Where are the conservatives of principle?

[guillaumeb]

Last edited Mon Jul 24, 2017, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I ask this because I cannot find any GOP politicians who will stand up to Trump and his foolishness.

I cannot find any GOP politicians who will actually stand for the ideals that they claim as motivation.

I cannot find any conservative faith leaders who will disavow Trump and his morality.

I cannot find a George H. W. Bush to denounce Trump's supply-side economic plan as voodoo economics. Of course we all remember how the elder Bush abandoned THAT criticism after Reagan picked him to run as Vice-President. So much for Bush's claim to integrity.

Reading about the rise of Adolf Hitler, one thing that stands out is the fact that Germans failed to denounce Hitler or his tactics. And that lack of denunciation emboldened Hitler to become increasingly dictatorial and aggressive.

[gratuitous]

1. As rare as double rainbows

And they last about as long. If you look thoroughly enough, you'll see some mild criticism of the Trump administration from the Republican side of the aisle every week or so. But it's almost always a different name attached to the criticism, and it's often because Trump isn't being cruel or heartless enough. There is nobody on the Republican side willing to step out consistently and call down the administration, because they know their political future would be timed with a stop watch if they did.

[guillaumeb]

5. Agreed.

And this mild criticism is not personal criticism of Trump or his tactics, it is tactical criticism of narrowly specific aspects of his policies.

As you said, the GOP healthcare bill has been criticized as being insufficiently vicious by people like Paul and Cruz.

An entire party of good Germans who will watch silently as the wall is built and as the camps are filled, and the 1% among them will profit from both.

[csziggy]

2. The republicans have no moral character left

They have sold their souls for power and money.

On AM Joy today she asked a Republican (sorry, didn't make note of his name) what would convince Republicans in Congress that Trump and his campaign had colluded with Russia (I think that was the question). His response - "we'll have to wait until our base is convinced."

Republicans will NOT turn against Trump if there is any chance it might cost them the next election. They do not care about the country, they do not really care about the voters, they just want to retain the power they have finally gotten. It doesn't matter if it took the actions of a despot colluding with a foreign power to get them there - they will hang on to that power. They don't care if their policies destroy the country they are supposed to be governing - they have power and they by gawd will fucking hold on to it.

Republicans see Trump as the source of their power so they will support him to the bitter end. As for anyone who does not support them and Trump to that end, they don't care. They would be happy to take away our voices, our votes, our lives, and to lock us all up.

[guillaumeb]

7. I feel and fear that you are correct.

They are only concerned with power, and the money that will come to them as a function of their exercising that power.

The GOP is not really a governing party because they have no real plan for anything other than winning and further enriching their contributors.

[RKP5637]

41. If necessary, they will finagle calling for martial law and put troops on the street to

maintain their power grip. We've seen this in countries before and where it led. Far too many Americans still do not grasp IMO what is going on. And Brownshirts are more than willing to line up if it comes to that.

[guillaumeb]

48. I do not feel that it is a likely scenario,

but a President Trump was not on my list of likely scenarios either.

[JNelson6563]

3. They are with the unicorns

and the perfect liberal candidates.

[guillaumeb]

6. Are the perfect liberal candidates riding the unicorns?

Nice picture under your line.

[yardwork]

11. Thank you for making this point on this thread.

The reason our democracy is in peril is not just because the Republicans have no moral imperative. We are on the brink of fascism also because too many progressives have been brainwashed into all or nothing thinking. Either Democratic leaders are morally perfect or they're just as bad as the Republicans. That thinking is destroying our country.

As Democrats, we need to get together.

[spanone]

4. oxymoran

[guillaumeb]

8. At this point, I would say yes. eom

[DetlefK]

9. That answer is easy. The Tea Party ate them.

- Some lost primaries to Tea Party candidates.

- Some moved far to the right out of fear of losing primaries to Tea Party candidates.



Fun Fact: The establishment-politicians who brought Hitler to power thought he would be their puppet and they could keep his violent extremism (Hitler spent time in prison for trying to start an armed rebellion against the government) and hostility towards democratic institutions under control.

[guillaumeb]

10. Great point about Hitler.

As to the Tea Party, we must also remember that the Tea Party was a creature of Americans for Prosperity. That is to say, the 3 Koch brothers and their billionaire allies. This created group was aided by heavy corporate media coverage that made it seem like a wave of protest was sweeping the country.

And that same corporate media generally underreports progressive protests to minimize the impact.

[rock]

12. Republicans have found only one principle that works for them

Hypocrisy. It solves their problems of no morals, no ethics, and no honesty all in one fell swoop.

