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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsClinton: I Urged 08 Supporters to Back Obama, Didnt Get That Respect from Sanders
[link:https://www.mediaite.com/tv/clinton-i-urged-08-supporters-to-back-obama-didnt-get-that-respect-from-sanders-and-his-supporters/]
Wasn't Hillary's supporters leading the "PUMA" movement from 2008? Did they just not listen to her?...How would that be any different than Sanders supporters not listening to him.
nycbos
(6,034 posts)I was an Obama 2008 voter was not a big fan of Clinton in 2008. But she did way more for Obama in 2008 than Sanders in 2016 did for her.
KPN
(15,646 posts)not democratic.
nycbos
(6,034 posts)Hillary is a committed loyal Democrat and thought her delegates should support the DEMOCRATIC nominee. I fully support that.
Sanders is not and he has never been a Democrat so he was ok with rouge delegates who were not committed to helping the party win.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Thank you.
George II
(67,782 posts)Hekate
(90,714 posts)...discuss "moving on."
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)and calling us names and otherwise abusing us, we'll be happy unite. Let us know when that'll be happening. We'll arrange some refreshments, donuts and water sound good?
Hekate
(90,714 posts)Hekate
(90,714 posts)There's always someone around who can't wrap their head around the idea that DU has this thing called "rules," and that if they want to continue posting here they have to abide by them.
Same for being a delegate at the Democratic Convention.
KPN
(15,646 posts)Not to mention there is no rule that says a candidate has to cancel the credentials of delegates who don't toe the line. The way I see things, it was an autocratic behavior. I am entitled to that perspective, no? Or is there a rule against holding personal views around here (no need to respond, there's not).
One last thing, not all rules are sensible or even desirable. Sometimes "rules" need to be broken in order to get that acknowledged.
KPN
(15,646 posts)What's the point? Is this just ego? Let it go Hillary.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I stay out of these threads normally but I'm sick of Sanders supporter's claiming he did as much for our party and for getting his supporters to back Hillary as Hillary did in 2008. It's simply not true. He didn't do jack shit for her.
revmclaren
(2,524 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Sanders before the convention 16
Instead, he said he will attempt to use his delegates to push for more progressive reforms at the upcoming Democratic National Convention, in Philadelphia. Why would I want to [drop out] when I want to fight to make sure that we have the best platform that we possibly can? he asked rhetorically. The goal of our campaign was to transform this nation.
Although Sanders acknowledged on Morning Joe Friday that most of his supporters were heading for the exits, he reiterated that he is not dropping out of the race until his oft-promised political revolution yields real results.
I'm pretty good at arithmetic, and what I know is that Hillary Clinton has more pledged delegates than I do, and she has a lot more super-delegates than I do, he said. But what I also know is we're bringing 1,900 delegates into the convention, that we have received 13 million votes
Clinton less than one week in primary08
"Today as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won, the extraordinary race he has run and and I throw my full support behind him and I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me," she said.
She said she and Obama have faced each other in 22 debates and she has had a "front-row seat to his candidacy" and has seen "his determination, his grace and his grit."
With daughter Chelsea and husband former U.S. president Bill Clinton along with her mother, Dorothy Rodham, watching, the New York senator formally ended her bid for the country's highest political office after a 16-month contest to win over party delegates.
The official announcement came less than a week after the Illinois senator secured enough delegates totalling 2,118 to clinch the Democratic presidential nomination.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)was more gracious in losing the nomination. And his supporters BOOING our candidate during the convention was the last straw for me.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Obama won the presidency when Hillary committed to him.
Hillary lost the presidency when Sanders hemmed and hawed.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)should have done and used his political capital to get the party to respond to his voter base. Was there something that Clinton felt strongly on that differed so significantly from Obama that she thought it worth leveraging? For Sanders, this might have been a once in a lifetime opportunity. The most progressive voices have very few windows where they actually get visibility, and he had created monumental visibility. Had he slunk away all that effort would have been for almost nothing. The party would not have acknowledged those voters, and would have simply expected that they just fall in line for whatever the party agenda was.
Had Sanders done that he would have let all those people and the progressive causes he stood for down because until post convention, the leadership had absolutely signaled that they had no intention of budging. They had won the day, and were ready for things to go back to business as usual.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)after the primary votes are gained he went all the way to the convention with his followers
As you say they did not fall in line to party agenda , and Sanders did not bow out or move away from the nomination
Clinton: I Urged 08 Supporters to Back Obama, Didnt Get That Respect from Sanders [View all]
JCanete
(5,272 posts)the same treatment from Sanders. It was a lack of "respect" that he didn't do the same. That went both ways. I'd be willing to bet the Obama team extended far more respect to Clinton than the Clinton team to Sanders, which on edit, is fine by the way. They viewed Sanders as a thorn in the side and an irritation to be finally done with. They have every right to have thought that way, but Sanders had every right to seize that opportunity to not have his platform fade away and I'm glad he did. Graciousness is not what that moment called for if it was just going to be a concession of left-wing liberal values. That has real world costs and this isn't a pageant.
Justice
(7,188 posts)"Sanders had every right to seize that opportunity to not have his platform fade away and I'm glad he did."
Honestly, what Sanders did was to satisfy his own ego at the expense of everyone opposed to a Trump presidency.
It's not about graciousness - it is about hard, cold facts. Clinton saw the danger that was Trump. Sanders didn't see it.
The margin of defeat was so slim, wonder if Sander every considers what might have happened if he didn't take it to the convention so we could have the media fixate on people like Susan Sarandon.
You are right about one thing - what Sanders did has real world costs. And we are all suffering from them now.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)turning out for Clinton. You've just dawn that conclusion because its convenient to your narrative. His campaign got me on board Clinton's, so count me as one who might have been more cynical about Clinton had she not tacked left after the primary.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Whatever the arguments for or against Bernie's actions in relation to Hillary, and Hillary's actions in relation to Barack, the two situations were vastly different.
Justice
(7,188 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)that it is true because it is true? Where is the verification of that truth? Where is the evidence? People used to come to the conclusion that the sun revolved around the earth because it was "true", although I'd argue that they had at least some evidence that they were basing that on, such as their limited physics knowledge that came to faulty conclusions drawn form experiments involving dropping things from towers...etc. This on the other hand...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)That divisiveness was obviously witnessed by those Russian hacker types who saw their opportunities in the divisiveness. Now look what we have.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)smeared not just our nominee but the entire party. Hillary never did that; no Democrat has done that who was concerned about winning. There is simply no comparison as to how Democrats were disrespected, and Clinton is right to acknowledge that. Can't wait to get this book! It's about time these things are brought up for our party.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Senator campaigns for Clinton in region where Trump has placed an intense focus despite the state having not voted for a Republican president since 1988
Bernie Sanders blasted Donald Trump as a billionaire who exemplifies a corrupt American political system in the Vermont senators first visit to Michigan on the campaign trail for Hillary Clinton on Thursday.
