Trump is Done

[jalan48]

Watching CNN tonight for the first time in several months ( i rarely watch TV news shows) i was struck by how much more aggressive they are in going after Trump. James Clapper basically said Trump is a threat to the country, and stated his concern about Trump's access to the nuclear code. They have taken the gloves off, it reminds me of when Nixon was close to the end. I may be wrong but something is definitely up.

[Angry Dragon]

1. GUILTY

[AJT]

2. Gosh, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard "Trump's done"

I'd be rich!.......rich I'm telling you!
The only way it is over for 45 is if he is impeached, and the GOP isn't going to do that, or he resigns.

[jalan48]

3. LOL I know what you mean. Maybe it's because I haven't watched cable news in months.

I think it will be a forced resignation.

[AJT]

5. Maybe the threat of releasing the pee pee tapes if he doesn't resign would do it.

[Whiskeytide]

37. I don't think the pee pee tape scares him...

... he won't lose supporters because of something like that if they haven't already deserted him.

I suspect the real terror must be some audio with the tape. Maybe he makes fun of "stupid, loser Americans". Or reveals that he thinks he can sucker them with his carnival act. Or perhaps he expresses love and longing for Russian oligarch privilege and vodka flavored piss, and says he wants to turn America into Russia.

I just don't think they will be repulsed by hookers peeing on him.

[Wounded Bear]

40. No way...

the only thing that "scares" Trump is the release of his financials, tax returns, business dealings with Russians and criminals world wide.

Becoming President is his get out of jail card, and it's being shredded while he watches.

[ollie10]

51. Trump's supporters will cry foul....er....fake news

No matter how much proof....

[unblock]

8. He won't be impeached but may resign

Congressional republicans are way too political to shoot themselves in the foot like that.

They might be able to convince him to resign though, especially with a pardon deal.

[pat_k]

11. The DT juggernaut will roll on...

...because he is accomplishing precisely what the reactionary right and analstocrasy have been dreaming about for decades.

DT the man may appear to be in meltdown, with criticism coming from all side. DT the juggernaut rolls on.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9499252

[emulatorloo]

31. Yes the massive repeal and replacement of Obamacare was a major Trump accomplishment

[pat_k]

45. Perhaps you missed...

...the link.

Every firestorm DT sets alight with his verbal diarrhea (please forgive the mixed metaphors) distracts from the systematic destruction of hard won regulatory protections and vital programs designed to make inroads against social and economic injustice. His words, and the hate-groups his words embolden, cannot go unchallenged, but at the same time, we need to "keep our eye on the ball."

We are not "leaderless." The narrative that DT hasn't accomplished much of anything because there have been few legislative advances on "his agenda" serves DT (and the reactionary right and private interests he serves) VERY well.

His words are outrageous. They grab headlines -- rightfully so. But they also draw our attention away from the destruction being wrought by the people he's put in control of the levers of power within the executive branch (people who are at best incompetent, at worst the embodiment of evil).

The legislative branch is our voice; our will. The executive branch implements our will. The destruction of executive functions is the destruction of our power to make our will manifest. Even with the dysfunctional electoral system, we have been able to make our voices heard. DT has not been able to make legislative advances. But they are dismantling essential executive functions, and in so doing, they thwart our will and render us impotent to do anything about it. We need to focus on figuring out ways to stop or slow what they are doing. We can't do that if we are too distracted by the "Trump show."

DT's maladministration is accomplishing precisely what the radical, reactionary right, has been dreaming about for decades.
He is leading a juggernaut. DT the man may appear to be melting down and drawing disapproval from all sides, but the DT juggernaut rolls on.

Whether his bizarre behavior is intended to disrupt and distract, or is simply the result of his psychopathic narcissism, we need to recognize the effect: misdirection.

[Demsrule86]

59. We had a chance in November but voters blew it...what saddens me is some called themselves

progressive. They are no such thing.

[Demsrule86]

14. He will go one way or the other...resignation or the 25th...he has obstructed justice...and is

going to cost the GOP the House.

[greytdemocrat]

4. I would not bet on it.

[Egnever]

6. Picking a. Fight with McConnell will surely not help him

Makes Bush look like a brain surgeon...


Oh fuck does that even work anymore since Ben Carson?

[WhiteTara]

29. He's betting that McConnell won't do a thing

because he is also involved in the Russia affair and Trump has the goods on the Turtle.

[SweetieD]

7. Didn't watch cnn but I think Trump is done too. I think it was McConnell himself who was the

source for the nyt article.

