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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy husband is so concerned about the Arpaio pardon
Last edited Sun Aug 27, 2017, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)
that he wants to buy a gun, and I'm scared shitless. We live in a neighborhood with several vocal Trump supporters, and we're worried.
I edited this post because my original post, sent in haste, has given folks the wrong idea about my situation. I'm sorry for the confusion.
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)Reasons matter.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,455 posts)cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)and it's not just a gun he wants, but a semi-automatic. He is a smart person, and the Arpaio pardon and what it might mean for our judicial system has him more upset than I've ever seen him. Do other people think the rule of law is in danger now?
Warpy
(111,367 posts)is having a gun in the home. It's false security.
If the shit starts to fly, guns are going to do little good.
better
(884 posts)Chances are that you are reacting the way you are at least in part because you misunderstand what a semi-automatic is, which seems to be the case by virtue of your citing him wanting a semi-automatic as itself being cause for concern.
This Ruger 10/22 pictured above is a semi-automatic rifle.
It's probably not what you envisioned semi-automatic to mean.
What semi-automatic actually means is simply that once the weapon is loaded and fired, the next round is made ready to fire by the energy expended by the previous round being fired, rather than by a separate mechanical action like cycling a pump or lever mechanism. It also means that one and only one round is fired each time the trigger is pulled, or in layman's terms, that it explicitly is not a machine gun.
To put in proper perspective the implications of someone wanting a semi-automatic, one might do well to consider how a classic revolver operates. It too fires one and only one round per pull of the trigger, but the next round to be fired is moved into position immediately before it is fired and as a product of the mechanical action of pulling the trigger, rather than immediately after the previous round was fired, as a product of the energy firing the last round expended. Still, though, one round is fired each time the trigger is pulled, with no additional action being required.
Now if you are thinking to yourself, "yeah but that's not an assault weapon like the AK my husband wants to buy", this is where things get tricky. Buy that Ruger 10/22 above, remove two screws and replace the factory wooden stock with this aftermarket one, and suddenly it becomes an assault weapon, in states like NY that still have such a law in force, and under the definitions contained in both the AWB of the 90's and the one that was proposed but failed to pass in the wake of Sandy Hook.
Why? Because now it has a pistol grip and a telescoping stock. It's still exactly the same firearm, holds exactly the same number of exactly the same bullet, can fire them at exactly the same speed, and has identical safety features. The point here is that like "semi-automatic", "assault weapon" doesn't actually mean what you may think it does.
The real question you should be concerned with, in my humble opinion, is whether your husband wants to buy a gun because he fears he may need it to protect his family from threats we have good reason to expect, or to take the fight to an enemy.
The latter is most certainly cause for concern.
The former is merely cause for due caution and proper education and training.
sarisataka
(18,795 posts)leftstreet
(36,117 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)Your concern is sensible and appreciated, but it's not that.
Bengus81
(6,936 posts)Might do the trick!
Sugar Smack
(18,748 posts)Inquiring minds want to know!
Seriously, I think that learning how to use, clean, and respect a gun is a good idea for anyone in these times. It's practical, and it may become important some day for your family to learn.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Is he TOTALLY irresponsible?
???
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)We have Nazis freely marching around and a President that supports them and a majority party with it's head in the sand. I have been very anti gun but recently I have thought of assault style weapon purchasing and target shooting. If our society is allowed to fall apart, there may be no choice but to fight, better to know how. I was a very good shot as a kid so my issue would be getting used to having something in my hand that I grew to despise.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)And just to clarify - I was questioning why she is "scared shitless"
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Well, I did look up at the solar eclipse without glasses for about five seconds when I could no longer resist going outside. I don't need a seeing eye dog and can still see past 1,000 yards. Well, maybe I have a smidgen of maniac blood, just a smidgen.
Seriously, the thoughts that I am having about guns scare the shit out of me. The gigantic wall that I built against them is no longer there. What I am doing more is paying more attention to people that demonstrate good will, there are more of them than the other type, in the end the faith I put in them may be the only thing that keeps me from buying guns.
Homeoutside
(65 posts)this is what's behind the NRA's latest marketing campaign.
