If Kamala doesnt support single payer, some of you wont support her?

[Eliot Rosewater]

I read a comment that she now supports this and therefore will get this person's support.

I would be curious to know who here would likely not be wiling to support her if she doesnt sign on to this bill that will NOT become law for at least 2 years and likely more. I guess she says she supports it now, what happens when it fails and is brought up again and she doesnt support it, possibly?



Are there other "lines in the sand?"

[Docreed2003]

1. The only line should be...are you a democrat, yes or no!

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Ahh, my grasshopper, you learn well.

Trust me though, that AINT the only line, sadly.

[Docreed2003]

8. Hopefully all of us will learn that lesson before it's too late!

[underthematrix]

6. Yes AMEN to that. ONLY vote for DEMOCRATS

You don't have to phuck 'em, feed 'em or love 'em. Just vote for them

[Docreed2003]

9. Lmao....

I literally snorted to that! Best phrase ever

"You don't have to phuck 'em, feed 'em, or love 'em! Just vote for 'em"!!!

[Voltaire2]

16. So there are no issues that you consider important enough?

Supports tax cuts for the rich: fine with you.
Supports banning all abortions: no problem.
Supports overturning marriage equality: ok.
Supports repealing the ACA: on our team so our guy.
Supports drastic cuts to or elimination of social security: got a 'D' so good with me.

I could go on. Nothing? Not one issue?

[underthematrix]

25. How about retaining my right to vote

i start with that because if I don't have that it doesn't matter whose running.

DEMOCRATS don't want to give tax cuts to the rich.
They don't want to take away a woman's right to choose
They don't want to destroy the public education system
They don't want to defund government out of existence
I don't have to agree on how we implement a democratic and progressive policy agenda but I do have to agree with the values that under lie a democratic and progressive policy agenda.

That's why it's DEMOCRATS only

We can argue over the policy details AFTER we regain control.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. Yes, you could go on and on about this fictional democrat who does not exist

anywhere on planet earth and never will.

Even if one did exist, they would NEVER get ANYWHERE near being our nominee for anything important.

Next?

[Voltaire2]

41. " The only line should be...are you a democrat, yes or no!"

Nope. Doesn't work for me. I'm a Democrat because of the issues not because of the label.

[Eliot Rosewater]

42. I know, I really do. You would leave trump in power if the democratic candidate

did not check all the boxes.

If the human race is to survive, you better be in a very tiny minority.

[Voltaire2]

44. No, I would not vote for a Democrat who checked a box I cannot tolerate.

Do you understand the difference?

[Eliot Rosewater]

45. Ooh boy do I .

[Docreed2003]

32. Please show me a single...just one...Democrat running for office

That would support those issues, much less win a Democratic primary. I'll hang up and wait!

[Voltaire2]

43. But that is not what you said.

You said: "The only line should be...are you a democrat, yes or no!".

So are you now amending that to be "as long as they support <insert your red line here>"?

[Docreed2003]

48. And I'm calling your argument ridiculous...

You know damn well that no Democract would ever run on the issues you are hypothesizing. As a party, fighting between centerists and the left is healthy, as long as that fight doesn't carry over to the general election. A vote for a Democrat will always beat a vote for a Republican.

[Voltaire2]

53. Joe Donnelly.

Endorsed by Democrats for Life. An anti-abortion Democratic Senator from Indiana. If I were living in Indiana I could not vote for him. That issue is a red line for me.

Joe Manchin - couldn't vote for him either. Another anti-abortion Democrat.

[Docreed2003]

68. Please reread my post...

I'm asking for one Democrat who fits all of those points! Plus, I've never seen a democrat run in a general election that came out and said "I will fight with my very being to remove a woman's right to choose". Biden and Kane are both pro-life in the sense that they personally are against abortion but put their role in governing ahead of their personal religious beliefs. So again, I'm asking for one example of a Democrat that would run on the points you listed.

[Voltaire2]

69. Please re-read your own post. And then re-read my response.

Here I'll help.

You:

The only line should be...are you a democrat, yes or no!

Me:

So there are no issues that you consider important enough?

