How to argue with Trump supporters?

[kentuck]

Last edited Thu Aug 24, 2017, 12:06 PM - Edit history (2)

First of all, don't tell them that he is crazy or unstable. They don't care.

Don't tell them that he may start a war that might kill a million people. They don't care.

Don't tell them that he is immoral and may have worked with the Russians to mess with our elections. They don't care.

Don't tell them that he paid no taxes for 20 years. They don't give a crap about that.

Tell them that the President called the White House a "dump" and there were 8 witnesses on the golf course that heard him say it. They care about that.

Tell them that he doesn't bow his head or close his eyes to pray. They care about things like that.

Tell them that Donald Trump is lying to them about the "wall". He is using them.

Tell them that 10 sailors died in a terrible accident and he never mentioned them in any of his speeches. They care about things like that.

The point is that if you want to get Trumpsters to analyze their votes for Donald Trump, then you have to tell them something that they care about. Otherwise, they do not listen.

[Moostache]

1. Fuck them all....I have no use for people who excuse those who coddle Nazis.

They should all hang their heads in shame and be forced to LIE to their posterity about who they actually voted for in 2016.

Americans had a choice...a well-qualified, serious-minded, life-long civil servant and brilliant woman or a carnival-barking, bigoted, misogynistic moron and life-long con-man.

If someone could not determine that such a choice was a clear-cut moral referendum on what they TRULY value and believe, then they are too stupid to have the franchise in the first place.

I will let those who have more patience than I continue to reach out to these 'people'...they are dead to me and not worth the oxygen it takes to speak to them in the first place.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

10. Hear, hear

[kentuck]

37. I read these people on Facebook....

...and most of them laugh off the "coddle Nazis" argument. They say that the left believes that everyone right of Maxine Waters is a Nazi.

[mgardener]

54. Naa...

We just think that they are ignorant, deplorable republicans.
Ignorant for those duped by the real fake news, deplorable for those who knew better and voted for him anyway.

[Dulcinea]

43. Don't waste your time.

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” --Mark Twain

[Roy Rolling]

45. You can't "fuck them all"

They are fucking you. Politics is the process of getting agreement, not defeating someone in a debate. Like some martial arts, use their own moves and momentum against them.

[Moostache]

83. You have not been paying attention to politics since about 1984 have you?

There is NO SUCH THING as a "middle" or "consensus" or even "compromise"....

I am well-aware of the evil of the GOP, but here's the thing, they stole a seat on the SCOTUS, they managed to elect a complete imbecile as POTUS, he has installed every manner of deplorable fool into his cabinet and the country is falling into ruin and despair daily as Cheetolini and the misfits fiddle and burn.

There is NO AGREEMENT coming with these people. Not some, not a little, definitely not half-way. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. They must be kneecapped like a Democratic-controlled congress with 60 senate votes trying to pass health care legislation NOT written by the Heritage Foundation and introduced by Mitt Romney.

[sprinkleeninow]

89. Hay Moo, Ima with you! 👍🙂

[raven mad]

95. +1 MILLION!

[Eyeball_Kid]

2. When Trumpy is indicted and the House gets serious about impeachment,

his Fanboys still won't care. They'll call it a fake inquiry, just as Trumpy will call it fake.

When/if Trumpy resigns, he'll tell his Fanboys that he was railroaded by liberals, that he's the victim.

When/if Trumpy gets impeached and convicted, he'll tell his Fanboys that the charges were trumped up and that Congress was always out to get him. He'll add that Congress, led by liberals, went over the top and persecuted the most intelligent, active, and principled president in US history. He'll say that it's Congress that's incurably corrupt. Further, he'll activate his violent white supremacists of all stripes to fight against the "establishment", by using Second Amendment solutions.

[Dale Neiburg]

7. One saving feature:

I don't think he'll be allowed to tweet from the big house.

[Hortensis]

3. Tell them he reminds you strongly of those dogs that run away

to a safe place and then start barking ferociously. But only to a stranger in passing, because it's as offensive as it is spot-on. "Come on out, Spot, it's okay, he's gone now."

