My Best Friend is a Trump Supporter

[louis c]

My best friend, who I've known since childhood (I'm 65 years old and he's 70) is also my second cousin.

He's in real estate and has a plumber's license, worked as a pipe fitter at GE for about 20 years, and is semi-retired. Lives a good life and has a very good, comfortable standard of living. Lives in Boston 7 months a year and Hollywood Fla. (rents) for the other 5. We've made homemade wine together for 20 years.

He helped me find the house I live in 17 years ago, which I bought at auction. He asked for nothing in return. The equity now is $250K. I will be forever grateful.

We drink our wine together and watch the Patriots every Sunday, until he goes to Florida. I vacation once a year in South Florida, and we go to dinner at least twice while I'm down there. He was the best man at my wedding 15 years ago.

We cannot spend a day together for the last year, without a screaming argument. Even the things he said were important to him and Trump is working against, he no longer cares about.

He used to hate big money in elections. I tried to explain to him that the Supreme Court appointment which sets Citizen's' United in stone for generations guarantees that for the rest of our lives..

He railed against the Debt and the Deficit. During the Obama years, I tried to explain to him that the deficit was cut in half and he would counter with it still increases the Debt. Now, he doesn't want to hear that his guy in increasing both the debt and the deficit in order to provide tax cuts for the rich.

He talks constantly about "illegal immigrants" and immigrants, as well as African Americans, getting assistance. I counter with the fact that he and many of our friends (All White) work under the table and I point out that hypocrisy. That usually ends in a shouting match.

He believes global warming is a hoax, he doesn't believe in evolution, the Russia investigation is a "witch hunt" and he regurgitates all the Fox News talking points.

I love him as a brother. No one, outside of my wife, is closer to me or has done more for me, or me for him.

We used to see each other once a week, now it's once a month, and we still argue.


I know the obvious solution is to agree to avoid talking politics. We tried that, but it eventually enters our discussions. I work for a labor union and he has a sister-in-law on Mass Health. If I talk about work or he talks about his family, it inevitably devolves from there. If others are with us, they will eventually talk about the issues of the day and then we are off and running. We try to keep our conversation on the sports teams in Boston (lucky for us, we have a lot of winning teams), but that only works for a short time. It was impossible yesterday to not talk about Hurricane Harvey and the impending storm, Irma, bearing down on either us (North East) or Florida, where we have family and friends. Up comes global warming and there goes the afternoon.

I was wondering does anyone at DU have a similar problem and how do you deal with it.

[janterry]

1. Well,

I don't have close family that are trump supporters. But I worked with many conservatives and have had many as neighbors/friends. When religion or politics come up, I just say - well - I'm on the way left of things, of course. But you must be happy with X,Y,Z.

In short, I respect my opinion, but don't discuss it. I also acknowledge their opinion - but just listen to whatever they say. I almost never respond back. Usually I'll say something benign like: Well, I hope what you say works out. (Even if I believe it won't and it's a terrible idea).

I'm looking for what we agree on - that something works out (is good).

If I think there is an opportunity to educate or I'm invited to give an opinion - I might. I have very strong opinions. But I've never found that a debate in those settings helps educate anyone (just makes them more entrenched in their opinion).

[OnDoutside]

60. Good advice.

[AgadorSparticus]

68. I totally agree. I don't engage with Trump supporters anymore.

I am lucky that most of the people in my world lean left. There are a few that don't but they know to not go there. And I respect that silent boundary that we have.

But I agree. Engaging with them does nothing constructive.

[FakeNoose]

2. This is unfortunate, but all too common

Some of us have experienced the same with family members and close friends, people we can't easily avoid.

Luckily my close friends who voted for Trump have stopped talking about it, and clam up when politics comes up. But it hurts when you realize that your best friend doesn't care enough to listen to you. He's been brainwashed by Fox News as so many have been.

There should be interventions for people like this! Just like if your friend were an alcoholic or a drug addict, you'd want to do something to help, right? Or like those people who join cults and they won't get out until somebody kidnaps and deprograms them. It's the same thing, but there's no process to get people out of Fox News brainwashing (yet).

Right-wing deprogrammers are definitely needed in 2017. Let this be a new industry with growth potential.
Good luck to you and your friend!

[tblue37]

35. Cultists can't easily give up their cult without reprogramming and this is Cult45. nt

[lindysalsagal]

91. His identity is fox, if he gives that up, he's no one.

There is no logic, rationality, or anything that will change him. Go find your local Buddhists and learn about attachment. You will see his opinions aren't about you, and you might choose to accept that he's too invested.

[lunasun]

3. Maybe it's you who has evolved also . Did you just start to notice he thinks all blacks are on

welfare or doesn't believe in evolution ?
Hard to imagine all the opinions listed just recently formed because of Trump
Is the issue really that he is a trump supporter ?

[louis c]

4. Believe it or not

He spoke like a normal person until Trump.

He hated politics and politicians, and never voted unless I needed votes for someone the union endorsed (usually liberal).

He was mostly apolitical and never said much about politics before Trump.

In fact, we would laugh and try to avoid another friend who would talk like a bigot in public, and my friend would side with the rational thought.

This all started with Trump. In fact, he says to others "I (meaning him) used to be a lefty. Trump opened my eyes. He's exactly what we need to shake up both parties."

I don't think my friend is a bigot, at least he never talked like one before. But it's impossible to defend Trump without sounding like a bigot. And my friend feels obliged to defend him.