They filled the gun safes of Trump supporters over the past 9 years. They need new customers. Pretty good idea to sow the seeds of a new civil war and scare the other side into buying guns for protection.
cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)and I'm sorry I had to leave just after posting that--and I'm sorry I didn't post a more fuller explanation in the first place. He is afraid that Arpaio's pardon means that Trump can condone violence against people who oppose him, assuring his minions that there won't be any legal repercussions for their acts. We live next door to a well-armed Trump Supporter, who even before Trump, was difficult to talk to.
And he's talking AK-47.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I honestly am thinking AR-15 also and body armor. But so far getting there has been a big emotional step that I can't take.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...and approval by the local chief law enforcement officer. That usually takes 6-9 months. There are AK pattern rifles which are semi-auto and very similar in function to common ranch and target rifles.
Chuuku Davis
(565 posts)to buy machineguns, just notification
Still requires the FBI background check and the year long wait
And a lot of money
My last M16A2 was over $25,000
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Good to know the CLEO approval is gone. A law should be deterministic rather than capricious and arbitrary.
If I had $25k I spend it on bills and repairs.
fallout87
(819 posts)AK-47's are semi auto. You would have to find a class 3 dealer to get a full auto ak-47
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)An "AK-47" is a select fire assault rifle. IMHO neither an actual "AK-47" nor any of its semi-auto variants are ideal for a home/personal defense weapon. FMJ 7.62 would over penetrate in most home conditions.
Most AKs have the accuracy to hit a man sized target at between 200-300 yards. This requires ideal conditions and also make these rifles a poor choice for hunting. Their saving grace is remaining operable in poor environments.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)he's had training and he's not legally, emotionally or mentally challenged, it's between you both to decide.
If it's for protection or to alleviate fear... it will create the absolute opposite. It invites escalation of trouble. If it's for keeping around the house, it could be disasterous for all the reasons neither of you can anticipate.
The catch in my first paragraph is that few if any of us can meet all that criteria.
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)It all depends on the mindset of the owner/seeker of the gun, if it's for target practice or hunting and the owner is trained in it's use and care of it then I find nothing wrong.
If it's because of a thought process that it would have to be used on another human being then I would be apprehensive.
Protection in the home is a reason that can be stated but although I have a gun for that purpose my first reaction involves calling the police, no BS there, I call the cops and then get my gun, the police are your only option to protect your family.
When you make that your priority you are doing it right, the gun is ALWAYS your secondary option, when you decide you have enough time to go for your gun you have enough time to call the police.
If you don't call the police first they are not on their way, nobody knows it's an emergency, then you're on your own.
Besides a baseball bat makes a good weapon for protection, and you don't have to load it or worry about a round going through a wall.
Just my thoughts.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)But you can't account for the unexpected circumstances it causes. You also can't account for the mental/emotional factor. No one can. It's the ghost in the closet that's caused a lot of sorrow. As far as police, they come in many different versions depending on where you live what their background is.
Is it worth it? That's the decision here an individual or the OP can decide.
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)I've had weapons training and have fired a couple thousand rounds in my life but yes the mere presence of a gun creates it's own problems.
This is why I don't carry concealed, I feel that Im not perfect and can make mistakes that can turn out badly, I'm pretty sure I won't but there's always the unknowable.
Another reason I don't fire my weapons, the more you handle them the more it becomes normal to have one in your hand, I don't want it to be normal for me, only in the gravest extreme.
Grammy23
(5,815 posts)to an authoritarian style dictatorship? That he will need it for defense? Does he have a feud with the neighbors? Explain please. Your post could mean many different things, as indicated by the responses to it!
Sugar Smack
(18,748 posts)it may be the best one can do, using a gun.
<- coffee
Grammy23
(5,815 posts)The only thing they study and fixate on is how to defeat my Squirrel Buster Bird Feeder. So far, they have been kept out of that feeder and eat what falls on the ground or what we scatter for them. No signs of rabies, so far. Just pissed off squirrels who never give up trying!LOL
Doreen
(11,686 posts)the feed store and planted them in front of the window so I could watch them nibbling in the window. I also had a squirrel feeder that they could get the nuts from also. They did still try to get to the bird feeder but not near as much. Also, if your bird feeder is on a pole I found that Crisco or vegetable oil thoroughly lathered on is an excellent deterrent and funny as hell to watch them try to get up and it does not harm them.