For those I have to meet again, mostly just courteous silence and noncommittal glance, if pushed an "I understand many feel that way, although of course I am a liberal, and a Democrat." Believe me, though, NO one's asking me to enlarge on my views these days.

[Wounded Bear]

4. I disagree...

I don't think his supporters give a rat's ass about any of that stuff. Ergo, you might as well try to register your refrigerator to vote Dem. Trumplodytes don't care.

[Hortensis]

16. Lol. That Russian woman who writes about living in an authoritarian

society says what they hate most of all is learning they've backed a loser. And that is the word she used. They want a strong, aggressive man who'll lead them to victory over all the "others" out to defeat them. And issues are mostly irrelevant, cover at most for what they need.

But a good half or more on the right are not hard-core base and have more possibilities than just the attack dog role they've been living. I actually think I'd have more success registering our refrigerator as a Democrat (she does reside at this address, after all--sneaking her into the polling booth would be the tricky part) than even one of them, but just maybe a few percent might become too disheartened by their depraved party to vote at all...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

81. Yep all that other stuff is a cudgel to beat Democrats when they can use it.

When it comes down to it, all that matters is "ha ha suck it libtards you lost and we won ha ha ha"

[kentuck]

5. He doesn't go to church and he speaks ill of America.

They listen to things like that.

[Wounded Bear]

18. He does that all the time, they don't care...

[sprinkleeninow]

86. They do not care!

Comprised of industrial strength delusion and inhabiting la-la land.

They're all around us. Some have been not surprisingly quiet lately.

They need to 'come to the end of themselves' as the Scriptures, THAT THEY IGNORE AND/OR TWIST, speak.

They need to have a still, personal 'conversion' that I did not/will not be responsible for.

One added thing, not thread related. We may be witnessing Harvey's devastation on the coast of Texas in a day or two and the fiasco-in-charge is still harping on about that FRICKEN WALL!

God Almighty, resolve this and quickly!

-sprink 💗?🗽

[mainstreetonce]

6. They don't care

that he said there are very fine people on both sides.

How do you counteract that one?

[kentuck]

9. That's one they don't care about.

It is not a winning political issue, sadly and unfortunately.

If you want to win the next election, focus on the issues that get their attention. They already know he is a sleazy, racist, immoral, insane asshole. They don't care about that.

[BigmanPigman]

8. We are encouraged by various Resistance groups to engage them in polite, respectful conversation to

possibly help them see the real facts, etc. However it depends on which type of supporter you are speaking with. The heavy duty base will never believe anything (or at least admit to it) so it is a waste of time. A regular GOP idiot may be willing to discuss the issues rationally but it is an uphill battle.

I prefer to not talk to them at all and not waste any of my time and energy.

[kentuck]

11. They believe nothing from the mainstream media.

They don't operate on facts. They operate on emotion.

[gordianot]

12. A 2X4 across the bridge of the nose would be most satisfying.

That would be a waste of a good 2X4 when walking away is so much easier.

[kentuck]

13. That might work!

[Turbineguy]

14. Let Trump do it.

He's convinced many that they fucked up already.

[EffieBlack]

15. I have absolutely no interest in communicating with them - nor, I'm sure, they with me

Anyone who is still backing that man after Charlottesville is not worth my time or effort. They're idiots or racists or, more likely, both.

Leave them where they are.

[HopeAgain]

17. The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt...

explains how we want to believe that human decision making is made by the logical brain, when in fact it is more frequently governed by the intuitive/emotional brain. The rational part of the mind tries to follow up with justifications to support the emotionally driven decisions. Conservatives tend to have even less capacity to control emotional decisions than do progressives.

Thus any hope of changing them would require a triggering of the emotions of these individuals jarring enough to break through the intricate web of rationalizations and justifications that support the emotional decisions that are really driven by fear and self-interest. That is tough to do once they are entrenched.

