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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 10:10 AM Aug 2017

Maybe the A.I. dystopia is already here

You know the scenario from 19th-century fiction and Hollywood movies: Mankind has invented a computer, or a robot or another artificial thing that has taken on a life of its own. In “ Frankenstein,” the monster is built from corpses; in “2001: A Space Odyssey,” it’s an all-seeing computer with a human voice; in “Westworld,” the robots are lifelike androids that begin to think for themselves. But in almost every case, the out-of-control artificial life form is anthropomorphic. It has a face or a body, or at least a human voice and a physical presence in the real world.

But what if the real threat from “artificial life” doesn’t look or act human at all? What if it’s just a piece of computer code that can affect what you see and therefore what you think and feel? In other words — what if it’s a bot, not a robot?

For those who don’t know (and apologies to those who are wearily familiar), a bot really is just a piece of computer code that can do things that humans can do. Wikipedia uses bots to correct spelling and grammar on its articles; bots can also play computer games or place gambling bets on behalf of human controllers. Notoriously, bots are now a major force on social media, where they can “like” people and causes, post comments, react to others. Bots can be programmed to tweet out insults in response to particular words, to share Facebook pages, to repeat slogans, to sow distrust.

Slowly, their influence is growing. One tech executive told me he reckons that half of the users on Twitter are bots, created by companies that either sell them or use them to promote various causes. The Computational Propaganda Research Project at the University of Oxford has described how bots are used to promote either political parties or government agendas in 28 countries. They can harass political opponents or their followers, promote policies, or simply seek to get ideas into circulation.

more

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/maybe-the-ai-dystopia-is-already-here/2017/07/28/d0b4c8ae-7392-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html

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Bernardo de La Paz

(49,005 posts)
1. I do not think dystopia is here. In any case, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 10:19 AM
Aug 2017

More and more AI will take white collar jobs. Already there are fewer bank tellers. Fewer loan officers because neural networks evaluate creditworthiness.

When AI fueled unemployment really gathers steam, there may be a concomitant increase in the already bad inequality of wealth and income.

Wealth and income inequality MUST be addressed, and soon. Otherwise there will be riots in the streets.

The solution is a basic guaranteed income, guaranteed housing, and guaranteed health care. Western society is rich, rich enough to afford that. Give the people that and also some creative uses for their time, and people will still work. Society will still function and function well. The rich will still be rich. It's just that the 1% do not need to be filthy rich. Period.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
2. Yep. But it will take riots to get it.
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 10:26 AM
Aug 2017

Another disappearing job- car salesmen. One can go on line, get a quote from several places, get the car delivered to your house. No more dealing with the obnoxious haggling or endless upsetting efforts.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
4. The dystopia has come and gone
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 11:17 AM
Aug 2017

It was here in the Soviet Union, in most of Europe for the second world war, in the US during the depression, in communist China etc..
Those dystopias came partly because there was not enough stuff to go around.
Climate change is still going to happen, the population will still continue to increase, we will continue to destroy ecosystems and our extinction of other species--but you think that you should get to spend your time in "creative uses" because there's plenty of stuff and others can do it all.



Bernardo de La Paz

(49,005 posts)
6. Don't put words in my mouth misinterpreting my post. My post said nothing about me
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 11:51 AM
Aug 2017

Further, I was NOT talking about those social programs for the present day (though today would not be too soon). We are not yet at the point where AI has enhanced productivity anywhere nearly as much as it will.



Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
8. I didn't misinterpret your post
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 01:17 PM
Aug 2017

perhaps you just miswrote it.
Anyway, AI might be here with fusion power and I'm not going to sympathize with your worries for the indeterminate future. We know climate change is going to get worse. We know we are already in a mass extinction event caused by us.
We know that the human population is rising and food supplies are barely keeping up.
We have plenty of problems at the present, we don't need to solve problems that probably will never happen.
I know no one who is ready to riot over inequality of wealth and income in the USA. You might be confusing the USA with Venezuela where the problem is not inequality of income, it is lack of income.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,005 posts)
9. AI is here NOW. Impacts are accelerating. Fusion power? Someday. AI is impacting our lives now.
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 02:43 PM
Aug 2017

AI is increasing productivity here and now and the pace is increasing. The question is: where will the benefits go? Will they to make the rich richer? Or will they go to improve all of society? Society can afford to distribute this new productivity, and the rich did not earn it just by being rich.

Did you think (like Ken Olsen, CEO of Digital) that home computers would be good for storing recipes and not much else? AI is here.

The main effects of climate change will be felt 50 and 100 years from now. Similarly large effects from AI will be felt 20-40 years from now, and probably sooner. The rate of acceleration is much greater than the rate of acceleration of climate change.

Population rise is slowing dramatically and is not the problem it was feared it would be. The problem with food is not production, as you think ("food supplies barely keeping up&quot but with distribution. The famine in South Sudan is a crisis manufactured by politicians in the region, exacerbated by drought but not created by drought.