Supports tax cuts for the rich: fine with you.
Supports banning all abortions: no problem.
Supports overturning marriage equality: ok.
Supports repealing the ACA: on our team so our guy.
Supports drastic cuts to or elimination of social security: got a 'D' so good with me.

I could go on. Nothing? Not one issue?

I'm glad we agree that there is at least one issue that would be a red line for you. Right?

[NurseJackie]

34. LOL! That's a scary Democrat... who is it? Who? Tell me... WHO?

[Voltaire2]

40. A categorical statement was made.

No issue matters. I find that incomprehensible. It seems you don't.

[NurseJackie]

47. LOL! "What-if" games are funny!

[Docreed2003]

49. Still waiting for my list NJ

[NurseJackie]

52. I'm right there with you...

[Voltaire2]

54. So you agree that the list I posted are red lines for you as well?

That any Democrat who holds any of those positions crosses a line for you too?

[NurseJackie]

55. LOL

[Voltaire2]

58. Oh so you've realized your mistake.

I'm laughing too.

[NurseJackie]

60. LOL! Actually, the mistake is yours. (Word games are fun!)

[George II]

89. If there is a Democrat that is in favor of one or two of your five issues, and a republican who...

...is in favor of all five, you still wouldn't vote for that Democrat?

[Voltaire2]

90. I might. It would depend.

Both candidates would be unacceptable, so it would be degree of unacceptability.

Now it's your turn: it is the Democratic who is in favor of all five and the Republican who only supports one or two.

For me issues matter, teams not so much.

[KTM]

19. Lieberman/Manchin 2020!!

Nah, when sizing up candidates I'll use a more detailed measuring stick, thanks.

[Cary]

33. But, but, but ...

Hillary's email.

[wasupaloopa]

3. She stated publically that she supports

Medicare for all.

We in CA really like Kamala Harris and it feels bad to read jabs at her from folks who don't know her like we do.

In my opinion she is more progressive than Hillary which should bring a lot of folks into her camp.

I think some of the jabs are just those folks MO.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. We could debate which one of the two are technically more liberal

but it is so close it is barely worth discussing.

Kamala is a liberal, I like her.

[Expecting Rain]

39. It begs the question of whether candidates are "more liberal" when...

they move towards more "leftist" positions or become less "liberal" when they move away from liberal positions?

Either way, both HRC and Kamala Harris are top-notch Democrats in my book. It has been gratifying to see Kamala Harris rise in the party. She's terrific!

[SaschaHM]

4. The goal post will move by 2020.

It always does.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. Thus why I am asking, if we know NOW which issues exactly, the stance

of the issue, she has to adopt, maybe we can warn her.

[SaschaHM]

15. Just figure out what Sen. Harris isn't for and make a list of those things.

They'll suddenly become factors of concern in 2020 after/during a primary. And if her husband has/had a legislative record, take that into account as well.

[Autumn]

10. Since she already supports Bernie's single payer bill does that mean some of you wont support her?

The winds will always blow away lines in the sand.

[Eliot Rosewater]

13. I dont know a single democrat or liberal who would EVER not support whoever the

democratic candidate is, not EVER.

Now there are others who do that, but not one democrat or liberal that I know of.

And if there are some, SURELY after what happened there arent anymore.

No, I think the real problem is the reverse.

[Autumn]

22. People seem to be hung up on candidates, this is not about a candidate, it's about important issues

for the American people and so far most of the Dems are on board. Senator Harris is not a candidate, she is a United States Senator working her butt off for the American people.

[Eliot Rosewater]

24. Remarkable how you can twist what I am talking about and

asking about.

For me it is simple, I will support any democrat for any office, period.

[WoonTars]

11. A woman's right to choose is an absolute line in the sand for me personally...

...

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. Understandable, there is no chance in hell ever whoever our candidate is for prez

would not support women's rights so I think we are safe there.

of course Kamala herself would never not.

[BannonsLiver]

12. The kind of people who agree with a pol on 99 percent of the issues

Yet fixate on the 1 percent they don't agree with them on.

Lots of that going around these days.

[lunatica]

14. I'll support her no matter what

I'm from California and very, very happy with her.

