What is with the rise in be nice to "conservatives" posts here?

[Cary]

Maybe we ought to invite them to a big barbecue and a round or two of kumbaya around the campfire?



Has anyone found a comparable post anywhere in Freeperville, heaping praise on liberals? Anyone?

[Autumn]

1. They don't like it when we hurt their little feelings. Poor babies.

Fuck being nice to those assholes.

[Go Vols]

7. yep

Fuck 'em.

[Autumn]

12. Fuck them all to hell. I can be nice to them when I'm dead

and that might be too difficult.

[Demonaut]

218. I hate plus posts but [phone] nt

[freshwest]

231. +1.000

[jberryhill]

2. Maybe because we are different?

[Zalatix]

9. Different? Er, there's another word for that, and it ain't so nice.

Being nice to Conservatives is a weakness. Darwin does not smile kindly upon it.

[RKP5637]

16. Exactly! Be nice to a conservative and they take you for being a Mark, and

a weak individual to be rolled over. Years ago one could be nice to conservatives, but too many Americans IMO don't get it, that these are not Eisenhower conservatives today. They are here to take everything you have including your life.

[Zalatix]

34. They'll say that we're becoming the monsters we fight.

Remember, we won World War II and the Civil War by dropping fluffy bunnies and care packages over the enemy.

[Cary]

36. They are fascists. They are to the right of conservatives on the legitimate political spectrum.

You are correct. The Eisenhower conservative is nowhere to be found.

[RKP5637]

43. Yep, in fact I would call them fascist terrorists. Yep, IMO Eisenhower

conservatives were fine, you could discuss things with them and broker a deal. They lent balance to the political system keeping it middle of the road, more or less, for most Americans. Today, we are fighting IMO for the survival of what democracy and fairness is left.

[patrice]

85. The problem with that is that it became paralyzed by money. It NEEDS to be dynamic. That's

public financing of campaigns.

Paper, instant-run-off ballots, marked by hand, providing an encrypted receipt, ballots counted in public, on a wildly and authentically patriotic national voting holiday, which begins on a Friday and ends the following Tuesday.

[RKP5637]

115. EXCELLENT!!! I wonder, how would that come about. In a democracy one would

think that would be enthusiastically greeted, but the 1% and others would throw zillions at that to defeat any initiatives, I think.

[patrice]

131. GRASSROOTS "Conservatives" I fly that one by LIKE it too. DU is so focused up high, they forget

that you can get poll respondents to completely REVERSE their poll responses by engaging them in open-ended interviews.

That MEANS something.

[Ship of Fools]

158. 't'would be nice, but we need to know--NOW!!!!

[bvar22]

87. Rachel Maddow did a great piece on this.

"The Republican Party platform of Eisenhower's 1956 called for expansion of Social Security, broadened unemployment insurance, better health protection for all of our people. It called for voting rights--full voting civil rights for D.C. It called for expanding the minimum wage to cover more workers. It called for improved job safety for workers, equal pay for workers regardless of sex."

http://www.alternet.org/news/149700

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Cary]

88. I would point you to Thom Hartmann

Rachel is great, for sure, but Thom has been all over this subject and I really like his theories about the cyclical nature of Republican extremism.

[bvar22]

96. I've been listening to Thom for a number of years now.

I never miss Friday's "Brunch with Bernie".

[RKP5637]

116. Thanks for the link!!! n/t

[MissMarple]

184. Thanks, I had missed that.

Her depiction of Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan along with Eisenhower's quote,would make a good ad.

[WinstonSmith4740]

119. Bingo!

"...that these are not Eisenhower conservatives today."

Primarily because Eisenhower wasn't a conservative, and wasn't even sure about being a Republican...they just gave him a better deal.

This is NOT your father's Republican Party. Most Republicans, from Lincoln on, couldn't be elected today. In fact, the only one I'm sure could pass muster would have been Junior.

[Zalatix]

152. Certainly not Teddy Roosevelt. He'd be a Communist.

[Sheepshank]

252. The completely explains the RW politicians ability to convince and continue to convince

the "ordinary people" that the rich are the job creators and need all the tax breaks!!! Hence our shock at those that vote against their own best interests. They have been a mark for so-o-o long, they know no other way.

Break the cycle....vote DEM

[RKP5637]

260. You know, often I think they really want to be punished, it seems they are

wrapped up in the Stockholm Syndrome. Even when presented with irrefutable evidence they are voting in their own worst interest, they go ahead and still vote the same.

Years ago at the university, one of my professors did one lecture on how many are nothing but conditioned reflexes, for many actions there are really no thought processes involved, they just react, emotionally and politically almost as a brain stem function, no cognitive thinking involved.

Often I think back to that lecture when I see how many vote today in their worst possible interest, and many get sh** on and say thank you. It's just all WTF to me.

[jberryhill]

31. You should catch up on your cartooney notion of "Darwin"

A good starting point is here:

The Evolution of Altruistic Behavior

http://www.montana.edu/wwwbi/staff/creel/bio405/hamilton%201963.pdf

W. D. Hamilton. The American Naturalist, Vol. 97, No. 896 (Sep. - Oct., 1963)

Clinging to a foolish notion of what "Darwin smiles upon" is as irrationally superstitious as your regular defenses of religious nonsense.