Nobody, least of all me, is suggesting solving "problems that probably will never happen". Wealth and income inequality is here and now. It's a world-wide problem, it is getting worse, and the US has a bad case of it.

Wealth and income inequality is a big part of the psyche of hard tRump supporters, except they look backward and put it on immigrants and Democrats. They've been conned by Republicons.

Sure we have problems now. But wealth and income inequality is making ALL of them worse. Further, AI has great potential to help lessen many of those problems even as it (like all change) presents its own problems.


I am not confused and I did not "miswrite" my post.

I did not write about myself, but you misinterpreted my post to be about myself.

Now you accuse me of confusing the USA with Venezuela. You are making ridiculous accusations. Further, the problem in oil-rich Venezuela is not income; it is the far-left-wing authoritarian dictatorship.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
10. AI (formerly known as automation)
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 05:48 PM
Aug 2017

has not taken jobs, it has created them. We can stop automation whenever we want just by not buying the products made by it. The same with AI. If we're out of work, we won't be able to buy the stuff made by AI and the system collapses. We may not be as smart as you think artificial intelligence will be, but even AI can't violate the laws of physics.
BTW We already have enough people to cause a mass extinction event. The last one was 65 million years ago. This one is now, with the people here and now, starting before there were nearly as many of us. I guess more than 1.7 billion population growth by 2050 seems dramatically slower to you, but it doesn't to me.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,005 posts)
11. AI is not automation, not even formerly. Very different.
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 06:13 PM
Aug 2017

AI has taken jobs and continues to take jobs. It also creates jobs, but that is usually little comfort to the bank loan officer who lost their job to a neural network. Are you ready to become a robo-psychologist?

Almost everything manufactured is made with automation. Including the computer you use, the transportation you take (including bicycles), the food you eat (transported by trucks built with automation), the clothes you wear.

The solutions you are proposing are implausible.

Automation is not the same as AI. If you think so, then you understand neither. They are very different.

Want to "stop" AI? Do you have a credit card? Cut it up. Search on line? Don't. Use GPS? Stop driving. Don't order goods online.

Quit using electricity. Energy is priced and distributed with the help of AI systems.

I don't want to "stop" AI or automation.

We had enough people 50 years ago to cause a mass extinction event.

The highest population growth rates – global population increases above 1.8% per year – occurred between 1955-1975 peaking to 2.06% between 1965-1970. The growth rate has declined to 1.18% between 2010-2015 and is projected to decline to 0.13% by the year 2100.


Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
12. Change is tough, but inevitable
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 07:06 PM
Aug 2017

GPS created jobs, in fact it created a whole industry and it was not artificial intelligence. It was invented and built by humans. It does calculations by using switches built into silicon. We still have maps if you think GPS is costing jobs, in fact GPS uses maps. Humans do the mapping.
Electricity does not require AI for distribution or production. It requires machinery, but the intelligence to control that machinery and distribution system is supplied by human intelligence. Not so long electric pricing was set by public utility commissions. There are no AI appointed to these commissions, which still exist. Calculators are not AI.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,005 posts)
13. Please read & try posting again. I did NOT say "electric pricing". I said "energy" pricing.
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 07:43 PM
Aug 2017

I find it difficult to discuss when you don't read what I write and distort it. I may have to stop with this.

There is no such thing as electric pricing. Pricing is not electric unless you are thrilled by a sale on men's suits.

There is electricity pricing. Even when electricity rates are set by commissions, the energy sources used to produce that electricity are free to fluctuate, so utilities use artificial intelligence to switch sources for optimum cost reduction. Energy commodity prices are influenced by AI analysis and advice.





Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
14. Electricity is energy, the last I knew
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 08:26 PM
Aug 2017

and it involves the most complex networks of the various energies. In fact the sales presentation you provided starts off with a blurb about the power grid (which distributes electricity). The factual claims made by the presentation are all within the realm of existing technology and have more to do with building (and paying for) a grid that has enough redundancy so we have alternative paths to send the power through. No artificial intelligence is required. This is more like a reflex response, the signals don't even reach the brain.

Raastan

(266 posts)
3. Even hit songs on the radio are produced this way
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 11:16 AM
Aug 2017

I remember reading awhile ago that there are algorithms to create music that people will like.

So, in a sense, we don't always choose our own music...!

Creepy!

ProfessorPlum

(11,257 posts)
5. I'll bet there are bots that point out Sanders is not a Democrat
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 11:35 AM
Aug 2017

which is a really great point that isn't made enough.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
7. It won't last.
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 12:11 PM
Aug 2017

When climate change robs us of viable farmland, and population crashes due to starvation, and the electrical grid collapses because nobody is left who knows how to keep it running, A.I. will become irrelevant. Like civilization itself, it's just a flash in the pan.

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