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L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 09:45 PM Sep 2017

NY Times: In Election Interference, Its What Reporters Didn't Find That Matters

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/insider/in-election-interference-its-what-reporters-didnt-find-that-matters.html

The story started, as many do, with our own confusion.

The most unusual of presidential elections — one marred by Russian trolls, a digital Watergate-style break-in and the winning candidate’s dire warnings of a “rigged election” — was followed by the most unusual period of acceptance. In the immediate aftermath of the 2016 election, government officials, the Clinton campaign, intelligence analysts, and civic and legal groups all appeared to calmly accept claims that votes had not been hacked.

I had been on the cyber beat for six years and had grown accustomed to deep, often lengthy digital forensics analyses of cyberattacks against a wide range of targets: Silicon Valley start-ups, multinational conglomerates, government agencies and our own Times breach by Chinese government hackers. In the vast majority of cases, it takes investigators months or years to discover that hackers had indeed been lurking undetected on victims’ machines.

Yet American intelligence officials were adamant in a report in January — just two months after Election Day — that vote tallies had not been hacked. This despite the broad consensus among United States intelligence agencies that Russia interfered in the 2016 election through an extensive disinformation and propaganda campaign, as well as the hacking of electoral databases and websites, the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

My colleagues Michael Wines, Matthew Rosenberg and I set out to find out how government officials had nixed the possibility of vote hacking so readily. It was especially unclear to us given that officials at the Department of Homeland Security testified last fall that Russian hackers probed election systems in 21 states, with varying degrees of success, and that months later, a National Security Agency report found that Russian hackers had indeed successfully infiltrated VR Systems, an election service provider in eight states, including the battlegrounds North Carolina, Florida and Virginia.

As we dug more into our investigation, the more unresolved incidents we found. ..................



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NY Times: In Election Interference, Its What Reporters Didn't Find That Matters (Original Post) L. Coyote Sep 2017 OP
Get thee to he greatest page malaise Sep 2017 #1
It's always nice to be paid big bucks for being "nice." JoeOtterbein Sep 2017 #5
You know, come to think of it on DU there were TONS of people insisting UP & DOWN that there was NO uponit7771 Sep 2017 #2
I remember those times ProudLib72 Sep 2017 #6
I hate to say it, but no one in either Party has been interested in voting security. Dustlawyer Sep 2017 #19
It began on election day when TONS of people were ready to accept the results and ASSUMED thal all politicaljunkie41910 Sep 2017 #9
Remember how alarmed people were with a 1.5% red shift in 2004? 4.7% in 2016 and crickets. Why?? L. Coyote Sep 2017 #15
K&R. Off to the greatest page. n/t rzemanfl Sep 2017 #3
We need to repeat, over and over: "ALL elections must be with paper ballots and MUST be audited" JoeOtterbein Sep 2017 #4
And give him/her a mental health test. BigmanPigman Sep 2017 #7
In total agreement. n/t susanna Sep 2017 #14
until we use all paper ballots counted at the precinct in full public view questionseverything Sep 2017 #26
Absolutely- need paper ballots again. We have plenty who will volunteer to count to ensure accuracy iluvtennis Sep 2017 #27
K&R nt ProudProgressiveNow Sep 2017 #8
k&R!!!!!! burrowowl Sep 2017 #10
New York State.... SergeStorms Sep 2017 #11
I hate to say this, but those machines aren't always perfectly good. politicat Sep 2017 #13
All I can go by........ SergeStorms Sep 2017 #17
Maybe those lever machines couldn't be hacked but they could be screwed up csziggy Sep 2017 #16
The state of Florida..... SergeStorms Sep 2017 #18
At the time of the messed up election, those machines were decades old csziggy Sep 2017 #22
Ireland used a few voting machines dottie66 Sep 2017 #24
If you live in a county with an R Clerk, that race should be your priority. politicat Sep 2017 #12
K and R BadgerMom Sep 2017 #20
K + R Raastan Sep 2017 #21
kick for visibility L. Coyote Sep 2017 #23
Interesting. Bookmarked. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2017 #25

uponit7771

(90,346 posts)
2. You know, come to think of it on DU there were TONS of people insisting UP & DOWN that there was NO
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 09:49 PM
Sep 2017

... hacking of the voter machines that was done and I felt even then that this was a red herring

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
6. I remember those times
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 10:06 PM
Sep 2017

It was generally accepted that there was no hacking but a lot of propaganda. The strange thing was that, every once in a while, a snippet would pop up about how the machines could easily be hacked. It was like there was always a niggling doubt about the off the cuff assessment of our election machines. I'm extremely glad that there were more than a few people who were not satisfied with the results of this first "investigation".