At a local United Auto Workers chapter in Dearborn, the first of four campaign stops across the state, Sanders appearance on behalf of Clinton came several months after he eked out a shocking victory in Michigans primary election. But in his roughly 50-minute speech, Sanders stressed the importance of electing Clinton, declaring Trumps policy agenda is particularly dangerous and un-American.
The Republican nominee, Sanders said, differs from any candidate in modern history for one reason: The reason Trumps campaign is particularly dangerous and un-American is that he has made the cornerstone of his campaign bigotry.
He continued, This campaign, what Trump is trying to do trying to win votes by dividing us up, by insulting the Latino brothers and sisters, by insulting the Muslim community, by every day hurling insults at women.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/06/donald-trump-michigan-bernie-sanders-clinton-campaign
Clinton waa beating Trump by 23 points in August, having a worthy challenger in the primary didn't cause her to lose.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)That's BS. Stop blaming others here. Defend your policy views all you want, but don't guilt trip those who hold views different than your own.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)That without the platform changes he forced through, the margin might have been even greater, as less of his supporters would have voted for her?
mcar
(42,334 posts)She won the nomination. Period. As did Obama in '08.
KPN
(15,646 posts)fuck the progressives.
Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)
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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)
Post removed
WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Yes
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Sanders - 'Why I'm endorsing Hillary Clinton'
Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic nominating process, and I congratulate her for that. She will be the Democratic nominee for president and I intend to do everything I can to make certain she will be the next president of the United States.
I have come here today not to talk about the past but to focus on the future. That future will be shaped more by what happens on November 8 in voting booths across our nation than by any other event in the world. I have come here to make it as clear as possible as to why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton and why she must become our next president.
..
Hillary Clinton understands that we must fix an economy in America that is rigged and that sends almost all new wealth and income to the top one percent. Hillary Clinton understands that if someone in America works 40 hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty.
She believes that we should raise the minimum wage to a living wage. And she wants to create millions of new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. our roads, bridges, water systems and wastewater plants.
But her opponent Donald Trump well, he has a very different view. He believes that states should have the right to lower the minimum wage or even abolish the concept of the minimum wage altogether. If Donald Trump is elected, we will see no increase in the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour a starvation wage.
This election is about which candidate will nominate Supreme Court justices who are prepared to overturn the disastrous Citizens United decision which allows billionaires to buy elections and undermine our democracy; about who will appoint new justices on the Supreme Court who will defend a womans right to choose, the rights of the LGBT community, workers rights, the needs of minorities and immigrants, and the governments ability to protect the environment.
If you dont believe this election is important, take a moment to think about the Supreme Court justices that Donald Trump will nominate, and what that means to civil liberties, equal rights and the future of our country.
This campaign is about moving the United States toward universal health care and reducing the number of people who are uninsured or under-insured. Hillary Clinton wants to see that all Americans have the right to choose a public option in their health care exchange, which will lower the cost of health care.
She also believes that anyone 55 years or older should be able to opt in to Medicare and she wants to see millions more Americans gain access to primary health care, dental care, mental health counseling and low-cost prescription drugs through a major expansion of community health centers throughout this country.
Hillary is committed to seeing thousands of young doctors, nurses, psychologists, dentists and other medical professionals practice in underserved areas as we follow through on President Obamas idea of tripling funding for the National Health Service Corps.
Hillary Clinton also understands that millions of seniors, disabled vets and others are struggling with the outrageously high cost of prescription drugs. She and I are in agreement that Medicare must negotiate drug prices with the pharmaceutical industry and that we must expand the use of generic medicine.
..
She knows that it is absurd that middle-class Americans are paying an effective tax rate higher than hedge fund millionaires, and that there are corporations in this country making billions in profit while they pay no federal income taxes in a given year because of loopholes their lobbyists created.
While Hillary Clinton supports making our tax code fairer, Donald Trump wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the very wealthiest people in this country. His reckless economic policies will not only exacerbate income and wealth inequality, they would increase our national debt by trillions of dollars.
This election is about the thousands of young people I have met who have left college deeply in debt, the many others who cannot afford to go to college and the need for this country to have the best educated workforce in the world if we are to compete effectively in a highly competitive global economy.
Hillary Clinton believes that we must substantially lower student debt, and that we must make public colleges and universities tuition free for the middle class and working families of this country. This is a major initiative that will revolutionize higher education in this country and improve the lives of millions.
Think of what it will mean when every child in this country, regardless of the income of their family, knows that if they study hard and do well in school yes, they will be able to get a college education and leave school without debt.
This election is about climate change, the greatest environmental crisis facing our planet, and the need to leave this world in a way that is healthy and habitable for our kids and future generations. Hillary Clinton is listening to the scientists who tell us that if we do not act boldly in the very near future there will be more drought, more floods, more acidification of the oceans, more rising sea levels.
She understands that we must work with countries around the world in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energy and that when we do that we can create a whole lot of good paying jobs.
..
It is no secret that Hillary Clinton and I disagree on a number of issues. Thats what this campaign has been about. Thats what democracy is about. But I am happy to tell you that at the Democratic Platform Committee which ended Sunday night in Orlando, there was a significant coming together between the two campaigns and we produced, by far, the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party.
Our job now is to see that platform implemented by a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House and a Hillary Clinton president and I am going to be in every corner of this country to make sure that happens.
I have known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. We were a bit younger then. I remember her as a great first lady who broke precedent in terms of the role that a first lady was supposed to play as she helped lead the fight for universal health care. I served with her in the United States Senate and know her as a fierce advocate for the rights of children.
Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president and I am proud to stand with her here today. Thank you all, very much!"
But it seems like some just are stuck on the one sentence, and not the next. (bolded)
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)
Name removed Message auto-removed
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,742 posts)Sorry, I couldn't resist. What I actually meant to say is that screaming isn't allowed in the library, even when it's closed.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS POST IS STILL HERE
greatauntoftriplets
(175,742 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)A simplistic bias often demands we translate accuracy as "sour grapes."
Let it go, fella...
KPN
(15,646 posts)There is absolutely no justifiable reason for her to take aim at and blame Bernie for her disappointment. There is nothing good derived or gained from it. While many here are quick to hammer Bernie for what they perceive as "ego", they ignore what many others see as nothing more than "ego" in this instance. How about you let it go ...
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)People need to be reminded about how on e should be loyal to making sure Dems are elected and not simply sticking around because of ego
KPN
(15,646 posts)I haven't heard anyone here at DU say they voted for someone other than Hillary.
