General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill you ever be able to trust Republicans again?
Do you look at your friends and relatives differently if they still support Donald Trump?
Would you ever want to be in a foxhole with them?
Does it feel like betrayal?
Are you able to accept their argument that it is just "politics"?
spanone
(135,874 posts)kentuck
(111,110 posts)But there was a time when the Parties worked together and came to some agreement. We never thought they were illegitimate agreements. There was some element of trust, I think?
Freddie
(9,273 posts)In the 60's.
spanone
(135,874 posts)for reasons that went way beyond policy i have lost all respect for them.
and for their hijacking of the scotus, doubt i can ever forgive them.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)kentuck
(111,110 posts)Or your spouse, if he or she was Republican?
Squinch
(51,007 posts)Our family had company that did construction work in NYC up until the 90's. Our father wouldn't even subcontract with a Trump(R) contractor because he knew what a crook Trump(R) was.
And now my brother puts that same crook into the presidency of my country. I'm learning, now that it is in danger, just how much our Democracy and the American Democratic experiment does mean to me, sappy as that sounds.
And my asshole brother has helped to destroy it. And I do mean destroy it because we will never be the same again no matter what happens.
Nope. Never look at him the same again. At best I'll always see my "big brother" as an easily duped tool from now on. But I can't overlook the bigotry and sexism that had to be in him to pull that lever, either. He's not who I thought he was.
Vogon_Glory
(9,129 posts)I see the typical Republican as a credulous Charlie Brown unable to see that Lucy is going to take the football away from him yet again.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)my Republican relatives. "Trust" wasn't part of the relationship ("trust" them to do what, send Christmas cards?).
My parents were Democrats.
Not sure where you're coming from, with this topic.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)My oldest Republican sister, is resentful because I wouldn't buy insurance from her. I prefer my relatives that come from a place of love and charity and can be genuine with me, not always just comparing money and successes.
lpbk2713
(42,766 posts)I had not thought about politics much until Nixon came along. Now it seems like every day there's a new reason to not trust those thieves and liars and to justify my feelings toward all of them.
lefthandedskyhook
(965 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)dubyadiprecession
(5,722 posts)presidency (popular and electoral vote) for eight years. Now they have loony ol' trump, whose trying to undo President Obama's work, whether it's good or bad.
I don't trust people who are blind with rage, many republican's are truly evil!
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)PLEASE Don't say "Reagan" or any Bush or McCain or even One (he planned the Bay of Pigs).
NRaleighLiberal
(60,019 posts)unblock
(52,317 posts)I trust them to lie, commit crimes, and to obstruct justice and equity and science and education and reason and fairness.
GoCubsGo
(32,092 posts)Which I haven't And, that includes relatives. I don't look at them differently, because the few republicans in my family are ignorant kooks and/or congenital lying racists--just like the vast majority of what is left to that party. Nothing has changed to make me see them any differently than I already had. I have long found it impossible to be friends with republicans, so they don't exist.
As to the other questions, no I would not want to be in a foxhole with them. But, I don't feel betrayed, because I already knew what I was getting with them. I already know that the "just politics" argument is bullshit, because I have long seen what is actually the case.
eShirl
(18,503 posts)TEB
(12,890 posts)Angry pissed off I think you voted for moron ,You are sharp as bag of hammers. guys I work with is already crying over how they feels con fucked em. Their middle aged white dudes like me , they used to ask me how I could vote democrat.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)Igel
(35,356 posts)When I was a kid I thought these folk were evil. Then they saw the conditions there and turned on the Soviet Union. By then I realized that my thinking was really quite simplistic. I mostly grew out of that between 3rd and 4th grades.
Delusion =/= evil. That's a category error.
One act or activity =/= a person's character. That's a fundamental attribution error, at least most of the time. Even if that "act" is something that has more than momentary duration. Just as "Republicans" aren't a monolithic group, so individual humans aren't always consistent in their beliefs and actions.
Logic recognizes that the errors can be there and can mitigate their effects on our attitudes.
Emotion does not, and revels in the logical errors because emotion is not logical.
Emotion can provide the motivation for logic: For science, to build better bridges, find new medicines, uncover the causes of natural phenomena that allow us better living or allow the discoverer better income.
Emotion can also provide the motivation for burying logic--to deny evidence in order to justify a desired course of action or to justify a kinsman who did something wrong, to solidify group boundaries and defend one's team because group support is often, esp. in poor conditions, required for survival and urgently maintained even when "survival" is just perceived and not real. Think of it as vicarious self-protection.