Maybe he held these thoughts before, but felt compelled to keep them to himself to avoid ridicule. But along came Trump and gave license to express reprehensible thoughts which were long repressed.

[lunasun]

6. Maybe the 'no evolution'came from his church . Totally wierd if he picked up beliefs like that just

hanging around other trumpers .
Those would be rw Fundie trumpers and if so good luck getting him to vote on pro union issues
Fundies will let him know unions are for godless communists

[louis c]

12. He may have always believed that, but never said it

I am not a church goer, so religion was never a topic. As I said, he was mostly apolitical. now, there is a President of the United States that says things he only thought, but felt compelled to keep to himself. Now, Trump has given him voice and he knows millions of Americans agree with him, even if it is only 30%. 30% of Americans in over 100 million people. How's that for a scary thought.

[sharedvalues]

10. Does he watch Fox? Listen to Carr?

These sources can and do brainwash people.

[louis c]

23. Fox, all the time

[sharedvalues]

34. You can get him back-- highlight Fox's lies

In my experience it's remarkable what showing off a Fox lie can do. Carlos Maza has some good videos
"Hey man, I want you to watch this".

Or look at results from googling "Fox lie immigrant mmfa". Some good clips there. Best headline from that search "Pope Francis Declares Fox News-Style Journalism ‘A Form Of Terrorism’ (VIDEO)"

[ck4829]

26. Honestly, this speaks to a larger social problem we seem to have here in the US

It's like instead of "I believe in A, B, and C so I am X", it's "I am X so I must believe in A, B, and C"

[Beartracks]

62. Interesting. That explains a lot. n/t

[louis c]

9. Oh, and another thing, I have not evolved

I have been a dye in the wool Liberal for my entire life.

I supported Eugene McCarthy in 1968. I demonstrated against the war and for civil Rights. I knocked on doors for George McGovern in 1972. I've been a union organizer and activist for 35 years.

I am the Chairman of my Democratic Ward Committee and I have attended the Mass. State Convention every 2 years for 24 years.

I have always been consistent in my beliefs. Pro-Gay rights, Affirmative Action, Pro-immigrant (I married an Asian immigrant).

I probably represent what my friend hates, although he never minded using my connections to get a leg up for himsef or his family. Things like getting into the union apprentice program or cutting through some red tape for government assistance. By the way, he's helped me more than the other way around.

But to your point, my Father was an Administrative Assistant to Senator Ed Brooke (R-Mass.), so I was brought up learning politics and tolerance and constituent service. I don't believe I have changed my political beliefs an iota since I was 16 years old (50 years ago). in fact, most of the people I know think I am more Liberal.

[HAB911]

5. I cut off communication with five people

I have known for 30 years or so. One told me Obama was president in 2004 and economic downturn was all his fault. When I told one that Trump was insane, he said "No more than Obama".

I don't have the time. I have their telephone numbers blocked. They are dead to me now.

good luck

[Alpeduez21]

7. Your friend has been a conservative asshole

for decades.

The problem this election has revealed is the United States really hasn't evolved. Progressives believed that progress was being made. Thru Clinton, Bush, and especially Obama there was hope that the country was moving forward on civil rights issues. Then Nov 8 happened.

The revelation that backward thinking religious augmented racists really were in charge of the country again has been too much. I know I have no tolerance or patience for politely listening to 1850's ideology. Of course, those of us who were paying attention saw this coming by looking at Wisconsin, Texas, and other state elections. We watched voter rights being stolen on a racial basis. We saw all the pending court cases against homosexuality and trans genders. There was hope, though, that all this was just a phase and progressivism would prevail. Boy were we wrong.

I will not tolerate fox news talking points. I will not tolerate the WH ideas that everything conservatives disagree with is fake news. If Democrats don't win the midterms this country is over. Get your ass out there and vote.

I know this turn your friendship has taken is hard and really bothers you. I am truly sorry for your loss. However, I don't care about conservatives. I will vote for better wages, healthcare, and public education. I will vote that science and logic are the basis of our governmental policies instead of fairy tale logic. If conservatives get benefits from these positions, so be it. But in my heart of hearts I hope they drop dead.

[lunasun]

32. Glad you have been awake all this time. Racism didn't come with trump and anti gay religions

are not his doing, xenophobes etc.
please continue to have no tolerance for thier talking points
I always work GOTV and being in N. Illinois and seeing the completed change of Wisconsin, Michigan , most of the Midwest over a decade or two makes me work even harder . Although I did what I could to get out voters in 16 , I thought the region was a perfect example of why trump was going to win and wished I was wrong.
Good news was a new IL senator here -Duckworth, so I will continue gotv in 18, but if as you said nationally if there isn't a win midterms , I see even less hope.

[Girard442]

37. "The masks are off"

That was a phrase use by a DU poster a while back. (I'd give credit if I remembered who it was.) It's as if people you knew had these horrible beliefs, like, say, child molestation really just pretty cool, but kept a sock in it because they thought it was universally socially unacceptable. Now Trump has taken the lid off and we see what people really believe in their hearts. Having seen it, there's no way we can unsee it.

After Charlottesville, I don't see how any decent person can stay friends with an enthusiastic Trump supporter. I say this as a person with many family members who probably are.

[sharedvalues]

8. Engage on Fox, not on politics

I've found it useful to talk about Fox and Limbaugh.
Guys like this get radicalized by watching Fox and Limbaugh (and Howie Carr and other rw radio propagandists), and less often by reading Breitbart Daily Caller, etc. If you can get him questioning the propaganda media sources, the politics will change too.