Dems need to be Dems -- then maybe there will be loyalty. Otherwise, its just blind loyalty and the majority of Americans have grown tired of that. That's fundamentally why the Dem Party is in its current position. Do you really expect the millions of young people to vote Dem just because of the label "Dem"? What I hear them saying loudly and clearly is: what have you done for me lately? Do you think people who didn't vote for Hillary are being convinced by her book that they should have? What I'm hearing is "sour grapes" ... and I tend to agree. No productive purpose in that.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)This^
Brilliant. So much derision in here for anyone that puts actual policy over party labels. It seems like some in here are arrogant enough to think the answer is "YES OF COURSE!, and if they want more than that then screw em". I always thought that was the MO of the Republican voter. Of course...in general....Democrat candidates are all on board with more socially liberal issues, and so we would vote for them. But you can't live forever as a party based on..."at least we are not Rs".
Young people are smarter than that, especially liberal thinking ones. They look at the platforms. Why would they even bother to come out to vote for a DINO candidate over a Republican candidate, just because one has a D and the other has an R?
Bernie has been, frankly, shaming the Democratic establishment by acting more like a traditional Democrat than many of them. At least like a Democrat that has new, real, exciting ideas, and pushes them, loudly and publicly. I'm happy to see more and more prominent Ds now backing his efforts. We need to rebuild the grassroot support. But I fear the establishment grip on the party will not go away quietly.
niyad
(113,364 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)It's sour grapes regardless.
niyad
(113,364 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)That's an assumption.
BannonsLiver
(16,397 posts)She beat him. Bernie didn't even make it out of the qualifying round.
KPN
(15,646 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,397 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)But perhaps whatever "it" is, you're not really articulating all that well. Just throwing that out there.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Bernie endorsed her and also campaigned for her. Stop blaming others for your own short comings!
enough
(13,259 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)they wanted the supers to overturn the results, at the convention...in my book, that's not really support. I also recall his supporters at the convention booing and trying to yell down every POC and woman who gave a speech...not real support also. There is a huge difference between what Hillary did for Obama and what bernie did for Hillary.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,415 posts)but as I recall, Super Delegates (whose existence was heavily criticized by Bernie supporters) also reported being personally harassed and pressured about switching to Bernie by Bernie supporters as the basic delegate math began to favor Hillary.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)Not happening!!!!!!
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)He gave a speech the first night of the conventions saying that people should get behind Clinton in no uncertain terms.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/26/transcript-bernie-sanderss-full-speech-at-the-2016-dnc/?utm_term=.bdd0b8cf3e14
all american girl
(1,788 posts)wanted to contest the convention...supers should go for him, even though he lost the popular vote and she had more delegates. If it was a super close primary, maybe, but losing by 4 million votes, that's not close, so no.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)They came to the 2008 convention specifically with the intent of disrupting it. If Bernie has to own the worst sort from his supporters despite fully supporting HRC, then the same must be true in 2008.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)closer in numbers; whereas, Bernie lost early on. Neither Hillary nor Obama smeared the Democratic Party in a cynical way to whip up support. There is no comparison. Hillary's 2008 Convention speech made it clear she was proud to be a Democrat and proud of the party.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If HRC had more supporters, then her disrupters at the convention had a greater impact. The 2008 wasn't about HRC, it was about Obama. While HRC threw her support behind Obama, so did Bernie with HRC at the last convention, so those things most certainly do directly compare.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)the fact that Sanders' was a cynical critic of the Democratic party and that is how the disruption played out at Hillary's convention. We all saw the nastiness on national TV, and here's Sarah Silverman telling the Bernie or Busters, "you're being ridiculous".
Neither Hillary nor Obama were critics of the Democratic party. No one said the 2008 convention was about Hillary. Hillary goes over this in her book, Hard Choices, how she admonished her supporters to get behind Obama, as she did. Her 2008 convention speech was very unifying of DEMOCRATS, it wasn't just a rehash of her campaign stump speech.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)As such it's your duty to figure out what the conversation is about. If you want to take a different tack be my guest, but I'm not going to pretend I'm talking about something I am not.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)It was more about the behavior itself (edit, not just microphone interviews). It's quoted below. But maybe you picked up on some nuance in it that I didn't see.
"Mmmm, as I recall he and his people were going on TV saying
they wanted the supers to overturn the results, at the convention...in my book, that's not really support. I also recall his supporters at the convention booing and trying to yell down every POC and woman who gave a speech...not real support also. There is a huge difference between what Hillary did for Obama and what bernie did for Hillary. "
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Always has been, always will be. The idea that this behavior isn't typical or is somehow unprecedented just isn't that solid. The difference was there were a lot of HRC supporters at the 2008 convention that specifically voiced their support for McCain over Obama which is far more egregious than trying to game the convention parliamentary procedure, IMO. Regardless I don't blame HRC for their bad behavior as it would be just as silly as blaming Bernie for the outliers at the 2016 convention.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)from his supporters that she showed Obama. It was her 2016 convention, sour grapes or not. She put a lot of public shows of support out for Obama, and her speech did not rip on the Democratic party or go over only her talking points.
The behavior we saw was not just at the '16 convention. It was also in caucuses, as well. It was well documented over a couple years, but it culminated in the huge display of disrespect we saw at the convention.
The main difference is that neither Hillary nor Obama cynically attacked the Democratic party. So there is no comparison. Attacking Democrats didn't happen with Obama. Attacking Democrats didn't happen with Hillary. The shade thrown at Democrats was a big part of the enthusiasm that Bernie generated. That is well documented, and that is what we saw at the convention.
It looks like I did read your post correctly, after all. Hence my first response, which is that the comparisons are off because neither Hillary nor Obama dissed our party as we saw at the '16 convention.
This is about Hillary's new book, "What Happened."
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)of the h8te percent.. 2 elections is hard to take, especially when Hillary was the obvious favorite headed into both.. I guess in a sad way I can't blame them for their fury..
treestar
(82,383 posts)He kept going long after he was mathematically out of the race.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Not up to the convention. She was on board within days.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)in fact the supers decided to go with Obama...the year was strange because 2 state were penalized so the didn't get all there delegates...and were states that Hillary won. So yes, there were some who felt the primary was taken from Hillary. But you can't compare 2008 to 2016...bernie lost at super Tuesday and could never make it up. He was never close to to win...no chance at all. He kept going and even thought the supers should vote against the 17 million who voted for her...so no, he did not do all that he could to support her. He went off, wrote a book, looked like he wanted to be anywhere but near her...it was disgusting for me to watch him.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)was infuriating and very harmful. She is right, also, about the lasting damage that cynicism has cost our party.
haveahart
(905 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)than Clinton voters voted for Obama.