Grammy23
(5,815 posts)It has a spring system and when the squirrels get on it, it slides a cover over the holes where the seeds come out. The birds are too light to close it up. The squirrels can put one leg on it and it closes. It did not take them long to figure out they were wasting their time!!
Doreen
(11,686 posts)Grammy23
(5,815 posts)We have a bay window in our kitchen. I used to have a bird feeder that was on the window with suction cups. The squirrels would shinny up the metal frame work of the window and then would tentively stick one leg over trying to grab hold of the feeder. As soon as he didn't have four legs holding on the frame he would start to slip and slide down the frame. The first time it happened we kept hearing a scratching sound but didn't know where it was coming from. Finally, we saw the squirrel sliding down the frame work and just about died laughing. He kept trying over and over to figure out how to hold on and grab at the same time. Eventually, he gave up but he had us laughing for quite a while!
P.s. Our squirrels are well fed. We toss some seed out for them in the yard and apples if they get too far gone for us to eat. They seem to like left over sweet potato fries and pork rinds, too.
Doreen
(11,686 posts)a few times for the bird seed until I got the Crisco. I never knew they would be picky...snots. I fed apples and pears to the deer. The Raccoons would eat the squirrels nuts so I had to take the nut container in each night. I left them a handful of nuts when I took the nuts in for the night.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)I'd bet you'd be happy your husband purchased that gun...
I used to be very anti-gun...not anymore...I'm not Ms. Locked and Loaded
hunter
(38,334 posts)People keeping guns at hand for "self defense" are too likely to shoot someone who doesn't deserve to be shot.
Personally I don't allow imaginary bad guys of the sort I'd care to shoot to live in my head.
Anyone whose guns are not locked up in a safe 99% of the time is paranoid and foolish.
Corgigal
(9,291 posts)My husband and I just went through this. However, in these times I understand it. My husband even went through the conceal weapons permits class. We now have a handgun, and a shotgun.
As long as you have no small children around, no one with a mental illness, and a great place to lock it up, you'll be ok.
While I hate that it has come to this, I do feel a bit safer while we travel around. Something happened to us at a rest area, just two months back during a early afternoon. Everyone is fine, but it's those times, when you never though you would ever need it, that you might. Life can take a quick turn, and while it's a major decision, I can't think it won't happen here.
samnsara
(17,650 posts)...gun safety courses. We even competition shot a few times ( I always came in last). Guns aren't evil and shouldn't be scary if you learn to use them. We have concealed weapons permits ( however my medical marijuana card makes me ineligible to have it renewed)...but the last time I actually carried a concealed weapon was when I worked as a social worker in a very bad area......many years ago... In Fact.. our local Democrat Party wants to start a Second Amendment group..those of us with guns get together for friendly competitions with the local GOP. They will be surprised to know how many of us are actually gun owners
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)The FBI will shortly put a stop to his ability to buy a gun from any dealer. It does take little time for the information to go from the local police to the FBI databases. If his brother gifts him old Smoky, there is little that one can do about that.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)what is wrong with the "domestic violence" restrictions on firearms ownership. Rather than a conviction after investigation and trial, one person can make a false accusation that prevents another person from having a Constitutional right.
Would you be as comfortable with some anonymous person being able to interfere with your right to vote or travel, based on how they feel about you?
peggysue2
(10,843 posts)and we're not scary. It all depends on the 'why' to own a gun and that the owner be responsible and competent. Same goes for driving a car. I wouldn't want to meet a crazy person behind the wheel anymore than a crazy gun owner.
My only stipulation is guns around children. My husband wanted a gun years ago. But until the kids were out of the house, my answer was emphatically NO. Now? We spend time at the local range and my husband can boast what a sharpshooter he is. Actually, he is amazingly good.
So, the buying part shouldn't be scary as long as your husband takes a safety class and treats the gun with respect for what it is: a deadly weapon. The first rule I heard from our instructor: Never pick up and aim a weapon at someone unless you're ready to kill.