[HarmonyRockets]

20. Do you mean

supporting her in the primaries, or in the general? Because if you mean the general election, well of course I would vote for her over the orange fascist no matter what. As far as the primaries go, yes, she very well could be the candidate I support now that she supports the single payer bill. Of course, it depends on who else is running too. If she somehow changes her position (I don't see that happening), then I would probably be supporting someone else.

I want Hillary Clinton to be the last Democratic nominee ever to run against single payer. Running on single payer should be a requirement for every Democratic nominee for now on, IMO. I know there are a lot of centrists on this board still against it, but it's just my opinion. I'm not being a "purist," I just think every person should have the right to healthcare.

[NanceGreggs]

46. Hillary ran AGAINST single-payer?

When was that?

[HarmonyRockets]

50. Are you kidding?

It was one of the biggest dividing issues in the Democratic primaries.

[NanceGreggs]

57. Uh, nope.

She said that BERNIE's single-payer plan would "never, ever happen".

You'll note that only those words, "never, ever happen" are in quotes, while the rest of the headline is NOT a direct quote. That's because she didn't say that single-payer itself would never happen.

The very first paragraph in the article you're citing is:

"Just a few days before the Iowa caucuses, Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton stressed to voters in Des Moines just how unfeasible she considers her opponent Bernie Sanders' plan to pursue a single-payer health care system."

Nice try - but no cigar.

[HarmonyRockets]

66. So...

She didn't support a single payer healthcare bill--the one Bernie supported or any other. I don't see how you discounted what I originally said. She did not run on single payer.

[NanceGreggs]

72. Uh, nope again.

What you originally said was: "I want Hillary Clinton to be the last Democratic nominee ever to run against single payer."

She didn't run against single-payer, did she? THAT was your original contention, which was totally false.

I didn't discount what you originally said - I merely pointed out what you DID say, now that you're trying to backtrack and insist you said something completely different.

[StevieM]

73. What you originally said was that she ran against single payer. In my mind that is very different

than not running on single payer.

[George II]

87. Sorry, that's an illogical conclusion. Just because she didn't support a particular single payer...

...plan that means she doesn't support single payer?

To use a baseball fan analogy:

A Red Sox fan says he doesn't support the NY Yankees. Using the logic above, that means that he doesn't support baseball. Certainly not true.

[StevieM]

75. Excellent post. And the writer of that article was deliberately trying to deceive people. (eom)

[NanceGreggs]

76. Yes, they were.

And yet so many people were more than willing to pick it up and run with it - if it served their particular agenda.

[George II]

88. She didn't run against "single payer", in fact she didn't run against Sanders' single payer....

...she just pointed out that his proposal would not get passed. In a sense she was saying that sometime, some day "A" single payer plan would happen.

To be honest, it's clear that the plan proposed on Wednesday will never ever get passed. Not now, because of the makeup of the Congress and the president, and probably not in the future because it is incomplete. Congress, even a Democratic Congress, will not pass a bill that doesn't include a method of funding it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

63. wrong

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-health-care-public-option.html?mcubz=0

[HarmonyRockets]

64. Right

So basically, she did not run on single payer.

[Eliot Rosewater]

65. Wait, are you now saying any candidate who does not run on single payer you wont vote for?

[HarmonyRockets]

67. No

I will not vote for a Democratic candidate in the primaries that does not support a single payer system.

[Maven]

21. Sen. Harris will stick to her word

Whether the bill has any chance of passing, well, that's another story.

[BainsBane]

23. Let's not pretend

Her position on single payer or any other issue has anything to do with the opposition toward her.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. You know what is funny about that?

While we both know what and who you are talking about, believe it or not there are actually 20 somethings, mostly new voters, or they were last year anyway, who actually believe that these purity tests are necessary and correct.

Which is almost worse.

Who actually believe that no matter who the candidate is, if they dont tow the line set forth by a certain politician or the groups that have sprung up from that movement that there is no way they could vote for them.

Who will actually either NOT vote or vote 3rd party EVEN with someone like trump as the alternative. STILL.

Isnt that even MORE FRIGHTENING?

I mean I know how to deal with racism and misogyny, sort of, but THAT?

[BainsBane]

29. purity tests that are infinitely flexible

and exclude major issues, like gun violence and genocide; immunity for gun corporations; defense spending; big sugar; civil rights; reproductive rights; immigration; voting rights; and just about anything that doesn't prioritize the white, male middle class over the majority of the population.

