Arguments stupid people use

[Goodheart]

These are some of my favorites:

"Cars kill more people than guns. Should we ban cars, too?"

"There is no overpopulation problem. Everybody on Earth could fit inside Texas".

"The Constitution doesn't say 'separation of church and state'".

[Iggo]

1. Check, check, and check.

EDIT: I saw a new version of that first one involving cyclists and pedestrians to argue against helmets. Funny and sad.

[Freddie]

2. Why should I pay for your health insurance?

I usually shoot back - why should I pay for the bloated military and never ending wars?

[smirkymonkey]

16. This!

Why should I pay for corporate welfare?

[treestar]

29. Also why do they assume they are paying

anything. Middle class gets most of the tax breaks - the top 5% are the ones paying, as shown in that way they were the ones getting the taxcut in Trumpnoncare.

You should not have children if you can't afford them is another one like that. Then logically they should be against the child tax credits and deductions - they don't need them as they can afford the kids - and as if no one's income ever changes for the worst.

[stopbush]

38. Middle class get most of the tax cuts? Do you have a reputable source for that statement?

[treestar]

70. I didn't say cuts

By the time the middle class deductions and credits are considered, are these right wingers really actually paying in to the system, so they can sanctimoniously declare that they are paying for the poor people's health insurance, etc.?

We are talking about right wingers and their snotty claims that they are working to pay for food for (lazy non-job having) people.

[Freddie]

41. "You shouldn't have children if you can't afford them"

But you're opposed to contraception, right?

[treestar]

71. Exactly.

I have dedected that in the end, what they really want to do is make sexual activity a privilege of people with about as much money as they have. You see them saying "shut your legs" to women - it's that they want them to remain celibate, because they are too poor for this "privilege."

[IronLionZion]

47. Middle class pays taxes

the wealthiest people hire people to find as many deductions, credits, subsidies, loopholes, etc. as possible. Wealthy people are the ones who lobbied to get most of the deductions put into our tax code. They write off most everything as a business expense. They have ways of making out like bandits while reporting a business loss on paper.

[haele]

57. Try to define middle class, and you'll find out most people aren't.

Middle class isn't "median income", middle class is a sociologically defined lifestyle, whether they're making "median income" or six figures. And most middle class people make six figures.

Middle class people don't take standard deductions on their taxes, they itemize.

Here's the rule of thumb or "accepted" idealization of a middle class household:

A middle class family owns their house (mortgage and tax deductions). A middle class income earner might own their own business or works as a professional somehow (business deductions). A middle class income earner typically has a degree or requires training that must be maintained - or sends their kids to school (student loan/educational loan deductions/child care deductions). A middle class income earner tends to have a retirement plan (retirement savings deductions) and long-term investment tax shelters (more deductions).

A middle class income earner will make whatever deductions they can pre-tax, to lower their income to a more median wage earner where they might be able to take advantage of tax credits to offset the income as well as the itemized deductions. Most middle class households end up paying taxes on stated incomes that are at least a quarter less than they actually make as "take home", and a lot of their income is deferred or set aside for specific expenses that are also tax deductible later on in life - set aside in educational funds, health savings accounts, and various types of trusts.

The ability to set aside at least half your income after the basic food/clothing/shelter/utilities/transportation/insurance bills and other household or profession debts are paid tends to set the demarcation of working class to middle class.

And most people who can put half their income aside for entertainment and/or savings also know how to drop their tax liabilities to a level that they can deduct a large amount of that "extra money" and not pay as much for the privilege of using the public resources and infrastructure to support the lifestyle their income provides for them - unlike most working households whose income basically just pays the bills every month and leaves very little left over.

Most economists identify the middle class - if they can agree on the metrics - as starting with the top 15 - 10% of income wage earners in this country. The wealthy start at the top 5%.
Everyone else is either identified as "average taxpayer" - working class, working professionals (my bracket), working poor, or poor. The group of wage earners who can't afford to set aside enough savings for interest earnings to start kicking in. Who live paycheck to paycheck, with maybe only 10% left over after all the bills are paid, who depend on credits and the standard deductions rather than itemizing and deferring to lower their tax liabilities in April; who depend on their refunds to be able to "break even" on their outstanding debts, or if they have been able to keep their budgets manageable, replace an appliance or make that one repair they've been putting off because they've just not been able to save the money over the year.