But, you know, don't let facts get in the way.
Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #4)
m-lekktor This message was self-deleted by its author.
SpicyBoi
(162 posts)I fear that it will be that much longer to rebuild our party.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)SpicyBoi
(162 posts)Isn't an attack?
Okay.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... but I suppose if someone is only accustomed to hearing nothing but praise for their favorite politician, then even a neutral statement could be perceived as an "attack".
In my view, an actual attack would be calling someone "feeble" or "corrupt" or "ideologically bankrupt" or "no different than a Republican". Now those are fighting-words.
SpicyBoi
(162 posts)Both attacks?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)calling Sanders supporters either of those things. Thanks.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)only those with true political, social, cultural discernment, when it comes to equality in ameriKKKa, would know. I know.
melman
(7,681 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But isn't that a great photo of her?
Response to NurseJackie (Reply #37)
Post removed
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Good try at recovering, but I'm afraid that's also a fail.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Seems a most substantive, irrelevant and petulant point to make... but I'm guessing you'll allege it's both relevant and substantive, as bias often compels us to rationalize what is otherwise, irrational.
So yeah... I get why you made your little point.
Bucky
(54,027 posts)Bernie Sanders endorses Hillary Clinton
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html
TRANSCRIPT: Sanders - 'Why I'm endorsing Hillary Clinton'
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287370-transcript-bernie-sanders-formally-endorses-hillary
Bernie Sanders Packs Schedule With Campaign Stops for Hillary Clinton - (October)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-packs-schedule-with-campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002
Bernie Sanders Goes 'All In' for Hillary Clinton With an Eye Toward Post-Election Goals - (November)
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-eye-post-election-goals/story?id=43300037
heaven05
(18,124 posts)when it comes to the Party that adopted, or was it the other way around, him to try to give his message a voice? SINCE THEN, Not so nice. Period.
Bucky
(54,027 posts)Clinton was specifically referencing the way they each treated their respective nominees. The facts show there was no difference. Sanders and Clinton have somewhat different views of how to govern. He's under no obligation to stifle those differences after the election is over.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)tell that to someone who has been living in a cave, they might believe you about 2016. And you are right, there has been no stifling. I will agree on that point.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)So you admit that Clinton is wrong about what Sanders did in the general election?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)2016 was a disaster precisely because of what has been explained by my choice for POTUS in 2016. HRC. Period. No movement of goalposts, your deduction, because the truth IS known just why HRC lost to that disaster of a potus we have now. Their was a confluence of events and peop[le that destroyed our chance at any semblance of political normalcy.
I hope to see young, fresh faces in 2018-20 so that I can put the past to rest, like so many refuse to do politically.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Kali
(55,014 posts)mostly staying of these threads but if she actually wrote that, it isn't how I remembered him acting.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Sanders' supporters voted for Clinton at a higher rate than Clinton's supporters voter for Obama. That's a fact. And it completely contradicts that Sanders didn't do what she did. Well, he did it better, so he didn't do what she did, but that's not what she's saying.
mythology
(9,527 posts)A higher percentage of Sanders primary supporters voted for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton primary supporters voted for Obama in 2008.
The difference is that Obama won which papers over a lot of things and Clinton lost.
You talk about Sanders supporters not being able to understand an attack while passive aggressively attacking them. I'm sure the choir you're preaching to agrees, but it doesn't actually convince anybody else in my experience.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....she didn't get that same respect from Sanders. That is true. I won't go through it again but look at how she acted shortly after the last primary in 2008 and how she acted during and after the convention in 2008. That was an indication of the respect she had for Obama.
Nothing similar happened in 2016, not even close.
mcar
(42,334 posts)At all.
melman
(7,681 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)I am uncertain if that poll i came across when I googled was before the 2008 election or after! I tried to do some more looking but didn't find anything immediately so I decided to just delete the comment because i wasn't 100 percent certain and didn't want to cause a shitstorm if the poll was before the election which wouldnt be an accurate reading.
But i agree with your comment in response generally speaking. Just look at "comments" sections of places outside of Democratic "safe spaces" like DU. wow.
SpicyBoi
(162 posts)Bernie caught fire and all of his supporters loved him. It was Hillary's job to pitch why her message was aligned with Sanders.
Bernie can't give all of his supporters' energy to her with his words; she failed also.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)the DNC and other Democrats to gain an advantage. Hillary didn't smear Democrats or the Democratic party. There is no comparison.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Than BS or 45
George II
(67,782 posts)And the book is written, it won't be rewritten, so she won't be discussing it much in the future.
Now, what about in the other direction?
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...there are facts and there are opinions. What she said is not a fact. If you have "facts as you see them" it's an opinion.
Autumn
(45,109 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Autumn
(45,109 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)to support her. That is a fact, and she is correct. Even his tepid comments about her were couched in all his rhetoric from his losing primary platform, and he even said she won "the Democratic nominating process", as if he refuses to acknowledge the simple fact that more people voted for her, which is why she won -- THAT process of actually getting more votes he didn't acknowledge.
Hillary's 2008 Democratic Convention speech:
procon
(15,805 posts)He used all their resources, but he ever allow HRC to use his voter database. His lackluster efforts to help her in the GE, or other Dem get elected was like pulling teeth. He couldn't even say her name.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Obama beat a respected (not by me) sitting Senator war hero with a reputation of being strong on international and defense issues. HRC lost to a six times bankrupt buffoon named Donald fucking Trump.
dsc
(52,163 posts)with the other party in power but that has nothing at all to do with it I am sure.
BannonsLiver
(16,397 posts)That he lucked into the presidency?
What a pile.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #157)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Lest we forget
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)and you have no way of knowing whether or not she would've beat McCain.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Sad that you can't see it
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)Trump did!
Should I explain further, or is that enough for now?
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)He was one of the most (correction:most) popular candidates, based on approval rating, in modern history.
2016 was itself record breaking -- but for the opposite reason. Is that enough for now?
And that's not to say repigs didn't engage in their usual voter purges and disenfranchisement.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)The only reason Trump won is because he cheated.
He (and the GOP and the Russians) stole the election from Hillary.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)There are many reasons she lost, having a robust primary opponent isn't one of them, in fact she was way ahead of Trump in the polls coming out of the convention.
By Reuters On Tuesday, August 23, 2016
Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton leads Republican rival Donald Trump by 12 percentage points among likely voters, her strongest showing this month, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Tuesday. The August 18-22 poll showed that 45 percent of voters supported Clinton, while 33 percent backed Trump ahead of the Nov. 8 election.