One thing is clear, they will not let go of their justifications as long as they continue to feel the emotions they are protecting. So how does one become less bigoted? He/she has to lose that fear somehow. Finding a way to overcome that fear is not easy, because (ironically) the justifications designed to alleviate the fear tend to crystallize the fear into place.

I don't think just demonizing people is helpful either. It just further drives the emotional/intuitive mind into more more stark decisions and then Brietbart and Faux News are happy to provide the rationalizations to support it.

[kentuck]

32. Good post!

I'm sure their votes against Hillary and for President Tweeter were mostly from emotions.

Also, I think the "white nationalist" and "monuments" discussions is a winner for their Party because it will move their emotions moreso than progressives, although we may think it is an over-whelming winner for us.

[ecstatic]

19. Do you have 1st hand experience with this?

I find it hard to believe that they care about anything mentioned on that list. Interesting.

[struggle4progress]

20. Nod. Smile. Back away towards the door, nodding and smiling

[sprinkleeninow]

88. Do that, then RUNNED AVAY!

My dear maternal grandfather (Czechoslovak) spoke pretty good English, but would put an ethnic flavor on some things he'd say.

After my grandmother reposed, my step-dad employed grandfather for awhile in his kitchen/bath remodel business, minding the store when my dad went on appointments. He potzed around taking note of everything. One day my dad couldn't find something he needed and my grandfather proudly announced he'd put it in 'miscellaneum'! 😄

-sprink 💗?🗽

[Funtatlaguy]

21. Religion, religion, religion.

He does not go to church.
He has not read the Bible. (2 Corinthians)
He has admitted to committing adultery on many occasions.
He has settled many sexual assault cases.

[progressoid]

24. I politely mentioned that to a couple Trump supporters in my family who are very religious.

They ignored it and voted for him anyway.

[sprinkleeninow]

90. They don't care! They're indoctrinated in the Cult of Drumpf.

Someone said somewhere it's like they're in a cult (mentality).

They also do not want to BE WRONG about their choice of voting for the fraudulent.

"Go down with your trumptanic."

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

96. People need to know that the Fundie leadership knew Trump was not Christian and was

immoral in countless ways. It doesn't matter to them. They believe that this is another example of God sending them an unGodly person to do his work. What the logic is behind this--why God wouldn't use a Godly person--I don't know, but they do believe it.

They think he will help them begin to institute their agenda, then they will take over.

[Willie Pep]

22. A lot of Trump supporters are unreachable.

However, some of them are, particularly those who might have voted for Obama but voted for Trump or were non-voters who voted for Trump because they thought he was anti-establishment.

Talk to Trump supporters about his actual policies and how they aren't good for the people he supposedly cares about. For example Dean Baker has a recent blog post on how Trump's policies on mountaintop mining are actually bad for coal miners and their communities.

http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/news-for-donald-trump-and-washington-post-friends-of-coal-companies-are-not-necessarily-friends-of-coal-miners

I agree that calling Trump crazy, racist, sexist and in bed with the Russians won't work because a lot of Trump voters don't care about those issues. But many do care about economic issues and that is where Trump is potentially weak since he is governing more like an establishment Republican than I think some of his supporters thought he would.

[WinkyDink]

23. Is this a serious topic? No, really. I find the very premise incomprehensible, as in: WHY THE HELL

SHOULD ANYONE HERE CARE TO "COMMUNICATE WITH" A SUB-HUMAN SPECIES KNOWN AS A "TRUMP SUPPORTER"?!

[kentuck]

26. Because they beat your ass in the last election?

You might need a different strategy in debating your points?

[WinkyDink]

28. Bwahaha! Oh, and REVEALING PRONOUN USAGE. Thank you for that "your" and not "our."

[kentuck]

30. Thanks for the CAPS!

[gratuitous]

25. I think you have to wait until they're ready to listen

And that time will come when misfortune lands on their pointy little heads as a direct result of Trump's fecklessness. Otherwise, they're just happy that Trump's in the White House, which makes them happy for some demented reason (they feel like winners or something), and the libtards are unhappy. That's all that matters. Until disaster strikes them.