Haele

[treestar]

72. Right wingers don't look at it that way though

They are mostly middle class themselves, temporarily embarrassed millionaires, who should not have to pay for anyone else's health care. I just question if the math shows they really are.

They will also rant on about how the rich pay more in taxes than the not-rich do (didn't that latest snobby chick say so?). So we are supposed to feel guilty that they may pay for something to benefit the poor, who haven't "earned" it the way the rich did.

[unblock]

31. oh, i'm sorry, did i *cough*ebola*cough* on you?

if only for infectious diseases, everyone should want everyone to have health care.

[rurallib]

40. My response is "I have a highly contagious deadly disease. What's it worth to you

not to catch it?"

[Oneironaut]

4. My favorites:

- You can't prove that God doesn't exist. God exists!

- Global warming is a hoax. Look at all of the snow outside!

- White supremacists - The Bible says that we should hate Jews! (Seriously)

- Transgender people are draining military resources and morale! They're purposely going into the military to get sex changes!

- An armed society is a polite society (because there's nothing better than ethics based solely on fear, right?)

[hack89]

5. "Its just a theory"

"I just shoveled a foot of global warming" even though it is a logical result of warmer global temperatures.

[Oneironaut]

8. Arggghhh... Also, "Not all scientists agree that global warming is real!" because 1 scientist out of

5000 disagrees.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

53. +1

Because clearly that ONE scientist holding a contrary opinion matters more than nearly everybody else.

[marylandblue]

56. The church once disagreed with Galileo

Therefore that one scientist is Galileo.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

60. Good point

Stepped into that one..........

Of course, we're not talking about scientists vs. scientists with Galileo

[Goodheart]

9. Evolution is just a theory, therefore God exists.

I love the "therefore God exists" arguments.

Here's a great resource for them:

[link:http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm|

[Proud Liberal Dem]

54. Or Creationism deserves "equal time" with Evolution

as though both are competing, empirical, equally valid theories

[Oneironaut]

62. Also, the idea that creationism should be taught in science classes in school.

There is zero evidence of creationism, yet the RWNJs act like it's a "competing theory" with evolution. It's not a scientific theory at all! No scientist (minus a few outliers, maybe) actually thinks creationism is a valid theory. There is as much evidence for creationism as there is that the Odyssey really happened as described in the story.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

64. Yup

There is no empirical (i.e. scientific) evidence to substantiate creationism, however wingnuts still repeatedly demand to have it taught as though it has some basis in scientific fact.

[PassingFair]

65. I always ask, "Which creation story"?

The Egyptian god Atum masturbating and spitting out humans?

Never really goes beyond that question.

[anneboleyn]

68. Crucial, "therefore the EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN GOD EXISTS" All other gods are somehow

disqualified from this "proof." Honestly these people have never even thought through this argument, and they never have a response for it as AT BEST it's an argument for deism, meaning some god may exist. There is nothing in it that justifies the existence of their god vs. gods such as Shiva and Krishna, the Buddha, Odin, Zeus, the Great Spirit, etc etc.

I have seen many debates between atheists and Christians (usually evangelicals who read "proof" from the Christian bible during the debates) who will make ridiculous arguments about how a moth turning green (whatever -- take your pick) is PROOF that god exists. They are frequently allowed to get away with the fundamentally stupid and incorrect notion that such "proof" proves that the Christian god of the Christian bible exists, and created everything they see, instead of having it pointed out to them that even if one agrees that some moth turning x color proves god there's no reason it proves their god.

[Goodheart]

7. Atheists have no moral foundation, therefore God exists.

[Oneironaut]

10. Also - "Why don't you just go and start killing everybody? Morals only come through God!"

The idea that we don't need a sky fairy watching us 24/7 to be good people is totally foreign to them.