You can give him the medium article from the Fox News host who said everything is scripted. Give him the Ailes white paper. Go through media matters and pull out some highlights. Or just talk to him and tell him that Murdoch controls Fox to push his political agenda -- which is to get people like your friend angry so he votes to cut Murdoch's taxes.

Cult deprogrammers say you have to give people new information when you want to break them away.

Also as a pats fan, you might be able to use Brady as a metaphor - Brady's unfair railroading happened because billionaire NFL owners used ESPN to turn the country on him. Because the owners want more money and Brady was the face of the last labor dispute. Pretty much the same as GOP donors - right-wing media - cutting taxes.

[RhodeIslandOne]

21. Too bad the Brady part is negated by the team's love for Dump

Probably one more reason the guy supports him.

[pangaia]

11. Why do you even spend a second with this person?

Think about it..

And no, I have no problem like that. Impossible.

Good luck.

[mdbl]

13. I feel your pain

There are people in my life that I absolutely love except for their willingness to hand over the direction of our country to a bunch of self-serving fascists. I still don't understand where it comes from. I am starting to accept that they believe big fat pigs on the radio and TV really have their interests at heart. How this happens is beyond me as I have never been that ignorant or impressionable. You try to get them to start thinking for themselves but they just turn to their bullshit mental medication on limbaugh, fux and the rest of them. It still seems that the dittoheads are still hooked on the influence of religion and race enough to be manipulated into voting for a planet full of dirty air, dirty water, and hate for their fellow man - then they go and worship Jesus on Sunday - go figure. They are so used to the sport of liberal bashing they don't know any other way to think. I have finally resolved that I will let them know where they are misguided at every turn that comes up. When you have arguments, that's your problem. Don't argue. just let them now the facts. If you don't know all the facts, don't discuss it until you do. The mental manipulators in the media have trained right-wingers to disrespect anyone that doesn't share their fascist viewpoints through ridicule and arrogance. What's funny is, the manipulators themselves wouldn't be able to handle a fraction of the shit they dump on our society. In reality, they are a bunch of cowards.

[louis c]

22. You are in a similar boat as me

However, facts from me are met with shouting from him.

I am resolved that every time we meet, we agree to not talk politics at the very first, and if it comes up, I will politely leave.

that's the only conclusion I can come to.

[mdbl]

36. I have had to do the same in some circumstances

Hang in there brother.

[Mariana]

63. These people tend to obsess.

My father couldn't keep shut for 1/2 hour while we had Christmas dinner - I had to remind him 3 times to stop it.

He may try to push you to see how far he can go. You'll very probably have to make good on your threat to walk out. Your best best is probably to do it the instant he mentions anything political, no matter how minor. If you do that, he'll probably realize you are serious.

How would you behave if he joined a religious cult whose beliefs and practices are abhorrent to you? That's pretty much what he has done. He didn't reason his way into it, and you can't reason his way out.

[mdbl]

96. "He didn't reason his way into it, and you can't reason his way out."

I like that statement Mariana, it covers a lot of ground. thanks.

[Doodley]

77. In my experience, the arguments are not about the facts, but about

a refusal to listen to to facts.

[Mariana]

97. Exactly.

Any fact that doesn't conform with their worldview will be dismissed as false, one way or another.

[Books_Tea_Alone]

14. I understand

My parents and siblings are T. rump supporters. We were a close family, Sunday dinners, holidays , trips together, etc. My dad and brothers hardcore anti Obama racists that truly got nasty after 2008. My mom voted for the reality tv star. All think Hillary is a criminal. Of course my husband and kids are all strong Democrats who supported HRC.

So our relationships have devolved to the point where I'm only speaking to my parents about non political things barely. They are elderly and not in the best of health so this upsets me. I've cut off all contact with siblings after my brother threw a glass of water in my face at a restaurant at Easter dinner (!!) I have a strict no talking politics rule when we're together but he couldn't stand remaining silent around me any longer. I can't even imagine what would happen now.

I have to make a choice for the upcoming holidays and that will be hard. They all sound like your friend and even with the no politics rule, I still have so much anger that they out us in the horrific position we are in as a country now.

Unfortunately, I would advise to limit your contact even more. I don't think the friendship is salvageable , especially after what's coming this fall. The no politics rule only works with "normal" politicians and voters. I know it's hard- wishing you the best!

[Bluepinky]

55. Your brother sounds a little bit like my brother.

My family is divided by politics as well. I am in my 50s, and my mother (in her 80s) has forbidden any discussion about politics during holiday meals, family gatherings or vacations. The last discussion I had with my brother about politics was during George W's term in office, and he screamed in my face " It's people like you that are destroying the country".
I know he voted for Trump; the only feedback I've gotten is from several weeks ago, he was thrilled about how well the stock market was doing.

Our extended family has been spending one week together every summer for many years, we rent one or two houses by the beach. We went this past summer but I'm thinking about not going again. It's too many people (20 plus), hectic and my brother kind of controls everything. He doesn't really talk to me and is actually not a very nice person. I always end up feeling depressed during the week.

I like to have thoughtful discussions with people about issues of importance, and that is just not possible with my brother (or his wife, who actually voted for Bernie in the primary, then wrote in Bernie's name on the Presidential ballot as a protest vote). She has become more progressive over the years but isn't there yet; and since she's married to my brother, she's exposed to a lot of anti-Clinton rhetoric.

Luckily, my husband and daughter share my progressive values; my son is apolitical at this point.

I don't know about the upcoming holidays, will wait to see what happens. I enjoy seeing my nieces and nephews.