[guillaumeb]

15. My feeling is that principal is "winning no matter the cost".

The winning justifies all else.

[rock]

18. Very good!

[smirkymonkey]

13. There is no such thing. What ever happened to the concept of public service?

Because when you are a politician, that is what you are, or should be - a public servant. Your main concern should be to represent the people and THEIR best interests, not your own. Most of these bastards only care about their egos, their bank accounts, power, prestige and money. It's disgusting what a cesspool the GOP has become.

[guillaumeb]

16. If money is seen as speech,

then free speech demands a free flow of money from billionaires to politicians of both parties.

And low taxation rates on the super rich allows them to accumulate far more than was possible in the 1950s.

[workinclasszero]

14. An expired species

See: President Dwight David Eisenhower.

Last known member of the tribe.

[guillaumeb]

17. I would add Charles Percy and Everett Dirksen from Illinois.

It was GOP Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert who codified the idea of only depending on GOP votes to pass any legislation. He molested the idea of bi-partisanship almost as much as he molested his young students.

[Maeve]

19. the what of what? eom

[guillaumeb]

22. Did you think this was a parody?

Or from The Onion?

[Maeve]

44. I grew up in a conservative household

that believed in principles of honor, prudence, thrift and fairness. Nothing like the current GOP, at all, at all.
And that's how I found myself on the political left.

[DFW]

20. You'll never find them if you continue to subscribe to their favorite fallacy

Republicans are NOT conservative!!!!!!!!!!! They hijack the term and use it to describe themselves, but so what? If you wade into the ocean, will you grow gills and become a fish?

E.G.--Me. Same woman for 43 years. Worked for the same outfit for 42 years. No addictive drugs, including alcohol, nicotine or religion. No debts. Two grown, mature children who we have brought up to be responsible and earn their own living. Risk averse, and take major decisions only after careful deliberation and thought.

In other words, I'M conservative. But I sure as hell am no right-wing hate-filled Republican. They are not fish with gills, and they are NOT conservative.

[ananda]

21. Nowhere.

A principled conservative is an oxymoron,
two mutually exclusive ideas.

Trying to find one would be an exercise in futility.

[guillaumeb]

23. Speaking of morons, oxy and non-oxy,

it is amazing how the conservative Trump supporters are willing to overlook the fact that Trump is a lying con man as long as he signs the bills that they manage to pass.

[hatrack]

24. Where are the virgin hookers? The Arctic palm trees? The underwater airports?

Same difference.

[guillaumeb]

25. At some point in the near future, one might find palm trees in the Arctic. eom

[sharedvalues]

26. There are no GOP ideas. GOP driven by Koch money.

The ideas are just a way to provide cover to GOP billionaire donors.

Republicans with ideals include Evan McMullin and Rick Wilson and Joe Scarborough.
Jim Jeffords was one of the last moderate Republicans. He saw the writing on the wall and realized the Democratic party best fit his long held ideas. Same really with David Souter. I am crossing my fingers that John Roberts may have figured out the same and may be repudiating the Koch/Federalist views that he was long immersed in.

[guillaumeb]

27. John Roberts change his spots?

One hopes that you are correct, but a bet on that would be an extreme long shot.

ALEC is the real brains of the GOP, and the billionaires own ALEC.

[sharedvalues]

29. Yup. And Heritage and Cato - also owned by GOP billionaires

[guillaumeb]

34. The Heritage Foundation started out as.....

The Koch Foundation.

[sharedvalues]

38. Cato is formerly Koch foundation.

Heritage is the crazy place that Jim DeMint turned into an idea factory for hurting poor people.

The president's budget this year came right from Heritage. As in, it was literally printed by Heritage in Jan.

[guillaumeb]

47. Thanks for the correction.

I knew it was one of them.

[sharedvalues]

75. Not that it matters much. Heritage is worse than Cato/Koch today - wants to hurt poor people more.

[sharedvalues]

33. On Roberts: several recent opinions have been 6-3

With Alito, Thomas, and Gorsuch dissenting.
(Alito: climate change denier. Thomas: purchased by Koches through his wife. Gorsuch: illegitimate).

That means Roberts and Kennedy have been with the moderates and patriotic Americans on the court.

There's about to be a SCOTUS battle. Over pardons and perhaps Presidential indictments. As well as gerrymandering and voter rights. We better hope Roberts is on the side of America.

[guillaumeb]

35. And we had better hope that Justice Kennedy does not retire and allow Trump to appoint Scalia.3 eom

[sharedvalues]

28. GOP has no ideals, see David Frum.

David Frum was fired by a GOP think tank for daring to point out that Obamacare was really a conservative bill.