[Major Nikon]

22. Meanwhile their moral foundation gives instructions on how to properly sell your kids

[unblock]

34. i love the "morality flows only from god" argument.

so, i'm supposed to trust you to be a moral person after you tell me that it's all contingent on your continued belief in something no one can see, hear, smell, touch, taste, or prove? and that if at any moment you can decide it doesn't exist then there's nothing stopping you from murder, rape, theft, etc.?

[Wounded Bear]

35. A conscience is that little voice inside you that says...

somebody's watching.

[Major Nikon]

20. Anything that ends with "therefore god exists" you can be assured is sack of hammers stupid

[HughBeaumont]

6. Good thread.

"Hitler was a card carrying lefty"

"There's no poverty in America. If you're homeless in America, you're part of the one percent of the world!"

"Everyone starts in the same place. If you're poor, it's because you don't WANT it bad enough!"

"Every unemployed person is obviously a lazy leech welfare queen!"

"Pulling myself up by my bootstraps and starting my own business worked for ME!"

[Oneironaut]

11. "National Socialism has SOCIALISM in it! Socialists are Nazis!"

[HughBeaumont]

12. Like the meme says, they're going to be REALLY confused when it comes to Buffalo Wings.

[Goodheart]

13. It's one thing to have policy disagreements with bright people

and you might think that that other position would be stupid to implement because of its consequences, but some arguments can only come from stupid people.

[IronLionZion]

14. The only reason we don't see wings on buffalo

is because they are removed at a young age and eaten.

[smirkymonkey]

17. It's funny, but they kind of taste like chicken.

[IronLionZion]

32. That's how they convinced people to eat strange foods

by telling us it tastes like chicken.

[ET Awful]

21. An excellent essay to follow on to the "Hitler was a lefty" discussion

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

[IronLionZion]

15. The enemy has trained dogs to sniff out menstrual blood

so we should not allow trans soldiers (even though most trans people of both genders don't menstruate).

Someone in some IT call center has an Indian accent, therefore brown people are from other countries and can't possibly have been born in America.

Even though the census tells us 4 million US citizens have South Asian ancestry, every person you come across with South Asian ancestry is one of the 40,000 H-1bs from South Asia, and not one of the 99% who are US citizens. Don't let our American accents and passports fool you.

Angry white males who run over protestors with their cars are just hard workers trying to get home to feed their kids but these damn lazy worthless liberals keep getting in the way.

If someone is shot by the cops or arrested and throw in prison, they obviously did something wrong and deserved it. Just obey the law and you won't be shot.

[Major Nikon]

18. Guns dont kill people; people kill people.

[Le Gaucher]

23. But they find it much harder to do without the 🔫

[Major Nikon]

24. The same brilliant argument can be applied to nuclear weapons

[Le Gaucher]

25. Guns have killed more people than nuclear weapons have.

And both should be banned.

Cops should not have guns either. Give them batons like british cops

[Major Nikon]

27. Guns dont kill people;...

People have killed more people than guns have.

The obvious solution is to ban people. Nuclear weapons can help with this.

[IronLionZion]

33. Bullets kill people

guns only get them going really fast. So it's not the gun's fault you loony liberal.

[Major Nikon]

36. Bullets don't kill either, sucking chest wounds do

If people didn't have guns, they would just use lawn darts and pinking shears.

[Le Gaucher]

26. Second ammendment should be shat/ pissed upon.

All guns should be confiscated and recyleds into door knobs .. Because the the Lord knows we all need door knobs.

[Major Nikon]

37. Why are you so afraid of guns?

[IronLionZion]

44. An armed society is a polite society

Just like Somalia and Afghanistan. Everyone has guns, loves God, hates gays, and nobody is mean to each other over there.

Billy Bob with his guns will defend us against tyranny and defeat our own military with their drones and missiles and satellites should they ever turn against us.

[Major Nikon]

46. Suitcase nukes for everyone!

[Freddie]

42. Guns don't kill people, but they sure help

Saw this on a bumper sticker years ago. They probably removed it for fear of vandalism.