[Not Ruth]

15. Block his number

[Siwsan]

16. Life, my patience and my temper are too short, so I avoid them whenever possible

I have a couple of cousins who are pretty right wing extreme. One is a big time trump* supporter, and he always carries a gun. Everywhere he goes. And he's paranoid. His own sister is afraid to go to his house, unannounced. He no longer comes over to my house.

My late aunt's niece (by marriage) is a big trump* supporter. She thought it was funny to call my mother, who was suffering from the onset of dementia, at the time, and get her all worked up over ridiculous Breitbart 'talking points'. Then I'd have to deal with the aftermath. And, yes, she knew about my political beliefs, which is why she thought it was funny. I'll give her credit that when I confronted her, and demanded she stop doing that, she did. I was shocked.

The day after my aunt died, we were cleaning out her room at the assisted living center. This woman showed up, knowing I would be there and I'd be grieving. She was wearing a big trump* campaign button. She never, ever visited my aunt. This was just a cruel gesture, on her part.

I chose to ignore the vicious immaturity, for my own sake - definitely not hers. My brother escorted her out and I haven't seen or heard from her, since.

I won't even go into my experience with a former co-worker. All I will say is this trump* supporter is the most vile individual I have ever personally encountered, during my chocked-full of experiences lifetime. Her Karma will likely be epic.

[WaitWut]

17. I have a few friends like this...

We make a conscious effort to avoid hot button topics. When we start straying into that territory one of us recognizes that the other one disagrees, and that no amount of screaming at each other will make a difference.

Simply stating, "You know how I feel on that and we aren't going to agree." seems to do well about bringing us back to the point of the story. So that means we talk about kids, grand kids, sports teams, cars, beer, music, whatever.

I know that they're wrong, I also know that I am not going to change their mind. But I also know that we are there for each other no matter what. In the grand scheme that is more important to me.

[Doodley]

79. Very sensible! You are a good example of how to deal with political differences.

[smirkymonkey]

18. I feel for you. It's a tough situation, particularly when it's someone you love who has

been part of your life for a long time.

I did not attend my family's Thanksgiving celebration this year (we usually go down to my brother's house in Baltimore - he's a democrat, but the rest of them are republican - one brother moderate, but my parents and sister and her husband are Fox news devotees). I just couldn't deal with it, I was so angry.

We were all together in upstate New York again this summer and there was no mention of politics at all. I have been to visit my sister in Maine a few times and again, no mention of politics. I am beginning to thing that they are having buyer's remorse and are kind of ashamed of their president. They are all good, educated, intelligent people, but politically, some of them just have such a bias against liberals.

I am just grateful that they keep their mouths shut and I do the same. It has made for a much better relationship. I think we all realize that speaking up, whatever our views are, can only destroy our feelings for each other.

[LuckyCharms]

19. Sometimes I have second thoughts about

dumping them like a hot potato.

But that is what I do.

[rickford66]

20. Yes. My childhood friend we're both 70 now.

Your story is eerily similar to ours. We quit talking politics years ago though. Funny that he worked for the Federal Government for almost all his life while I worked in the private sector.

[Moostache]

24. I'm sorry for your loss, but that relationship has died...we all grieve on different timelines.

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance...widely believed to be the "stages of processing grief / terminal diagnoses"....

Personally, my problem is that I tend to get stuck on 'anger' and combat. I wish you luck with your own journey, loss is always tough, but recognizing it may be tougher still.

[yardwork]

25. I had to block contact from a lifelong friend.

I've talked about it on DU before. It makes me sad. The abusive emails filled with hateful crazy bigotry were too much. Technically, he's not a Trump supporter. He just happens to agree with Trump on most issues and he's really happy that that $&@#% Hillary lost.

He claims to be very progressive. He wrote in Bernie.

[Snake Plissken]

27. You basically lost your friend to a cult

This is what people go through who have friends get sucked into Scientology. Your friend is in the cult a Fox News/Right Wing Talk Radio. Even if Trump were taken away in handcuffs, it would be Obama's fault or the Media'd fault that Trump is a criminal. If you want to remain friends avoid the subject of Trump, it is his religion.

[sharedvalues]

52. Yes. To get him back, need to break out of Fox cult.

[ebbie15644]

28. I live with one, my father

we do not discuss anything political or anything that can lead to something political. If we do, it ends in screaming matches. If he says something questionable anymore, I just abruptly change the subject or I say we are not talking about this. It's damn difficult, he watches FAUX any chance he gets and parrots them.

[Baitball Blogger]

29. Yep.

The worst is a long-time friend to a family member. He posts all kinds of Briebart and Infowar garbage on his facebook page. I unfollowed him, but peek in now and then to see if his views have changed, but, nothing. He only gets worse. No center of logic. This is the way he reasons: If the KKK is bad, then so is the antifa group. He is also now pushing the meme that, if Trump is donating a mil to the hurricane effort, why isn't the Clinton Foundation or Obama doing the same? No point in debating him. He is so tainted by his prejudices. I am thinking that he needs to use this counter-argument method in order to continue calling himself Independent minded.

Now I recognize that some of his Facebook "mistakes" may have been sheer outright examples of racism. For example, I was trying to connect with a local chapter that was involved with Civil Rights and I encouraged the main organizer to post on my wall anything that he thought I should pay attention to. He wasn't familiar with Facebook back then, any better than I was. He would tag the posts, using my name, instead of using the share option, but that was okay with me because, back then, I wasn't really an avid Facebook user.

