needs to hear that advice, not me.

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. If I said that here about the party would I get a hide? I should, I think

And yet I cant talk about what he is doing here without being silenced or possibly banned
The GOP will retain all power, and I will keep telling you why that is and I will keep getting told I cant talk about it.


If we openly criticized the party to this degree, wouldnt we properly get a hide here? Well, I guess it depends on who is on the jury, but if PRO Democratic Party people were on the jury, that is.

[aikoaiko]

54. Bernie speaks for me and people like me.

Thanks, ComradeBillyBoy!

[comradebillyboy]

67. I don't agree with Bernie...he doesn't speak for me...

I simply posted this, without comment, because it's a matter of general interest here at DU.

[JI7]

63. Why does he think Mello and Quist lost ?

[Weekend Warrior]

64. This from one of the least successful career politicians out there.

Sanders/Stien are not helping the left.

[leftofcool]

83. Why has this been posted 3 times already?

[Adrahil]

85. More divisive bullshit.

Bernie has done more to demoralize Democrats than right wing talking heads.

[TeamPooka]

90. We need closed primaries, not open caucuses.

[randr]

102. If any segment of our political system is failing to work

it would be the few independents who won't play team ball and just stand around bitching.

[leftstreet]

108. DURec

[George II]

115. To quote Jonathan Capehart from AM Joy yesterday morning:

"I wish he would join the Democratic Party so he would actually have some standing to talk about how to rearrange the furniture in OUR house"!

[aikoaiko]

121. Is that the same Capehart who accused Bernie's campaign of misrepresenting a photo,

...but the authenticity of the photo and Bernie being in it was confirmed by the photographer and other photos? If so I'm not sure his opinion of Bernie is to be trusted.

Would you be any more receptive to Bernie if he had a D by his name?

I don't see his party membership changing his message or how it is received.

[R B Garr]

128. As usual, that wasn't the sequence of events and he didn't "accuse" anyone.

Capehart had asked his campaign to verify if that was indeed Bernie in the picture, but they never did confirm it. Bernie's identity was questioned because of someone's ex-wife/widow whose husband was at that rally and said that might not be Bernie in the picture. THAT'S IT. Capehart was harassed incessantly after that on his Twitter page, which is why he held up his phone that way today during this morning's show.

It's amazing how things get twisted out of proportion.

[aikoaiko]

135. No, I think I'm closer to representing Capehart's behavior

I'll just let people read the words for themselves.

Here is the Capehart piece accusing Bernie and his campaign of wrongdoing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/02/11/stop-sending-around-this-photo-of-bernie-sanders/?utm_term=.85d63d359fb8

Here is the article definitively showing the picture was of Bernie and Capehart should have simply asked the photographer.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/13/1484738/-Sanders-Photographs-Civil-Rights-and-Responsible-Reporting-An-Update

My point of all this is not to refight the primary, but say that I have current trust issues surrounding Capehart and I will question his motivations about the things he says now.

[R B Garr]

143. Wrong. It says right in your first link that Tad Devine was asked about it a year before.

He never did look into it. Capehart wrote about it because there was no response. That is the sequence of events. And that was because at that period in time, his campaign was using that picture a lot. It's not unusual for a journalist to ask for verification of a picture, especially when people who were there at the time (through the widow/ex-wife) were refuting it was him.

Did you see him on AMJoy today? edit-if journalists are going to be accused of wrongdoing -- this is a current reference on AMJoy about Capehart from this morning's show about being ready for twitter attacks (he held up his phone to Joy this morning after she joked with him)

[aikoaiko]

144. Asking for verification is fine, but Capehart ended up making a judgement...

...about the picture and even went so far to say Bernie wasn't there (saying he was there in spirit only).

Capehart ended up being corrected by the photographer and details of the photos supported the photographer.

It's that simple.

[R B Garr]

146. The verification was never provided, so Bernie wasn't "judged" out of

thin air. Former colleagues were saying it wasn't Bernie, and that is the sequence of events. Looks like a lot of people were "corrected", including Tad Devine for not simply verifying the picture almost a year prior.

[George II]

131. I'm not sure, but Jonathan Capehart isn't a common name so if that happened I guess it was him....

....are we going to relive every quote by anyone over a year or so ago?

Fact remains, Capehart has a point - much more can be accomplished by an individual from INSIDE an organization than from outside, don't you think?

[aikoaiko]

134. No I don't think one must be on the inside to accomplish more.

Once you're in an organization, there can be many ways that the status quo pressures insiders to maintain the status quo.

