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sunonmars

(8,656 posts)
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:37 PM Aug 2017

MUELLER IMPANELS GRAND JURY

https://www.wsj.com/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287?mod=e2twus

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has impaneled a grand jury in Washington to investigate Russia’s interference in the 2016 elections, a sign that his inquiry is growing in intensity and entering a new phase, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The grand jury, which began its work in recent weeks, is a sign that Mr. Mueller’s inquiry is ramping up and that it will likely continue for months. Mr. Mueller is investigating Russia’s efforts to influence the 2016 election and whether President Donald Trump’s campaign or associates colluded with the Kremlin as part of that effort.

A spokesman for Mr. Mueller, Joshua Stueve, declined to comment. Moscow has denied seeking to influence the election, and Mr. Trump has vigorously disputed allegations of collusion. The president has called Mr. Mueller’s inquiry a “witch hunt.”

Ty Cobb, special counsel to the president, said he wasn’t aware that Mr. Mueller had started using a new grand jury. “Grand jury matters are typically secret,” Mr. Cobb said. “The White House favors anything that accelerates the conclusion of his work fairly.…The White House is committed to fully cooperating with Mr. Mueller.”


.......


Holy Shit balls....Did Mueller do this because Trump was going to fire him today..is that what Trump was going to announce later?
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MUELLER IMPANELS GRAND JURY (Original Post) sunonmars Aug 2017 OP
this is very significant. drray23 Aug 2017 #1
Apparently he did it weeks ago, suggests he has the goods and is going for more. sunonmars Aug 2017 #2
maybe they already have returned sealed indictments drray23 Aug 2017 #5
Correct. H2O Man Aug 2017 #55
:) BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2017 #113
Indictments almost certain and all the necessary evidence ready to present to jurors. L. Coyote Aug 2017 #62
Trump was indicted months ago per Louise Mensch Not Ruth Aug 2017 #126
He is going to announce that the reprobate Gov. Of W. Va. is going "republican" oldmanandthesea Aug 2017 #3
Aha! That's what this tweet is about: Kingofalldems Aug 2017 #4
That's a new one BumRushDaShow Aug 2017 #19
Did trump know this was coming and his rally "announcement" is the news diversion? Mrs. Overall Aug 2017 #6
suggests No - as trumps "counsel" was shocked....panic has set in at the WH. sunonmars Aug 2017 #8
The White House favors anything that accelerates the conclusion of his work fairly." TexasTowelie Aug 2017 #7
I think this is an important quote from the article: MelissaB Aug 2017 #9
He's ramping it up, he added an "illegal foreign bribe" lawyer yesterday tells us everything. sunonmars Aug 2017 #12
This guy? Native Aug 2017 #40
Official White House comment: Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2017 #10
LOL! You made me click. nolabear Aug 2017 #68
There haven't been many (any?) leaks coming from Mueller's team, have there? NurseJackie Aug 2017 #11
That was what was driving me nuts in anticipation MiddleClass Aug 2017 #33
Not to my knowledge NastyRiffraff Aug 2017 #91
This is a good step in the right direction Gothmog Aug 2017 #13
I'm cackling like a witch right now. SaschaHM Aug 2017 #14
More like DEFCON 1. GallopingGhost Aug 2017 #25
It's DEFCON 1, Cocked pistol: Nuclear war is imminent sarge43 Aug 2017 #67
Must be why Hannity did a hit piece on Mueller yesterday. WhollyHeretic Aug 2017 #15
Someone's getting indicted C_U_L8R Aug 2017 #16
Have a fun vacation, and just keep repeating "Crooked Hillary" ROFLMAO L. Coyote Aug 2017 #70
Nuclear war with NK in the next few days.., maryellen99 Aug 2017 #17