Well, one time he tagged a post that promoted a popular black singer and in the picture, she wore her hair up in an afro. My racist friend commented, "Nice hair." I deleted the post and realized that no amount of anger from me would make a difference. He is what he is.

It didn't matter in the long run. I realized that the small town network in Central Florida is quick to reach out to anyone who makes noise, and the once promising activist, who I was hoping would lead to some meaningful community volunteering, was soon diverted into something different. That's the world we live in.

[BlueIdaho]

30. Yup, been there - done that.

My closest adult friend and I shared plenty of common interests but in the end our core values drove us apart. I still mourn the loss of that friendship - but I just couldn't listen to any more of his Reich Wing Talking Points. I don't expect him to "see the light"'and I sure as hell ain't going to wrap myself in Donald Trump's "reflected glory" just to hang with the guy.

[Cosmocat]

31. My inlaws are rural conservatives

really good people and have treated me very well.

They know my politics, and we just respect one another by not talking politics at all.

Not as intimate as your friendship is, and we pretty much have to get along given our kids (their grandkids, etc.).

I have lots of people in my life who I respect and love who are full on with the bullshit, again, they know my take on things.

Just have find a way respect and love the person and get past the crazy ass beliefs.

[Fla Dem]

33. Yes, my good friend and her sister who is also my friend. Known for 40 years.

We avoid politics like the plague. We both have short fuses and it doesn't take much to ignite a shouting argument. So we don't talk about it. Otherwise they are good people. Lots of fun, family oriented, caring and would give her right arm for me. But, I know with them, it's ingrained bigotry since childhood. Not overt. Just a lifetime of seeing "the other" as less and a drain on society. Trump appeals to those types. He expresses in word and deed what they've not been able to express their whole lifetimes. They've worked with minorities and even socialized with a few. To them, they are the few good ones, not the ones who are criminals, do drugs and are living off the American gov't. They'll never change.

[lunasun]

71. Yep those kind always like to say " Oh we don't mean you , you're different "

when they slip and say something totally racist off guard
Always wanted to ask " Really ? How ? "
But I don't give a turd and couldn't care less where they slot me based on having to interact with them for pay. (Workplace etc.)

[IAMSPARTICUS]

38. this is war

Just as in the civil war, it's time to choose sides. My best friend from 5th grade is a trump supporter. I should refer to him as my EX best friend. ATt least for me, principles trump friendship. Supporting a racist, anti-semite is a deal breaker for me. He ate the shit put out by hate radio for 30 years and there's no return from that mind set. When civil war comes....and I think it will...Whose side are you on brother?

[Doodley]

82. It isn't war. It is America. America has been this way for a long time.

These people are brainwashed. Dumping them so they only hang out with like-minded people won't help.

[classykaren]

39. Yes I do just no more contact till after trump is impeached.

[kimbutgar]

40. The worst thing about twitlers election was how he has divided long term family and friends

Relationships. I never remember people being so divided during the bush or Obama years. Something about the hate and bigotry of twitler has twisted people's minds to like the bully and want to punch out those who are not like " them".

[randr]

41. Your friend has been Fauxed

Can happen to the best of people.

[uponit7771]

42. xxx THIS HAS WORKED FOR ME xxx

Make sure to agree on a set of sources you BOTH can trust.

Set your positions inside of those sources and argue from there, 95% of the time you'll be right unless he backs out of the BOTH trusted sources agreement.

If so, leave it alone ...

[Girard442]

46. Liberals and Trumpinistas both trust...who? The Weather Channel?

[uponit7771]

48. Rolling Stone, Newsweek, Fortune and some other right wing sources that are scorching Trump

... wanting to seperate the right from his hate.

Its worth a try

[samplegirl]

43. Sadly I've lost some lifetime friends

Over the same things because I just can't seem to tolerate it as easy as some. I have few Trump supporting friends but don't see them often. However they seem to come out from the rock they live under on social media when they have a good story on someone. Other than that they post God Bless the troops.

[azureblue]

44. send him this

Ask him if he likes the video. And ask him if this is the kind of person he approves of to lead the US.

[WhiteTara]

45. My sister and I used to be close in political ideology

and this last election really split us. She voted for Jill Stein, because "she didn't want any more wars." I told her she was insane. It's gone from there.

However, we know when to stop talking because we have had a couple of deep splits over the past 9 months. She thinks I'm a corporate sheeple and I can't help remembering when Y2K was a big deal and she was sure the entire system would collapse. So, I just realize she is even kookier than I and let it go. We have other things in common so that helps. My other sister with whom I have a relationship is even a bit more centrist but both she and I wanted Hillary as President.

Politics in the family is precarious at best. Good luck.

[Doodley]

83. What is all this hatred of Jill Stein voters?

[WhiteTara]

88. I certainly don't hate Jill or her supporters

But I do think it's crazy that someone would vote for her knowing she didn't have a chance in hell and the reason is that this would avoid all war in our lifetime. Frankly, I'm shocked Trump hasn't gotten us into a new war yet. He's definitely filling out the ranks in all our current wars however.

[SCantiGOP]

47. You just can't talk to those people

I would be embarrassed too if I had staked out a position and now it looked so horrible.
The last argument we had was about student aid to college. I thought this was something we could agree on, but he had to contend that foreign students are cleared of all debt when the graduate, unlike the poor oppressed American students.
When the argument go going, he at one point yelled that "they will just go back to their country and then they never have to pay it." He stopped for a minute, realized that this was absurd and would destroy his 'we need to round them up and ship them out' argument so he made an excuse and left.
This is a guy that voted for and supported every Dem candidate since Carter. He wanted Trump to tear up NAFTA and shake up the government in Washington.