[safeinOhio]

26. I can see her winning

with 60% of the popular vote, no EC stealing the election.
Many if not all of those that voted for trump did it to piss off us normal people. Can't wait to see how pissed they will be with a Black Female as the leader of the Free World.
Damn I'm excited about her.

[Adrahil]

28. Not nuts about single-payer as proposed...

But I think Harris' support is more symbolic than substantive at this point. The current palm is the usual "magic wand" approach, but it will not pass this Congress anyway.

[Eliot Rosewater]

30. Oh hell no, for us to get this, sadly, we have so much work to do it is

crazy.

I mean you have to

a. reverse gerrymandering, otherwise a single payer bill will NEVER be put forth in the House

b. elect more senators otherwise, see above

[Demsrule86]

35. Not me...I will vote for the Democrat...and I think it is stupid to go for

single payer and not try to fix the ACA...there is no way we will get it until we have a super majority and even then and it could end up like Hillarycare...costing us the next election and not being passed anyway. Health care has never been good for any party that proposed a new plan or screwed with a plan already in force. Save the ACA and see what happens.

[Wounded Bear]

36. I, personally, am not a big believer in litmus or purity tests...

I try not to criticize those that do, because I believe they mean to support what they think is best for the country, which is a good thing. I'm not a single issue voter.

[Eliot Rosewater]

37. I do like to criticize them.

The idea that one would allow a pile of human feces to destroy the human race because one of their issues was not met, is insane.

[Iggo]

38. Sen. Harris.

[Amishman]

51. I would prefer if she was not our candidate because of several factors

She has some baggage from her AG days (the Prime Healthcare lawsuit) and her support of gun bans won't play well in MI, WI, FL, PA and other swing states like them.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. ...

[dawg]

59. I'm going to vote for the more liberal of the two major party candidates.

For the foreseeable future, I can't imagine that ever being anyone other than the Democrat.

[JNelson6563]

61. Keyboard commandos only know lines in the sand.

that's the beauty of drawing your lines in the sand. You can keep making new ones.

Fuck the puritans.

[Raine]

62. I want to see who else is running, keeping options open. It's

too early, no one has even announced yet.

[samnsara]

70. i will support any dem....funny how some ppl forget who is prez now.

[Eliot Rosewater]

71. They didnt forget, many of them didnt care before, dont care now

[BannonsLiver]

78. Some actually embrace it

The whole "fire is cleansing" school of thought. See: Susan Sarandon.

[Voltaire2]

80. Just a reminder Trump was a Democrat a few years ago.

[BannonsLiver]

81. And?

[WinkyDink]

83. So was Giuliani. Your point? That he's not Republican? Then pray tell us how

Trump's tax cut proposal, his immigration policies, his environmental decisions, his Cabinet appointments, AND HIS ATTEMPTS TO OBLITERATE EVERYTHING OBAMA DID....

are Democratic.

We'll wait.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a golf cart!

[Victor_c3]

79. Nope, you gotta draw a line somewhere

If we keep allowing our beliefs to be diluted then we end up with more DINOS and republican-lights as candidates. We all saw how elections with those sorts of candidates end for us...

[Eliot Rosewater]

84. So you will not vote for a Democrat in the November elections if they dont check

off all your boxes?
Yes or no, it matters because of the rules here.

Which is really not why I started all this, but I have NO problem finding out who is who here.

[Victor_c3]

86. Come November I'll vote for whoever is the the colum for the Dems

But I will not apologize for not standing behind a certain candidate during the primaries and rigorously disliking the vote i'm forced into making.

Clinton being a perfect example. I thought she was a lousy candidate before the primary, during the primary, and during the GE. However I selected her name in the voting booth this last election. It wasn't so much as a vote for her, but a vote against trump.

There are certain things candidates do that are automatically disqualifying. Supporting a war on Iraq and then taking more than a decade to realize it was a mistake before giving a half added apology is one of those things. Healthcare is another.

[WinkyDink]

82. Did I sleep through the 2020 Primaries?

[JoeStuckInOH]

85. Not in the Primaries...