Military generals would invoke the 25th Amendment Duppers Aug 2017 #31
Let's hope so..nt maryellen99 Aug 2017 #36
Mattis might. Kelly would help push the button. Nt adigal Aug 2017 #45
The system isn't actually engineered to allow that. AtheistCrusader Aug 2017 #65
It would seem that Congress would call Duppers Aug 2017 #74
Congress (likely) couldn't stop Trump Massacure Aug 2017 #115
Slight correction: Wednesdays Aug 2017 #120
Thank you! Duppers Aug 2017 #122
Generals cannot invoke the 25th Massacure Aug 2017 #114
Thank You! Duppers Aug 2017 #121
To investigate Benghazi??!! progressoid Aug 2017 #18
! Kali Aug 2017 #90
A D.C. based grand jury! Nice! Glimmer of Hope Aug 2017 #20
Indeed. nt SunSeeker Aug 2017 #132
BOOM SHAAK-A-LACKA Nailzberg Aug 2017 #21
"continue for months" berksdem Aug 2017 #22
Are you part of a military family too? Deb Aug 2017 #30
Military/Defense Dept seems to running policy Juliusseizure Aug 2017 #56
I am mercuryblues Aug 2017 #77
Enjoy the sweet things in life, you deserve it Deb Aug 2017 #107
I don't understand why Special Counsel would need to impanel a grand jury. Sunlei Aug 2017 #23
grand juries are the ones that can return indicments. drray23 Aug 2017 #26
Yes, I think if a GJ indicts the trial happens a lot sooner. mobeau69 Aug 2017 #34
There are only two reasons for a grand jury in this case Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #32
he wouldn't be pulling attorneys from the private sector as recently as yesterday if it is #2. Native Aug 2017 #44
Wouldn't reason 2 be inconsistent w/hiring Juliusseizure Aug 2017 #48
Probably. Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #51
Assange has a third reason, no evidence. LOL. L. Coyote Aug 2017 #76
He a moron more and more every day... Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #81
He is also worried because he is part of a criminal conspiracy. He may be indicted too. L. Coyote Aug 2017 #83
When the court of public opinion holds absolutely ZERO sway in the ultimate disposition Mr. Ected Aug 2017 #96
Self delusion requires constant reinforcement and the very best lies, only the best lies, bigly lies L. Coyote Aug 2017 #101
CNN was saying this on the radio today Not Ruth Aug 2017 #128
Per Louise Mensch, there have been grand juries in EDVA for months Not Ruth Aug 2017 #127
Nicole Wallace's guests are saying that Mueller just needs more space for BigmanPigman Aug 2017 #50
Yes, that is entirely possible MiddleClass Aug 2017 #24
2nd one, already one for Flynn...this is getting EXCITING Eliot Rosewater Aug 2017 #27
Flynn had financial ties to Cambridge Analytica. They coordinated with Russian Intelligence UCmeNdc Aug 2017 #123
I wish I could take credit for what I am about to say Eliot Rosewater Aug 2017 #137
Trump has a lawyer named Ty Cobb? That's rich! Every avid baseball fan knows Still In Wisconsin Aug 2017 #28
He is related to the same MiddleClass Aug 2017 #35
They are related. Sophiegirl Aug 2017 #38
Ty Cobb wanted to play 47of74 Aug 2017 #52
LOL SunSeeker Aug 2017 #133
OWWWWWWW! Botany Aug 2017 #29
Waiting for Trump to unleash the bling bedazzled squirrels as countermeasures. nt procon Aug 2017 #37
GOOD!! ailsagirl Aug 2017 #39
MSNBC is officially calling it a "Grand Jury Investigation". Even though it is the same investigate BigmanPigman Aug 2017 #41
I think Trump resigns in August, may never even go back to DC adigal Aug 2017 #42
this has always been the thing i never quite understood - with all that baggage, why would you run? Native Aug 2017 #46
Since the earliest Grrek tragedies, hubris takes people down nt adigal Aug 2017 #47
Money from Russia is reason enough for Trump world wide wally Aug 2017 #59
Ego Is Certainly SDJay Aug 2017 #61
If I could get inside his mind Juliusseizure Aug 2017 #66
Nice! Native Aug 2017 #87
Malignant narcissist sociopaths mcar Aug 2017 #69
Pence just got in on Trumps' coat tails. maddiemom Aug 2017 #71