Republicans are trying to find a way out of this Trump quagmire.

[jalan48]

10. It feels that way to me. It's no longer an act, Trump is unhinged and he will be forced out.

[unblock]

9. Most likely he is "done" only in the "lame duck" sense

He stays in office but congress largely ignores him, essentially reducing him to the official powers of office only.

Congress could pass what they want, Donnie can hardly veto generic republican legislation.

[C Moon]

12. I think we're going to be stuck with President Pence. Arrrrgh.

I don't think there's a chance in hell, that the GOP will go for impeaching Pence.
We'll need to focus on cleaning up our elections.

[delisen]

13. Democrats are so passive. We should be demanding that Clinton

be president.

Republicans count on us to say Pence is inevitable or that there is nothing we can do.

If the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would be demanding justice for their candidate, and would demand that Gorsuch resign from the Supreme Court.

If the Russian interference got the trump-pence ticket into office, there is no way Pence should become President of the US unless it is just long enough to name Clinton as VP and then resign.

The Democratic Party too often lapses into a spirit of resignation and hand-wringing. It is the unwillingness to think big and be unrelenting in the pursuit of justice that convinces others that we are too weak to be of help to them.

[Demsrule86]

15. There is no mechanism in our Republic to make a person president. Once the electoral college has

met...that is it. Impeachment, resignation and the 25th are the only constitutional methods to remove a president.

[ck4829]

17. It's unfortunate seeing as the electoral col members who voted for Trump sold out the US to Putin

Hopefully we can get Congress back and declare them to be enemies of the United States.

[delisen]

20. Not true. There is also deal-making. Political solutions.

My point is that Democrats are not even trying but instead accepting the "there is nothing we can do" argument-an argument which anti-democratic force are happy to reinforce.

I am not suggesting going against the Constitution. it is not necessary to break the rules-but the Constitution was not written to obstruct justice.

If there were evidence that a Democratic ticket got elected by joining forces with a hostile foreign power such as Russia, the Republican Party would be demanding that the Democrats resign and would propose a deal of the type I just outlined. They would express massive outrage, demand justice, and start counting their bargaining chips.

Democrats seem to be much more passive.

Spiro Agnew resigned his office because of a deal. There is nothing in the Constitution that states the Department of Justice had the right or the power to demand his resignation of the VP as part of a plea bargain. There is also nothing in the Constitution that states they could not.

Office-holders, including presidents, vps, speaker and majority leaders,senators, and representatives, facing the possibility of prosecution or even humiliation, make deals.

The Democratic Party has been on the wrong track since Election Day. Some wanted to downplay the Russian interference and define the issue narrowly. They jumped on a wrong analysis and convinced themselves that all they need to do is attract a few more votes of white guys who want jobs and that they had time to recruit and maybe start winning elections, especially if they downplay human rights. (Not talking so much about that in the wake of the Charlottesville).

Events keep proving them wrong.

They are still underestimating Russia and foreign influence.

[ck4829]

28. +1000

Putinist influence, voter suppression hurt us. Another thing that hurts us is this normalization of pathological 'thinking' and 'coping'... Trump speaks to the people who prefer unemployment or opiates over being employed by someone who is black and/or gay. Sooner we realize all three of these things are strangling our democracy, the sooner we can fight back against them.

[longship]

43. Please cite the Constitutional provision. Surely it's in there somewhere.

OOPSIE! Apparently not.

No redos, no Mulligans for US Presidential elections. Once the "electrical college" votes, it's a done deal.

I see no path for your scenario.

We've got impeachment and conviction, or the 25th amendment. That's it.

[delisen]

44. Not true. We have political solutions.

Show me the the line in the Constitution that that says a vice-president upon ascension to the presidency (but facing possible prosecution for crimes which led to his illegitimately becoming vp), can't make a deal to name a member of a different political party from his own or someone who does not belong to a political party, as his new vp and then resign, in order to lessen his punishment.

The 25th amendment specifies a method of succession, nothing more. It also does not address political parties. A president, to fill a vp vacancy may propose as vp anyone who has the basic qualifications to be president.

The Constitution does not address plea bargaining-yet it is a big part of our justice system.

Gerald Ford was named by the-almost-certain-to-be-impeached Nixon as vp. There is nothing in the Constitution to have prevented Nixon from naming a Democrat.

It was merely politically unlikely that that he would do so. Besides, Democrats in Congress were comfortable with Gerald Ford.

However Nixon was never suspected of colluding with a foreign power to attain the presidency-just covering up his administration's burglary of the opposite party's headquarters, shakedowns of corporations and various domestic crimes.

