Really DU? Single Payer!! - but that's Conyers' Bill, no it's Bernie's

[jillan]

Really DU? You are fighting over this? Fighting over the fact that we are going to be debating Single Payer in the very near future.... hopefully within a couple of weeks. Really? Really!?

[img][/img]

Instead of squabbling about it - why don't you take a clue from Rep Conyers & Senator Sanders?

They hit the road together to talk to voters about this bill. They are working on it together.

Imagine that - A Democrat and that dang independent that caucuses and votes with the Dems are working on this together.
They've been working together on this for years.

Health care and jobs will be the focus of Conyers, Sanders town hall in Detroit

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/22/john-conyers-bernie-sanders-townhall-detroit/590697001/

btw - if you want to know who was the first elected official who tried to sell us on a national healthcare system.... his name was Truman. So if you're worried who gets credit should this actually come to pass, maybe it should be Truman.... just saying.

[brooklynite]

1. How will it be "debated"?

Regardless of who introduces it, I see no indication that there'll be any debate unless it comes up i next year's election campaigns.

[jillan]

3. It's being debated here. Right here on DU.

Just read the threads.

[brooklynite]

4. DU, much as we love it, has no influence on the outside world.

[jillan]

5. Really? Wow!

Believe me, no one ever said it did.

Kamala is going to co-sponsor Bernie's Single Payer bill that he will be introducing very soon.... in a couple of weeks. Yay!!!
I think that's great news.

Not everyone here does because Kamala is co-sponsoring Bernie's bill, and Bernie is not a democrat. And Conyers already has a bill in the House. And for some reason people here are going back and forth about who should get credit for this instead of celebrating that this is becoming a mainstream healthcare policy in the Democratic + Bernie Party.
That's all...

[LanternWaste]

36. Where exactly in the OP was that argument made?

Where exactly in the OP was that argument made?

[still_one]

12. I would use the word debate loosly in regard to this and many discussions that occur here.

[jillan]

14. Believe me - I do.

[BigmanPigman]

2. I knew Nixon was for it but Truman beats him by 20 years.

I think that is long enough to kick this idea around, don't you? Now just DO IT Congress!

[jillan]

10. People always compare trump to Nixon. Not a fair comparison.

Nixon did a couple of good things among the bad.

Trump? I haven't seen one good thing yet.

[rockfordfile]

11. Nixon was a evil pos. Trump is the same.

[JI7]

18. they are not on the same level of evil/horribleness . Trump is far worse

[phleshdef]

26. For starters, Nixon was a smart person who understood policy quite well.

[NewJeffCT]

27. agreed

Nixon may have been a terrible human being who abused his office, but he was at least competent in terms of running the government

[Rhiannon12866]

47. Jimmy Carter gives him credit for environmental concerns and establishing a relationship with China

And he actually had a health care plan - though it was never implemented. Trump has no concerns outside of himself and no knowledge - or curiosity - about the rest of the world (unless he wants to build yet another golf course).

[NewJeffCT]

28. I thought Nixon

backed what would later be called "the Public Option" in the 2009-2010 years?

[area51]

6. A bit of history

on health care legislation

[NewJeffCT]

31. Thanks!

very informative read.

It seems like Truman was the first person to propose basically the same single national insurance plan for everybody. Previous efforts from FDR and before were mainly for insurance for the poor and working class, as it was assumed the middle class and wealthy would have insurance already.

[brush]

7. Try Roosevelt. And not FDR...Teddy.

[jillan]

9. Teddy pushed for it outside of the government.

Theodore Roosevelt 1901 — 1909

During the Progressive Era, President Theodore Roosevelt was in power and although he supported health insurance because he believed that no country could be strong whose people were sick and poor, most of the initiative for reform took place outside of government. Roosevelt’s successors were mostly conservative leaders, who postponed for about twenty years the kind of presidential leadership that might have involved the national government more extensively in the management of social welfare.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Hear hear!

We need to support both the House and Senate bills and remember that just two years ago no one was even discussing this issue.

So let's hear it for our progressives who won't take no for an answer!

[R B Garr]

16. How divisive. John Conyers has introduced single payer

every year for 15 years. The Clinton's tried health care reform. Lots of good Democrats have talked about health care. Let's hear it for good Democrats.

[NurseJackie]

23. You are absolutely correct. "Let's hear it for good Democrats."

Let's hear it for good Democrats.

Amen!

[R B Garr]

24. IKR? This thread was obviously about hopping frog emoticons

for "progressives", so why not correct the record and make it inclusive about Democrats who have fought for health care for all. Obviously actually passing legislation is not the goal. It's all about the imagery, so let's be accurate.

[NurseJackie]

29. People have different priorities. I must admit that I can't relate to those...

... who are motivated by ego or vanity (or the "imagery" as you astutely observe.) I, too, believe that accuracy is important. Being honest and realistic helps us to move forward... and I can't imagine that any rational person would object to that!

[Me.]