Sometimes it takes an outsider to see things more clearly and speak more directly.

[George II]

142. I've seen the term "status quo" used a lot in these forums and have asked several times....

...what the definition of that term is as it's used here. Never got an answer. What exactly is the "status quo" of which you speak?

Thanks.

[aikoaiko]

145. I'll give you an example..

The status quo of the Democratic party is that we are doing fine -- we just to need to get out the vote and let the demographic shifts sweep us into offices.

[lapfog_1]

116. As soon as Bernie becomes a Democrat

I'll listen to his critiques of the democratic party

[andym]

117. It's not so much what Democrats have done wrong, but what the GOP has done right

The Democratic Party has been on a losing arc since 2010, with the exception of President Obama's re-election. With a huge majority in the House, a small majority in the Senate and 2/3 of state houses in GOP control, things really have changed since 2008, when things were polarized in the Democratic Party's favor. Why?

It's not so much that Democrats have made mistakes, but that the GOP has been proactive.

Why increasing influence of Fox news have pushed the country rightwards:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016192851
"A stunning new study shows that Fox News is more powerful than we ever imagined"
GOP gained over a 6% voter advantage attributable to Fox in 2008...
Fox's influence reinforces GOP/conservative influence from talk radio and conservative internet sites.
Basic point, is that GOP is propagandizing their anti-government beliefs far better than Democrats or even Democratic Socialists like Bernie are promoting their pro-government solutions, which will eventually doom progressive legislation.

Much much better organization at the local level, due to
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016164776
"Democrats are losing to Republicans at the state level, and badly. Here's why."
Basically, the Koch brother's organizations are executing a master plan to gain GOP dominance
"THE RIGHT-WING NETWORKS ARE A WELL-OILED MACHINE: ALEC PUSHES PROPOSALS WITHIN STATE LEGISLATURES; THE STATE POLICY NETWORK BUILDS THE INTELLECTUAL AND POLICY CASE FOR THOSE BILLS; AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY THEN GENERATES OUTSIDE POLITICAL PRESSURE, THROUGH ADS AND GRASSROOTS ORGANIZING "

A plan to get control in 2010 in order gerrymander election districts for a generation.
(see post just above for how)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141806934
"AP analysis shows how gerrymandering benefited GOP in 2016"

Resulting in this problem:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016183787
Two-thirds of Americans think that the Democratic Party is out of touch with the country
Why? See all the points above.
Disbelieve this kind of poll at one's own peril.

So what's the solution? An organized effort to promote Democratic ideas, a combination of progressive and moderate ideas that appeal to people's sense of how the country might be better than it is. The first point is to convince people the federal government can be benevolent and extremely capable, sometimes even more capable than private enterprise. For example, combining helping people create and grow small businesses while providing a means to affordable universal health care.

[Spider Jerusalem]

118. Yeah, clearly...

Democrats need to be a lot more ruthless about partisan gerrymandering when they control state legislatures. And they also need to find ways to effectively disenfranchise likely Republican voters (the way three-strikes laws, felony disenfranchisement, racially-biased law enforcement and voter ID laws disenfranchise large numbers of likely Democratic voters).

[PubliusEnigma]

125. The Democratic Party will be just fine without Bernie Sanders.

[BainsBane]

129. Not this Democrat

[CherokeeFiddle]

159. No we won't be

and many of us won't be either.

Millions would leave the party and we certainly can't afford that. Bernie brought in more young voters to our party than anybody else in history. That's a reality and to advocate tossing all these people asides would ensure a slaughter house during elections.

[ucrdem]

127. Meanwhile he's pushing his MFA bill hard on his Twitter feed

without mentioning the ACA even once (yes I did a search):

https://twitter.com/SenSanders

Not helpful.

[Demsrule86]

191. That just makes me ill...he is basically putting out his own repeal bill at crucial moment in saving

the ACA...and his bill has no chance...How many people would die?

[ucrdem]

197. Weaponized baloney

aimed squarely at the working poor he claims to speak for. That's who will suffer if the ACA gets eviscerated. It's completely unconscionable but he know he'll never be held to account for any of it.

[Demsrule86]

198. I know...but damn it, he should.

This is real live...people will die.

[Snackshack]

132. Captain Obvious...

He is right Dems need to reach out to all voters, not just independents.

[CherokeeFiddle]

160. I will keep cheering him on

and he can talk as much and as loudly as he wishes to. We're listening closely.

