Whoaa so now we learn there were actual spies in the don jr meeting

[drray23]

it turns out that a lobbyist who is a former Russian counter intelligence officer ( not sure there is such a thing as former...) and another unidentified man billed as a translator.

this changes everything. It's hard to make the case that it was not collusion..

[NCTraveler]

1. What was offered in return?

That's the question and will be difficult to prove. It's going to have to be a direct connection.

[drray23]

4. Because these losers are held to a different standard.

I am a senior scientist for the department of energy. each time I come back from an overseas trip I get to sit with a doe counterintelligence officer for debrief. I can't take my own phone or laptop. I'm given a travel laptop that is wiped upon return to the us. If I so much told the Ci officer anything deemed inaccurate I would have some explaining to do.
Meanwhile, Jared goes around lying, keeps having to redo his sf86 and everything is ok.. this really pisses me off.

[Moostache]

9. IOIYAAR....plain and simple...

You simply have the wrong political leanings...so you must be rigidly controlled and monitored; however, the rules cease to apply as soon as you put on that shiny red "R"...

[NCTraveler]

10. They held no government position. You did.

I was simply talking about the word collusion. That's pretty clear. The omission of meetings is a different scenario.

People running for office should be able to use their own phones and laptops. Not sure why you added that.

The sf86 is a real issue. Same with investigating if anything was offered in return. I don't think we should compare apples and oranges considering what the dirt that is actually surfacing.

[drray23]

13. That's regulation.

You can not use your laptop/phone when you travel overseas on official business. They instead give you secure laptops/phones for the trip. The idea is that the devices could get compromised and then when you are back and connect to the wifi at work with those same devices it's a possible security breach.

[NCTraveler]

14. Again, apples and oranges.

I get what you were saying.

[Yonnie3]

12. An acquaintance ranted about these interviews

He traveled all over the world as a senior scientist at NCAR. He pointed out that the Russian scientist with whom he was collaborating was able to come in and out of the country with drives containing his data, but my acquaintance couldn't carry data. The very same data! He also got interviewed after the scientist visited him in the US.

My acquaintance has retired. I'm not sure of the viability of employment in atmospheric research in the current administration.

[SHRED]

16. I thought the emails spelled that out?

[NCTraveler]

22. I think a lot of things are spelling that out.

I think the emails are horrible when it comes to optics. Can you show me where something is offered in return? I truly might have missed it.

Is this them?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html

[cyclonefence]

26. Removal of Obama's sanctions

hence the reference to Russian adoptions, which Don Jr. is too stupid to know were halted in response to the sanctions.

[Yonnie3]

2. I've used up all my "you just can't make this crap up"s for my lifetime ages ago.

The drips are coming faster and faster. Every darn day more drips. Maybe the drips will never become a torrent, but their ship will sink as it slowly fills from these leaks.

I would, of course, prefer a flood of biblical proportions.

[VaBchTgerLily]

3. it doesn't matter that they got nothing-IT WAS THE INTENT

ignorant or not-ignorance is no excuse for the law and they should all be going to jail! the e-mails show informed them it was Russian government personnel so they knew what they were doing was wrong. Just the fact that they kept it from the general public this long shows that they knew this was wrong. It's COLLUSION!!!

[drray23]

5. Exactly !

Some of the trump defenders are trying to spin that nothing happened so it was fine...
Hopefully the democrats will push back pointing out that the intent is what matters. As a matter of fact I am starting to see politicians and pundits doing just that.

[Iggo]

15. If I try to rob a bank, do I get away with it if the bank has no money that day?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. You believe them when they say they got nothing? I've got a bridge to sell you.

I'm pretty sure that they got the final signoff on whatever agreement they have for collusion. Perhaps no data or dirt was passed from one hand to another at the meeting (hence "we didn't get the dirt that day&quot but you can be sure that it was transmitted soon before or after.

In fact, there was a big jump in activity at the Russian Alfa Bank server in the Trump Tower around that time.

Plus Republican Trump publicly promised a few hours later that there would be damaging information given to the media within a few days. Within a few days WikiLeaks received hacked emails.

[fleur-de-lisa]

6. And who is surprised by this latest news?

Bueller? Bueller?

[LakeArenal]

7. "It's hard to make the case that it was not collusion.."

But they already are and will try to make that exact case.