He was FIRED

That is a clear sign that the GOP is not a party of ideas. It is a party of ideology to justify its donors' desires.

In 2017 if you are a GOP in Washington it's because you have already shown willingness to reject all ideas not paid for by GOP billionaire donors. Any GOP who had their own ideas or their own thinking has already been fired or run out. Leaving only the Koch-purchased to remain.

[guillaumeb]

31. This is a recurrent theme in the responses, and in my opinion is 100% correct.

The GOP is driven by donor money.

[Blaukraut]

30. Dead. For at least 50 years or so. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. Evan McMullin comes closest in the "politician" category, except he's never held elcted office...

...though he did get a half million votes for President i 2016. Other than him you can find a handful of Republican ex-elected politicians and a few Republican politicos like Steve Schmidt and perhaps a couple of pundits. Damn slim pickings.

[Lebam in LA]

36. Statesmen no longer exist

[RKP5637]

37. They were kicked out with the moderates or left. This new party still called the GOP should

really be renamed. They do not support the republican true conservative principles of old. The new GOP party is about bringing down the US democracy, it, just, could, not, be any more obvious!

[sharedvalues]

40. The true conservatives of old are now Democrats.

Nelson Rockefeller
MacGeorge Bundy
Dwight Eisenhower
Allan Dulles
Henry Stimson
Even Gerald Ford and George HW Bush

They would probably all be Democrats if coming of age today.

[RKP5637]

42. Quite true! The GOP of today is an invasive force/regime with a mission to take down the democracy

IMO.

[Quanta]

39. Jeb did earlier today...but ya know what?

Fuck 'em. It's too late now. They made their beds...I hope they're able to get comfy. It ain't gonna be pretty, but apparently, as a nation we have to get this out of our system.

[Akamai]

43. They are getting their pockets filled by billionaires. Nothing to see, move along, move along!

[Vogon_Glory]

45. Where are they? Taking the long dirt nap n/t

[RandomAccess]

46. Here are the ones I appreciate

Steve Schmidt, Jennifer Rubin, Ana Navarro, David Frum, Rick Stevens, and now and then even old George Wills. I think there are one or two I'm overlooking, but these folks give me a little hope.

[Greywing]

49. I appreciate Nicole Wallace these days

I think she is genuinely horrified with what passes for the GOP now.

[RandomAccess]

70. YES!! See?

I said there were one or two i was forgetting. Thanks.

[BigDemVoter]

50. The 2 groups are mutually exclusive. There aren't any.

[guillaumeb]

51. It does seem that way sometimes.

What is politically expedient and what serves to hold power seem to be the two main principles.

[DeminPennswoods]

52. You can find them in the Unicorn aisle

nt

[boston bean]

53. Oxymoran alert!!!

[guillaumeb]

56. Would they be classified as an endangered species? eom

[JHan]

54. It's all about power and they're eager to enjoy their orgy of revanchism..

Not caring which institutions are destroyed in the process - in fact, they're happy with that outcome because they're anti-statist.

They put ideology above principle, above sense, above sane governance.

On Conservative boards/sites I've visited, they hate middle of the road, centrist types who are reasonable - They'd rather a Ted Cruz than a McCain, a Rand Paul rather than Romney. And they understand this is war, and our institutions are just collateral damage.

[guillaumeb]

57. Agreed, especially about the conservative boards.

But I am hopeful that these conservative posters are a tiny fringe fighting their virtual war from the safety of their rooms.

[JHan]

58. not so sure.. the ideological wing taps into certain types of voters:

the gun nuts and the fundamentalists .

[guillaumeb]

61. True, it does. But if polling can be trusted, the positive numbers for the ACA versus Trumpcare

are a sign that people are seeing through the GOP rhetoric.

And unlike the Tea Party, the protesters who are keeping the GOP on the run are not paid by the Koch brothers.

[JHan]

69. True but there's something there that is stubborn and unpleasant.

we have to grapple with as well...this nails it..

Unspeakable Realities Block Universal Health Coverage In America

[guillaumeb]

73. An excellent link.

From your link:

Why are economically struggling blue collar voters rejecting a party that offers to expand public safety net programs? The reality is that the bulk of needy white voters are not interested in the public safety net. They want to restore their access to an older safety net, one much more generous, dignified, and stable than the public system – the one most well-employed voters still enjoy.

[unblock]

55. They became independents and democrats years ago

[guillaumeb]

59. That does seem to be true, even at the state level in many instances.

here in Illinois, the Governor, a billionaire who campaigned as a social moderate, has fired his advisers and replaced them with propagandists from a Koch funded advocacy group (posing as a research organization) called the Illinois Policy Institute.