[Doodley]

84. I think this guy can be turned back.

I think it is a good idea to form statements or questions that he will obviously agree with.

[SCantiGOP]

90. So you wouldn't suggest I say

"You do know you are a complete asshole don't you."

He isn't, and that is the problem. He claimed he was voting 'strategically' so Trump could break DC apart so it could be reformed. He has to see the absolute disaster that Trump is, and that his vote was a huge mistake. I keep giving him an out - to admit his was a protest vote and he knew that it wasn't going to determine the outcome, but he is too invested in Trump to admit that.

I have very, very little tolerance for these people.

[Doodley]

95. Try these kind of phrases that force him to agree with you:

No matter what political party or president is in power don't you think the flooding in Texas shows how FEMA played an important role? Or you could say the Coastguard or the National Flood Insurance Program. If he says yes (a straight no would be unlikely) then point out how Trump contradicts that view by proposing to defund these programs by billions of dollars.

Or

No matter what political party or president we support, and this has not got anything to do with climate change, don't you think we can at least agree that it is important to do something to protect the the environment, so our children can have clean rivers and clean air? When he says yes, follow up his answer with a brief summary of Trump's anti-environmental measures that go against his view.

[Texin]

49. They've been indoctrinated thoroughly by Murdoch's Faux News

I don't - nor have I ever - watched anything on that channel and I couldn't even tell you when it first started airing. I've seen what this saturation in constant lies does to folks with too much time on their hands and/or too little critical thinking, intellectual curiosity and, for many, a wistful nostalgia about "the good old days" (i.e., the Reagan era, specifically). The older white male twitler voters identify with him. Back during the '70s we saw the Archie Bunker persona ridiculed and criticized on television and it led to a majority of people repressing their inner bigot and suppressing their silent fury at being "intellectually lazy". Meanwhile, the world began to pass them by as the aged. They found themselves surrounded by a younger and more diverse population. twitler gave them permission to act out all their repressed rage. As for the younger twitler cultists, I guess one has to chalk it up to being the children of similar believers, though some I'm sure came to beliefs all by themselves. It's a cult of personality for sure. They will remain implacable in their support regardless of what he does or says or what eventually comes out about him. They will take their worship of him to his or their graves.

[Equinox Moon]

50. "The Brainwashing of My Dad" documentary trailer

Here is an interview with the maker of the documentary

[pamela]

51. Tell him you don't want to be friends anymore.

There's a Twitter meme going around that says something like "If you're wondering what you would have done during the Holocaust or the Civil Rights movement you have your answer. You're doing it now." You're basically asking us how to stay friends with a Nazi? A Klan member? The short answer is "you don't."

This is not hyperbole. Trump is following the playbook of Facism and white supremacy to the letter. It could not be any clearer. Your friend is ok with this. Your friend supports this.

"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."

[lunasun]

72. + 1 this is a good idea . Look at the history of Germany and how the Nazi movement grew with in

a ten year or so period and was accepted
The Holocaust was a series of events that happened over a long period of time. Jews were dehumanized, deprived of many legal rights, became the victims of both random and organized violence, and were socially if not physically isolated from the rest of the population.
Many people became “bystanders” to this ever-radicalizing program long before the mass roundups and killings began and were numb and didn't care when it when it came to mass death

Plato: "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."

[Doodley]

85. A major difference is Hitler's following grew, but Trump's is shrinking.

Let's remember, we are winning. Trump's authority is getting weaker. Good will triumph.

[Atticus]

74. Best response in the thread. Thank you. nt

[bettyellen]

53. Well he's also a big racist and that would have been a deal breaker for me.

It would have ended these discussions long ago, as well as my respect for him. I'm not surprised he latched o. To Trump, not sure why you are.

[Stonepounder]

54. It seems like neither of you is going to change the other. So...

It seems obvious, don't talk politics. I know it is hard, but just don't. And, to help you both break the habit, get a 'Politics' jar. Like a swear word jar. Whoever mentions politics has to put some amount of money in the jar. Either a flat amount, or a sliding scale, depending on how egregious the comment is. Then make a game of it.

Avoiding politics is the only way you two will be able to maintain your friendship.

Believe me, I know where you are coming from. I have 5 kids - 1 is a libertarian, 1 is a Trump supporter, and 3 are liberals. (One of my sons almost got into a bar fight the other night with someone who was spouting off about how great Trump was. Matt kept giving rational counter arguments about how messed up we were with Trump. I was proud of him. )

[lucca18]

56. Yes, I have the same problem.

My best friend and I met when we were both eighteen, just out of high school, and wondering what we were going to do with the rest of our lives.

We opposed the Vietnam war, engaged in politics, cared about equality for all; and lived briefly in an old barn on Cape Cod with a bunch of friends.

All throughout our lives we remained close. She was the sister I never had.
Even when she moved to Texas and I moved to San Francisco, we still had that bond.

Then over the years things started to change as we found ourselves arguing about politics, religion, global warming, evolution and other issues.

I started receiving racist emails.
I told her to stop.
She did not.
We are no longer friends.

[Corgigal]

57. Maybe science

Maybe not. I read several years ago that as we get older our brains shrink and apathy can set in. So, with that in mind I try to fight it. I listen to current music, I dance daily to keep those CNS circuits busy. I think if we're not careful we can become afraid. We can fill our brain with scary stories and I think some news channels use it.

