"Abortion rights" are not about abortions, and "Freedom of Choice" isn't about choosing

[cyclonefence]

What many on the right do not understand is that *no one* makes the decision to end a pregnancy joyfully. Fighting against a woman's right to make this decision implies that women are not smart enough, or thoughtful enough, or sensitive enough to understand the moral weight of what they are doing, and that is insupportable.

It maddens me when anyone doesn't understand that being "pro-choice" isn't about abortions; it's about respecting the fact that women are adults as capable of understanding what they are doing as men are, whether it's having an abortion or buying a gun.

The RW bangs its head against the wall of "It's murder! It's murder" as if women don't understand what they are doing.

And don't tell me you are "personally" opposed to abortion--well, who the hell isn't? For Glob's sake, who would want to go through an abortion *unless* there was a fucking overwhelmingly good reason to do so? "Pro-lifers" deny that women are capable of deciding what reason is sufficient--again, whether it's to have an abortion or to get a divorce.

If you are "personally opposed" to abortion--good for you, join the rest of the world. Nobody wants to be in a position to decide whether or not to have an abortion, and your announcing your own "personal" moral superiority doesn't mean shit. I don't care how you feel in your heart about abortion; either you are for accepting that women are adult human beings or you are not.

That's what makes abortion rights the most important--and clearest--litmus test I can think of.

"Pro-lifers" employ all kinds of smokescreens to hide the real motivation behind their efforts to infantilize women--forcing them to watch videos of fetuses because women of course don't understand that there is the beginnings of a baby in there; "protecting" women by imposing impossible conditions on abortion clinics to have facilities comparable to a full-service hospital; making it as hard as possible to get to an abortion provider; insisting on humiliating, invasive "testing" before an abortion can be approved; propagandizing out the wazoo--the list goes on. Common to all of them is the underlying belief that women just don't know any better.

Well, fuck that.

[SheLiberal]

1. Well Said

Excellent summation of why abortion rights are not negotiable.

[mercuryblues]

2. thank you

I have been dismayed by the posts here that women must accept and vote for anti-choice candidates in the Democratic party for the sake of winning. None of those who say we must accept this are willing to put any of their rights on the negotiating table for a win. Can you imagine telling a disabled person that they must accept a candidate against the Americans with disabilities act because the candidate thinks it is an undue burden on businesses?

The ones telling women this must be accepted fail to realize that without full control over what happens to her own body she has absolutely no freedom.

When a woman's right to chose is taken away, the rest of her rights will be easy to deny.

[cyclonefence]

4. Either you are for equal rights for women

or you aren't. Assessing a candidate's position on abortion rights is a quick, reliable test for their attitude toward women's rights in general.

And while I'm grateful for men like Biden and Kaine, I am *so fucking tired* of having them feel compelled to announce their *personal* opposition to abortion, as if all the rest of us go off to the clinic prancing with joy. In fact, Roman Catholics who in public life support abortion rights are morally suspect to me--why would you give your soul (and your money) to an institution that denigrates women at every turn? And then they want to be praised for not following their church's line on this one issue? Give me a fucking break.

[mercuryblues]

6. This

Either you are for equal rights for women or you aren't.

I am tired of hearing things like I fully support a woman's right to choose, but women need to understand ...

Not only is that condescending as fuck, you can not fully support anything if you have caveats.

Could you imagine someone saying: I fully support disabled rights, but wheelchair ramps aren't really needed. They can have some kind stranger pull them up the stairs. Disabled people need to realize that a Democrat would not get elected in the red county if they were for disability rights.

[cyclonefence]

10. Exactly n/t

[Solly Mack]

3. K&R

[Bettie]

5. As long as they will vote for reproductive choice

I do not care what their personal opinions are.

Me? I believe that each woman needs to make her own decisions when it comes to her body.

The constant statement that we need to vote for candidates who would vote to strip us of our rights smacks of "sit down and shut up, little lady" paternalism.

[cyclonefence]

8. I agree

but why the *hell* are they compelled to announce their "personal opposition to abortion?" What good does that do, other than to suggest that there is a higher moral ground up there somewhere? What's wrong with "I support a woman's right to choose abortion?"

[barbtries]

12. it does nothing else but broadcast their moral superiority.

and many times when faced with a tough decision, they swallow that and have an abortion. Many, many women have abortions. Even among the women standing in front of the clinic with their signs yelling at others that they're murderers.

what's so hard? I'm pro-choice and I am not here to judge any but those who would strip me of my rights.

[rpannier]

18. Bill Clinton did

In 92 at the Democratic convention

[Bettie]

25. It's the moral high ground thing

makes them feel more holy or something.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. I wish people would stop setting up expectations about how women feel when they get abortions.

What many on the right do not understand is that *no one* makes the decision to end a pregnancy joyfully.

To say this sets up an expectation about how women *should* feel or act when they *do* get an abortion. It makes as little sense as saying "no one makes the decision to get an appendectomy joyfully" or any other routine health care procedure.

