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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBeing rich wrecks your soul. We used to know that.
By Charles Mathewes and Evan Sandsmark at the Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/being-rich-wrecks-your-soul-we-used-to-know-that/2017/07/28/7d3e2b90-5ab3-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.26549d6f1769
"SNIP.............
The idea that wealth is morally perilous has an impressive philosophical and religious pedigree. Ancient Stoic philosophers railed against greed and luxury, and Roman historians such as Tacitus lay many of the empires struggles at the feet of imperial avarice. Confucius lived an austere life. The Buddha famously left his opulent palace behind. And Jesus didnt exactly go easy on the rich, either think camels and needles, for starters.
The point is not necessarily that wealth is intrinsically and everywhere evil, but that it is dangerous that it should be eyed with caution and suspicion, and definitely not pursued as an end in itself; that great riches pose great risks to their owners; and that societies are right to stigmatize the storing up of untold wealth. Thats why Aristotle, for instance, argued that wealth should be sought only for the sake of living virtuously to manage a household, say, or to participate in the life of the polis. Here wealth is useful but not inherently good; indeed, Aristotle specifically warned that the accumulation of wealth for its own sake corrupts virtue instead of enabling it. For Hindus, working hard to earn money is a duty (dharma), but only when done through honest means and used for good ends. The function of money is not to satiate greed but to support oneself and ones family. The Koran, too, warns against hoarding money and enjoins Muslims to disperse it to the needy.
Some contemporary voices join this ancient chorus, perhaps none more enthusiastically than Pope Francis. Hes proclaimed that unless wealth is used for the good of society, and above all for the good of the poor, it is an instrument of corruption and death. And Francis lives what he teaches: Despite access to some of the sweetest real estate imaginable the palatial papal apartments are the sort of thing that President Trumps gold-plated extravagance is a parody of the pope bunks in a small suite in what is effectively the Vaticans hostel. In his official state visit to Washington, he pulled up to the White House in a Fiat so sensible that a denizen of Northwest D.C. would be almost embarrassed to drive it. When Francis entered the Jesuit order 59 years ago, he took a vow of poverty, and hes kept it.
According to many philosophies and faiths, then, wealth should serve only as a steppingstone to some further good and is always fraught with moral danger. We all used to recognize this; it was a commonplace. And this intuition, shared by various cultures across history, stands on firm empirical ground.
.............SNIP"
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)People forget some places the cost of living is double compared to others. If you were born and raised there it's hard.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)and have interconnectedness to be truly happy.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And I say that as someone who grew up w both. These blanket condemnations of people with any money are getting ridiculous. We really have to stop this bullsht
applegrove
(118,756 posts)forms of power.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Of it, some wallow and can't achieve a thing. To me, seeing both, it's very disconnected to the circumstances of birth.
Response to applegrove (Reply #4)
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applegrove
(118,756 posts)easy way out makes one happy.
Here is some like study:
http://www.denverpost.com/2014/07/02/happiness-requires-seeking-new-challenges/
Response to applegrove (Reply #33)
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applegrove
(118,756 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,159 posts)Reminds me of the children's story of "The Fisherman and the Flounder".
When my parents met, my father supported Adlai Stevenson and was a regular guy. When he started getting money, he changed.
My father became more authoritarian and more concerned about his social status as his doctor's practice developed.
His choice of cars, his choice of fancy and expensive hotels (The Breakers in Palm Beach), joining a restrictive private country club, his choice where he wanted me to attend college. He would have chosen my husband if allowed. (I'm not off-base here. He called my college against my protestations to tell them to move the roommate they had assigned to live with me, a girl from Vietnam.)
It got to the point where I became a liability to his status in his private golf club because I was not Town & Country material or conservative enough.
I suppose he had the last laugh when he died: he had more than $1.5 million in assets and disinherited me and my two siblings. Instead he gave $35,000 to the neighbor across the street and about $1 million to four charities.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)wingers all think they are uniquely brilliant and deserving of much luck, and Don't see it as luck. I don't think they are too happy.
uponit7771
(90,356 posts)... something someone wants ... they're not happy being that damn stupid
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And - this is just my subjective interpretation, you can take it with as many grains of salt as you wish - his ultimate analysis was that fear and desire are two sides of the same attachment coin, and result in suffering, at least as long as one misunderstands the fundamentals of the situation...
namely, "there's nothing you can hold for very long"
Also his wealth and sequestration from knowledge of sickness, old age and death was, like so many things in myth/religion, an allegory or metaphor imho.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)to be so exceptionally complicated because it was so novel in so many ways. I could not follow it when I read up on it. Thanks for explaining the difference.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I have my interpretation of some of the core ideas, but there's a lot there.
I would more label myself a Taoist than anything else, in that to my mind one only starts to understand Lao Tsu by acknowledging that, like Quantum Mechanics or Time, no one really understands Lao Tsu.