[kentuck]

27. It is true that if it makes the libtards unhappy, then it makes them happy.

If there is a misfortune that hits us all, including them, it may change the way they think.

[kentuck]

29. Edited the title of the post:

More appropriate than "communicate", perhaps?

[MrScorpio]

31. I don't talk to Trump voters

It's a waste of my time.

[WinkyDink]

33. YOU "argue." I'm with HIM:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029505473

[kentuck]

35. I recommended that post!

But, it doesn't reach "them". It is mostly preaching to the choir, in my opinion.

I'm sure they see the same flaws in Trump that we see, but they are not enough for them to vote against him. They need more.

I think we have a very strong argument but it is not one that connects with these people. I say "people" charitably.

[Mike Nelson]

34. Some will never...

...be reached. If Trump ends up in prison, they will think he was framed by Obama and Hillary. But there are some who don't pay much attention to politics and will respond to those points...

...for example, the taxes. They hate taxes and think it's great to avoid paying... but if you ask, "Is it okay for Trump to pay less taxes than you?" Also, remind people that most US tax money goes to the military - so not paying dos not "support the troops."

[kentuck]

36. I think a very salient issue that would connect with Trump supporters at this moment...

...is the fact that he has not mentioned the 10 sailors that were killed in the collision near Singapore.

Democrats seem to always be a dollar short and debating the wrong issue.

[Mike Nelson]

56. True...

...now that there are pictures, Dems should post them on social media and memorialize them (as Trump does not)... I'm not the leader of the Democratic Party - and I think the leadership is great - but would up the patriotism.

[kentuck]

38. Also, another argument that may be more effective with Trump supporters.

Trump escaped the Vietnam War by claiming 4 deferments, mostly from "bone spurs" in the feet. And there is no record of any of his family ever serving in the US military in any capacity.

[rufus dog]

40. How did comparing records on Viet Nam work our for Kerry

Seriously, you state they work on emotion, then argue for using logic.

Give it up, and give up trying to reason with any tRump supporter.

[kentuck]

42. It was not Kerry's record in Vietnam...

...it was the emotional account of him throwing his medals over the fence and that was more important to them.

[rufus dog]

49. and they were able to be manipulated

Into thinking that shooting an enemy with a rocket launcher was a cowardly act, that he only went to Vietnam to pad his resume and that they guy who went AWOL didn't.

[rufus dog]

39. You simply don't engage them

They have no core, none. So any attempt to engage them in any meaningful discussion is fruitless. They will always to be able to get support for their beliefs, online, small group at church, Faux News.

There is no reason to even attempt to engage them in dialogue at this point, there is no end to the depth of their ignorance, and there is only one person who can pull them out, themselves.

Ignore them, look at them in disgust, some will figure it out, most won't.

[kentuck]

41. You may be right?

But if we cannot engage them in person, why would we even discuss them here?

I think they operate mostly on emotion and important issues are not that important to them. We have to address them from an emotional level.

[rufus dog]

46. they operate on an emotional reaction to fear

Fear of others

Fear that there may not be an after life and this is the one chance for them

Fear that they are just a small part of a large universe.

So unless you can get them to change basic core beliefs, you aren't going to get them to eliminate emotional reactions to the queues from those who have figured out how to manipulate based upon fear.

[kentuck]

47. If you can keep them away from the voting booth.

You have succeeded.

[kentuck]

44. Another argument:

Trump is fat and out of shape. He is liable to fall down the steps of AF1...

I'm not fat-shaming... I'm just giving points to argue.

[ollie10]

52. Point that out and they will just point to "liberals" who are out of shape.....

They love to fat shame Michelle Obama.....

But they don't seem to care about Trump's figure.....

go figure.....

[kentuck]

55. And you point out...

...that those "liberals" are not sitting in the White House. Big difference.

[ollie10]

76. It won't make any difference to them

They are always blaming everything on Obama or Clinton.

From their point of view, Trump's shit does not stink

[ollie10]

48. you tell them he golfs too much.....