This message was self-deleted by its author maddiemom Aug 2017 #73
Pence might think twice. safeinOhio Aug 2017 #75
Never humbled_opinion Aug 2017 #80
I agree...he will resign soon. WinstonSmith4740 Aug 2017 #84
And they will be like W and Cheney...never able to walk on a street again adigal Aug 2017 #86
Boy, would I love to be on that jury. trof Aug 2017 #43
Yeah me too 47of74 Aug 2017 #53
Where would you find an impartial jury? Juliusseizure Aug 2017 #64
That's the thing ailsagirl Aug 2017 #88
Me three. tazkcmo Aug 2017 #57
I get a small degree of satisfaction in imaging the con man squirming in Enoki33 Aug 2017 #49
I'm thinking of him calling his safeinOhio Aug 2017 #78
Love it .. Hieronymus Aug 2017 #54
Grand Juries are not investigative. They are there to decide whether to indict. Blue_true Aug 2017 #58
Not a lawyer, not even a paralegal MiddleClass Aug 2017 #82
There are several DU members who are Attornies. Maybe they can weigh in. Blue_true Aug 2017 #85
I'm no longer practicing but... More_Cowbell Aug 2017 #116
Thank you for narrowing them down, it helps perception a lot MiddleClass Aug 2017 #138
They can issue subpoenas. That's investigative. n/t pnwmom Aug 2017 #97
Serious question: how do they assign a judge to this Grand Jury hearing? FakeNoose Aug 2017 #104
I don't know. Blue_true Aug 2017 #105
OK maybe somebody else here knows FakeNoose Aug 2017 #106
"possible financial crimes, some unconnected to the 2016 elections" Second Grand Jury too!! L. Coyote Aug 2017 #60
So....how would DU react if Mueller, in the end, finds no evidence other than circumstantial? LiberalLovinLug Aug 2017 #63
not even remotely possible Native Aug 2017 #89
"Fitzmas" Cosmocat Aug 2017 #98
I'm not sayin LiberalLovinLug Aug 2017 #124
Not possible. So much obvious obstruction, collusion, lying, and we don't even have the tax returns flibbitygiblets Aug 2017 #100
Who's got two tiny hands and is acting guilty as everloving fuck? Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #109
I dunno. The team he is assembling didn't put their careers on hold Ruby the Liberal Aug 2017 #110
He admitted to obstruction already More_Cowbell Aug 2017 #118
Is "financial crimes" enough? LiberalLovinLug Aug 2017 #125
He's openly violated the emoluments clause Kentonio Aug 2017 #135
Unless I do not understand the legal issue here (a distinct possibility) doesn't the Grand Jury Still In Wisconsin Aug 2017 #72
Show time! n/t Cognitive_Resonance Aug 2017 #79
Don Jr and Jared will probably be the first two witnesses they subpoena? kentuck Aug 2017 #92
As long as pence goes down, too. he can't be the knight in shining armor mucifer Aug 2017 #93
Time for my favorite Trump Gif! JHan Aug 2017 #94
Bring it on! workinclasszero Aug 2017 #95
If Mueller's strategy is to use indictments and plea bargains GopherGal Aug 2017 #99
Yes Vinnie From Indy Aug 2017 #102
And for this crew, it will end up a purgery trap. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2017 #111
Could you imagine if tRump went under oath Ken Star style MrPurple Aug 2017 #130
I hope Trump doesn't slither away. aikoaiko Aug 2017 #103
Only if it was Ivanka. I honestly don't think he cares about any of the rest. briv1016 Aug 2017 #108
Big news! Mueller issues subpoenas over Jr.'s Russia meeting! machoneman Aug 2017 #112
Target Rich Environment gristy Aug 2017 #117
There is another reason to impanel a Grand Jury. Scruffy1 Aug 2017 #119
Kind of appropriate that the lawyer representing the racism President is Ty Cobb MrPurple Aug 2017 #129
If Trump gets a choice of him or his kids go to jail...what does he choose? sunonmars Aug 2017 #131
Yep. He already threw Don Jr. under the bus. nt SunSeeker Aug 2017 #134
The noose of treason is tightening around this administration. PatrickforO Aug 2017 #136
Prosecutors are working diligently bucolic_frolic Aug 2017 #139

