Question about police procedures.

[Baitball Blogger]

Two days ago, when I was driving home, I was approaching an intersection with a three way stop sign when a police car sped to the stop sign to the right of me. I stopped first, but it was clear this policeman was in a hurry. There were no lights on the car but he was going well over the 25 MPH before making a hard, but controlled stop. He had an earnest look on his face and had something to his ear. I waved him on and he took the offer without a glance of acknowledgement. Well, he didn't have a free hand to wave back, now did he?

Only now am I analyzing the situation. What was he holding in his hand? They don't use CB radios anymore. They have all the communication gizmos installed in the car. So what was he holding?

That's where we come to my question. Are police officers allowed to take calls on their private cell phones, directly from citizens in the community? If so, if they are responding to those calls, aren't they circumventing a transparent process which would reveal who is controlling their actions?

This is a concern to me because I live in a good ole boy community and there's been far too many coinky dinkys, lately. This community does have a precedent of targeting individuals and organizing to hound them. Some of the things they did were included in a legal complaint and the plaintiff settled with the city in the nineties to the tune of 2 million. I just hope the city employees learned from their mistake, even if some of the architects of that scandal didn't.

[TexasProgresive]

1. It probably was a cell phone- may be department issue or personal.

As to radio- cops have never stopped using 2 way radio communications. BTW HAM radio is amateur radio, not to be confused with CB radio. My son is an active HAM. His group have regular meetings on the air and do field day exercises where they build long distance radio nets across the country. These exercises train them in the case of a communications crisis-such as hurricanes, fires and whatever knocking out other means of communications. The HAMS have mobile units complete with generator backup.

One other thing. Before I retired I worked across the street from the county courthouse that housed the jail and the sheriff's office. So there were lots of all kinds of cops around the place; state, counties, cities and game wardens. Often when returning to the office from a remote site I would be behind the police as they approached stop signs. Mostly they just rolled through the intersection and not because they were in a hurry. I would turn into our parking lot as they were parking their car.

[Baitball Blogger]

2. Thank you, very informative.

I'll change the nomenclature.

Always loved the concept of the Ham radio. Very cool. Cell phones, of course, have filled the void. Though, it's not hard to figure out that they can also be misused.

[TexasProgresive]

6. You're welcome, from

Texas (full of more trivia then thought possible) Progresive and I know that should be Progressive but some inactive DUer has that.

[Lee-Lee]

3. There is no simple answer here but in general

There is no specific answer because every state has different laws regarding procedures and then every individual agency has its own different rules, SOP's, training and even culture.

So nobody but someone familiar with that specific agency can tell you for sure.

For some general stuff- if by "ham radio" you mean a handheld radio, officers do in fact use them. Most places have both handheld radios and car mounted radios because it takes a really good radio system to work only on handhelds with smaller antennas and less power. However some agencies in urban areas with really good radio systems in fact only issue handheld radios and have mounts in the car that they nest in when driving.

But even with a vehicle mounted radio you need to hold the microphone with your hand.

He may have been using a phone. Most departments don't issue cellphones so officers don't give numbers to the public to call direct because that's a good way to end up harassed and prank called on your private cell number (but as an aside, departments should be issuing smart phone to every officer so they can have a work phone with a number they can give to the public. The ability to call or text a specific trusted officer helps build good relations and trust). But they will get calls and texts from dispatchers- often they will call or text them details they don't want given over the air if it's something sensitive. For example we had a policy of not dispatching a sexual assault call over the air but doing it via callphone/text because you don't want everyone with a scanner hearing that someone at XXX address was just raped and violating that persons privacy on such a sensitive matter. We also used text for when we were responding to things like a call where EMS needed to get into a home where a person was locked in and needed help and there was a key hidden- they texted the key location to keep it off the air. Or gate codes to gated communities. Or pictures of suspects.

And if we were dealing with people known to keep scanners on to try and stay a step ahead of us the dispatchers would not put anything on the air but just call us or ask us to call them. And sometimes even after they sent us to that place dispatch a dummy call so people listening to scanners thought we were busy elsewhere.