I think your friends brain has become fearful, and it's trying to fill it with stories. Our brains are wired to do that. You have to be aware that it can happen to fight it.

I'm sorry with what you're going through. My best friend of 21 years and I have survived. I almost thought she was going to the dark side but we talked it out. As I am close to 60 now, I'm aware that this fear can set in, I'm just not going to let it find a place easily.

Gonna go see Bruno Mars in two weeks. Might be the oldest person there, so? Not scared of all the different ages and colors of humans. Going to have a fun night. Freak out the kids in my Bruno shirt. Ha.

[Doodley]

86. Good for you, and for your friend. Bruno Mars will be a blast!

[iamateacher]

58. Don't talk politics, love the swear jar idea

I agree. In my opinion
Talking about politics with him just makes him dig in deeper. He is feeling guilty because he knows how people should act.
He is having buyers remorse, as are many Trump voters who have some sanity. That's why he flies off the handle.
I noticed this with Bush voters , it took a while, but many turned on him eventually.

[MFM008]

59. My sisters boyfriend

Just like that.
I insist no political talk.

[Dan]

61. Listen, say nothing....and

wait, time cures most things... and in this case, the Trump disease will be cured with the Muller cure.

Your friendship can survive with patience .... this friend means a lot to you, so I would say, bite your tongue, life is too short to lose this person in your life. Bite your tongue, allow what he says to come in one ear and exit the other... and most importantly, be there for him when he wakes up...cause Trump will do something to make him aware....

[catbyte]

64. I'm 62 & lost a good friend I'd had since I was 13.

We sort of lost touch over the years as life got in the way, but reconnected on Facebook & by phone. I was horrified when I opened up my Facebook in June of 2016 to find a despicable anti-Obama, pro-Twitler screed that he'd posted. It wasn't one of those lame memes or "shares", they were his words. I private messaged him, told him goodbye, then promptly blocked him on Facebook, Twitter, deleted his contact information & blocked his phone number. Cult45*ers are so foreign to me that they might as well be from a different planet. I don't want to "understand" them, and I sure as hell don't want to know them.

It sounds like you still feel like you owe him something, but I'll bet you were just as much support to him over the years as you were to him. Sometimes you just need to end it, grieve, and move on. I guess it boils down to whether you get more out of keeping the relationship than you would if you ended it.

[ProfessorGAC]

65. No Offense Intended

But, no matter how long that person has been a friend, he's not now!
I'm 61 too, I don't have the time left to be friends with idiots
Dump him
There's no loss

[Kleveland]

78. I am with you... all the way. nt

[superpatriotman]

66. righties always moving the goal posts

keeps us on our toes!

[nini]

67. I cut them out of my life

because supporting Trump is not like supporting just a conservative. One has to normalize racism, sexism, etc etc.. and quite simply they are not good people.

What they believe and support is a direct threat to myself, my family and this planet. Quite simply they are the enemy when it comes down to it. It's sad but true.

[janx]

69. I lost a brother.

He was a registered Republican. I did not realize this for decades. I knew he was a "conservative" and that he had some crazy views, but I had no idea he was a registered Republican or that he watched Faux News daily. I learned of it a year or two ago. I'm almost 60; he is 65.

But I did know that he was on the political conspiracy crazy train. As I've learned is often the case, he regularly traded right-wing email chains with his guy friends from high school and elsewhere. (This seems to have been a trend with right-wing guys--I will elaborate later.*) He started forwarding these group emails to me some years ago. I asked him to refrain, but he did it anyway. I sent him to Snopes on many occasions, then the emails would stop for a couple of months, and I'd send him to Snopes again. They finally stopped for good. He knew and knows that I had no interest in discussing politics with him, but god, at times he would INSIST on unleashing the typical talking points on me. His wife was a Dem and I suspect she still is. My other brother is quite liberal, though not registered with either party. So why did he choose to unleash on me? I will never understand this.

Not long before this last presidential election, he told me over the phone that he was thinking of leaving the Republican party. I suspect it was because of Trump. He said he was going to vote third party. So although I figured he was probably still susceptible to conspiracy theories, I thought he had at least not bitten on the Trump bullshit.

I was wrong. We got into a txting conversation that got quite rude, very fast. He unloaded the right-wing talking points and made typical assumptions about what I knew and believed. I stated that I could not fathom having Melania Trump as First Lady of the United States. Then things got personal. He came at me with personal attacks about my life and behavior. OK. It was lame and completely inappropriate, but I didn't text back.

He started up then with email, continuing the attacks. And when that didn't work, he left me a voice mail message insulting my elder daughter. That was it. I mean that was really it.

I called my other brother in tears, and I emailed the one I describe and disowned him. I regret it somewhat now, but I'm still burning mad and confused: What kind of vile society can produce this kind of irrational, horrible behavior?

*I will elaborate on the forwarded emails in another post. This one is long enough.

[USALiberal]

70. No way my "best friend" could support Trump, because I would find a new one. Easy! n/t

[janx]

73. I think there's been some kind of embarrassment on the part of hard righties, especially

Trump supporters.

The forwarded emails I mentioned in my last post really hit that point home to me. My brother would forward these emails with right-wing talking points, conspiracy theories, guns, etc. to me and to my other brother. Neither of us was remotely interested in them. I noticed, however, that they came from a group of guys my brother had known for some time, from various places, and the forwards seemed to be fairly routine. Nary a female on the list.