drray23

(7,637 posts)
1. this is very significant.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:39 PM
Aug 2017

if he is empaneling a grand jury, this means he is thinking that he is very close or already has enough material to ask for indictments.

drray23

(7,637 posts)
5. maybe they already have returned sealed indictments
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:42 PM
Aug 2017

and Mueller is waiting to release all of them at once.

H2O Man

(73,622 posts)
55. Correct.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:01 PM
Aug 2017

It's also insurance that Trump cannot fire him, as obstruction is the easiest, quickest charge to get an indictment on.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
62. Indictments almost certain and all the necessary evidence ready to present to jurors.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:18 PM
Aug 2017

Witnesses already interviewed and selected for the panel, etc., etc.






TexasTowelie

(112,451 posts)
7. The White House favors anything that accelerates the conclusion of his work fairly."
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:44 PM
Aug 2017

Since firing Mueller would accelerate the conclusion of his work shouldn't we also conclude that the White House sees firing Mueller is an effective outcome?

MelissaB

(16,420 posts)
9. I think this is an important quote from the article:
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:44 PM
Aug 2017
“This doesn’t mean he is going to bring charges,” Mr. Zeno cautioned. “But it shows he is very serious. He wouldn’t do this if it were winding down.”


The "winding down" sounds quite significant.

Native

(5,943 posts)
40. This guy?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:39 PM
Aug 2017

From the article:

"Another sign the investigation is ramping up: Greg Andres, a top partner in a powerhouse New York law firm, Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP, has joined Mr. Mueller's team. Mr. Andres, a former top Justice Department official who also oversaw the criminal division of the U.S. attorney's office in Brooklyn, wouldn't leave his private-sector job for a low-level investigation, Mr. Zeno said." "People like Greg Andres don't leave private practice willy-nilly," Mr. Zeno said, "The fact he is being added after a couple of months shows how serious this is and that it could last a long time."

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
91. Not to my knowledge
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 06:25 PM
Aug 2017

Mueller simply doesn't leak, and he has the stature to make sure his team doesn't either.

This is getting good! I'm stocking up:

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
14. I'm cackling like a witch right now.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:47 PM
Aug 2017

Last edited Thu Aug 3, 2017, 07:57 PM - Edit history (1)

It's probably Defcon 1 (Thanks) at the WH now.

GallopingGhost

(2,404 posts)
25. More like DEFCON 1.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:19 PM
Aug 2017

Five is least severe. I can only imagine how Twitler is reacting to this piece of news.

C_U_L8R

(45,021 posts)
16. Someone's getting indicted
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 03:59 PM
Aug 2017

and someone may be an un-indicted co-conspirator.

Seems its getting too late to fire Mueller.

Duppers

(28,127 posts)
31. Military generals would invoke the 25th Amendment
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:23 PM
Aug 2017

And not follow that order - an order which would end in destroying S.K. and parts of Japan. Remember there are ~84,000 Americans stationed in SK and Japan.

Also China wouldn't just sit there. Too dangerous a scenario. The military knows this man is nuts. If they chose ignore his transgender order, I think they'd ignore a call for nuclear war.



AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
65. The system isn't actually engineered to allow that.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:21 PM
Aug 2017

If the Secretary of Defense does not concur, the president can fire him and replace him until one does say 'concur'.

Duppers

(28,127 posts)
74. It would seem that Congress would call
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:26 PM
Aug 2017

A special emergency session in that case.

Often repeated here: this man is too incompetent, insane, and dangerous to hold the highest office in the country.

Massacure

(7,526 posts)
115. Congress (likely) couldn't stop Trump
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:55 PM
Aug 2017

They could impeach him, but I doubt they could convene 218 yay votes in the House, 51 yay votes in the Senate, and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court before the nukes left their silos.

The more likely scenario would be:
1) Trump orders the nuclear strike
2) James Mattis says no.
3) Trump fires Mattis and Patrick Shanahan takes over as he is Deputy Secretary of Defense.
4) Mattis calls Mike Pence
5) Mike Pence tries to convince eight of the 15 cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment and declare Trump unfit for office
6) Pence and the eight cabinet members send a message to the Speaker of the House (Paul Ryan) and Senate President Pro Tempore (Orrin Hatch) that Pence is Acting-President of the United States.

Wednesdays

(17,412 posts)
120. Slight correction:
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 12:03 AM
Aug 2017

They would need 67 votes in the Senate to convict Rump. But if anything, that bolsters your point.

Edit: let's hope that in your scenario, steps 4, 5, and 6 happen very quickly...like within minutes, if not seconds.

Massacure

(7,526 posts)
114. Generals cannot invoke the 25th
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:49 PM
Aug 2017

The 25th can only by invoked by the Vice President in addition to eight of the 15 cabinet members.

If President issues an order for a nuclear strike, the National Command Authority would contact the Secretary of Defense to validate the order. Legally, the Secretary of Defense is only supposed to be able to authenticate the validity of the order; he or she cannot veto it. If James Mattis refused to validate a nuclear strike order from Trump, things would get interesting to say the least.

Trump could fire Mattis and order Patrick Shanahan (the Deputy Secretary of Defense) to validate the order. If Shanahan refused, Trump could fire him and order the next person in line to validate the order.