....they will tell you Obama did.

If you point out that Trump golfs more than Obama did, they will just call you a name.

[kentuck]

50. Or you remind them that he drives his cart upon the greens...

...and that, while in Europe, he could not keep up with the other leaders, and he was the only one that had to ride in a golf cart to get around.

[ollie10]

74. They will then resort to their wild card.....

...accuse you of spreading "fake news"

[Doug the Dem]

51. Don't

As others have stated above, it's a complete waste of time.

[JHan]

53. I don't. Waste of energy. They'll have to figure it out on their own.

[kentuck]

58. That's your decision.

They have the state-run media to help them decide.

[JHan]

71. I suppose..Infowars and Faux News kind of qualify

[ollie10]

57. It is a cult

Not all Trump supporters are cultists.

But some are.

[kentuck]

59. The rally in Phoenix looked like a cult of personality.

That is the base of the Republican Party.

[Motley13]

60. Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you

with experience.”

― Mark Twain

[kentuck]

62. Or as someone said:

[Cryptoad]

64. yes Sirree,,,,

use to know a good quote something about u can never logically argue with a person who did not come to their conclusion using reason..

same same

[Orrex]

61. There is no arguing with a Trump chump

I applaud your willingness to try, but when I have made the attempt as you describe, they invariably dismiss it. Invariably.

Tell them that the President called the White House a "dump" and there were 8 witnesses on the golf course that heard him say it. They care about that.

The fake news quoted him out of context. And whatabout all of Obama's Apology Tour?

Tell them that he doesn't bow his head or close his eyes to pray. They care about things like that.

We all worship in our own personal ways. Except Muslims like Barry HUSSEIN Obummer, who is inherently evil.

Tell them that Donald Trump is lying to them about the "wall". He is using them.

Construction would already be underway if not for obstructionist Democrats.

Tell them that 10 sailors died in a terrible accident and he never mentioned them in any of his speeches. They care about things like that.

What could he say? Anything he says will be twisted out of context by the fake news. Trump is a man of deep feeling and obviously cares about our military personnel.

Aside from that last one, which I admit is speculation, the others are more or less exactly what has happened when I've dealt with Trump's idiot racist fuckhead cultists.

They do not respond to evidence, they are impervious to reason, and they are in denial about direct personal hardship inflicted upon them by Trump. I have no idea what will help them to change their thinking, and so far I've seen nothing that can reliably be claimed to work.

[kentuck]

65. Daniel Patrick Moynihan:

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

[Orrex]

70. Sadly very true (nt)

[tymorial]

63. I find it useless to argue with people who accept emotionalism, supposition

And preconceived notions over reason. When presented with fact and evidence they often engage in denialism and become further entrenched. Rather than examine all information to reform their opinions they embrace their original point of view. Humility is not a character trait of these individuals. Something must hit them close to home in order to shift then from their world view.

[kentuck]

67. It was disturbing to hear someone wishing for McCain to die...

during the Phoenix Nuremburg rally.

[niyad]

66. DON'T

[niyad]

68. "are you a sexual predator as well? why else would you vote for one?"

[Glimmer of Hope]

69. Thanks for suggestions. We need to figure this out if we want to change.

Every day my uncle will post some ridiculous or racist meme along with some Buddhist Zen quote (it is odd). I think I am going to start responding like this: "Oh no UncleXX, this is so racist! I know your are not a racist so why would you post this? I hope you delete this!"

[azureblue]

72. or tell them---

Trump has a decades long record of pulling cons and swindling people out of money. Right now, he faces over 3000 suits for non payment. He hires people and doesn't pay them then tells them to take it to court, knowing he will grind them down. Tell them Trump has ruined many small businesses with this tactic, and everybody in NYC and Atlantic City will not do business with Trump. He has gone through 5 bankruptcies where he has made money and left his investors broke, and US banks refusing to loan him money. This has been a matter of public record since the 80s. Yet you vote for and support a con man? Trump has a word for you and that is "rube". You got conned and you think the man who conned you will save you. I got a word for you and that is "fool."