That stuck with me.
samnsara
(17,650 posts)...in fact our instructor ( who was an ex cop) said if you shoot someone IN your home in self defense..shoot THREE times. I have a laser on my glock so I never miss. And I told my neighbors if they hear 3 shots coming from my side of the canyon (we live way up in the mtns) so call the cops....cuz that means I killed someone.
peggysue2
(10,843 posts)The idea that you pull a gun to frighten someone off or wing an intruder is faulty and very likely to get you and your loved ones killed. Once you pick the weapon up and aim, the intent is to kill, period. Grim but true.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)or is it for home protection?
Where is he going to get training? -- From one of the many white wing gun nuts, or someone who honestly teaches don't use a gun if there is another way out. There's a difference between those like George Zimmerman and those who truly buy a gun in case someone breaks a window and tries to enter the house late at night. Unfortunately, my experience is there are a lot of Zimmermans with gunz, who truly believe they are law-abiding, responsible gun owners, but really aren't.
There are other things to consider too. Is he proned to anger, does he take medications that alter judgement, is he a macho type who likes to intimidate, who does he fear, etc.
If he is truly interested in home defense and gun safety, I wouldn't be too worried.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But recently I have thought of buying guns and doing extensive target practice when I have the time. I am sort of taken aback because the guns that I want are high powered rifles or assault weapons. I have never wanted such stuff before, but as I see Nazis and historical hate groups freely marching in our streets and I see a President who supports them, I now feel an urge to arm up and become expert at using the guns that I buy. I hate the thought of killing, but I sense that there may be no choice soon.
fishwax
(29,149 posts)Seems like there could be a wide range of responses to both questions, and without narrowing them down it's hard too respond to your post.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Makes a difference.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)You have deeper issues in your relationship and need to ask yourself what the real issue is. A person doesn't become dangerous once they have a gun.
If your just scared of the gun, set a condition that you both take a firearms safety course and make sure you are familiar with how it works and how to safely handle it. Being unfamiliar with guns can bring irrational level of fear from an inanimate object, learn to use it and be safe with it and turn that fear into a healthy respect for what it is.
If you are unsure of where to get training that you would be comfortable with, look up Operation Blazing Sword. It is a movement started after the Pulse Nightclub shooting to help LGBT people who wish to learn how to use firearms for self defense by networking they with LGBT trainers. They have a huge list of LGBT friendly firearms instructors who will give you safe training and not be the right wing stereotypes you probably are scared of running in to looking for training- and you don't have to be LGBT to reach out to any of them.
FWIW, you are thousands of times more likely to be killed by a medical error this year than a firearm safely stored in the home. Now a few percentage points, but thousands of time more likely. If your not "scared shitless" every time you go to the doctor or get a prescription refill, ask yourself why something far safer than that scares you.
samnsara
(17,650 posts)...its a crap shoot if you come out of there better.
politicat
(9,808 posts)More talking is always a good idea. If you're scared of the machine that fires metal projectiles, you need to talk about it. It would be unreasonable for a partner to buy a pet tarantula if the other partner is arachnophobic, and if the tarantula-lover did so anyway, that person is being an asshole. If you're scared of *your spouse with a machine that fires metal projectiles*, that indicates deeper problems, and you definitely need a counselor, or possibly to leave, because it means you already feel deeply threatened.
I grew up on military bases, so guns were just part of the scenery. I have never had (a functional) one in my home since I left my parents' households. There's no point -- I'm not going to stop a home invasion with one. I am not going to protect myself from a no-knock (mistaken address) warrant with one. Having one in my car is likely to make a traffic stop worse. Carrying one in a store just makes others uncomfortable and more fearful. I don't hunt. I already have damaged hearing, and I don't see the fun in making loud noises with expensive metal.
I do keep an aluminum softball bat and an aerosol can of something nasty as home protection. Not pepper spray, because I have experienced pepper spray and know how easy it is to get back-splash and how hard it is to get out of a confined space like a home. My go-to is wasp killer with a trigger spray. I use those specifically because a bat cannot become an accidental or impulsive suicide or homicide tool, and my goal in defending my house is to incapacitate the trespasser for 5-7 minutes. I also have good locks and door frames, and cameras.