Clinton, the former U.S. secretary of state, has led Trump, a New York businessman, throughout most of the 2016 campaign. But her latest lead represents a stronger level of support than polls indicated over the past few weeks. Earlier in August, Clinton's lead over Trump ranged from 3 to 9 percentage points in the poll.
http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-poll-donald-trump-492916
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)How about a little respect for others H? What's with the after-the-fact smearing? It strikes me as nothing more than fragile ego.
She's not smearing anyone.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)They did vote for her. At a higher rate than her supporters voted for Obama in 08.
That, to me, sounds like she is smearing Sanders.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)sacto95834
(393 posts)If you don't consider how the voters might interpret your words and turn around and say well it's on you on how you interpret what I said. You deserve to get the results.
I'm tired of this. Other then perhaps helping HRC cope with the results of the election, I don't see how this book helps to move the Democratic Party forward.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Why would anyone object to that?
[WELCOME TO DU!]
KPN
(15,646 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)Want to read it and will when I get my hands on a copy. Have you?
I can only react to what I have seen. And I can only react in accord with my feelings and principles ... or not react. When it comes to bad- mouthing Bernie Sanders for causing her to lose, or for not being "a loyal Democrat", I won't be silent. Bernie is causing the party to return to its roots in my view. That's a good thing and will mean good things for people going forward. As far as I'm concerned, from what I have read, a significant part of Hillary's book is sour grapes. She didn't need to do that. It's as if she's still fighting in the primary. I'm not sure what she wants or hopes to accomplish. Write about Trump, write about Russia-gate and why it's important for our country/ our Democracy to hold people accountable, write about long-term GOP attacks against her person, write about problems around our media and their effect on the democratic process. But writing about blame is sour grapes plain and simple.
George II
(67,782 posts)....by her comments about Sanders that can be construed as positive. And overall it is a positive book. However, she did have to get the negative things out of the way. If you saw any of her appearances this week, she's very positive and forward looking.
And you don't see it in any reviews, but she DID say good things about Sanders. But that doesn't make headlines. The negative stuff makes headlines.
*there were negative things said about Clinton in Sanders' books, too.
KPN
(15,646 posts)Admittedly, I am biased toward Bernie just as you appear to be toward Hillary. The truth is, I would have rather voted for Bernie than Hillary but I didn't have that choice. I've followed Bernie for 20 years. He has been consistent with his message, his style and his behavior over all of those years. I admire that, not to mention I agreed with his views and positions 20 years ago.
For 20+ years, I've felt that the Democratic Party has been straying away from some of its core values especially as related to economic and job policy. I believe we are in the position we find ourselves in now in large part because of that. I believe in the Democratic Party and I am happy that Bernie and others are shaking it up a bit. Long overdue in my view.
johnsonsnap
(56 posts)she still respected the final outcome. That is anything but fragile.
Justice
(7,188 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)That was fucked up. Bunch of shitty assholes.
And booed other democrats. Especially the ones that were black.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... to me that Al Franken and Sarah Silverman had to publicly scold them. I hated that. It was shameful.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)"You're being ridiculous". It was very shameful. And the divisiveness was so obvious that the Russian hackers picked up on it and stole Bernie's attacks for their own use. That's why Clinton is correct to say that it was many factors, but the lack of respect and support she got after the primaries was a catalyst for what was to come.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)OP headline: Clinton didn't get respect from Sanders.
Your defense of that smear: His supporters booed her at the convention.
Of course, even what you said is false if it's read to mean "all of his supporters". It was clearly a minority of his supporters, but even if it was every last one of them, it wasn't Bernie Sanders himself.
As has been pointed out on DU innumerable times:
* Sanders endorsed her (ticking off many of his supporters in the process -- one of the most honest and straightforward politicians in the country was called a "sellout" by some of them);
* Sanders campaigned for her extensively;
* The Sanders voters from the primaries voted for Clinton in higher proportion than the Clinton voters from the 2008 primaries voted for Obama.
It's absurd to hold a politician responsible for what all of his or her supporters do. For example, I believe that Hillary Clinton is not personally an anti-Semite, even though in the heat of the 2016 primaries it was not unheard-of for Clinton supporters to make anti-Semitic remarks about the first Jewish candidate to mount an effective campaign for the Presidency. (Sorry, Senator Lieberman, but your campaign went nowhere.)
I will say, in defense of utterly meritless posts like yours and many others, that the discussion on DU has been very instructive. It's clear that some people -- including, unfortunately, Hillary Clinton herself -- are still very focused on their hostility to Bernie Sanders. The flip side is that the discussions on JPR show that some people -- not including Bernie Sanders himself -- are still very focused on their hostility to Hillary Clinton. This will be a problem for the Democratic Party going forward.
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)* Sanders endorsed her (ticking off many of his supporters in the process -- one of the most honest and straightforward politicians in the country was called a "sellout" by some of them);
* Sanders campaigned for her extensively;
* The Sanders voters from the primaries voted for Clinton in higher proportion than the Clinton voters from the 2008 primaries voted for Obama.
It's absurd to hold a politician responsible for what all of his or her supporters do. For example, I believe that Hillary Clinton is not personally an anti-Semite, even though in the heat of the 2016 primaries it was not unheard-of for Clinton supporters to make anti-Semitic remarks about the first Jewish candidate to mount an effective campaign for the Presidency. (Sorry, Senator Lieberman, but your campaign went nowhere.)
Justice
(7,188 posts)Hillary Clinton is focused on the truth.
Problem for the Democratic Party going forward will be pretending Sanders won't keep doing it.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)television at the Democratic Convention (thanks to NurseJackie for reminding us of this clip about the poor behavior from Sanders' supporters there) to someone hunting down an anonymous post about anti-Semitism on another website is just utterly ridiculous and without merit.
When disdain and cynicism about Democrats was a huge catalyst for his support, it does make you wonder why he would give that up going forward.
Sarah Silverman at the 2016 Democratic Convention edit: she's speaking to Bernie or Bust 'You're being ridiculous"
WoonTars
(694 posts)Did he not urge his supporters to vote for her?
Its been ten months, time to move on. Rehashing the past doesn't do anything positive when we have elections 14 months away...
Get focused, or get out of the way...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)LOL
WoonTars
(694 posts)Move on. There are elections 14 months from now. Time to get in the game, or stay on the sidelines licking your wounds...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)WoonTars
(694 posts)...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)so many ways, not just what happened in November. Hillary Clinton got millions more votes than any of her competitors and that speaks to her immense popularity, especially with her book.
WoonTars
(694 posts)Settling old scores from last year solve nothing...we need to focus on the upcoming elections...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)and this thread really isn't about 2018. It's about Hillary's book. It's always interesting how the same tactics of making things personal come up by the same people. You have no business to order me around and tell me what to think. Support Democrats....that's what *I'm* doing. Electing Democrats is the goal.