And like all other big faiths or belief systems, I think there's a lot of filigree and buildup and ritual and other stuff which some people ascribe to which may or may not be useful to getting at the core ideas.
I think some of the ideas of Buddhism influenced early Christianity- compassion, seeing yourself in every consciousness, etc. Although clearly neither Christianity nor Buddhism have a monopoly on those ideas.
One thing that I think is sometimes confusing to adherents of Western belief systems, is that Buddhism isn't so much a worship of God or Gods (some strains clearly are, more than others) as it is an analysis of the "problem" of existence and/or suffering and a prescription for the "cure".
applegrove
(118,756 posts)me off. On the whole I did not find it relaxing or peaceful for those reasons. All my fault.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)moondust
(20,002 posts)Watch out for that type, especially if they're spotted hanging around the White House.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)Being little in the grand scope of things reminds us of the joys of childhood.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I had a job one summer at a mini mart in the suburbs, near a train station. One of the things I remember most about that summer was watching the progression of people across the course of the day.
The first people to come in would be, generally, Mexican guys with their gardening trucks (you know, the "bad hombres" Trump wants to deport), early in the morning. They would come in, invariably super-fucking friendly, laughing, buy a 6 pack, totally cheerful...
over the course of the day the customer base would change until at 4-5 pm the dudes in suits would start getting off the train from their jobs in finance or what-have-you, downtown. Before angrily peeling out of the parking lot across the street in their beemers, they would come into the minimart, bark some nasty shit at me, scowl, act pissed off, huff, puff, stomp around, complain about the price of a pack of gum, whatever. They were, more often than not, MISERBALE.
Anecdote, to be sure, but it was educational.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)when they feel interconnected and authentic. Maybe having unlimited things makes one feel unauthentic?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Ive known happy rich people, but often theyre people who love what they do, have a dream and pursue it, etc.
I think people get into trouble when they live according to someone else's plan,and find that the "right" job, spouse, address or bank account balance doesnt actually make them happy.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)They weren't any happier than the people who lived in our edge of the ghetto neighborhood. He actually took an inventory of the tenants vs people on our block and realized it was random but also ... a frame of mind or choice.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)in this, but it's not only a philosophically sound position it's historical. I have my own stories of both sides of the equation which I won't bore people with but your post certainly holds true in my experience.
I think the idea of wealth could be narrowed down to having a magnitude of property that one person or family unit could not use in a lifetime, or any amount of wealth that changes one's perspective on life; posessions shouldn't make a difference. Outside of that it could be a matter of conscience. I have an excessively wealthy acquaintance who is quite resposible and empathetic, I also know some pretty selfish middle class nut cases.
There are exceptions but in a broad sense, wealth, however you define it has some major drawbacks and responsibilities.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)I don't think you should ever judge people on anything but their actions if you have to judge. I'm a little uncomfortable with parts. But on the whole I think it is an important enough idea that I did the OP.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)is a good thing.
DFW
(54,434 posts)Stereotypes fail. Period.
I know some rich people who are totally corrupt. What Texan doesn't?
I also know some who are totally unaffected by their wealth, unimpressed by it, and give large portions of theirs away. For that matter, I know some people who have never made any money at all, and all they do is dream of ways they can take it away from other people.
Generalizations like this are somewhere between boring and dangerous. I know guys both in Europe and in the USA for whom their wealth is nothing more than keeping score. They have a talent for making money like some have a talent for making violins. They live comfortably, not ostentatiously, and give much, if not most, of what they made away--charity, cancer research, funds for homeless children, whatever. If you are beholden by your wealth, beware. If you are unimpressed by it, bravo.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)brooklynite
(94,698 posts)...my wife wife and I are "rich" by any standard DU would likely accept, and it hasn't changed our political or moral philosphy.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)guess. And obviously grounded still.
kimbutgar
(21,177 posts)It's all about them and their self interests. They will stab in the back anyone who crosses them.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Is a Christian nation as they claim, then wouldn't the rich be rushing to get rid of the extra money ? The camel can't get through the eye of a needle. The rich would be terrified they would not get into heaven and so would give it away as Jesus said.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)applegrove
(118,756 posts)course many people don't pretend they deserve every penny. And know they are lucky. But i would think with the likes of Donald Trump running around people would be more open to ancient wisdom that there are potential pitfalls to wealth.
Response to applegrove (Reply #30)
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applegrove
(118,756 posts)She's always been about public service and now is all about charity.
Response to applegrove (Reply #36)
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applegrove
(118,756 posts)I think she would have been a stellar President. Now she'll be a stellar retired politician. I look forward to the time when the election is far enough behind her that she can tell it like it is.
Rhiannon12866
(205,839 posts)And she was also my senator, and a good one. I think that qualifies as "public service!" Certainly more than selling your name for money. Oh well...
byronius
(7,400 posts)As we are.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)That is decidedly not just a rich people problem in this country.
applegrove
(118,756 posts)So sure it applies there too.