[Va Lefty]

73. No point engaging them

Try slamming your head into a brick wall. You'll have more success and headache won't be as bad.

[muntrv]

75. Charles Pierce said it best.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a57164/trump-arizona-speech/

[Proud Liberal Dem]

77. Don't argue with them in the first place

You'll have more energy and peace of mind. Just.......talk about the weather or something. You can maybe engage with them if their bubble bursts and they start questioning Trump/GOP and start helping them see the light.

[sprinkleeninow]

93. "Start uppa the bubble machine!" 😄 n/t

[Fluke a Snooker]

78. Get in their face and shame them

President Obama had sage advice in how to deal with these scumbags who would destroy humanity. GET IN THEIR FACE!!

Get in their face in the store.
Get in their face in the workplace.
Get in their face in public.
Get in their face on Facebook.
Get in their face on Twitter.
Get in their face at PTA meetings.
Get in their face at their campaign headquarters.

Just engage them... angrily, forcefully, and intellectually. And DON'T BACK DOWN!

They will ultimately crack. I do this at least five times a day. It works!

[grantcart]

79. I find your general premise strange.

These are people who have absorbed a grown man boasting about peeking on girls in changing rooms while they changed into bikinis, boasted about grabbing women by the genitalia and were OK with him mot knowing where the President was born.

Whay makes you think they ate capable of rational discussion?

I talk with lots of Republicans but none of them are Trump 'supporters'.

[broadcaster90210]

80. Don't.

No point and a waste of time.

[Permanut]

82. I've found that it's useless to engage them in discussion..

But I'm confronted by an acolyte of the Cult of the Velveeta Coprolite with some of their cult drivel, I find the greatest satisfaction in putting down their bigly perfect leader. When I hear how wonderful he is, I just state that as a veteran, I won't vote for him or anyone else who ridicules a Gold Star family. No argument, no attempt to persuade, just a statement and I'm done.

[fantase56]

84. they're like cockroaches....

you can't reason with them or win them over. you can drive them back for a while, but you can't get rid of them.

[underpants]

85. Take the long view - show them the hand and dismiss them

"Talking to you about politics and governing is like talking to a German about baseball". You can use "Russian" too.

[Mountain Mule]

87. The members of Cult 45 aren't worth wasting time on

They're not into the subtleties. They ignore nuance. They have drunk the kool aid/covfefe and are beyond all reason. Ever try to argue with a fundamentalist that the world wasn't created in 6 days or that you question the coming of the "rapture"? Forget it. We're better off spending time on encouraging unity within our own party and reaching out to Independents. The racists and misogynists who make up the Cult get their information from Breitbart and InfoWars. They can't wait for a second Civil War, so they have an excuse to shoot down their fellow citizens in the streets. Right now Twitler's national approval rating stands at 35% according to Gallup. Let him continue to hang himself while we work on getting out the vote among the other 65% of voters in this country. The midterms are coming. Screw the Cult.

[Skidmore]

91. This my stand today.

Last edited Thu Aug 24, 2017, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Join in if you wish.

Link to tweet

Oh, no. S/he blocked me after whining about liberals love for evil Islamist terrorists and Dems being funded by that Nazi Soros guy who wants to establish Nazi govt here. This was the tipping point.

Link to tweet

[oberliner]

92. They don't care about those other things either

1. Calling the WH a "dump" - that's just BS made up by fake news. Or he just made some offhanded comment. He loves the WH.

2. Ditto praying. That is either fake news. Or the religious types will say "sometimes the Lord sends imperfect messengers..."

3. They will say this is a LW lie and that he is already building the wall. The only thing standing in its way is Congress.

4. They will say he obviously cares about them and there was a WH statement.

None of those arguments will make any impact on Trump supporters.

[kairos12]

94. Their shit bubble is impervious. Nothing penetrates their shield of crap. I appreciate what you

are saying, but we all have a finite amount of time on earth and I can't waste it talking to them.