A little over a year ago, I reconnected with a guy via Facebook and email whom I hadn't seen in 40 years. Great memories of smoking weed out of an orange by a river at a church retreat, Jack Kerouac, music, etc..He was living and working in Asia. It was fun to chat again. I was curious about the wildlife in Asia, especially the birds, and I discovered that there are enormous fruit bats in the Philippines, "flying foxes," that I thought he ought to know about. I'm a fan of overkill humor, so I kept sending him videos and pictures of these bats. Funny as hell. But he started sending political emails. I sent bats; he sent Hillary and Bernie debating with disparaging comments. He sent other emails, too, but the political group emails increased.

He said he was a Libertarian, capital L.

Then I got an email from him saying that our political views were at opposite ends of the spectrum, and that we should probably not communicate anymore. ?

And shortly after that, he started forwarding me emails with--you guessed it--right-wing talking points, conspiracy theories, guns, etc. Just like the ones from my oldest brother. The list on the emails contained all male names. I recognized a couple of them from high school, but I never really knew those guys. His best buddy from high school, who accompanied us on our river hijinks, was not on the list. It took me awhile to figure this out, but some of those group emails originated with his very elderly father.

It was around that time that I remembered the joke, sometimes posted here, that a libertarian is a republican who smokes pot. I don't know if he does at this point, but I had to laugh--because well, he did.

I also remembered something my right-wing brother told me once: that liberals think conservatives are stupid. That made me wonder if these circles of guys forwarding these things to each other aren't doing it with some kind of clandestine purpose in mind, consciously or unconsciously.

Has anyone else seen this type of behavior? Are these emails some kind of political guy bonding or something?

Recently, I have toyed with the idea of resuming the bat videos and pics--just to catch my old friend off guard.

[Atticus]

75. "Best friend" and "Trump supporter" don't belong in the same sentence. nt

[Warpy]

76. Not specifically. I don't drink, and that helps a lot

I do go Emily Post a lot of the time, refusing to discuss sex, religion, or politics. I find that's really the best policy. Just tell him you're not going to have another visit ruined by that man and stick to your guns, talk sports since you both enjoy them, or food, or family, or weather. Just not the Big Three. Those are off the table. If he gets a snootful and starts, leave. He'll get the point.

This is how you refuse to let go of someone you know from many years' experience to be capable of being a good man and a good friend when he starts to believe a lot of horseshit.

I kept a convert to the JWs as a friend for many years until he died. Going Emily Post was how we did it.

[SHRED]

80. It's unfortunate your friend is such a racist.

[Goonch]

81. WHO'S YOUR DADDY

[Doodley]

87. Dumping Trumpers and forcing them to be only with like-minded people does not help.

[Blue_true]

89. I know people that are good human beings.

Sounds like the guy is a true friend to you. Sit down with him and agree that if anyone start talking politics, call a timeout immediately and change the subject. Don't argue. Trump will be history at some point, don't destroy a good relationship for you.

[mitch96]

92. I'm in the same boat as you..

I have two very conservative friends. One I've known for 63 years (we met when we were 5!!) and the other for 51 years. They both know where I stand and we mostly don't talk politics. Sometimes they try to sneak in a political statement here or there, but less so now since tRump is in office. They might be Republicans but they know an asshole when they see one.
My other two long time friends are liberal and we hardly talk politics
I try to avoid any discussions that entail politics, religion or sports... Bound to get into an argument with those three...
m

[Willie Pep]

93. Most of my family members are very conservative.

I have one aunt who is a Democrat and she and I just sit and give each other mortified looks during family gatherings. It is pointless to try to change the minds of most people in my family and nobody wants to ruin Thanksgiving or Christmas with a political shouting match so we just let it slide.

My best friend is also a big time Republican. I don't often talk politics with him these days because I learned that he takes everything personally and he holds grudges forever so I decided that for the sake of the friendship I would try to avoid political discussions with him. Thankfully he doesn't talk politics that much so it is not a big issue.

The only people I really try to discuss politics with are those who I think are going to debate in good faith. Just as an example, I have a friend who refused to vote for Clinton and just sat out the election and I was able to have a good discussion with him about why I thought he made a mistake. I couldn't get him to agree with me but at least it was a civil discussion.

If you can stay friends even with shouting matches then I think it would be OK to keep talking politics. Some people can scream at their friend over politics but then be like brothers or sisters the next day. My best friend is not like that. I love the guy but he has a mean streak and a tendency to be petty and hold grudges. He still holds grudges from grade school and high school and he never forgives a slight. Everyone has to walk on eggshells around him.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

94. Suggestion: Give it a year or so...

with little or no meet-ups before an ice-cold breakup. During that time, see what happens to you deep inside.

You may not have the same type personality as me, but I have a hard time letting go of my attachments, being the deeply emotional type. When I recognize something or someone I cherish is causing me pain, I have to pull away from it far enough that I can be rational with my emotions. After a while, I begin to feel some clarity on how I should proceed, but in some cases that may take months.

If you don't practice it already, try learning simple meditation. It has been my most powerful tool for gaining more of those "ah-hah" moments for trials that outright baffle me.

Even if the relationship with your good friend is not salvageable due to his intransigence, you could do long-term psychological damage to yourself by acting brash and breaking off the friendship too abruptly (therefore, no emotional closure). Slowly accept the problem, then if you start to feel some closure setting in after a while and it feels right, then start breaking the chains of attachment.

What I'm suggesting here is based entirely on my mentality, personality and life experiences alone, and might not work for you. I hope you can pick up enough hints and suggestions on this thread to develop your own solution.

This disease of division is doing great harm to our country and we need to do everything in our power to stop it.