Mattis would probably call Mike Pence, and Pence could then try to convince eight cabinet members to recognize him as acting president. If Pence got the support of eight cabinet members, he would then have to inform the Speaker of the House and the Senate President Pro Tempore of such. I'm not sure how the military chain of command would be notified though.

Duppers

(28,127 posts)
121. Thank You!
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 12:12 AM
Aug 2017

I should have looked this up. My 2nd thought was that it would take a congressional act.

Thank you for enlightening me.

Pence is also nuts but do you think that he would start a nuclear war with North Korea? If he took the sane route, could he get 8 cabinet members to agree?



berksdem

(595 posts)
22. "continue for months"
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:13 PM
Aug 2017

awwww, come on! we could be in a nuclear war by then! Bring this F-er down quickly please!


Sorry folks, just being impatient.

Deb

(3,742 posts)
30. Are you part of a military family too?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:22 PM
Aug 2017

Days like this you laugh tears. Hang in there, the good guys are gonna win this!

Juliusseizure

(562 posts)
56. Military/Defense Dept seems to running policy
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:06 PM
Aug 2017

since Trump is clueless and crazy, and I don't think Trump would digress from advice, or be allowed to.

Which is good in his case, with Mattis and Kelly in there. Though JFK would have bombed Cuba and started WWIII if it was up to his generals.

It just goes to show how ignorant, self-centered and CHILDLIKE Trump supporters are - exclusively focused on race - by allowing this idiot in there.

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
77. I am
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:29 PM
Aug 2017

and despite just coming back from deployment, be ready to deploy was the message when trump started squatting in the White House. Officers are very worried what he might do.

Just look at his tweet the other day when trump said he had a big announcement for the military. Then took almost 10 minutes to tweet the announcement. The bigwigs thought he was going to announce bombing NK. He then announced his ban on transgender members, which the military promptly said they weren't going to change policy.

Deb

(3,742 posts)
107. Enjoy the sweet things in life, you deserve it
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 09:20 PM
Aug 2017

My husband worked in the Titan silos and we had some very anxious times but never anything like this. My son is currently deployed to Japan, everyone here and there is nervous, a very insecure time for us all.

drray23

(7,637 posts)
26. grand juries are the ones that can return indicments.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:21 PM
Aug 2017

prosecutors can present facts to the grand jury. If they return an indictment, the prosecutor can then proceed directly to trial.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
32. There are only two reasons for a grand jury in this case
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:23 PM
Aug 2017

Reason 1- he has enough evidence for an indictment and wants one.

Reason 2- he doesn't have enough evidence or it's a close call and he wants a grand jury to make the call to not move forward based on what they have instead of doing it himself so as to not look like he did it or so he doesn't take the heat for nothing coming from his investigation by saying "I have it all to the grand jury, it was their call not mine."

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
51. Probably.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:56 PM
Aug 2017

I don't think it's likely that option 2 is on the table, but like I said you never know and should be aware of all possibilities and not read this to mean anything for sure.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
83. He is also worried because he is part of a criminal conspiracy. He may be indicted too.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:40 PM
Aug 2017

And Ecuador would likely turn him over for that one.

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
96. When the court of public opinion holds absolutely ZERO sway in the ultimate disposition
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:07 PM
Aug 2017

Why in God's name do Trump and Assange and these fools take straight to Twitter to feign innocence when their guilt will soon be revealed? What is the upside? A few more days of pretend bravado?

STFU.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
101. Self delusion requires constant reinforcement and the very best lies, only the best lies, bigly lies
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:40 PM
Aug 2017

Trump will read this and think it really happened.

Trump Says Mueller Just Called Him and Said He’s the Most Innocent Person Ever
By Andy Borowitz - http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-says-mueller-just-called-him-and-said-hes-the-most-innocent-person-ever

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The special counsel, Robert Mueller, just called Donald Trump to tell the President that he was “the most innocent person ever,” Trump told reporters on Thursday.

“It was the middle of the afternoon, and he just picked up the phone to say how innocent I was,” Trump said. “He said I was the most innocent person he’d ever come across, and maybe in history.”

“He said he had been over all of the evidence and that he and his staff would spend hours just looking at each other in amazement at about how unbelievably innocent I was,” he said.

Trump said that he asked Mueller why, in his opinion, the media had reported so many stories about his campaign colluding with Russians. “Bob said to me, ‘Are you talking about the failing New York Times and CNN?’ ” Trump reported. “ ‘They have been very unfair to you. They are bad (or sick) people. Sad!’ That’s what Bob said to me.” ......