33. Right On

So how come, when one wants to give credit for that 15 year effort, it's called divisive?

[NastyRiffraff]

35. Because only a certain Senator gets credit

for everything good. Kamala Harris only pushed for this because Bernie pushed her left, dontcha know.

I'd agree with the OP, but some people here try to pretend everything begins and ends with Sanders. So there will be pushback.

(Note to Alerter & Jury: This has nothing to do with the primary.)

[Me.]

39. There Are Baisically No New Ideas Where HealthCare Is Concerned

Everything 'old' is new again

[NurseJackie]

40. You are absolutely correct. Giving credit and taking credit are two different things entirely.

I mean, it's fine to be proud or boastful about someone's actual accomplishments. Otherwise, it's a bit unseemly and insulting to those who actually deserve the praise. That's just my opinion, and I believe the point you're making is a valid one. Your observations are astute and your explanation is concise. Well done!

[H2O Man]

34. Thank you!

[beam me up scottie]

44. Hey Waterman!

You're very welcome! I was just saying in another thread this is why we can't have nice things. Bernie's fighting for us and so is John, why is it so hard for some to admit that and commend both?

[Docreed2003]

13. National healthcare/universal healthcare? I'm all for it...

There's a vast...VAST difference between universal healthcare and single payer. In the current political environment, single payer is DOA. A hybrid system like most countries in Europe have that provides for universal care would potentially pass, under the right political winds. Yeah, I'm being a cynic here but, living in the healthcare system daily, I have to look at this situation realistically.

[jillan]

15. Nothing is going to happen until progressives take back the Senate but

when we have a representative of the progressives, a more moderate democrat AND a true statesman (Conyers) all working together we are a little bit closer to getting this as part of the democratic platform. And that is a great place to start.

Next we have to sell it. Even if it's just an addition to the existing marketplace.
We have 3 great representatives today and I'm betting more people will sign on.

I feel hope. Even if it's going to take awhile.

[beam me up scottie]

17. Exactly. Nothing our side proposes right now will pass.

Both Conyers and Sanders know that and yet they're not giving up.

We need to hammer this issue before the midterms and again in 2020. Show voters who wants health care for all and who wants to throw them to the wolves.

Good on every one of our legislators who supports these bills in both houses. I'm not going to criticize them for trying.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. No, but medicare for all is essentially single payer.

I think the way to get there is through a gradual expansion of medicaid and expansion of medicare until the two meet and everyone is under the umbrella.

[Hoyt]

30. Basically I agree. If we had a public option, buy into Medicare, people would gravitate to it

assuming it works like we think.

Long-term, there still might be 20% or so who just won't participate in a government program, no matter what. But trying to cram what is good for everyone down the throats of white wingers is a loser nowadays.

So we'd have universal coverage -- with decent subsidies from tax revenue for people who can't afford it -- and a voluntary buy-in to Medicare for those under 65 who prefer that to commercial insurance. I think that is the only chance we have of getting something reasonable enacted. While that is going on, we have to figure out how to reimburse drugs that controls cost while not impeding innovation, fair reimbursement rates, place controls on utilization that doesn't affect needed care, and a whole lot more. Whatever system we end up with, has to be affordable and sustainable.

[WePurrsevere]

37. I agree. It makes a lot of sense to use systems that already exist and...

expand on them to include everyone. Although there are areas that could use a bit of improvement (like a bigger budget to hire more workers) overall Medicare and Medicaid (which, at least in NY, covers dental & optical) are darn good programs that actually run rather well and, while slightly different in some ways and coverage, provide desperately needed coverage ALL Americans could use.

A nation with a populace that's as healthy as possible is in the best interests of everyone so it should be a top priority of any political party that actually gives a damn about PEOPLE over $$$.

[zentrum]

19. Thank you Jillian!

[beam me up scottie]

20. Kick!

Someone just dragged poor Bill Clinton into the fracas!

[Warren DeMontague]

21. ....because grinding axes and carrying grudges is all the exercise some people get?

[phleshdef]

25. Conyers and Sanders have been allies fighting together for single payer for a few decades now.

[bullwinkle428]

32. K&R. Sick of the frigging turf wars.

[Arazi]

38. Thank you, so much this

Sick of the deliberate efforts to keep us divided. That shit needs to stop

[Expecting Rain]

41. What makes some of us resentful (speaking for myself here) is that Kamala Harris was

being denounced as a neoliberal corporatist just last week.

Attacks on good Democrats on this forum rankles Democratic loyalists. Which everyone understands.

[QC]

42. Conyers and Sanders are longtime allies and friends.

This junior high lunchroom snark is getting really, really old.

[beam me up scottie]

45. Yes they are.

And yes it is. Pavlov, that's all I'm saying.

[haveahart]

43. And among other things, Truman was an "establishment" Democrat.

Just sayin'

[alarimer]

46. I like Sen. Harris' framing of health care as a right.

This is an idea that needs to be more mainstream, whether or not this particular bill passes and regardless of who sponsors and cosponsors it.