Kamala Harris 2020. Adam Schiff 2020. Cory Booker 2020. Al Gore...even...2020. ELECT DEMOCRATS
WoonTars
(694 posts)I did suggest you quit whining about the last election and concentrate on the next one, but sure, you believe whatever floats your boat.
I'll support whomever can win in 2020 and end Trump's reign of error.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)You should quit whining about the election, too. Hillary is still very popular, I'll quote her if I want to. My state voted for her overwhelmingly. I have my own state Senators I support --time for you to accept the facts and move on,
WoonTars
(694 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)And flawless logic. Good to see some clarity.
Heddi
(18,312 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)Notice that none of the ones who were still around in 2016 came back in the Democratic fold when she became the nominee. The vast majority of her real supporters followed her lead in supporting Obama.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Voltaire2
(13,072 posts)How about this: both were media hyped fictions. In both cases the vast majority of Clinton and Sanders supporters went on to vote for the Democratic candidate. In both cases the loser of the primaries endorsed and campaigned for the winner.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)with what we saw last year, and there is no comparison. Sanders' was cynical and demeaning of the Democratic party, and there is no doubt that a portion of that extreme cynicism and disrespect played out by withholding votes from the Democrat. There is no comparison.
Here's the comedian, Sarah Silverman, at the 2016 Democratic convention calling the Bernie or Busters out, "You're being ridiculous". Thanks to NurseJackie for posting this here -- an excellent reminder of the nastiness. Thanks to Clinton for calling it out, as well. It's about time.
WoonTars
(694 posts)That was AT THE FUCKING CONVENTION when people were still hoping to get their candidate in...
At the convention Bernie endorsed her, wholeheartedly, and urged his supporters to do the same.
Why not focus your ire on the 53% of white women that voted for Trump? They just get a pass??
It's over. Deal with it. Focus on next year.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)WASN'T just at the convention. Obviously NOT, and you are just irritated that a bit of reality is out there now that Clinton can finally have her say. Tough, that's life. She has a story to tell, and I agree with her totally. No more trying to force reality on people who saw the abuse of her for themselves.
WoonTars
(694 posts)...it's been ten months
I'm irritated at people that continue to re-litigate the primaries/convention all over again...we have more important things that CAN be impacted, i.e. the elections next year to focus on.
You want to concentrate on the past, fine, don't complain when the train has already left the station.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)your own advice.
Hillary Clinton wrote a book, and lots of people want to hear from her. Sanders is not my Senator and I have no need to protect him. That train has also left the station as that was last year, as well.
WoonTars
(694 posts)Introducing legislation, and which one is on the talk-show circuit?
I've seen enough of yours to know that you are fixated on the past and settling old scores...which is of absolutely no use for the elections in 14 months time...
Good luck to you...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)lie about them, otherwise we can expect more of the same nasty results that cost us in the past. I also saw a comment you made to a long-term DU'er that made me realize how much *you* are fixated on the past.....
You're not my keeper and have no business telling me what to think.
WoonTars
(694 posts)Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)
Gothmog This message was self-deleted by its author.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)I still regret she lost for the sake of the country, but I have no sympathy for her anymore on a personal level. Sanders told his supporters to back her and campaigned on her behalf.
Vinca
(50,279 posts)In retrospect, she should have had Bernie as VP to pick up the outsider vote . . . considering it was an outsider year.
comradebillyboy
(10,155 posts)Bernie and Hillary obviously despise each other and would have been a disastrous team. In any event Bernie doesn't do team work very well.
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)except for your crystal ball.
comradebillyboy
(10,155 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)A unique skill indeed
Vinca
(50,279 posts)for dislike of Hillary, but that's not the case. He's just like that. Kind of cranky. And people love him that way. As I recall he made it pretty clear he wanted his supporters to vote for her.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)impossible in May. He announced after the July convention that he'd be returning to the Senate as an Independent. He didn't campaign for her in August. In September he finally did two events, and another handful in October.
In retrospect there was little she could have done because Comey was about to drop the letter bombs, and voter suppression and Russian meddling would also be key to her loss.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Too many of his supporters had already lost interest in the election.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Beyond that, if Clinton could not earn the support of Sanders' voters then that is on her. She was the candidate. It was her responsibility.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Mathematically, he had lost the chance of winning by early May.
He should have campaigned much harder for Hillary, and he shouldn't have announced his departure from the party as soon as the convention was over -- which many of his supporters viewed as a signal. His book publication could have waited till a few months after the election.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Now duck for incoming ...
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)white_wolf
(6,238 posts)You can LOL all you want. That doesn't make what she said anymore true and we both know it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)LOL!
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)She's either mistaken or lying. Sanders is on record telling his supporters to vote for Clinton. It's not his fault she didn't know that. Attack me all you want, use the alert button. I don't care. I'm not going to twist logic myself into a pretzel over this. Her statements were incorrect. Either she is mistaken or is she is intentionally not telling the truth.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)She deserves to be heard. She deserves to have her say and tell her story without being silenced or shouted down by people calling her a LIAR (yet again).
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)The facts are simple. Sanders urged his supporters to vote for her. There is video evidence of this happening. Clinton says that did not happen. She has every right to tell her story. I have every right to point out that certain aspects of her story do not line up with what actually happened.
Autumn
(45,109 posts)and say she was mistaken.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)To say "Hillary Clinton is a liar" has a definite connotation that it's referring to her overall behavior. I would avoid such a statement, about her or anyone else, unless I had enough evidence to make a comprehensive assessment.
I do, however, feel comfortable in asserting that specific statements are falsehoods. Her statement in the first debate in 2015 that she had said she "hoped" the TPP would set the gold standard was false, as can be seen by examining the transcript of her speech in Adelaide. She did not use the word "hope" and that wouldn't be a fair paraphrase of what she did say. In the more recent ruckus triggered by her book, it's been reported that in What Happened she charges that Bernie Sanders picked up her proposals on infrastructure and youth unemployment and advocated the same things, "only bigger." If she said that, it's a falsehood, because he was advancing those proposals much earlier in the campaign.
Some on DU have charged that people are saying she shouldn't write a book at all -- and there've been insinuations or outright accusations that her critics are motivated by sexism. To be clear, I'm not challenging her right to write a book. But if she chooses to write a book, she has to expect that people who disagree with some things in it will exercise their right to criticize it.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)
I saw Sanders urge his supporters to vote for Clinton. I saw it multiple times. I won't deny the evidence of my own eyes to defend a politician.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:26 AM - Edit history (1)
Your posts are spot on, we all saw Bernie's impassioned pleas to his supporters to vote for Hillary and how he crisscrossed the country stumping for her.
Bucky
(54,027 posts)VIGOROUSLY!!