Definitely figure out *why* he thinks this is a good idea. If nothing else, it's an expensive purchase that will require expensive training and regular practice. That alone means it's something that requires discussion, rules, and communication. If he's unwilling or unable to talk about his feelings, that indicates another need for counseling.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)It will do absolutely nothing to stop an attacker.
That's the urban legend that will not go away. People keep spreading it as self defense advice and it's 100% bad info.
Wasp spray can damage the eyes- but it's not fast acting. You can be sprayed with it and remain 100% functional. You may have some permeant damage to sight later but that's long after an attack would be over. Those 5-7 minutes you want to incapacitate a person it will have virtually no effect on them.
So not only will it not stop an attack quickly like pepper spray, it's capable or permenant damage where pepper spray is not. It's literally everything you don't want. Especially since you can possibly open yourself to a civil suit from someone if you damage their vision by intentionally choosing to use something that has as its only effect permanent damage over something that is temporary.
Get yourself some quality pepper spray that shoots a solid stream of your concerned about backspray. In a home with no wind it won't spray back at you.
politicat
(9,808 posts)I'll look for something else, but given the layout of our home, if someone's coming in without our permission, there are multiple chokepoints where we have cover and concealment and the trespasser doesn't. The primary point of entry is also where my home library lives, and I do not want to have to destroy two tons of books through contamination (especially because a lot of them are rare) or move them all to replace that flooring and drywall. The truly rare ones are behind glass, but they'd have to be moved, and we or our insurer's remediation team would have to do it, while dealing with residue.
I'll look for the dye and citric acid versions, instead.
Oneironaut
(5,530 posts)- Its effectiveness hasn't been studied, and it isn't thought to be of any use.
- The cans are huge and unwieldy - especially in a tense situation
- You may be violating the law or opening yourself to a lawsuit. Most cans say that misusing the product is a violation of federal law. Don't give a low life who is trying to hurt you and his scumbag attorney a free pay day.
- The ultimate goal is to get away - pepper spray temporarily stuns. Bee spray might not have as much of an effect. You want a quick, intense pain where the eyes are forced shut by reflexes. The time it takes for the pain to build up in your attackers' eyes from bee spray (if there is any) may allow them to hurt you or worse. This could be seconds to minutes where they can go after you (if it works at all).
- Pepper spray fits in your pocket, so you can take it anywhere.
- The poison in bee spray doesn't "punish" the attacker by making them sick. It's only strong enough to hurt bugs. It's near useless when it comes to poisoning humans.
- Many pepper sprays contain UV dye, which can mark your attacker. Some even contain visible dye.
Hope this helps.
politicat
(9,808 posts)I got it.
I don't take weapons into public. Ever. A shield is the closest I get. (Quaker, Peace testimony. Even defense of home is a morally grey area. Self or others is okay, but should be done in a way that minimizes the risks of lethal harm. If someone keeps punching my shield, that's their choice, because they always have the option of Not Doing That.)
Thus why we have good locks, cameras, reinforced door frames, and a house that is de facto defensible. Passive defense is always better than active.
Blecht
(3,803 posts)What is the point of this?
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)samnsara
(17,650 posts)... you should take lessons so they don't scare you. Guns aren't a BAD thing. Get a Lady Smith and Wesson.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)daddy's guns, spouses getting shot in domestic arguments, etc.
I don't get too concerned about someone who wants a gun or two around the house for hunting and in the unlikely event someone tries to break in.
When it's too many guns, or people are strapping them on to go to the store, there's a problem.
People aren't really afraid of gunz. They might be afraid of the people that have them though.
I find the typical gun fancier in this country -- not necessarily you -- are white wing racists. I grew up in the South around a lot of gun nuts and have been to plenty of gun stores and shows -- it's mostly angry/hateful white wingers.
hunter
(38,334 posts)Fools and their guns are soon parted.
The only exceptions are living on a ranch or hunting a few sorts of animals to eat.
