Hey CNN - an American missile hit an Iranian passenger plane with over 200 passengers

[malaise]

and killed everyone on board.

It didn't 'come close'.

[brush]

1. What does this mean?

[malaise]

3. They keep telling me the NK missile

'came close' to a French airline.

These fuckers want war - they love war. I want no part of war.

[B2G]

4. Well did it?

And if it did, is that not problematic?

[malaise]

5. As I said an American missile hit an Iranian passenger plane

and killed over 200 people - and it was not in American air space. Only brown people were killed so I guess it was no biggie.

[stevenleser]

7. That's whataboutism and does not excuse North Korean behavior.

Whataboutism is problematic because it prevents discussion of the issue at hand on its own merits.

[B2G]

8. It was a biggie.

But what does that have to do with NK firing off test missiles willy nilly with no warning whatsoever?

[malaise]

10. No one warned those Iranian people

Come to think of it who warned my friend and the other folks who were bombed to oblivion on that Cubana flight off Barbados?

How come M$Greedia never mentions those not near misses?

[leftynyc]

12. Did somebody warn the embassy staff

when they took our people hostage for over a year? We could do this all fucking day.

[choie]

23. Did anybody warn the Iranian people

when we helped overthrow Mossadeq? It's the U.S that gets away with its (our) illegal actions around the world time and time again. Malaise brings up a fair point.

[leftynyc]

26. It's a point

Many, many countries could make. That was MY point.

[stevenleser]

30. Wasn't that in the 1950s? Should we not do business with France because of Napoleon?

How far back is so far that it is ridiculous? I think 15 years is about it.

[stevenleser]

31. And Malaise point is not valid. It employs the logical fallacy of whataboutism

An attempt at a point made with a logical fallacy is never valid.

[choie]

38. oh really? 15 years?

I'm so glad you think that are war crimes against the Iraqi people can be included. Until our country recognizes its crimes, from the our inception to the current day, we continue to be guilty.

[stevenleser]

41. Yep, and that's stretching it.

Otherwise, the entire world will have reasons to be angry and retaliate against everyone else.

I am sure that's not the world you want, right?

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Well I sure feel a lot better about North Korean nukes, then.

Have you looked into disbanding the UN and replacing it with your wisdom? Seems like the world could use an endless spew of irrelevant whataboutism.

[left-of-center2012]

27. Saw this story on NHK (Japan) world news

They said the plane passed through the area 10 minutes before the N.K. missile went down near there.

[MyNameIsKhan]

2. what are you saying?

[Dreamer Tatum]

15. That the US needs to be nuked by N Korea nt.

[grossproffit]

39. Pretty much. Unbelievable!

[marybourg]

6. And if Iran had been the major

world power and had a huge nuclear arsenal, we would have been in big trouble

[stevenleser]

14. Not correct. We accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade

The Chinese tried to make a big deal of it but I wouldn't call it "big trouble"

[sarisataka]

9. Oh, ok then

I guess it is fine to lob missiles randomly into areas with heavy civilian traffic. Case closed.

Should I travel in Asia I will just book a route that doesn't cross the Sea of Japan.

[stevenleser]

18. And that's the problem with whataboutism and why its considered a logical fallacy

There are many ridiculous examples you can make both to try to attack behavior or justify behavior.

Consider if one of our children came to us and said "You can't discipline me because you also had bad behavior as a child".

Consider the recent horrific episode in Pakistan when a village elder ordered Boy A to perform a retaliation rape of a girl because her brother was accused of raping Boy A's relative. Should Boy A be excused because the boy of the other family raped?

These are all examples of why whataboutism is silly and problematic.

[oberliner]

11. That was thirty years ago

And the US paid compensation to the families of those killed (about a quarter of a million dollars per passenger).

[malaise]

16. They were still killed

You think money solves this shit. What about the drone killing?

Who gives the West the right to kill with impunity? The rest of us have way more to fear from you than you have to fear from us, including the lunatic in NK.

Don the Con is a significantly bigger threat to this planet than NK.

[oberliner]

17. Yes, they were

It was awful.

[Dreamer Tatum]

20. So, favor us. How many people is N Korea entitled to kill?

And by what method?

Just curious.

[NutmegYankee]

22. It was an accident.

A combination of factors caused the crew to fear they were getting attacked by a jet fighter. They never realized it was a commercial plane.

It didn't help that the plane ignored calls to them over commercial radio frequencies.

[choie]

24. Oh goody

I'm sure that made up for us murdering their relatives.

[rickford66]

19. The US missile was a surface to air meant to take out an aircraft.

And unfortunately it did. The NK missile was an ICBM aimed at some lat/long. Almost impossible to hit an aircraft.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. If we're going to make that analogy

No one has tested more bombs and missiles that the United States. No one is threatening the United States because we have the worlds largest nuclear arsenal, by far. We are not generally considered irrational for wanting and having nuclear weapons. Given the world we live in, wanting to join the nuclear "club" seems quite rational. That doesn't mean Kim isn't nuts or that we should want him to have nukes, but it is certainly Do as I say, not as I do.

[stevenleser]

29. Russia has threatened us several times verbally over the years

They threaten us physically by flying aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons toward our airspace until we scramble fighters and escort them away.

Speaking of Russia, one of the most damaging acts against nuclear non-proliferation was when Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. The pact that Russia signed with Ukraine, that the US and several others were party to that had Ukraine give their share of the former Soviet Unions nuclear arsenal to Russia required that Russia respect Ukraines borders as they were for perpetuity.

I think the fact that Russia then reneged on its promise and invaded anyway is probably the biggest lesson in the wrong direction in terms of discouraging proliferation, not anything the US has done.

[DefenseLawyer]

34. Yes that big nuclear war with the Soviets was a bitch

If not for "Duck and Cover!" who knows how bad it could have been.

[stevenleser]

35. Don't get all sarcastic just because your contention was proven wrong

Learn how to take being proven wrong like an adult. People might respect you for it.

[DefenseLawyer]

36. I was sarcastic because you're argument on the wonders of America's nuclear arsenal

was a lot of gung ho nonsense. I understand you are sad that we didn't bomb Moscow over Crimea, but your President may make your dreams come true in Korea after all.

[stevenleser]

37. Let me disabuse you of the notion that people can't see right through your distraction

It's obvious what your response was about.

You said no one threatens us, people in fact do threaten us as I pointed out and you didn't like being proven wrong.

That's what your sarcastic response was about and it was obvious.

[onethatcares]

25. So,

does anyone feel that we have to go to war with North Korea to prevent a war with North Korea.

I am tired of my country, the United States of America, being at war.

I'm tired of body bags and big navy ships, and who has the biggest balls.

I want my country to be "all that it can be" and take care of the poor, and sick in it.

I want my country to build schools, roads, hospitals and educate engineers and doctors and carpenters and I.T. people.

I am tired of war.

If donny wants to fight kim un, get dennis rodman to be ring announcer and let's go for it on a pay per view.

.

[stevenleser]

28. I'm generally not a fan of rogue states with crazy leaders having Nuclear tipped ICBMs.

Your Mileage May Vary

[oasis]

32. +1

[grossproffit]

40. Did someone turn the clock back to 1988 while I was at work?

[stevenleser]

42. I guess it's easier to do that than confront the difficult situation that is in front of us.

If you reduce every challenge to, "But the US is bad because X years ago..." then you don't have to make any difficult decisions at all.