[hunter]

60. Most died in the Nixon era.

The Ronald Reagan tool masters killed the rest.

[guillaumeb]

63. And Reagan himself was a tool of his masters. eom

[hunter]

65. Yep. I witnessed it myself.

Reagan was in town, his second term, and I saw a very confused old man who didn't know where the hell he was or what he was doing there.

For a moment his acting skills kicked in, he read his lines with some charm, and that's what we saw on TV, heard on radio, and was reported in the local newspapers.



A large part of my faith in the U.S.A. died that day.

[guillaumeb]

71. You have seized on the key tp Reagan's success.

You said:

that's what we saw on TV, heard on radio, and was reported in the local newspapers.

The corporate media only reported what served corporate interests. The Iran-Contra scandal was deliberately minimized, as was the selling drugs to finance secret wars scandal, and Reagan was framed as a principled wise statesman.

[lib-ruhl]

62. Republicans are betting on a bad hand of poker.....

Their all in......letting it ride!

[guillaumeb]

64. Welcome to DU.

A really bad hand that they cannot all get behind. Now if Mueller can frighten Trump a bit more............

[edhopper]

66. It's because we keep calling them conservatives

Last edited Tue Jul 25, 2017, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Would you ask, "where are the fascists of principle?"

Because that is what the GOP is.

[guillaumeb]

72. So it is solely the framing?

Allowing them to confuse some voters?

[edhopper]

74. It's not calling them out

for what they are.

[MountCleaners]

67. Occasionally you get something like this..

It's a classic, I go back and read it from time to time.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441319/donald-trump-alt-right-internet-abuse-never-trump-movement

The right has been cowardly when it comes to outright FASCISTS, of course most of them are gutless toward Trump.

[Turbineguy]

68. We're in the 1930's Germany

only for no good reason.

[tazkcmo]

76. In a fairy tale. n/t

[Afromania]

77. oxymoron.......... does not compute...... *tilt*

[spooky3]

78. Collins and Murkowski did the right thing on the debate vote.

[guillaumeb]

84. I remember how much was made of Collins being a supposed "moderate" during

the ACA debate, but when McConnell needed her vote he had it.

[spanone]

79. there. are. none. zip. nada. ziltch....zero

[LonePirate]

80. The only principles they have are to enrich themselves and their big donors.

Seems to me they continue to act consistently with those principles.

[guillaumeb]

85. Very true. eom

[Dem2]

81. What's that?

[regnaD kciN]

82. All of them are six feet under...

...since, as far as I can tell, they've all been dead since the 1980s.

[guillaumeb]

86. Dead, retired, or Tea Partied out.

Remember that money is speech.

[Saboburns]

83. Trump is what the Republican party is all about!

Trump is what the Republican party is all about!

Donald Trump is the Perfect Republican. There is a reason he has 85% approval among Republicans. What you see in Donald Trump is the Republican party. And the Republican party will continue to get more vulgar, more in your face and more confrontational. I am afraid most of us on here do not understand what this country is headed for, the GOP will NEVER turn on Donald. NEVER. No matter what. They want more Donald Trump, not less.

Until we can come to grips with this fact, we haven't got a chance.

Its not Russian interference, its not us running a bad candidate, its nothing but this: Thr Republican party has, since 1980, courted and won every idiot, racist, misogynist, homophobe, Islamophobe, miscreant, fuck up, and loser to go along with the rich white folk who have always been there for them.

What we didnt know was just how many of those type people were in this country.

Mark my words....Republicans will continue to get more Republican, not less Republican, as they have for 40 years. The war for this nation has only just begun.

It will become much, much worse.

[guillaumeb]

87. A harsh assessment, but I can understand why you feel that way.

To me, and to others, it started with the Buckley v. Valeo decision that decided that money was speech. It opened the doors for the flood of billionaire money that was built on the fortunes that were enabled by very low marginal tax rates.

[Orsino]

88. Not in American politics.

The modern GOP demands fealty to money, not to people or the Constititution.

[guillaumeb]

91. And money is speech. So only money can speak. eom

[Blue_Tires]

89. It's a deal with the devil...

they're happy to play nice and prop up Trump as long as they get to carte blanche to cram their regressive agenda through...

The GOP will only abandon Trump when they have absolute proof that their support of Trump will cost them a significant amount of congresional seats and not before...

[guillaumeb]

90. Amen to that.

Trump is the tool and the distraction. If the tool breaks it will be replaced.