[Zalatix]

39. What religious nonsense? Your argument is nonsense.

My statement above must seriously apply to you. You would be the kind of person who thinks we could have beat the Confederates and Nazi's with shipments of chocolate candy and Get Well cards.

Life don't work that way, pardner. Sometimes you just gotta stomp or starve evil people. And since this war ain't declared, option #1 is to starve 'em.

Being nice to Conservatives only helps them to come hurt us later. You can never 'kill them with kindness'. You will never change their hearts. You will never make them see any kind of light. They will not ever stop coming at you until you are either like them, or you are dead.

That is reality. You will either deal with it or become a consequence of it. What'll it be?

[BlueCaliDem]

89. Unfortunately, you're correct.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, or showing kindness and charity in any way, is like taking the serpent to your bosom and expecting it *won't bite you because you've been so kind and charitable to it.

I've debated more than my fair share of today's "conservatives", and even when I admit I had something wrong, they come back with, "Well, I knew a lib is too dumb to know anything". That's why I go head to head with them, and as hard as I possibly can get away with on HP. These people are the bottom of the barrel any society. There's no helping them and I refuse to hold out my hand to them again.

[Zalatix]

92. Yes, being charitable to Conservitards is like handling serpents. My faith ain't that strong.

[deutsey]

117. Remember right after the 2008 election?

I remember some pundits asking if this wasn't the end of the GOP as a viable political party.

But the Dems tried to extend a bipartisan hand across the aisle (especially about healthcare reform) and the GOP strung them along long enough to build up and unleash their Teabaggers onto the body politic.

Had any Republican candidate won a presidential election like Obama did, leaving the Democratic party staggering on the ropes, the only hand the GOP would've extended across the aisle would have had a knife in it going right for the jugular.

[Zalatix]

123. Ayup!!! +1,000!

[Cary]

136. Exactly

So am I far off in suggesting that anyone who thinks they can deal with these radicals?

[Marr]

168. I think that was only because the Democratic party's establishment

needed a foil to play against in turning healthcare reform into a health insurance bailout. They knew they wanted to push the old Republican plan, but the only politically feasible way to get there was to be "forced" to "compromise".

[deutsey]

192. That is plausible to me, unfortunately n/t

[GopperStopper2680]

146. Hear hear! N/T

[Doctor_J]

30. Yes. One main difference is

that they've been winning for 20 years while we've been losing. When they steal the next election and implement a fully fascist regime, you can take heart that at least we took the high road to fascism.

[Zalatix]

40. Ooooh, that stung.

[jberryhill]

182. Oh really?

Clinton lost in '92 and again in '96?

I must have missed that part of the last twenty years.

Can you give me the quick list of states where same sex marriage was legal 20 years ago?

It should take you no time.

20 years ago gays could openly serve in the military?

I missed that too...

[Doctor_J]

191. Ah, yes, it's been a great 20 years, hasn't it

you're actually trying to tell us that the country is better off now than it was in 1992.

Holy. Shit.

My 50/50 post below should have been 33-33-33. 33% moles, 33% tender-hearts, and 33% delusionals.

[Nye Bevan]

201. I assume that in 1992 the law did not prevent you from marrying someone you loved? (nt)

[Doctor_J]

214. I assume you believe that DOMA repeal offsets the last 20 year debacle?

Please try to escape your narrow focus. If we hadn't elected right wingers for the last generation, you'd have gotten your repeal and a whole lot more. Jesus Christ, you are saying that 20 years of appeasement to fascist policies is all fine because gay marriage is now legal. Listen to yourself, for God's sake.

This is really, truly hopeless. I give up. Appease away, and enjoy your marriage while millions of americans have their franchise taken away.

[Odin2005]

107. Some of us are sick of being door mats for the Right.

[sabrina 1]

141. Yes, we are different to what their right wing noise machine propagandists told them

we were which includes such delightful descriptions 'limp-wristed, latte-drinking, volvo-driving, entitlement grabbing, commie cowards who love terrorists and hate America' and that's mild.

Bullies should never, ever be appeased. They should be confronted, even if you have to go find them where they reside in the gutter until they run screaming for mercy.

That old advice that Democrats should be 'above it all' worked great, didn't it?

All it did was convince them that Limbaugh was right and like all bullies, thinking they found weakness, only increase their cowardly bullying.

Those days are over and it's just plain thrilling to see them whining and crying about how nasty 'lieberals' are. Like all bullies, once their intended victims stop running or extending their hands only to be slapped down, they run for cover. They can't go deep enough under cover for my taste.

Too bad they believed the stereo-typical description of Liberals they were fed for so long. NOW they are finding the hard way what being tough really means.

[Marr]

156. Yeah, we're not pushing "rich first" bullshit.

That's the only meaningful difference. I see no reason to be nice to racists, bullies, and morons.