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
19. I hate to say it, but no one in either Party has been interested in voting security.
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 08:43 AM
Sep 2017

I believe it is because they all hack or know someone who does.

William Spoonamore, a Republican who works at the highest levels of credit card security has several videos on the subject. When the two fundamentalist Republican brothers who started Diebald came to him and two other experts in the early 80's to see if they could hack it he saw a big problem. They hacked it in 30 minutes.

He says it would cost about $2 million to successfully hack the Presidential election. He says our election security is virtually non-existent. Using what he calls a "King Computer," a computer that poses as both the tabulating hub precinct computers report to, then as the precinct computers reporting to the main tabulating computer, anyone can alter the election results. You do not need to hack individual voting machines!

This is what happened to Kerry in Ohio. Bush/Rove's IT guy died in a mysterious small plane crash two days before he was to give his deposition in the case. He was a part owner in the TN company who hack that election.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
9. It began on election day when TONS of people were ready to accept the results and ASSUMED thal all
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 10:49 PM
Sep 2017

those exit pollings that had previously been reduced to almost scientific reliability and whose results we count on around the world to determine the fairness of election results in third world countries were suddenly ALL WRONG and it was all HILLARY's FAULT. Furthermore they chided the rest of us when those of us wanted a recount of the results in certain areas and were willing to put our money out to pay for it and once again we were shouted down by a small group that thought that they were so smart and the rest of us were so stupid, as if we just got off the turnip truck the day before.

And just like in 2000 instead of proving us wrong and them right, the Rethugs got the courts involved and shut us down, and they did so with so many so-called Democrats here on this board's permission. Or maybe, just maybe those weren't Democrats. Maybe they were Russian Bots. Well whatever, people here folded quicker than a cheap suit and then wanted to silence everyone else. And predictably as we seem to do, the finger pointing turned inward and we started blaming one another. Some things are worth fighting for, a lesson we as Democrats, apparently always seem to learn too late.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
15. Remember how alarmed people were with a 1.5% red shift in 2004? 4.7% in 2016 and crickets. Why??
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 11:51 PM
Sep 2017

Of course, in 2004 the contested Senate races had 1% more red shift than the 50 state average.

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
4. We need to repeat, over and over: "ALL elections must be with paper ballots and MUST be audited"
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 09:55 PM
Sep 2017

And audit the President's tax returns. Every year.

questionseverything

(9,655 posts)
26. until we use all paper ballots counted at the precinct in full public view
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 03:28 PM
Sep 2017

we will never be able to trust the results

auditing is not enough

because once the results are announced there seems to be no way to change it

mich had 150 precincts with more votes than voters...this of course is physically impossible and yet by mich law the original report must stand

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
11. New York State....
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 11:03 PM
Sep 2017

used to have the old "lever and button" type of voting machines, where you'd pull a lever - a curtain would surround you for privacy - and then you'd flip a button down on each individual election for whomever you were voting for, when you were finished you pulled the lever again, the curtain would open, the buttons all reset to their original positions, the votes were tallied in the rear of the machine by mechanical tumblers, and the next person was ready to vote. It was easy, it was deadly accurate, and it was impossible to hack.

But then........"PROGRESS"! They had to junk all of those perfectly good mechanical machines, that worked perfectly well, and buy the new and improved electronic voting machines that are simple to hack, and pretty much worthless in the democratic process.

Pure bullshit. Everything that changes does not necessarily progress! Sometimes you should just leave things alone, especially when they're working. Since that time Republicans have won nearly every close election in the United States. Gee, I wonder why?

politicat

(9,808 posts)
13. I hate to say this, but those machines aren't always perfectly good.
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 11:31 PM
Sep 2017

There was a lot of work going on to keep those machines working, where you, the voter, didn't see it.