 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
128. CNN was saying this on the radio today
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:06 AM
Aug 2017

No collusion, Mueller is past that, focusing on finances. And that a Mueller has crossed a red line, whatever that is.

BigmanPigman

(51,632 posts)
50. Nicole Wallace's guests are saying that Mueller just needs more space for
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:56 PM
Aug 2017

all of the documentation, the growing staff and their work, the growing list of spacial attorneys, along with the new Grand Jury people and their staff and the area is larger and it makes sense as far as distance, bringing more witnesses/ people in to interview, etc.

They are saying that Mueller is nearing the fine tuning portion of the investigation and this will take a while but he knows what and who he needs to bring it all together completely and thoroughly from all angles.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,121 posts)
137. I wish I could take credit for what I am about to say
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:11 AM
Aug 2017
I have the best juries
my juries are so great
.. so great they're called grand
 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
28. Trump has a lawyer named Ty Cobb? That's rich! Every avid baseball fan knows
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:21 PM
Aug 2017

that Ty Cobb might be the all-time biggest asshole in the history of the sport!

BigmanPigman

(51,632 posts)
41. MSNBC is officially calling it a "Grand Jury Investigation". Even though it is the same investigate
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:42 PM
Aug 2017

the name change implies the severity. This may throw the fake prez into an even bigger basket case. Wonder what he'll say at his pep rally (who pays for those by the way?).

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
42. I think Trump resigns in August, may never even go back to DC
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:43 PM
Aug 2017

Then Pence pardons him.
He will forget, as usual, about NY's Atty General who is also on the hunt, and Pence can't pardon state crimes.
With his corrupt business history, Trump should NEVER HAVE run for any office, even dogcatcher.

Native

(5,943 posts)
46. this has always been the thing i never quite understood - with all that baggage, why would you run?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:50 PM
Aug 2017

ok, never mind. Ego, check. Self-delusional, check. Greedy, check. Stupid, check.

SDJay

(1,089 posts)
61. Ego Is Certainly
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:16 PM
Aug 2017

part of it, in my opinion. Let's not forget, though, that Russia has been grooming this clown for years, and I think this is all part of a 'creative' way for Dump to 'pay back' the hundreds of millions of dollars the deadbeat will never otherwise pay back to Russian creditors.

Putin, aside from whatever other kompromat he has, literally owns his ass. He ran because he was told to run.

mcar

(42,376 posts)
69. Malignant narcissist sociopaths
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:23 PM
Aug 2017

are never responsible for their behavior. The way he lies about the littlest things, and does it so badly, shows the ego and delusion.

Oh, I want them all to go down!

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
71. Pence just got in on Trumps' coat tails.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:24 PM
Aug 2017

He should be subject to the same election irregularities applied to Trump (of course, Ryan is just as unappealing, Hatch not so good, either). It infuriates me that Trump is only in due to the Electoral College, which was allegedly in place to stop the very kind of candidate Trump was well-known to be. After the Democrats lost despite winning the popular vote in 2000, nothing but a little grumbling occurred. Supposedly the Bush people were ready for an all-out fight if the popular/electoral votes had gone the other way. Trump's followers would be up for bloodshed if the rightful winner were installed in the office now. What a mess! I put a lot of it on the Democrats, who did nothing about the Electoral College after 2000.

Response to adigal (Reply #42)

humbled_opinion

(4,423 posts)
80. Never
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:32 PM
Aug 2017

His ego wouldn't allow it check him out tonight in WV with massive crowds of adoring fans, he eats that shit up. Any crime he could get impeached but I doubt the Repub house would even consider it, of course it becomes the dominate campaign issue for 2018 our side saying hold him accountable elect us, but that comes with risk and if in fact we win the House we can certainly impeach him but again he won't resign and the Senate would require 2/3 to remove and sorry but that simply won't happen. I believe his minions are already beginning a push to get a special counsel to investigate the leaks, the Clinton campaign, and the previous administration unmasking, they do this to muddy the waters and point fingers, political tactic may backfire on them.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,059 posts)
84. I agree...he will resign soon.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:41 PM
Aug 2017

Mueller wouldn't have impaneled this grand jury if he didn't have some serious shit. Trump will walk before he lets his financial affairs be made public. Personally, I think it's because he just isn't as wealthy as he claims to be, or possibly at all, and that would destroy his whole "mystique/brand". He just thought he could bully everyone to get his own way, just like he did in business. I'm just to the point that I don't care if he, his evil spawn, or anyone else involved in this national nightmare ever do any time. I mean, I'd love to see them in orange jumpsuits, but that ain't gonna happen. I just want these assholes OUT of power. I want power wrenched out of their hands, and the whole cabal sent packing. Let him live with the knowledge he was the most hated President in history. Just get them out. Maybe Putin will take them in.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
86. And they will be like W and Cheney...never able to walk on a street again
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:49 PM
Aug 2017

Or go to a show, or an event, or anywhere, cause we will give them the Bronx cheer.