[lpbk2713]

19. This one?

[treestar]

28. The Republicans freed the slaves and

the Democrats were the slaveholders (so apparently today the Democrats are still the racists)

The Democrats were the racists in the 60s (so that's why more black people support them now).

Protestors are people who don't have jobs. Right wingers never protest since they have to go to work.

[mreilly]

51. Yup, exactly what I was going to say...

... which is why I keep gleefully reminding them: "How many KKK and white supremacists and Nazis voted for Hillary? Can you name a single one? I'll be waiting."

Waiting forever, that is.

[HughBeaumont]

61. You know what's funny about that last one?

Both groups are at the Inauguration, for instance.

The one I hear a lot from the Teahad during these gatherings is "GET A JOB YOU BUMS!"

I respond back "YOU'RE IN THE EXACT SAME PLACE AND TIME I'M IN, ASSHOLE! What's YOUR excuse??"

[Podkayne K]

30. How about

I didn't vote for Trump. I:
Voted for Stein
Voted for Johnson
I didn't vote

[mcar]

39. "My kids are grown. Why should I have to pay for public schools?"

That one always makes me

[Major Nikon]

45. I don't use the library, so the government should pay for my books

[marylandblue]

73. My public school teacher gave me the answer to that

Would you rather those kids stand in front of your house with no money, no job and nothing to do?

[Freddie]

43. "You libtards have time to comment because you don't work"

This one pisses me off more than any other. All my friends are liberal, we ALL work and don't expect "government handouts".

[NurseJackie]

48. Here's one: "I voted for Stein because Hillary had a lock on my state."

[mcar]

74. Good one!

[Goodheart]

49. If you're an atheist and use our money that states "In God We Trust"

then you're a hypocrite.

[RobinA]

50. Huuuummm...

He's a successful business man, he can certainly run the country.

He's rich, so he doesn't need money from lobbyists, he will do what is right.

*I* grew up with abusive parents and managed to turn out right.

My company did away with our pensions 20 years ago, so why should ______ have pensions?

[Phoenix61]

63. I worked for CPS as an investigator

A lot of the parents would tell me their parents beat them and they turned out all right. I'd tell them, well, I talked to your children at school and I'm here now asking you questions you have to answer, how well is it working for you now? Always made them pause.

[no_hypocrisy]

52. The Stupid People's Argument Playbook:

Logical Fallacies.

Instead of effectively proving their premises to be valid, they rely on distractions from the argument, logical fallacies.

Look at this site and recognize some of the more popular techniques to obfuscate the fact that they can't prove what they're saying is true:

https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/eng207-td/Logic%20and%20Analysis/most_common_logical_fallacies.htm

[BarbaRosa]

55. I'm pro-life,

bomb them back to the stone age.

[HughBeaumont]

59. More . . . .

"We didn't necessarily vote FOR Trump. We voted to shake things up; drain the swamp."

"Tax cuts are great for the economy and actually increase government revenue."

When a headline starts off with "Dinesh D'Souza/Pastor/Trump Appointee: "

"What other countries have you lived in, sir, that you can attest that America isn't that great?"

"First Trump; Then OUR Turn!"

[LanternWaste]

66. "They're only words... they have no power over you unless you let them."

"They're only words... they have no power over you unless you let them."

Many, many mean-spirited people use that particular bit of idiocy to better rationalize their own ugly behavior, and pretend ignorance of what "mere" words have done to humans throughout our history...

[Buzz cook]

67. If we remove statues of Robert E Lee

Will we then remove statues of Washington?

Banning Muslims is about our security.

"I have the best words"

[VOX]

69. "Nazis were liberal"; "MLK was a Republican"; "the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy"...

Anything about "social justice warriors" sticks in my craw as well.

"John F. Kennedy was a conservative." Which obviously is why he once stated, "I'm proud to say I am a liberal."

"A rising tide floats all boats." Bullshit.

"Ronald Reagan won the Cold War." Again, bullshit. The USSR went broke.