What works for Democrats in this regard works for Republicans just as well. We're all people.
Not sure I'd want to be a in foxhole with Trump supporters. Or Clinton or Sanders supporters. There's the whole "I don't really want to be in a foxhole" thing going on.
I have different views on betrayal. Should they feel betrayed by you? After all, non-agreement on an issue or candidate really is a two-way street. By definition.
If I were in a foxhole with them and had time, instead of arguing with them over whose team is superior, the one you're on with all the good and just people, or the hateful and imbecilic losers that your friends and relatives have obviously sided with (put it that way and you've just said, "I want to feel superior and humiliate you, making sure that you're back's up and you're ready for duke it out, because I'm really interested in showing how good I am and insulting you until you convert, heathen!" . If you don't think that works, check out your reaction to my first paragraph above. Experience a put down, and emotions and self-defense win out over the actual propositions. You can't reason with those who feel like you're the foe and they need to defend themselves. So your first task is to de-foe yourself, not bomb Hiroshima.
I'd probably resort to the data elicitation techniques I learned to try to find out what their views and underlying structure of their views are, plus why they hold their views. While eliciting data, you can't cop an attitude or correct the subject. Moreover, it's often a good thing to distract them so they can't sort out what, exactly, you're asking about--otherwise they'll fall back on tried-and-true defensive positions and talking points. I learned this for language-data collection, and, yes, there are talking points (it's called "the grammar you learned in school" . Your center has to be on them and the data, not yourself, otherwise not only do you run afoul of the observer's paradox, but your data starts to reflect your views to a much greater extent than required. It means you keep yourself, your facial expression and your tone of voice, even your choice of words, under control to achieve the goal of collecting data.
Moreover, since it makes them aware very explicitly of what their views are, possibly for the first time, and since you're not being combative, sometimes they also learn something about themselves. They may also stop seeing you as somebody they can talk to. Then you wind up with communication instead of two people yelling at the same walls, either in tandem or turn-taking.
The danger with this is that seldom does it lead to conversion. It leads to understanding and empathy, which has the rather pathetic result that group boundaries tend to become a bit less well defined and can even re-form in an inclusive manner.
trof
(54,256 posts)standingtall
(2,787 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)
No I don't want them in a foxhole with me. Yes it feels like a betrayal. No I don't accept their argument that it's just politics at it's core their support for Trump was and is about bigotry. I never did trust republicans.
mountain grammy
(26,649 posts)oops, missed the first one.. NO, haven't trusted them much since Nixon.
retread
(3,763 posts)The Scorpion and the Frog
A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."
The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
lefthandedskyhook
(965 posts)I have not trusted them
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,837 posts)I never did trust those fuckers.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)lib-ruhl
(127 posts)supporter of trump with all that has happened. I don't care if it's family or friends, I have distanced myself from them.
There is no defending a compulsive liar.
ananda
(28,876 posts).. ever since 1980 when Reagan took office.
Doreen
(11,686 posts)MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)Maybe you will never trust Republicans again but there is no point trying to box yourself into a corner in advance. In other words, if this government is going to actually function, somebody is going to need to trust some Republicans at least a little bit.
If there are Republicans who have lost trustworthiness then don't trust them unless/until they earn it back. No need to extrapolate.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,192 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)I can trust Republicans to never trust a scientific fact. a moral imperative or anything that benefits the collective welfare for people who are suffering.
Flaleftist
(3,473 posts)There was a time when I could at least have some respect for people who supported them. I can't have an iota of respect for anyone who supports Trump.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,699 posts)bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)The professional ones (POLITICIANS and LOBBYISTS) are just in it for the money (like any criminal gang); the regular ones have principles they value and are just misguided or heavily influenced by family background.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)yet they pimp for a party that is misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic, anti- poor, anti-worker, anti-science, pro-torture - WTF kind of principles can any repuke have???
bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)Yankee fans. They probably last looked at politics deeply in college if at all. But they have an orientation toward tradition (and most are upper middle class so have no conception of the world as it is).
Skittles
(153,193 posts)the repuke sickness is in our face daily
if you call yourself a repuke now, you OWN their garbage
Initech
(100,102 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)Because i will have to play nice with them for my mothers sake
If it wasnt for my mom i would not be going at all.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)Never will.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Gothmog
(145,555 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)That dog don't hunt. Just sayin.