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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump said it's okay for him to pardon Joe Arpaio because Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich
did i hear that right?
mythology
(9,527 posts)unblock
(52,257 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,748 posts)Marc Rich's pardon was very controversial, and Clinton said later that he shouldn't have done it. Rich, who seems to have been pretty much of a sleazebag, had been indicted for income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (on charges brought by Rudy Giuliani, of all people, when he was a US Attorney). Fearing arrest, Rich left the country. In defending the pardon, Clinton claimed he'd received requests for clemency for Rich from a number Israeli government officials. Clinton did not go through all the customary procedures before granting the pardon, but as a condition of the pardon Rich agreed to drop all procedural defenses against any civil actions brought against him by the United States. A subsequent investigation found no wrongdoing by Clinton.
Clinton probably shouldn't have pardoned Rich, but at least he was able to offer credible reasons for having done so. The major difference between the Rich pardon and the Arpaio pardon is that Arpaio was pardoned for the crime of willfully violating a court order arising from claims that, as a law enforcement officer, he violated the civil rights of Latino people with absolutely no justification. And Trump did it only because he wanted to throw red meat to his racist base. Clinton pardoned Rich on the recommendation of other people and under the belief that he had a reasonable basis for claiming his innocence. It may not have been a god decision but it wasn't an in-your-face fuck-you to the judicial branch.
spanone
(135,846 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,748 posts)Trump pardons a dreadful old racist who intentionally violated a court order directing him to stop violating the constitutional rights of Latinos. He defends it by saying "What about Marc Rich?" Rich was a sleaze who shouldn't have been pardoned, but his pardon doesn't justify Arpaio's.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They think they should get three burger for free if Democrats get one for free.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Leith
(7,809 posts)How many people died because Marc Rich illegally incarcerated them?
How many judicial orders did Marc Rich spit at and disobey?
Well?
karynnj
(59,504 posts)I think the sheriff did far worse things, but this is not a contest. This is a pradon that Clinton should never have granted - if only because the guy did not stand trial.
Rich's pardon raised quite a stink - and rightfully so.
Still, Arpaio and his department was responsible for civil rights violations and deaths of people simply for being hispanic.
Both pardons were bad. Arpaio's was worse.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Rick nor Arpaio should have been pardoned.
In an ideal world, both would be rotting in a prison somewhere.
JI7
(89,252 posts)Just like you couldn't defend supporting hitler now by bringing up Obama opening relations with cuba.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)One reason the Rich pardon should never have happened was that he was a fugitive who fled the country rather than stand trial. Though no reason was given for his pardon, his wife was a huge donor to the Clinton Library (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2001/02/10/denise-rich-gave-clinton-library-450000/e0e10291-841a-4e38-893e-d500ee4a5b30/?utm_term=.672c9e09fb1b )
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Rich was terrible because he was involved in lots of things including things breaking the sanctions on Iran and things related to BCCI and because he was a fugitive, who never stood trial because he fled the country. Not everything Bill Clinton did was right because he was a Democrat.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Because that's the logical conclusion from that argument.
And while Marc Rich was a sleazy white collar criminal, to the best of my knowledge he never said, "Arrest everybody that looks Mexican, and we can sort out citizenship later." Because that's essentially what Arpaio was doing. Many people were locked up for days, weeks, and months and were never even accused of a crime. They just didn't have their wallets on them when the deputies decided to arrest literally every Latino in the building. Some of the Trumpsters are just plain racists (implicit and explicit), but I honestly believe many of them just know that "Sheriff Joe" was "tough on illegal immigration," with no understanding of what that actually entailed.