He was never suspected of making deals with the USSR or China to fix the election of 1972.

We are in new political territory here. we don't know how far into the Republican Party the Russians infiltrated. Pence?, Mc Connell?. Ryan?. Nunes?

We. may never know because the investigators may decide to focus on money laundering, for example.

But the Constitution does not prevent the scenario I proposed.

Politics may stand in the way. Our own political will for justice may stand in the way.

I personally like the concept of justice. I like to see wrongs righted on a large scale. I think one of the weaknesses of the Democratic Party has been lack of appropriate outrage in the face of the attacks upon our democracy.

We tend to think small, while the anti-democracy forces keep marching over us.

I think non-Democrats see us as weak because we don't demand justice.

How many times have I heard Democrats say that we have to work extra-hard to get out the vote because Republicans cheat.

Cheating the vote is outrageous, and the response should be outrage-not acceptance and "who can we run in 2020?"

If we don't stand strong now, it doesn't matter who we run in 2020.

[longship]

46. There are no fucking Mulligans for Presidential elections.

You don't get to reroll the dice, no matter what happened. If people do not understand that, that's their delusion.

I have lived through one Constitutional Crisis in my life. It really looks like I will see another, if I live long enough. I don't relish the thought of another. It is nothing to look forward to. Shame on anybody who is gleefully wishing it. This is in spite of the fact that I now think it has become necessary. That is in no way a happy outcome, or one to be wished. Regrettably it is the hand we've been dealt.

[Demsrule86]

49. There is no point in pursuing this. When Trump goes, GOP will take his place.

Pence, Ryan or Hatch.

[delisen]

50. Democrats are much more accepting than are Republicans

I think this is the reason the United States has Gorsuch on the Supreme Court and not Merrick Garland.

I very much dislike Mitch McConnell's political stances but he has been a master politician

If the shoe were on the other foot, McConnell would be relentless in pursuit of a political deal.

I happen to think that there is every point in pursuing justice, and yielding easily to injustice paves the way for even worse injustice.

[Demsrule86]

58. The reason we have Gorsuch is because stupid voters elected Trump...you have to have the majority

in the Senate and the presidency. This is the reality. There was no way to stop Gorsuch.

[delisen]

62. One reason we have Gorsuch is that McConnell was successful

in blocking Merrick Garland by employing a political tactic, claiming that presidents in their final year of a presidency had no right to appoint a justice to fill a vacancy on the Supreme Court. His claim appears no where in the Constitution.

There were Republican senators who respected Garland and would have found it difficult to not vote to approve him. McConnell needed prevent a vote and that is why he made his false claim.

Another reason Trump had the opportunity to nominate grouch to the Supreme Court is because McConnell was successful in keeping the facts about Russian interference from the American electorate.

McConnell may be a worse person than any Democratic office holder, and almost totally ant-democracy in his objectives but he appears to be a highly skillful politician.

[Demsrule86]

63. True...but we lost the Senate...we didn't have to...had our people turned out, there would be no

Gorsuch. Turn out for midterms or reap the consequences people.

[delisen]

64. I agree with that.

[Demsrule86]

65. Democrats have to understand that they must vote for Democrats period...and you

don't always 'love' a candidate...but if you want progressive policy, you have to.

[Volaris]

48. Hillary would have to be voted Speaker of the House,

and then trump AND pence both successfully impeached...

[delisen]

61. No. there would only need to be a vacancy in the presidency and Pence

would automatically become president. He then gets to nominate a vp.

Similar to when there was a vacancy in the vice-presidency and Nixon got to nominate a new vp.

The politics of that situation was that Congress actually first considered who they would approve-it was Gerald Ford-and Nixon acceded to their wishes by nominating Ford.

[Demsrule86]

16. The GOP would have no mechanism to overturn an election either...bitch though they might.

[delisen]

27. No one is talking about overturning an election. The

Democratic Party and the Republican Party are political parties. Politicians make deals and create the conditions for deal making.

The are moved to create those conditions and make those deals when their voters demand justice.

If their voters passively accept injustice, they don't bother with the heavy lifting-because it is hard work-physically and mentally.

[Orrex]

18. But I've read a ton of wishful thinking on DU!

Coupled with a whole lot of "we oughta" reasoning.


Surely that much anonymous internet speculation must, in the aggregate, override the Constitution, right?

[delisen]

22. It's not wishful thinking, it's deal-making and creating conditions for same

[Orrex]

25. Got a link to a credible source?

A hundred dubiously verifiable twitter musings do not a credible story make.