And now the newer digital radio systems actually allow dispatchers and officers to text message back and forth using the handheld radios.

Now as far as off the books, at every place I every worked even back in the 90's every phone line into and out of the dispatch center was recorded. And work related calls to dispatchers cell phones were a durable offense. And those recordings are all public record anyone can request a copy of via a FOIA request, so if you really wanted to you could ask for all the call and radio recordings and dispatch logs for the time period of what you observed and see exactly what was up.

If you want to get a good view and idea of what your local agencies are doing a scanner is a wise investment for anyone who wants to be aware and provide a bit of community oversight into what's happening. Just get someone who is familiar enough with how the systems work to recommend the right kind for your area.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Thanks for the info.

I know that these things are available with a Public Records request, but that's why I'm concerned if cell phones are being used. The PRR only works if it's a department issued phone. Or if the police officer reports his private number to the department.

Today it's easy as hell to buy a burner phone. Not making any accusations, but one should always be on the alert around here. The good buddies want you to remain ignorant about the way they use their civic positions to tighten their insular society. And if you are "aware" all kinds of strange behavior has been known to occur.

Thanks again. Surely, if anything does happen it is probably good practice these days to ask for the officer's phone records on his private phone. Just say'n.

[Lee-Lee]

5. In any kind of event like a shooting all the phone records will be subpoenaed

That said I think your being more than a little paranoid based on nothing more than seeing a police officer using an extremely common and ubiquitous piece of everyday technology.

If the shoe was on the other foot would you think it would be reasonable for an officer who saw you using a cell phone and acting in a serious matter to assume you must be up to some sort of nefarious or criminal activity? To change your statement just a little to use the same logic you present the other way around:

Today it's easy as hell to buy a burner phone. Not making any accusations, but one should always be on the alert around here. The drug dealers and criminals want you to remain ignorant about the way they use their technology to tighten their criminal network. And if you are "aware" all kinds of criminal behavior has been known to occur.

Your same logic, just presented from the other vantage point, going to some pretty wild places based on nothing more than seeing a person use a cellphone. Does that seem logical or rational? I wouldn't want cops thinking like that and am sure you don't, and I just the same don't want people being that irrtional and unreasonable when thinking about cops either.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. I can understand why you would remain a skeptic.

First of all, I don't accuse that particular policeman of anything. He looked very intent on getting to wherever he had to go.

I asked a question because I live in a good ole boy community where some pretty heinous things occurred in the nineties because the city networked too closely with good buddies in the community. It resulted in a lawsuit, so there is a legal foundation for these claims. Because their misdeeds were cleverly buried in a confidentiality clause, nothing was publicly aired and discussed. Ever. No one was held accountable. After all these years, it's pretty damn apparent to me that nothing will change until we have an opportunity to truly examine what happened. And it has to be done. No surprise that over the years, these networks have not only persisted, but they have grown.

No one that supports the status quo is going to be happy with this. But I do see the urgency. In fact, everything that I have seen and experienced connects with what is going on today. I sit here in full facepalm when I read that people are bewildered that racism has persisted. Really? How is it possible that no one can see how entitled white societies have been allowed to dig into red counties without scrutiny? How is it that there has been too much tolerance for these peripheral societies that are allowed to reinforce their culture by excluding individuals, even from meetings that they have a legal right to observe. Why is our side still trapped into thinking that the only fight against racism is in the work place or in the military or in the actions of an excessive police force ? How about where we live? Or, more to the point, where we are not encouraged to live?

After everything that has happened over the last few days I can't believe that there is any social structure in our society that doesn't deserve heighten scrutiny. If I wrote a thesis on this subject the conclusion would be: The source of enduring racism is locked in society mores and beliefs that make the status quo resistant to change or scrutiny.

I hope to open eyes because it is clear to me that if you want change, you can't be afraid to ask critical questions. Any interference is nothing but gaslighting. And then there is the example of Heather Heyer. I can take the criticism. I hope Heather's mom knows, that I heard her.