But hunting really hasn't caught on with my generation and beyond. Most of the hand-me-down guns have been destroyed. My brother still has my grandpa's favorite deer rifle, but he doesn't hunt.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)wewillfight
(2 posts)I would make sure he keeps it safe. Keep it in a locked cabinet, always have safety on/have it unloaded. If you're scared of him having a gun, it seems like there may be trust issues, but I think there needs to be more context.
doc03
(35,387 posts)the 2nd Amendment? I truly believe we have a fascist takeover of our government. We may need to take back our country, possession of a gun is more important than ever now.
moda253
(615 posts)White wingers stated this over and over and over again during Obama's presidency.
He isn't going to take away the 2nd. He is going to remove all of POC's, LGBTQ, and possibly liberals ability to have any sort of class mobility, to be able to advance or to improve their station in life and likely will try to make us a second (or third) class citizen. They will enslave us, in less than obvious manners.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Those idiotic rallies he loves to hold, whipping up his far-gone base -- those folks are big 2nd Amendment obsessives! Note their open-carry weapons, or just read their t-shirt slogans.
doc03
(35,387 posts)Putin that will be his first move. It's what dictators do.
jpak
(41,760 posts)One's credibility suffers
IMHO
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)a person who feels they need to protect themselves especially if you live in an area where there are gun-toting idiots.
bluestarone
(17,062 posts)this x 1000
hunter
(38,334 posts)National Domestic Violence Hotline
Staffed 24 hours a day by trained counselors who can provide crisis assistance and information about shelters, legal advocacy, health care centers, and counseling.
1-800-799-SAFE (7233)
1-800-787-3224 (TDD)
http://www.feminist.org/911/crisis.html
davsand
(13,421 posts)I have no idea what sort of security threat your husband feels is present, and it is entirely possible he may have not shared all the information with you. I also have to admit that there are times when people sense/feel a threat that they can't explain or maybe even articulate. Is it possible this is at work here?
I grew up with guns. I have family members that teach conceal carry classes as well as tactical defense classes. I've lived with guns in the house, and properly handled/secured I don't see them as being much different than a kitchen knife block. Properly used they are a useful tool, in the wrong hands a possible danger. I don't own any guns now. I have none in my house. I also judge the risk in my area to be minimal with an adequate police response time. I practice a level of home security that makes sense to me--so I'm good. Somebody else might feel safer with more defensive measure, and some people don't lock their doors ever... It's a personal decision.
Going to the range is an excellent practice to get into and can actually be fun if you are a competitive sort. I would suggest that unless you want to conceal and carry, a shot gun makes an excellent weapon for home defense simply because in times of high stress a shot gun doesn't require as much precision. If somebody kicks in your front door you will be highly stressed. Unless you have trained for that you are probably better off with the wider coverage a shotgun will provide. I know there are people who will disagree with me on this, but it might be worth some thought.
Good luck sorting this out. Don't be afraid to be armed and liberal if that is what you choose to do.
Laura
Calculating
(2,957 posts)It's a great hobby if nothing else, and they provide valuable security for your home and family. In these increasingly uncertain times it's always a good idea to have a means to control your own destiny.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Beginning to think this OP is a fishing expedition.
If for some reason cyclonefence cannot respond I apologize for casting aspersions on your thread.
That said, why do people assume liberals do not own guns? Yeah, we may skew more urban, but we are still Americans and Americans of all stripes have always owned guns. Love it or hate it, it is part of who we are. I know many here would like to change that, but we are no closer to that goal, which I do not share, than we have ever been.
Lots of Democrats I know own guns and hunt as do I.
Have a nice evening.
cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)If I missed your post (I could not possibly respond to every one; I did not read every one) I apologize.
My husband is finally alarmed enough by what Trump is doing--the Arpaio pardon was the final straw--to feel physically threatened by the Trump supporters around here. I am scared shitless that things have come to this pass.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)... to clarify that you don't fear domestic violence or being intentionally shot by your husband.
Scary political times that have the potential for violence often see a surge in firearms sales. There was a big one after 9/11.