[delisen]

30. Sorry, your post makes no sense to me? Can you elaborate?

[Orrex]

32. I confess that yours made no sense to me either

Deal-making, etc.


I was pointing out that DU abounds with amazing twitter musings about this or that indication of Trump's impending doom, and this has been going on for months. Very often these musings evaporate or are debunked outright, yet people return again and again to their favorite twitter feeds for the next dose of wishful thinking.

Stories that break only on twitter can generally be dismissed entirely, or at least put on hold until more reliable confirmation can be made. To wit, 100 twitter stories don't amount to a credible story.

[delisen]

33. Don't use twitter; don't see any relevance to my post so I won't respond.

[Orrex]

34. The whole thread is about a twitter story

Not sure why you'd jump into it if twitter is irrelevant to you, but ok.

[delisen]

55. No reference to twitter in original post, as you must know

[Orrex]

56. Holy shit! Did I post my first reply in the wrong thread?

Damn--I think I just might have. What a dumbass move.

I apologize for being a jerk about it. After hitting the first "post reply," it seems that I never looked back.

[Cosmocat]

21. YEP

nm

[jalan48]

35. Honestly, I think we should focus on getting Trump out. Deal making for a Clinton Presidency will

just deflect attention from Trump to Clinton and re-create the campaign all over again. It would allow Trump and the Republicans to turn Trump's problem into a Clinton issue.

[CanonRay]

39. If we did that, the the Russia investigation would appear to be totally political

and I think it's going to be Trump's undoing.

[ollie10]

52. Clinton is not in the chain of succession

Arguing for Clinton would be counter-productive.

What the Trumpkins are already saying is that this whole "Russia thing" is just "sour grapes" from Dems who cannot face the reality that Hillary lost in November.

This would only feed this delusion.....and give the enemy a talking point

[delisen]

60. Should we not pursue the Russia interference for fear of

what others might say? Are we to be silent for fear of giving opponents talking points?

Is timidity in the pursuit of justice a virtue? Perhaps in Russia, but we are not Russia.

Should Pence become president he nominate a vp to fill the vacancy created and Congress gets to approve or disapprove. The nominee in such a only needs to have the qualification to be president. Multi-millions of Americans are so qualified.

To require more than that minimum would have been unconstitutional.

[mercuryblues]

19. It doesn't

matter how trump leaves office. Whether impeached, resignation or voted out, he is going to pour gasoline all over the Oval Office then toss a tiki torch on it.

[delisen]

24. You see doom, I see opportunity.

[Oneironaut]

23. Not quite yet. Trump has a small base of very committed (cult-like) followers.

They will ever give up on him. He's not going anywhere yet.

[oberliner]

26. No, he's not

And the reaction from CNN is exactly what he wanted. And to his supporters, it will prove his point about the media.

If you get a reaction like that from Fox News, then maybe something could be afoot.

But they think he did great.

[Weekend Warrior]

36. For profit media. They are not our friends. They are chasing the money and creating the news.

They helped to normalize Trump and now the will benefit from how he is anything but normal.

[Arazi]

38. You don't understand NPD if you think he's done

He'll never willingly leave and the Rs are too craven to ever remove him

[NewJeffCT]

41. Until Republicans in Congress actually do something concrete against Trump

the media and Democrats can rant and rave about Trump all they want - it won't matter. Right now, Republicans issue stern tweets or scolding statements, but otherwise keep on voting for his agenda.

[steve2470]

42. Not quite yet

When McConnell and Ryan have finally figured out they cannot pass their beloved tax cuts for their buddies, THEN....they will go to the White House and demand he resign or be impeached. Not before.

However, yes, he is definitely on the road out.

[Blue Owl]

47. Break out the fork

n/t

[SpankMe]

53. Trump will be a 2-termer.

Conservatives have hard-wired American civilization for them to keep a permanent majority. From unfixable gerrymandering, to a violent base, to the Russian-provided back-doors into US voting systems, to a lazy and compliant media presence. It'll be like Saddam Hussein's reign where he had the minority "governing" the majority. Our kids' America won't be the one we had - or the one we hoped we'd get. In fact, our kids' America won't really be America. We're in for a period of dramatic adjustment in what America is and what it means.

And it won't be good.

[Initech]

54. I'm really worried SCOTUS will side with the cons on gerrymandering.

If they do, we're finished. Game over. Permanent election fixing is their wet dream, and they will have officially accomplished that goal.

[jalan48]

57. Now this is one I would bet money against.