I rebuild 100 year old sewing machines and 30-60 year old knitting machines in my increasingly rare spare time. There are always mechanical parts that were custom. Sometimes, substitutes can be found, or cast, but sometimes the only solution is to cannibalize a more broken machine, especially if the original maker is out of business or if the machine dies have worn past a functional cast. There comes a point when there just aren't enough spare parts and technical expertise to keep machines going, especially as populations grow. Shoup Mechanical made NYS' voting machines, and they went out of business in 1982. NYS had enough mechanicals for a state population of 16 million (1975). It now has 20 million people. States have been scrambling for Shoup parts for most of my life.

I have infinite respect for purely mechanical machines. My favorite sewing machine (right now) is a straight stitch only treadle (followed closely by a handcrank straight stitch). They're incredible at what they do, and how they do it, and yes, they will survive almost anything, but they don't heal themselves, and they need patient care and maintenance. Mechanical machines require regular use and oiling and maintenance and not to be subjected to tragedy of the commons callousness.

Pen and paper, with or without optical scanners, are the solid compromise. Scanners that are kept air-gapped and have open source, publicly verifiable software and rigorous spot checks/hand counts are probably the fastest for users, most secure, and best compromise for tabulation. If the scanner can be trusted -- which is why it must be air-gapped, with no online capacity, and use open-source software -- it's faster and more accurate than a handcount. (Humans err about 1 in 100,000. Trustworthy scanners are between 1 in 10 million and 1 in 100 million.)

Otherwise, hand counts of paper ballots. I agree on touch screens and anything that doesn't result in a paper ballot, filled out by the human doing the voting.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
17. All I can go by........
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 02:59 AM
Sep 2017

is my experience in the country where I reside. I was an election monitor for over 25 years back then, and we never had a problem with the machines. Not one. Some of the people, yes, we had problems with people but people - as a rule - aren't very reliable to begin with. The "modern" voting machine was invented in Rochester, New York, which is in Monroe County, which is where I resided for all those years. I'm not arguing your point that there were problems somewhere with these machines, but I firmly believe they were more durable and less able to be tampered with than any other design. That's just my two cents.

A little history of early voting machines from RocWiki; The voting machine, a device designed to present a simulated ballot to voters, to register their votes, and to tally them automatically, was invented in 1848 by an English inventor named William Chamberlain, Jr., and adapted to American election practices by a Chicago inventor named Anthony C. Beranek in 1881. But the first voting machine to be manufactured and actually used in an election is a product of the fertile inventive climate of Rochester in the late 1880s.

Jacob H. Myers (1841-1920), an inventor who held numerous agricultural machinery patents and specialized in designing burglar-proof safes, drew on Chamberlain and Beranek's pioneering work to design the American Ballot Machine, which Myers revealed to the public in November, 1889.

Myers, a well-to-do Democrat, conceived his invention while following the debate over New York's adoption of the Australian secret ballot system, which election reformers believed would put an end to the notoriously corrupt election practices characteristic of New York City under Tammany Hall's leadership. Because the secret ballot compels voters to vote in secret, the reformers believed that the Australian system would put an end to vote buying. Vote buyers would be unable to see whether the voter performed his end of the bargain. But Governor David B. Hill, a Democrat, opposed the Australian ballot system. Hill knew that the election reformers harbored ill-concealed prejudices against foreign-born voters, many of whom were illiterate or were literate in a language other than English. Because the Australian system requires literacy, it would close the polls to tens of thousands of Democratic voters.

Myers designed his voting machine to accomplish two purposes. First, it would compel secret voting. Second, it would enable illiterate voters to cast their votes without assistance.

To compel secret voting, Myers designed his machine around large booth or cabinet, equipped with three self-locking doors. Once a voter entered, the entrance door locked behind him. He accomplished his vote in the voting compartment. After voting, the voter had nowhere to go but to pass through the internal door which, when it closed, prevented him from returning into the voting compartment. Closing the internal door unlocked the exit door. When the voter opened the exit door, the mechanism released the lock on the entry door, sounded a bell, and made the machine ready for the next voter.

https://rocwiki.org/Voting_machine

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
16. Maybe those lever machines couldn't be hacked but they could be screwed up
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 12:50 AM
Sep 2017

Back in the 1980s Leon County Florida had a problem election. It actually began with the previous one when at the last minute far too late for anyone else to file to run, the woman who had been Supervisor of Elections for decades announced that she was not running for re-election. Her son who had worked in the office with her for years filed, ran without opposition, and became the new Supervisor of Elections.