[dalton99a]

8. Many Russian translators are active reserve intelligence

[Moostache]

11. Veselnitskaya is a lead attorney in recent DOJ settled fraud lawsuit...not some "nothingburger"

The quid pro quo here is (as it usually is with this kind of criminal cabal) MONEY...

The Russians are getting paid in relaxed positions by the USA government on Russia, frayed alliances between the USA and EU and outright payoffs in lawsuit settlements EXTREMELY generous and favorable to Russian interests; Trump got paid in fat campaign cash funneled through emissaries in the USA on behalf of Russian oligarchs, and intel in 2016 and promises of more to the GOP in 2018 and 2020...

Everyone excusing this conduct is a treasonous bastard. Everyone guilty of executing it should be tried, convicted and hanged.

[Amaryllis]

17. You got a link for that? Source?

[drray23]

18. It's everywhere in the news.

They are discussing it on MSNBC, CNN , etc..

Here is a Reuters article from a few hours ago : https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-agent-idUSKBN19Z189

they have since identified those two extra people. Rinat Akhmetshin Who is a lobbyist and former counterintelligence officer, the other a translator

[Amaryllis]

20. Thanks - I just got online and this was the first thread i clicked on so didnt know how much had

hit the fan since last night! RAchel will be good tonight.

[Iggo]

19. Besides Don Jr, you mean?

[Timmygoat]

21. I really have that sinking feeling

That the republicans have literally sold America!

[yodermon]

24. Let's stop using the word 'COLLUSION'. It's "conspiracy", "coordination", "espionage."

Throw in "bribery" and "Blackmail" too. "treason" in the small-t sense, not the legal definition.

"Collusion" downplays the seriousness of it all.

[drray23]

25. Indeed. It certainly falls under the espionage act.nt.

[H2O Man]

27. Recommended.

Thank you.

[Blue_Tires]

28. Waiting for the alt right/left alliance to try spinning this...

[BadgerMom]

29. Strip Kushner's security clearance now!

[jmowreader]

31. Also his wife's, and his father-in-law's

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1999/01/23/husband-and-wife-sentenced-for-espionage/482abff1-0ba4-4914-9d46-69a82f3960d4/?utm_term=.c491a8adfbf0

In 1999, married couple Theresa May Squillacote and Kurt Alan Stand were sentenced to long prison terms for spying for the East Germans.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1953/06/20/Rosenbergs-go-silently-to-electric-chair/5084629411212/

In 1953, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg were electrocuted at Sing Sing Prison for selling atomic secrets to the Soviets.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-22/news/mn-53275_1_rosario-ames

Aldrich Ames' wife Rosario was sent to a federal license plate factory for five years and three months for conspiracy to commit espionage and tax evasion.

Sorry folks, but until we figure out how deep in shit these people are, EVERY member of the Trump family who currently holds a security clearance needs to have his or her access to classified information suspended. The 44 other presidents we had would have had their ability to work seriously constrained by losing access, but you need no clearance to tweet and golf and that's all Trump seems to want to do.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

30. Fox news has decided

Can not confirm

Website mentions ZILCH of today's bombshells.

[pnwmom]

32. AND the lobbyist has been accused of being a hired HACKER.

http://www.courthousenews.com/mining-company-sayslaw-firm-hacked-it/

MANHATTAN (CN) – A law firm and a man accused of being a former Soviet spy hacked into a mining company’s computers to get an upper hand in overseas litigation, the company claims.

International Mineral Resources, or IMR, claims business rival and fertilizer maker EuroChem Volga-Kaliy hired New York City law firm Salisbury & Ryan to dig up information on a business rival when a mining deal went bad.

The law firm then hired alleged former Soviet military counterintelligence officer Renit Akhmetshin to conduct an illegal hacking campaign, according to a lawsuit filed by the mining company on Nov. 12 in New York County Supreme Court.

The lawsuit does not list any direct documentation of Salisbury & Ryan or EuroChem asking the alleged former spy to hack IMR, but it claims that the law firm “reached out to Akhmetshin specifically because they understood that Akhmetshin could gain access to private sources of information.”

SNIP

[drray23]

34. And yet the republicans will say

There is nothing there, just a coincidence. On top of it even pundits and sometimes dems preface everything by "if this is accurate" or "we need to investigate more", etc...

[TheBlackAdder]

33. Did Jared include GRU officer Rinat Akhmetshin in his most recent Security Clearance Revision?