Sanders: 'Clinton will make an outstanding president'
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-endorses-hillary-clinton-225412
Bernie Sanders endorses Hillary Clinton
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html
TRANSCRIPT: Sanders - 'Why I'm endorsing Hillary Clinton'
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287370-transcript-bernie-sanders-formally-endorses-hillary
Bernie Sanders Packs Schedule With Campaign Stops for Hillary Clinton - (October)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-packs-schedule-with-campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002
Bernie Sanders Goes 'All In' for Hillary Clinton With an Eye Toward Post-Election Goals - (November)
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-eye-post-election-goals/story?id=43300037
Were the few "Bernie Bros" absolute tools for not turning out in November? Sure. But Sanders did all he could to get them to vote for her--the record is unambiguous. It was heartbreaking that she didn't close the deal in a few swing states so that the national popular will was thwarted. But he did all he could do to help our side.
That said, I hope he doesn't run in 2020. We need fresh faces on the ticket. Democrats always win when we nominate younger candidates (FDR was 50; Kennedy, 43; Bill Clinton, 46; Obama, 47).
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bernie-sanders-offers-no-concession-address-supporters-n594091
what Sanders did not say was anything conciliatory about Clinton.
He used the present tense to note that he and Clinton have strong disagreements on some very important issues. He did add that our views are quite close on others.
And while he said he wanted to work with Clinton, he suggested it would be on his terms.
I also look forward to working with Secretary Clinton to transform the Democratic Party so that it becomes a party of working people and young people, and not just wealthy campaign contributors, Sanders said.
He encouraged supporters to run for elected office and set up a page to collect their information.
He also criticized the Democratic Party for not working harder in parts of the country that dont typically vote Democratic, calling loses in state legislatures under President Obama unacceptable.
===============
With support like this, who needs enemies?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)No campaign events for her in June ( though he lost by May), none in July, none in August. Just the two in September and a handful in October.
He was too busy writing the book he had under contract to come out immediately after the election.
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)LexVegas
(6,069 posts)revmclaren
(2,524 posts)Their are number of DUers that seem to be terrified that her references in her book may bring increased scrutiny by the Media and others to public officials mentioned.
+100000 for future exposure!!!!
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Almost all of us voted for Hillary. It's just that we don't think she was flawless and cannot under any circumstances criticized.
Most of the time the media was unfair to her and activiely worked for Trump the way they always favor the Republican. It's also true that Bernie slammed her for her Wall Street speaking fees and Trump used that against her.
However, not going to the Swing States the week before the election was a critical mistake. How is that Bernie Sanders' fault?
Also in 2008, she cited Robert Kennedy's assassination as a reason to stay in the race with the first serious African American candidate. Ruthless and jawdropping. Did Barack Obama complain how mean she was?
Hillary is not a goddess and criticizing her does not make someone a misogynist and anti-democratic party.
Lee Adama
(90 posts)I'll remember every last Hillary hater for the rest of my days.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I know, you probably think there are no Bernie haters for us to remember for the rest of our days. Someone who criticizes Hillary is a Hillary hater. Someone who criticizes Bernie is just bravely speaking the truth.
You might want to consider that some progressives, who are ardently resisting Trump, have a perspective that differs from yours. If we all go around vowing to remember the disagreements of the past, guess who benefits.
Lee Adama
(90 posts)NEVER!
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)There are different groups of people who did not vote for Trump but who, in various quarters, get blamed for putting him in office. Such groups include, just for starters, those who voted for Clinton in the primary and those who voted for Sanders in the primary. Arguing about that seems to me to be unfruitful.
Even as to those who actually voted for him, however, there's disagreement on DU, specifically in the case of those who sincerely repent. I'm willing to forgive them. My forgiveness doesn't determine who gets into Heaven -- I don't even believe in the place, but even if it's real, determining who gets in is clearly above my pay grade. All my forgiveness means is that I'm willing to work with them to undo as much of the damage as we can and move forward. Onward Together, if I may borrow a phrase.
Lee Adama
(90 posts)Nor will I EVER forgive or forget them,
They are my political enemies every bit as much as those who supported Trump from the beginning.
George II
(67,782 posts)...she was talking primarily about the candidate himself who was in the same position she was in eight years earlier.
Just a reminder - in 2008 Hillary Clinton conceded days after the last primary, supported him from the floor throughout the convention, and went out on the campaign trail with Obama just days after the convention ended.
It was entirely different last year.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Sanders urged his supporters to vote for her many times. He made the statements at the DNC. He worked on her behalf on the campaign trail. Her comments are false. If we want to attack those morons who didn't vote for her then that's fine. They were freaking morons for going third party or Trump, but that doesn't mean Sanders didn't urge his supporters to vote for her.
George II
(67,782 posts)...of the convention urging support for Barack Obama. Sanders spent most of the time prior to the floor vote up in the gallery.
Clinton conceded to Obama and endorsed him on June 7, 2008 - the last primary was on June 3, and began campaigning with and for Obama days after the convention.
Sanders conceded to Clinton and endorsed her on July 12, 2016 - the last primary was on June 14, and began campaigning for her after Labor Day.
She was talking about her respect for Barack Obama, and how it was different in 2016. That most certainly was true.
To potential alerters, this is NOT "re-fighting the primaries", it's a response to material contained in her book and comments made here in this thread.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But Sept 16 was a better time to write a book than after November I guess. I can't wrap my head around that. Taking it to convention was disturbing, too many people thought the will of the people should be overturned somehow. Not sure where they got that stupid idea.
haveahart
(905 posts)I think if we end up losing and I hope we do not and if Secretary Clinton wins, it is incumbent upon her to tell millions of people who right now do not believe in establishment politics or establishment economics, who have serious misgivings about a candidate who has received millions of dollars from Wall Street and other special interests.
"She has got to go out to you and to millions of other people and say, yes, I think the United States should join the rest of the industrialized world and take on the private insurance companies and the greed of the drug companies and pass a Medicare for all.
I think that says Secretary Clinton, that for the young people in this country, you should not have to leave college $30,000, $50,000, $70,000 in debt because were going to make as many other countries around the world do, public colleges and universities tuition-free. I think Secretary Clinton is going to have to explain to millions of young people and a lot of other people that climate change is a real crisis and incrementalism is just not going to solve it
she is going to have to come on board and say, yes, I know its hard, but I am going to take on the fossil fuel industry and pass a carbon tax.
So the the point that I am making is, it is incumbent upon Secretary Clinton to reach out not only to my supporters, but to all of the American people, with an agenda that they believe will represent the interests of working families, lower income people, the middle class, those of us who are concerned about the environment and not just big money interests.