When the G8 came to town my neighbors asked to borrow my shotgun. It's natural to want to protect yourself when feeling unsure, but I recommend gifting him with a shooting/firearm training course for his birthday or other holiday ASAP.
cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)for the suggestion, but I think it's past time for doing that--responses are dying down, and I don't want to do anything to stir it up again. As I explained in one (or more) of my responses, I was on DU when my husband announced he wanted to buy a gun, and then we immediately left to see a friend in the hospital. If I'd been able to stick around, I could have clarified immediately. It was sort of a panic post on my part.
I was really happy, though, to see how many DUers were there with support for a woman who might feel threatened by her husband. I of course hadn't even considered that my post might be seen that way--panic, you know--but it's good to know people are so aware.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I will no encourage nor discourage you gun purchase.
But decisions made in fear are often flawed. If you get a gun then get professional training and practice, practice and practice.
And BTW, your professional training is probably going to be given by a trump fanatic. It's one of the main reasons I no longer enjoy going to the rage. There is always some asshole there spouting off about trump and all the usual freeperville shit. Maybe you can find a liberal instructor on line. Maybe a pink pistol group nearby?
Have a nice day b
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)I realize that the proper forums for discussing firearm issues are the specific gun and NRA threads. But I wanted to specify that one should not buy one just because of "protection" unless one is going to invest one hell of a lot of time and money to acclimate oneself to the weapon. Unlike Nazi's (I won't bother with the redundant "Republican" or "conservative" anymore and just use Nazi as the singular noun) who don't give a damn about who and where they shoot, if you are going to spend hundreds of dollars for a firearm, and hundreds of dollars for a license, and hundreds of dollars for ammunition, and hundreds of dollars for training and minimum qualification, and then after that, risk going to jail even if you use your gun within what you THINK are the constraints of the law, then STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM GUNS.
Back to banning the guns: If only federal law enforcement personnel were the only ones authorized guns, then we would have a far safer country. Just look at Australia when they banned guns. I personally would like to see a minimum 20 year sentence for owning a gun. People say that confiscating the guns would be difficult, but if we put as much effort in arresting resistant gun owners as we do in arresting and profiling black motorists and pedestrians, we could have every gun confiscated within a couple of years. Once that happens, no more problems.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Given that you're proposing to make felons out of circa 20-25% of the population...
...without expecting at least a sizeable minority of them to oppose you tooth and nail, I'm going to have to go with the latter...
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...how uninformed are so many folks. BTW that "20-25%" estimate is, IMHO, really low.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...for the purported betterment of society.
It just goes to show that the mindset that gave us both the War on (Some) Drugs and the Trump regime
can also be found in supposedly progressive circles.
As many others have noted: It's not about guns, it's about control
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22it%27s+not+about+guns%2C+it%27s+about+control%22+site%3Ademocraticunderground.com&oq=%22it%27s+not+about+guns%2C+it%27s+about+control%22+site%3Ademocraticunderground.com&gs_l=psy-ab.3...11107.15640.0.15935.2.2.0.0.0.0.79.152.2.2.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.QQGn8gK5KsQ
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)"As many others have noted: It's not about guns, it's about control."
Exactly! And when nobody has guns, progressives have far more power. What's the argument here?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Which runs smack up against an inconvenient couple of things known as 'the Trump presidency' and
perhaps 'the Pence presidency'. Trump is, well, Trump- and Pence is a Christian Dominionist.
We all know damn well their supporters do not hesitate to employ violence against their enemies.
Can you say "Republic of Gilead"?
Your ideas seems either to be a) so naive as to be dangerous, or b) the product of someone living under
an overpass
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Make sure he takes a good firearm safety course (you should, too). Get a gun safe. Store weapon and ammunition separately and securely. Get to a gun range and learn to use it properly. Make sure he's truly a responsible gun owner.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)People protect themselves, if they are able, by getting an education, a good job, moving to safer neighborhoods, having supportive friends and family, good first responders, not corrupt and racist ones.
You protect yourself, by not buying drugs in bad parts of town, hanging out in dive bars, cheating on your spouse, screwing over your friends and clients.
In short, avoid imprudent things or just being an outright asshole or criminal.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...buying drugs in bad parts of the world, hanging out with oppressive leaders, cheating on your spouse, screwing over your friends, clients and well everyone may get you elected. (But only if you're a Republican.)
