Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

applegrove

(118,767 posts)
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:21 PM Jul 2017

The real reason single-payer health care is hard to pay for

by Matthew Yglesias at Vox

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/10/15932446/how-to-pay-for-single-payer

"SNIP............


The VAT option solves this problem but creates a different one. A VAT is basically an up-to-date version of a sales tax that would be levied on the purchase of everything — not just the cash register sales picked up by a typical sales tax. The price of almost everything people buy would go up a little, but in exchange the price of health care would go down a lot. Some people might not like the tradeoff, but it’s a perfectly plausible idea.

The problem is that a VAT would be paid by everyone, including senior citizens who already have Medicare. For non-elderly Americans, the offer would be higher prices in exchange for free health insurance. But elderly Americans would be getting higher prices in exchange for nothing. Social Security benefits would automatically rise to adjust for the higher prices so the most vulnerable seniors would be protected, but more affluent ones would be paying the price for other people’s health care.

Note that in both cases the main issue is that most Americans already have health insurance. Because health insurance is something that most people already have, there are tough trade-offs involved in paying for it.

This argues for a more gradualist approach. The desired end goal could still be Medicare-for-all, but the immediate crisis that needs to be addressed is delivering help to the people who currently have either no insurance or very bad insurance.

..............SNIP"

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
1. Why they call us 'progressives' -
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:28 PM
Jul 2017

and not 'perfectionists.'

We'll get there! We got ACA. Now let's fight to keep it!

Then...next!

Leith

(7,813 posts)
5. Yeah, They Need a Bit of Belt Tightening
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:36 PM
Jul 2017

$500 mil disappears, no biggee. Remember the outrage over the prices of hammers and ashtrays? They were being gouged and didn't care because Congress kept throwing money at them.

The US military is horrendously wasteful. They couldn't be worse if all toilet paper dispensers were full of $100 bills instead of actual toilet paper rolls.

marybourg

(12,634 posts)
4. That's a surmountable problem.
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:34 PM
Jul 2017

If I'm typical, people of Medicare age + don't spend as much as they did when they were younger, and VAT tax can be refundable in any of several ways. And Medicare premiums, deductibles and co-pays can be lowered, especially for the lower-income elderly. The gradualist approach is a good idea, but we should have embarked on it a long time ago.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
6. That's part of it.
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:38 PM
Jul 2017

It's why I suspect it will be accomplished by other means than a VAT. Medicare may always be with us. So may the VA. The military may always have their own system to serve their special needs. We may have several systems, each supported to some extent by their own funding mechanisms. But all of it designed to make sure that no one has to be concerned about having health CARE.

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
7. Take the cost of
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:45 PM
Jul 2017

Medicare, Medicaid, VA, etc., pool those resources into a "Medicare for all" insurance plan.....what a concept! Wouldn't pay for everything, but sure would help!

applegrove

(118,767 posts)
9. We have a vat tax in canada. It is not on necessities. But send you teen to the mall
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:57 PM
Jul 2017

with $100 bucks and $7 goes to healthcare. Redecorate? 7% to healthcare. We are a consumer society. Businesses did not like it but we sure do like our healthcare in Canada.

PSPS

(13,614 posts)
8. There's so much wrong with this opinion piece that I'm surprised vox paid someone for writing it.
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:56 PM
Jul 2017

VAT is a sales tax -- the most regressive tax there is. Increase the income tax to pay for it.

People who already have insurance would still have insurance, they just wouldn't pay the bloated premiums anymore and, instead, pay more income tax. The additional income tax would be less than the premium they pay today. (For plans paid for by employers, the elimination of that expense would end up in the employee's pocket anyway since all benefits are charged against the employee's "potential income.&quot

"Social Security benefits would automatically rise to adjust for the higher prices so the most vulnerable seniors would be protected." is a silly statement since SS inflation adjustments are now always suppressed. However, even in this group, the effect would be minimal because retirees don't have much income subject to income tax in the first place.

There's more, but this is enough to show what happens when someone unversed in a subject shouldn't be paid to write about the subject.

dsc

(52,166 posts)
12. On what planet do you think employers wouldn't pocket the savings?
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 08:27 PM
Jul 2017

I absolutely think mine would pocket the savings in a New York minute (I am a teacher in NC employed by the state of NC). In my case the savings would go to tax cuts for NC rich people.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
16. On top of that what they pay for your health plan you don't get taxed on, if it becomes pay it is
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:23 PM
Jul 2017

So that converts from a non-taxed benefit to a taxed pay increase.

dsc

(52,166 posts)
17. I have no problem with that
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:34 PM
Jul 2017

If I got that cash I should be taxed but I really don't think all employees or even most employees would get this money.

PSPS

(13,614 posts)
19. It would be no different than any other compensation-related item
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:17 PM
Jul 2017

If your employer doesn't raise your pay to reflect their savings (or for any other reason, for that matter,) they risk losing you to an employer who will. And, if no other employer will, that same limitation would apply to anything (i.e., reduction of their corporate taxes or other expense, etc.,) so the fact that we're talking about insurance premiums is really meaningless.

 

Doug the Dem

(1,297 posts)
11. "hard to pay for"?
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 08:07 PM
Jul 2017

Only if cancerous capitalism is your national religion. We've the #1 economy on the planet, we "spend" more on HC than any other country on the planet, and yet, the Swedes, Brits, Canadians, French, Germans, Australians, etc. spend less than we do, have smaller economies than we do, yet receive WAY more bang for the buck than we do.

OxQQme

(2,550 posts)
13. Behind the curtain that's depicting this scenario
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:12 PM
Jul 2017

you would find Pharma, Insurance, and Health care/hospital CEOs with -$$- eyes.
Wringing their hands with glee.
"Your money, or you die."

Notice the lack of discussion about lowering the cost of the 'health/industrial complex' on this side of the screen.
All we've heard is how are "we" going to pay them.

BIG CON job on us.....sad

applegrove

(118,767 posts)
14. I think the funding of public health care is a reality that Americans have to know
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:15 PM
Jul 2017

and swallow before universal healthcare is successful. And CBO scoring will bring up the issue. It can't be avoided.

 

Trial_By_Fire

(624 posts)
15. There is plenty of money for single payer/Medicare for All....
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:20 PM
Jul 2017

When the insurance thieves 'overhead' costs 20-30 percent, there is plenty of money to be
had from getting rid of these blood sucking thieves. A good portion of the 'overhead' goes into
the pockets of corporate executives and stockholders.

Medicare overhead is 3% - that says it all....

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
18. Interesting analysis
Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:45 PM
Jul 2017

Maybe they could make the bargain with seniors to go back to not taxing Social Security, the way it used to be about thirty years ago. One of the reasons I just moved to South Carolina (my first day being official, as the DMV licensed me today!) is that they don't tax Social Security income, and that's a major part of my retirement. Yes, I have some 401K savings, and a tiny pension coming my way, but being able to live free of state income tax is a major plus for me.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The real reason single-pa...