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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPierce: Hillary Clinton's Side of the Story Matters, Too
Another great one!
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a57168/hillary-clinton-trump-debate/
I can't tell you how thrilled I am that the various institutions my profession that went around the bend on the Clintons during the 1990s now have a new book from Hillary Rodham Clinton to chew over. Maureen Dowd must be blowing the dust off her well-thumbed volume of Cheap Shots For Dummies. Her newspaper, The New York Times, which has been deranged on the subject of these uppity Arkansans for 25 years now, can dispatch its legions again to justify how putting a bustling bouquet of stories on James Comey's 11th hour letter about E-MAIIIIIIIILLLLLZZZZ! on the front page was perfectly reasonable news judgment. (There was a lot of that on the electric Twitter machine over the past few days.) Chris Cillizza is going to need to buy a new abacus to total up everything he's going to have to say and write about this latest appearance of somebody he already has dismissed. Oh, the kids are going to have fun playing down at the old familiar mudhole again...
I'd have paid cash money to see her tell the creep to back up. (It might have saved the entire country the trouble of having to say it right now.) The debate in question was the second one, the one that they held at Washington University in St. Louis, and it was a Trump-arranged shitshow from the minute it began. This was the debate where the Trump people arranged a press conference for four women who'd accused Bill Clinton of sexual harassment (and worse) at one time or another, and then sat them in the the hall. (Why the organizers allowed this remains a mystery.) So this was the situation when, not long into the debate, HRC found her opponent looming behind her like Nosferatu with a combover. I can assure you that every female journalist sitting in my immediate area expressed some form of visceral discomfort at the scene. (In the hall, morons, of course, got a kick out of it.) That fundamental creepiness hangs on the president* like a second head...
Paul Waldman has the right of it here. No politician in my lifetime has faced so many constant demands that he or she apologize simply for being there. HRC ran a very average campaign. You know who ran a bad campaign? Michael Dukakis in 1988, and so did Richard Nixon in 1960. More to the point, in 1972, George McGovern ran a bad general election campaign, but you'd have to be a complete ignoramus not to place considerable importance while making that judgment on the fact that McGovern was being ratfcked from inside the West Wing of the White House.
HRC ran a campaign that was good enough to get three million more votes than her opponent. That is not a "bad" campaign. It was a decent, if flawed, campaign that had more than its share of the bumps in the road customary to such enterprises. However, just as you'd have to be stupid not to mention prominently the role of, say, Gordon Liddy in the defeat of McGovern, you simply have to give pride of place in what went wrong last November to the bizarre involvement of the FBI's New York office, the flea-on-a-griddle performance of James Comey, the meddling of Russian cyberwarriors, and, yes, the persistent grudge that has warped the elite political media's approach to the Clintons right from the Times's misbegotten first Whitewater story.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)"the creep to back up," but we all know what would have followed had she done so. "Shrill, impolite, disruptive" would have been the milder criticisms. Not about Dump, but about Hillary. She was a woman who dared run for president. And as a woman, she was supposed to put up and shut up when a large, ugly man is practically crawling up her back.
mcar
(42,334 posts)She has never been treated fairly.
monmouth4
(9,708 posts)It would make him crazier than usual.
Warpy
(111,267 posts)which means that after she's appointed to another high government post (and she should be), she'll do it loud and clear to any other "alpha" male creeper who tries it on her.
I know we all noticed it during the debates. I was screaming at the bloated sack of shit to back the fuck off!
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-41028024/hillary-clinton-my-skin-crawled-in-trump-debate
Me.
(35,454 posts)+1
MaryLouisaWillis
(44 posts)More than winning the popular vote, she probably won the electoral vote if you think, like I do that machines in at least four states had to have been tampered with. In Fl after the early voting it was statistically impossible for Trump to win unless he between 60 and 70 % of the vote on election day and FL is not that Red, maybe 51% red. In addition, if I remember correctly Hillary was ahead in WI, MI and PA. And ahead by pretty healthy margins. Then trump won each of those states by either 1% or just less than 1%. That meant there would be no recount in any state. That seems very implausible to me.