[Demsrule86]

192. He has the right to talk...I have the right to ignore him, and I will. I am a Democrat.

I will vote for Democrats.

[CherokeeFiddle]

196. Cool same here

Would you vote for Kim Davis?

[Demsrule86]

199. Firstly, read TOS. Your comment is insulting especially as my daughter is a lesbian...secondly,

I wonder if those who voted for (vomit) Stein, a Gorilla, Trump or stayed home understood the danger they placed my daughter and others in by not voting for the Democratic candidate. Michigan just made a law that EMT's don't have to treat Gay people. The police brown shirts are beating old women and others practically to death in Missouri. I would vote for a yellow dog before a Republican or a third party/independent candidate who generally only helps elect Republicans (not talking about Sen. Sanders who wins and has caucused with the Democrats at least).

[CherokeeFiddle]

204. As a gay POC myself, not sure what was so offensive?

I read the TOS. What part specifically are you talking about?

The law in Michigan actually happened some time ago. HB 5958 was in 2014. Also be aware that Snopes rates it with a "mixture" rating due to so much disinformation out there about it. Bill's like that though should burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. I think most people would vote like you do as nobody I know is interested in GOP crap.

[bigtree]

164. neither is that independent thing he's clinging to like some inviolate virtue

...but he was just fine using our party's banner when he ran for president.

I think the thing that bothers Sanders most about the Dem party is we don't usually follow his lead. That's more his problem than ours.

[MrsCoffee]

172. Just read in GD that Sanders is considered the leader of the party.

If that is true, then it's time for new leadership. The failed model is the divisive bullshit we've been putting up with for years now. So much could actually be accomplished without the constant demonization of the party as a distraction.

[Madam45for2923]

173. MSM loves to keep a narrative that denigrates & demoralizes DEMS.

They did so all of last year and have not let up.

[George II]

181. Very good point. On the one hand people here are saying he's the leader of the party....

....(I don't agree) and on the other hand they're saying that the party model is a failure. If one connects the two (I'm not necessarily doing that), could that mean that his leadership has failed?

[Orsino]

176. The truth hurts.

The brief statement, however, fails to acknowledge some reasons why Dems don't hold majorities everywhere.

Republican cheating and corporate media lies are not quite the fault of the Democratic Party. Nothing good can work reliably in the current environment...but that can't change without winning a lot more Democratic voters.

The sound bite may get a rise out of us, but there's an essential truth we ought not to keep ignoring.

[LexVegas]

178. I remember the dismissal of minority voices during that one's campaign.

Don't care what he has to say.

[melman]

186. Never happened

[shanny]

187. Y'know, this could potentially be helpful

if anyone--ANYONE--focused on the point instead of who made it.

We lost to donald fucking trump. Even factoring in a lot of fucking help from many sources, we lost to a dishonest carnival barker. And we lost something like a 1000 state legislative seats and i don't know how many--but too many--house and senate seats and governorships in the past 10 years.

can we PLEASE focus on the whys and wherefores of that, instead of bernieberniebernie all the time?

[MrsCoffee]

190. We would love to focus on the whys and wherefores, but then we are told to look forward not back.

Can't win for trying around here.

[Demsrule86]

193. I have no interest in any of this. If Sen. Sanders wishes to join the party, I am sure he will be

welcomed, however, as an independent, he doesn't get a say in how the party is run.

[shanny]

195. why is any of this about Bernie? at all?

[Demsrule86]

200. Did you read the post? Sen. Sanders made negative comments about the Democratic Party.

[shanny]

205. So what?

Plenty of people make negative comments about the Democratic Party.

Is the Democratic Party perfect? Does it merit some criticism? Can there be improvement? Those are the important questions, not whether Bernie Sanders hurt some people's feelings, and whether he has any right to say anything, ever.

That is all.

[Scoopster]

201. The model he created.

Bernie's chosen representatives had control of the DNC platform and rules committees. They made significant changes to both. Then Bernie and all the rest quit & started attacking the changes they made

If it's not working, then it's their own damn fault.

[HarmonyRockets]

211. Huh?

When did they attack their own changes? What are you talking about?

[OhZone]

202. Maybe being a spoiler is why it isn't working. nt

[HarmonyRockets]

210. How is he "being a spoiler?"

[Sunlei]

203. while Ds focus on purity tests, Republicans ruin our lands one small bill at a time. RECORDED VOTE

RECORDED VOTE 13-Sep-2017 Polis of Colorado Amendment No. 76, Republican Noes-211


http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll491.xml#NV Democratic Ayes- 185