[cyclonefence]

9. I was pretty fucking joyful to have *my* appendectomy!

But I take your point. I am trying to counter the RW position that women who get abortions do so blithely and carelessly. Abortions I know about have been sad, wrenching occasions, with relief as the only positive emotion.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Yeah, I don't think trying to counter their narrative is useful to women.

Because then all I hear from Democrats is, "They weren't blithe and careless! They were sad and reluctant!" As if women SHOULD be sad and reluctant to get an abortion. I'd like to see the narrative change so abortion is seen for what it is, as an annoying but necessary healthcare procedure, that women think about as much as any of us would think about getting a gall bladder out -- not this ponderous, devastating decision where they beat their breast and are sorry the whole time, as they should be, the jezebels.

[Corvo Bianco]

15. I agree. Whether it's joyful, woeful, it's not a crime.

And that womb belongs to one person. If it ain't yours, don't worry about it.

[volstork]

16. Agreed. This is a crucial point, I think;

why should ANYone be able to presume what another person "should" feel when entering into any decision. Divorce is often a difficult decision and process, but I know individuals who were ECSTATIC to finalize their divorces, even as I know ones who were crushed. Stating or implying what another person "should" feel is an unacceptable intrusion on that person's autonomy.

I have to colleagues who have been working on a project to diminish the stigma attached to abortion by having women and families to tell their abortion stories. Please see the following link:
http://tnstories.org/
It is a powerful view into the lives of these brave individuals, and one of the best ways we have to de stigmatize abortion.

[barbtries]

11. thank you

100% agree.

[JHan]

14. It's essentially about the right to control my own body and make my own medical decisions.

Thank you for the OP.

[yallerdawg]

17. At some point in the process, doesn't everyone become 'pro-life?'

Abortion is 'the termination of an unwanted pregnancy.'

Roe v Wade and other rulings made it legal in the first-trimester or so, with exceptions beyond.

So, technically, after 3 months in a pregnancy, we "all" agree to become 'pro-life.'

I guess almost every Democrat goes along with this. We're all happy with these Democrats - who are, in fact, restricting a woman's right to choose.

So - if some Democrats extend that restriction back to the moment of conception, the creation of a new life, the beginning of a pregnancy, why would this be the grand 'litmus test?'

As a 'litmus test,' what Democrat doesn't fail this?

[calimary]

19. And NEVER forget, either, that there ARE those in this country whose "sincerely-held belief" is

that America started going downhill when women got the right to vote.

I've HEARD these assholes spout off on the limbaugh show. I've HEARD them. Btw - they're all male.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

20. K & R!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

21. Life or Death. To my mind, it's about a Woman's right to Her life.

Roe v Wade came about because the laws against abortion (and birth control) were proving to be a cause of horrific deaths for women and pubertal girls.

Women have and will ALWAYS seek ways to decide whether or not they get or stay pregnant--there will always be cases where the prospect of carrying a pregnancy is a worse choice than seeking whatever means possible to end it.

There were so many women mutilated and/or killed by backalley solutions or their own desperate attempts to abort on their own, that the need for safe, legal accessible medical care became clear.

It's not about choice or privacy---it's about who decides whether women live or die.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. "pro-lifers" are actually only pro-fetus, anti-women, anti-child rearing. Punish the child for life

Every fetus is precious to them but they abandon any children that are not their own or are not privileged.

If a family is impoverished, then the child has to be punished for a lifetime with a poor start because of the sins of the parents -- 'sins' that are most often imagined by hypocritical "pro-life" people.

Same thing if a woman (or father) is a single parent: punish the child for a lifetime.

[plimsoll]

26. Not at all precious.

Think about how much many of these people supported the Iraq war, or drone strikes on people. You can't tell me that plenty of fetuses didn't die from those activities. It's ok because it's "those" people. This "right to life" newspeak is double plus inconsistent.

[ancianita]

23. It's also about women's free will. If it's not free, then religion is oppression. Which extends to

other areas, like the pulpit, dress codes, public appearance, speech, behavior, ownership of one's name and one's body.

No religion should stand between a woman and her god(dess).

Believe it or not, a priest told me this, in so many words -- before the passage of Roe -- when I asked him if I'd also be excommunicated over an abortion, since it was illegal.

Since then I've evolved to become pro-abortion.

[maddiemom]

24. When I was teaching, one of the office secretaries took her break

during my planning period. Over several years, we developed a cordial work friendship and usually chatted when I was correcting papers. On day she began complaining about people who were "pro abortion," the first time the controversial topic had ever come up. I mildly responded that the term was "pro choice," because no one was really PRO abortion. That was all it took for her to go quiet. She pointedly never talked to me again except when work necessitated it, and then usually took her break at another time. I was astounded and a little hurt. Years later, I still remember her over-reaction, and, I'm afraid, tend to take the incident as the unreasonable attitude of many "anti-abortion" people. At least, she was a woman, with a bit more right to her attitude than many virulent "antiabortion" men,

[Lunabell]

27. This is a deal breaker for me

My body is mine.