Sanders prefaced his remarks by addressing the notion that he could influence his base of supporters to vote for Clinton, saying something similar in spirit to the words reproduced above:
And let me answer it, uh, in this way. Um, first, um, I think it is, you know, we are not a movement where I can snap my fingers and say to you or to anybody else what you should do, because you wont listen to me. You shouldnt. Uh, youll make these decisions yourself."
So, you decide.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)Nothing that came of that was helpful at all. Remember the platform writing committee outrage when a minority was out voted?
MFM008
(19,818 posts)Want to keep this going because they are supporters of maggot or Russia.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Well the headline is a lie at any rate. Sanders endorsed her and urged his supports to vote for her.
BeyondGeography
(39,375 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Prediction: In the first calendar month that begins after the book tour ends, there will be posts on DU bashing Bernie Sanders.
Autumn
(45,109 posts)To have all of the work we have done in elevating our progressive ideals be dashed away by a complete Republican takeover of Washington a takeover headed by a candidate that demonizes Latinos, Muslims, women, African Americans, veterans, and others would be unthinkable.
Today, I endorsed Hillary Clinton to be our next president. I know that some of you will be disappointed with that decision. But I believe that, at this moment, our country, our values, and our common vision for a transformed America, are best served by the defeat of Donald Trump and the election of Hillary Clinton.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Bernie's campaign brought new people into the political process, people who'd previously been nonvoters. Most of them then voted for Clinton in the general. I can't quantify it, but my guess is that they outnumber people who, in a Bernieless world, would have half-heartedly voted for Clinton, but who were alienated by her campaign and who therefore voted Stein or sat it out.
There's one conclusion that's very clear. Bernie is sometimes accused of being divisive like Nader. If Bernie had emulated Nader by running in the general election, as an independent or on the Green Party line, Trump would have carried all the states he actually carried, plus some additional states, and he would probably have won the popular vote in reality.
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)some people want to treat him like a spoiler candidate, when in fact, he was never a candidate for the presidency. Just the nomination.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But Bernie ran against her in the Democratic primary, he lost, conceded, endorsed and then campaigned for her. I think pushing her to the left made her a better candidate.
Isn't that how it's done? And how was he disrespectful?
That claim makes no sense.
treestar
(82,383 posts)She would have won the general. That was the big mistake.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Over and over on DU, I see people expressing this view -- that Bernie should not have been "allowed" to run for the Democratic nomination. Some say specifically that the DNC shouldn't have allowed it.
My question is whether the DNC actually had the power to exclude him. In general, ballot access is determined under state law. For example, there are varied requirements for petition signatures that a candidate must submit to qualify for the primary ballot.
AFAIK, the DNC never voted to "allow" Bernie in -- because it couldn't. Am I missing something?
As to what would have happened, it seems obvious to me that you're completely off base. Before he entered the race, he considered running as an independent in November, instead of working within the Democratic Party. If he had done that, splitting the vote, Trump would have carried even more states.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)And she was 100% behind Obama, immediately. Sanders did not demonstrate the same kind of support for Clinton that she did for Obama. That's a simple fact. It's clear in how long it took for him to endorse her and the content of his speeches at what were supposed to be campaign events for Hillary.
Additionally, the discussions we see on this site prove the two primaries were not comparable. There has never been a situation like this before. And the divisions are at least as great now as they were last summer.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)Respect goes both ways.
Javaman
(62,531 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)By these measures, Hillary Clinton must become the next president of the United States. The choice is not even close.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/dnc-2016-bernie-sanders-pleads-with-his-supporters-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-a7155966.html
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Though it was mathematically impossible for him to win by May, Bernie campaigned for himself all the way to the convention. After the convention he announced that he would be returning to the Senate not as a Democrat, but as an Independent. Then he spent the rest of July, all of August, and most of September writing his book. He only did two campaign events in September.
His support was lukewarm, at best, and his supporters knew it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)She's not saying that he didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL, just that in her estimation, Hillary felt that it was insincere and pale. Logically... AFTER THE CONVENTION would have been an ideal time for Sanders to help to unify and sooth lingering resentments among his supporters. But saying nothing and dropping out of sight for so long, the bitterness had time to fester. It was a missed opportunity that Hillary viewed as another indication of his lack of respect.
Well, that's certainly the feeling that I'm getting from it, and I have to say that Hillary's right on target. Hillary is being totally honest, as usual. I believe her. She deserves to be heard without being trashed or repeatedly called a liar (or whatever clever euphemism passes these days).
jalan48
(13,871 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)How unbelievably petty.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)CozyMystery
(652 posts)Bernie asked his supporters to do so.
Mind you, at the time I thought there was no way Hilary would lose. If I had thought she might lose, I would have voted for her no matter what.
My immediate family consisted of 2 Hilary supporters and 4 Bernie supporters. All 6 of us voted for Hilary.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)He refused, over and over again to drop out of the race that he had absolutely ZERO chance of winning. And set the groundwork for trumps "Crooked Hillary" meme.
Yeah, he "did so much" for her; after he had already caused the damage.
egduj
(805 posts)Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)You know,the guy who lied and pretended to complete "poverty tour" dates in states he never visited back in 2009?
Anyway, Clinton graciously agreed and gave him platform concessions.
And, in return, West announced the day after her nomination, that he was joining the SteinTrumpers.
The response from Bernie to one of his top surrogates, as well as his repeat rally speaker Susan "Trump is less dangerous" Sarandon, actively campaigning to aid Trump and hurt the Dems?
Not a peep.
Bernie's silence and refusal to condemn the Busters was basically an endorsement of their effort.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I also agree with your analysis and observations as well.
retread
(3,762 posts)campaign against Mr. Obama beyond the point she was mathematically eliminated? My recall is that her people
said it would toughen him up for the general. The real reason is still unknown and remains a "head scratcher". Why would a loyal Democrat continue a campaign against the party's nominee doing what could be lasting damage to his chances in the general?
My memory is that Sanders campaigned extensively for Clinton. Her campaign was in control and if the perception was he didn't
do enough, maybe he did everything he was directed to do?
QC
(26,371 posts)It was pretty shocking.
retread
(3,762 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)For example, presumptive Democratic candidate Obama agreed to help HRC fund raise to pay off her considerable debts prior to her agreeing to concede and support him.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/6/2/527659/-
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/25/obama.clinton.debt/index.html
HRC, on the other hand, made disgraced DNC Chair Wasserman-Shulz her honorary campaign chair.
http://www.npr.org/2016/07/24/487242426/bernie-sanders-dnc-emails-outrageous-but-not-a-shock
Nevertheless, Bernie endorsed Clinton and campaigned for her.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)JoeStuckInOH
(544 posts)What election is she remembering? Evidently, not the last one.