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Sorry, as a probability guy there is no chance I would ever own a gun, or live with someone who owned one.
The intentions may be fine. But the basic math of 24/7/365 availability more than overwhelms the likelihood of successful usage in a flash moment of need against a threatening criminal.
Far more likely given that 24/7/365 the gun would be summoned in an emotional dispute, stumbled upon by a curious teenager, etc.
Merely using it successfully is a longshot in itself, even if all other obstacles were avoided. Gun owners are also more likely to invent threatening conditions than non-owners, almost as justification of ownership, and tragically use the gun when the threat is more imagined than real.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Wonder how they get away with it.
Cosmocat
(14,575 posts)Unless you wear it in a holster on your side at all times, a gun is nothing more than a binky for insecure fuckwits (outside of those in actual law enforcement).
Better to take Karate, generally be aware of your surroundings at all times, etc.
Second - the practical reality is that we now live in a time when liberals have to acknowledge the threat that comes from public displays that could be a trigger for off the hinge conservatives. It is in good part dependent on where you live. But, it is only a matter of time before someone gets shot out of the blue for wearing an anti-trump t-shirt of having an anti trump bumper sticker or yard sign.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Opinion passed off as fact aside...
Nothing wrong with self-defense classes and situational awareness- in fact, I'd recommend them as well.
Sadly, it most likely has already happened- but situational awareness, karate classes, a strong commanding voice*, cans of
beans*, and bicycle wheels* will do nothing to prevent someone with bad intent using a firearm against you.
*All of these have seriously been suggested as self-defense techniques here at DU
Speaking for myself, I prefer not to cower and hope the crazies don't notice me. Doing so only cedes
public spaces to regressives.
Cosmocat
(14,575 posts)neither will a gun.
If someone is going to walk up and shoot you, they are going to walk up and shoot you.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...them not to have one.
Your arguments are faulty in that a) you purport that that the only danger one might face is being attacked from ambush,
therfore having a gun is useless,
and b) the only defensive gun use is shooting someone.
For that matter, "If someone is going to walk up and shoot you", then what good are karate lessons
(or any other self-defense techniques, for that matter)?
Cosmocat
(14,575 posts)You are posing a right wing argument here, gun worship above all.
My point about guns is practicality, your responses to the point are the same i have gotten 1,000 from "conservatives."
This isn't the wild west, and it isn't a Clint Westwood movie, gtfu and let go of the binky.
sarisataka
(18,795 posts)I'll take the word of an anonymous tough-talking internet poster over the CDC any day of the week.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)At least I think they are, as they don't seem to be doing anything else that's actually working for them...
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Defensive Gun Uses: New Evidence from a National Survey (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226799270_Defensive_Gun_Uses_New_Evidence_from_a_National_Survey [accessed Aug 29, 2017].
The number of civilian defensive gun uses (DGUs) against criminal attackers is regularly invoked in public policy debates as a benefit of widespread private ownership of firearms. Yet there is considerable uncertainty for the prevalence of civilian DGUs, with estimates ranging from 108,000 (using the National Crime Victimization Survey) to 2.5 million (using smaller telephone surveys) per year. In this paper we analyze the results of a new national random-digit-dial telephone survey to estimate the prevalence of DGU and then discuss the plausibility of the results in light of other well-known facts and possible sources of bias in survey data for sensitive behaviors. Because DGU is a relatively rare event by any measure, a small proportion of respondents who falsely report a gun use can produce substantial overestimates of the prevalence of DGU, even if every true defensive gun user conceals his or her use. We find that estimates from this new survey are apparently subject to a large positive bias, which calls into question the accuracy of DGU estimates based on data from general-population surveys. Our analysis also suggests that available survey data are not able to determine whether reported DGU incidents, even if true, add to or detract from public health and safety.
As for the insults? Meh- the gibes of the cranky and politically ineffectual carry no sting for me...
sweetapogee
(1,168 posts)if you BOTH can pass the national instant background check (which I'm sure will be no problem) and are willing to receive instruction on safe handling practices then go for it.