So what is the media narrative? "Nobody told Hillary not to go to WI. She ran a lousy campaign. She was a terrible candidate". No she ran a great campaign. She is the first woman to be elected IMO to the presidency and she did it while fighting the MSM, the right, and the far left. And if I am right she got more votes than any candidate in history.
Turn CO Blue
(4,221 posts)Dead.
erronis
(15,277 posts)Sorry - the mind just does free associations in the evening....
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)In her book she talks about trying to decide on the fly whether to keep her cool even though she was terribly uncomfortable or to turn around and tell the creep to back off.
My absolute unwavering position on the incident is that she shouldn't have ever had to make that decision. It was the moderator who totally fucked up! Women are put in this position all the time! If they try and keep their cool they are seen weak and passive, if they tell the creep to back off, they are a bitch.
Why in the hell didn't the moderator simply say, "Mr. Trump, you need to stay at your podium while Secretary Clinton is speaking." End of issue.
leftstreet
(36,108 posts)Watching that clip I wondered WHY someone didn't tell Trump to stay the fuck in his place
Instead everyone will spend the Media 15 Minutes discussing what Hillary should/shouldn't have done about it
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)I kept waiting for the moderator to say something..and waiting...and waiting... I've never seen a male debater have someone invade their space that blatantly.
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)mcar
(42,334 posts)Hekate
(90,704 posts)...her statement that Trump's behavior made her skin crawl. There are days when that man can be such an ass. Never in HIS life has he experienced stalking by a sexual predator, bigger, stronger, boastful, and contemptuous of his prey -- and therefore strong women are not to be believed when they report their own experience.
unblock
(52,243 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)despite Gore having 500,000 more votes.
But when Hillary lost despite a lead 6 times as great, she gets blamed for not playing the rigged system well enough.
ismnotwasm
(41,984 posts)All the bullshit that woman had to tolerate made legitimate analysis and criticism difficult from the sheer amount of assorted fake left/alt-right and just plain right fuckery that needed to be sorted through. It was bloody ridiculous,is what it was.
Paladin
(28,262 posts)Bonus points for the advance trashing of Maureen Dowd and Chris Cillizza, "journalists" who aren't fit to be within a mile of Hillary Clinton, much less offer up any snide trashing of her or her campaign.
Hekate
(90,704 posts)MrPurple
(985 posts)She showed that it didn't rattle her and went on articulately addressing the issues like he wasn't there. Trump looked insane pacing around the stage, trying to invade her space, constantly sniffing. Reasonable people could plainly see that. I don't think that Hillary pausing and telling Trump to back off would have swayed any Trump voters. Maybe she could have paused for a second and shot him an icy or bemused WTF is wrong with you glare, but actually interrupting the flow of what she was talking about to mention his position on the stage would have been counterproductive.
Just about the only thing George Bush ever handled well was in the 2000 debate when Al Gore tried walking into his space while he was talking and Bush did a humorous take of pausing and looking at him and then continuing. You could say that Al Gore lost some style points in his debates in 2000, but whatever flaws Hillary's campaign might have had, I thought she really nailed the debates with Trump.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)I think there is a stubborn sexist streak in this country that makes everyone who hated their mothers see women in power as their mother. People do not project on men the same way, because they run across many men in power in their lives. But, unless you grew up in the Irish-American matriarchy where all women had power, your mother was likely the only woman you saw who seemed powerful as a young child.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I'm sick to fucking death of the Hillary bashing. All of it involves an expressed or implicit contempt for her supporters. They may enjoy shitting all over us, but I will not forget. There will be consequences, to the best I can exact them.
unblock
(52,243 posts)would have said she ran a bad campaign, even if she had squeaked out an electoral victory.
they would have said she was ahead virtually the entire time.
they would have said she won all the debates.
they would have said she had the better convention.
they would have said that she ran a disciplined campaign and avoided major gaffes.
and they would have said that donnie's campaign was terrible and he paid a political price for alienating millions of americans.
all the talk about hillary running a lousy campaign has a very heavy dose of results-mongering.