Juliusseizure

(562 posts)
64. Where would you find an impartial jury?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:20 PM
Aug 2017

Seriously, that would be a risk, so assuming genuine intent here is to get an indictment, Mueller must think he has a strong enough case to persuade a member of the "silent" majority.

Enoki33

(1,588 posts)
49. I get a small degree of satisfaction in imaging the con man squirming in
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 04:55 PM
Aug 2017

frustration and the fear beginning to take control. He is going to react in angry and unstable ways.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
58. Grand Juries are not investigative. They are there to decide whether to indict.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:11 PM
Aug 2017

Seems like Mueller sees what he thinks is criminal conduct.

MiddleClass

(888 posts)
82. Not a lawyer, not even a paralegal
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:38 PM
Aug 2017

Last edited Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:54 AM - Edit history (1)

But somebody on MTP told Chuck, investigations, use whatever grand jury is already impaneled to subpoena documents. What one reason you would impanel your own would be ongoing multiple involved witnesses, subpoenas, indictments

Hopefully a legal whiz could help us out on this

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
85. There are several DU members who are Attornies. Maybe they can weigh in.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:43 PM
Aug 2017

I could be wrong on my earlier view, but that is all that I have seen such juries do.

More_Cowbell

(2,191 posts)
116. I'm no longer practicing but...
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:03 PM
Aug 2017

I think the new D.C. grand jury is for crimes committed there, in the District (including, of course, the White House). I think the F.B.I. *is* using the already-existing grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia for security-related crimes.

MiddleClass

(888 posts)
138. Thank you for narrowing them down, it helps perception a lot
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:57 AM
Aug 2017

We can only hope our assumptions turn into reality. But right now it is wishful thinking

FakeNoose

(32,777 posts)
104. Serious question: how do they assign a judge to this Grand Jury hearing?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:58 PM
Aug 2017

This is not my area of expertise and I don't know Washington DC courts either.

Do they select somebody who has experience in high level politics/behavior (I hope)?
This could all backfire if the wrong/too conservative judge gets assigned to this hearing.
We don't want Judge Ito either.

Just sayin'

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
105. I don't know.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 09:11 PM
Aug 2017

Ask an Attorney. There are a few on DU. The only Grand Juries that I know of indict people, but I live in the South.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
63. So....how would DU react if Mueller, in the end, finds no evidence other than circumstantial?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:19 PM
Aug 2017

And thus no charges are recommended?

And every GOP member backs up the other one, like cops?


I am worried that IF that were to happen, Trump and the GOP would use that, as BushCo. did with Dan Rather's blunder, as a way to whitewash everything else they have been doing. They can then crow loudly how this PROVES that there was, not collusion and malfeasance with Republicans, but collusion and conspiracy with Democrats and the "fake news media". (To bring down a great man) His approval will climb back up for those hopeful moderate Republicans and independents.

The GOP will feel like they have a whole new mandate to get even bolder in regards to other issues like net neutrality, and Social Security.

I suspect even the MSM networks will back off, maybe even apologize. And everything ELSE will be forgiven. His crude behavior, his lying, his tarnished reputation as a great businessman etc. Dropping out of the Paris accord. All his bone-head appointments with inexperienced true believers whose only credential Trump uses is their previous disdain for the department they now oversee.

Obviously this is the worst case scenerio. But we have to be prepared for it. And to not just give up the resistance, but remember that he still won unfairly using dark laundered money, Crosscheck, gerrymandering, and fake news about Hillary. But it will be so difficult to get the train back on the tracks and get any traction again.

Cosmocat

(14,574 posts)
98. "Fitzmas"
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:22 PM
Aug 2017

Was pretty much a big nothing ...

I want to think this is happening, there is too much there.

But, until it does ...