The first election he ran was a mess. Some of the old lever machines just didn't work right - the levers wouldn't turn. Some of the pieces of paper that listed the candidates were not lined up correctly so the names were in between levers. people didn't know if they had voted for the person above or below the lever they turned. There were lots of complaints on election day and law suits afterwards.

Those suits were why it was settled law in 2000 that Florida elections could not have a "do over" even when it was clear that the mechanism of voting had interfered with the election.

The next election, Ion Sancho ran for Supervisor of Elections and won on his promise that he would run fair and verifiable elections. He introduced paper ballots read by optical scanners. It was not until after the 2000 election that there was any question those scanners could be hacked, but since Sancho made sure the machines were properly supervised with full security, it was not a concern for Leon County voters. Plus we knew that the paper ballots could always be counted by hand. For the 2000 election all questionable ballots that could not be read by machine were scanned and put online for the public to view.

After serving as Supervisor of Elections, Ion Sancho retired last year. The person who he endorsed won the election and I hope he lives up to Sancho's trust in him.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
18. The state of Florida.....
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 03:13 AM
Sep 2017

presents problems with all types of machinery due to it's hot, humid climate. Some of the issues you mentioned sounded like they were caused by human malfunction as well. If maintained properly, those machines would last a LONG time.

I moved to Florida in 2002 after I retired. I lasted three years and I couldn't get out of there fast enough. Back to New York. I could handle winter much easier than summer in Florida. Over 100 degrees every day, and thunder storms every afternoon. You could actually see the vegetation growing before your very eyes. There were bugs as big as the New York birds as well. No, Florida didn't agree with me, so I moved back to New York. The political climate in Florida was much different as well. Just outside of the town where I lived was a billboard sponsored by The John Birch Society. I didn't know they still existed! Florida was a little too "red" for my tastes. I know many people who absolutely LOVE living in Florida, so it's just a matter of tastes. But living in New York my entire life could never have prepared me for the culture shock I experienced in Florida. Peace.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
22. At the time of the messed up election, those machines were decades old
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 12:36 PM
Sep 2017

If I remember correctly, they were bought when the technology for lever voting machines was new. Since the technology was introduced in the 1920s, they could have been fifty years old or more!

The Gear and Lever Voting Machine
The invention of a practical voting machine was the preoccupation of reformers in the late 19th century. The operating features of these gear-and-lever machines followed contemporary trends in ballot design, notably the tabular layout of the blanket ballot and the private curtained booth. By the 1920s, a market for such machines had developed in the nation's urban centers.
State and local government officials justified investments in voting machines by noting the increasing length and complexity of ballots with multiple candidates and referenda, and the doubling of electorates with the enfranchisement of women.

<SNIP>

Automatic Voting Machine brochure

From 1898 through the early 1960s, the gear-and-lever voting machine was promoted as an ideal voting technology. Though its internal mechanism changed over the years, the machine's "three steps to vote" never changed:

Pull the handle to close the curtains of the booth.
Turn the voting levers over the names of your chosen candidates to expose the Xs.
Pull the handle back to register your vote and reopen the curtains.


http://americanhistory.si.edu/vote/votingmachine.html


The ones they used looked like the picture above.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
12. If you live in a county with an R Clerk, that race should be your priority.
Fri Sep 1, 2017, 11:04 PM
Sep 2017

If you live in a state on the hacked list, your county clerk and Secretary of State are the priorities. They need to be replaced. Period. No other congressional district matters more, no other state's Senate seat matters more. And if D Clerks and SecStates are not taking this seriously, they need primary challenges by people who do care about election integrity. And your county party needs to hear from you, now. It's time to start showing up to meetings, both Party and County Clerk public meetings.

They're not sexy races, they don't get big media attention, but they're vital. They're the ones who control the technology of voting, the voter lists, the access to polling places. There are 3,142 counties/equivalents in the US, and 50 state Secretaries of State. Those 3200 people control how we vote. $10 to that campaign goes MUCH further than $10 to a House or Senate race, and getting 4 other people to work on and vote in those races can sway them.

Turf the ones who shrug and ignore, or are bribable, or anti-democratic (small d) hacks, or just don't know, don't care, more than my jobsworth, hoocoodanode?

It's boring, but Act Local. It's the only thing that ever works.

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