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
100. Not possible. So much obvious obstruction, collusion, lying, and we don't even have the tax returns
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:35 PM
Aug 2017

and we also don't know what Flynn has spilled. Someone's going down, probably at least Jr., Manafort and Flynn, if not Jared too. And at least one of them will flip for reduced sentence.

More_Cowbell

(2,191 posts)
118. He admitted to obstruction already
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:21 PM
Aug 2017

When he fired Comey for the Russia investigation. Obstruction of justice was the first article of impeachment against Nixon, I think.

New York's AG will get him on financial crimes, if nothing else. It won't be as good as finding him guilty of collysion or treason, but he'll still forfeit everything and I can live with that.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
125. Is "financial crimes" enough?
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 12:41 AM
Aug 2017

Hasn't he been found guilty in other financial crimes? His university fraud case comes to mind.

Just doesn't have the same bite as collusion with a foreign government to usurp democracy.

If its soley financial, he will shrug his shoulders and say he made a mistake, but will pay any restitution. But what also would happen is that his deplorables would be all "see see you f'in libtards, YOU WERE WRONG! Just some business faux pas, and like he said, trying to find ways to not have to pay the blood sucking go'mint of your earnings is the American way!

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
135. He's openly violated the emoluments clause
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 03:59 AM
Aug 2017

I'm not sure how he could be found totally innocent of all charges.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
72. Unless I do not understand the legal issue here (a distinct possibility) doesn't the Grand Jury
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 05:24 PM
Aug 2017

go on even when and if Mueller is fired?

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
92. Don Jr and Jared will probably be the first two witnesses they subpoena?
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 06:43 PM
Aug 2017

And they will have to think twice before they lie to a grand jury.

GopherGal

(2,010 posts)
99. If Mueller's strategy is to use indictments and plea bargains
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:34 PM
Aug 2017

If Mueller's strategy is to use indictments and plea bargains to work his way up, wouldn't this be a step he'd take?

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
111. And for this crew, it will end up a purgery trap.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 09:53 PM
Aug 2017

Lord knows not a one of 'em can tell the time of day without lying. Their arrogance will walk into this thinking they are the smartest guys in the room and try to BS their way through it.

MrPurple

(985 posts)
130. Could you imagine if tRump went under oath Ken Star style
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:46 AM
Aug 2017

In a situation where the counsel has evidence Trump doesn't think they have (like the stained dress, but something that is actually a crime). Film the hearing like they did Clinton with a camera with a tight close up on his face with the people asking the questions just appearing on the recording as disembodied voices.

If Trump was on camera for 20 minutes, there would be 40 lies.

aikoaiko

(34,184 posts)
103. I hope Trump doesn't slither away.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 08:47 PM
Aug 2017


Even if they. And get Trump, putting one of his family members in fed prison would destroy him.

Scruffy1

(3,257 posts)
119. There is another reason to impanel a Grand Jury.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:55 PM
Aug 2017

By going through the Grand Jury process you increase the right of discovery, which is very important in looking at financial transactions like money laundering and banking in generak. They are following the money. Of course you need a case to present to the grand jury, but I'm not holding my breath. this could take a long time as it's a very complex web of corruption involving top people who have the means to fight back.

sunonmars

(8,656 posts)
131. If Trump gets a choice of him or his kids go to jail...what does he choose?
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:55 AM
Aug 2017

himself of course, i have no doubt.

PatrickforO

(14,592 posts)
136. The noose of treason is tightening around this administration.
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:10 AM
Aug 2017

Treason.

I can't tell you how many times Dems, liberals, progressives or whatever you want to call us have been accused by the other side of hating this country, but this is beyond that.

What the Republican party has done, beginning on the night of Obama's inauguration, when they decided to not help govern this nation, but instead obstruct everything Obama and the Dems tried to get done. To my mind that was sedition at the least.

But when they colluded with a hostile foreign power to win an election, that is treason pure and simple. All our security guys that I've heard quoted or interviewed are saying how serious this is because it was not only hacking God knows how many voting machines and election rolls, but it was also a sophisticated psychological operation designed to sway voters in swing states and key communities in those states by planting propaganda.

This is FUCKING TREASON. It is ugly. It is disgusting. It is foul. And it MUST NOT STAND.

bucolic_frolic

(43,308 posts)
139. Prosecutors are working diligently
Sun Aug 6, 2017, 12:13 PM
Aug 2017

they know this can't be allowed to drag on even as long as Nixon and Watergate

We have not a swamp but a festering pustule that must be pricked at its peak

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