[Zoeisright]

181. That hasn't gotten us very far.

[pipi_k]

246. Well, let me put it this way...

we are supposed to be different.

However, judging by some of the replies to the OP, some are no different from the people they profess to dislike/hate.

It's unfortunate that I have to say this, but I've been treated a whole lot better by some Conservatives than by some "Liberals" right here at DU.

I've known a couple of those Conservatives for almost 20 years. Never, in all that time, have they treated me with anything less than respect, which is a whole lot more than I can say for some here who don't even know me.

[Scootaloo]

3. Fetishization of the "center."

It's been an ongoing flaw of the Democrats for decades now. Basically amounts to a combination of "be nice to everyone" and "don't take any extremes."

Yeah, fuck that. You're not going to win against fascists by playing nice and giving them credit. Like any other sociopath, they just take what you give them and kick you down just the same.

[A Simple Game]

11. You aren't confusing fascists with conservatives, are you?

You do know they aren't the same thing, don't you?

Conservatives are not our enemy, the 1% are our enemy. They are not even political, they just use politics to get what they want.

[hifiguy]

24. There's no difference in today's Repig party.

All of the old-school moderates and true conservatives have been purged by the radical regressives, baggers, religulously insane and Ayn Rand acolytes.

Many of them are now "conservative" Democrats, which is an oxymoron.

[RKP5637]

29. Yep! That's what I was trying to say in my post #16, but you said it far better!!! n/t

[mazzarro]

63. + 1000%

DLC's type of niceness has not panned out for us. It is about time we started going for the rePIGs jugular.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

38. I'm sure you don't mean that

when you write that conservatives are not the enemy. The narrow-minded bigots who use religion to deny women's rights, gay rights, who applaud the notion of poor people being allowed to die if they can't afford a doctor, who don't believe in science are the enemy. Without their willful ignorance, the 1%ers would have to bend to the people's will or find another country.

[A Simple Game]

53. I most certainly do mean it. And if enough people don't understand

it, we will all lose.

So conservative now equals a bigot?
So conservative now equals religious?
So conservative now equals anti-science?

The 1% don't just depend on the willful ignorance of the right, they need the willful ignorance of the left also.

You can let the 1% play the us against them game, but I'm not playing, haven't for a long time.

Conservatives and Liberals all have the same problems, it's just the solutions where we disagree.

[Zalatix]

67. How do we lose if we flush Conservatives down the toilet?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

91. "Conservatives are not our enemy"

Yours was a blanket statement. You stated that no conservatives are the enemy. We live in an America now where most conservatives are bigots, gun-happy crazies, sociopaths who would will death on the poor and uninsured, religious whackos, haters of the government and of taxes, and anti-science nuts. Look at the conservatives running for office across this country, for national office or local. Who is voting for these nuts? If you're thinking about Eisenhower conservatives you are mistaken. They were liberals. They voted for the civil rights acts. The Republican party used to have many liberals, just as the Democratic Party had many conservatives. And yes, the nuts who worship the rich are willfully ignorant. They live in the most advanced country on earth and refuse to open their eyes. Their own lack of character is the problem They are personally responsible for the fact that students are struggling to pay for higher and higher eduction costs. They are personally responsible for the millions of uninsured. They are responsible for the fact that no one in the Republican party wants to raise taxes. They bear the personal responsibility for this. They don't get a free pass. All it takes to turn things around in this country is for the selfish, the closed-minded, the low moral character conservatives to open their eyes to the truth. Only they can do it. They are adults. They have brains. They have the ability to choose. They choose to support the 1%.

[leftyohiolib]

124. the cons are the strong arm of the 1% while the republicons are in our way they are but puppets of

the 1%.

[sabrina 1]

147. You're right, the 1% does need the willful ignorance of the left also. And for far too

long they got it because the 'left' leadership thought it was better to play nice with moronic bullies.

This third way sucking up to the Right is what got us to where we are. There is only one way to deal with bullies, and it isn't the way Democrats have been doing it for far too long, ever since the invasion of the Third Way who actually are appeasers. But not any more.

They want to play tough guys, then let's show them what tough really means and watch them scatter like cockroaches. It's 20 years too late, and it's been painful watching the Dem Leadership reach across the aisle trying to look reasonable, and watch them get their hands slapped each and every time. No more.

[Gemini Cat]

263. Answers to your 3 questions:

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

There. You have your answers.

[PETRUS]

58. Cause & effect

What if it's the other way around, i.e. the dominance of the 1% creates an environment (e.g. widespread economic insecurity) that allows bigotry to thrive? Divide and conquer is a long-used strategy of ruling elites...

[LongTomH]

86. I think you nailed it!

The 'conservatives' who aren't rich are terrified of slipping into poverty, and fear leads to hate which leads to the Dark Side (As Master Yoda explained.). Faux Noise and hate radio offer them someone to direct their hatred toward, and it ain't the 1%.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

97. Why have you opened your eyes and they haven't?

You are treating them like children. They are adults who have made their choice. Have you tried talking to the average Tea Partier? They are so arrogant and full of themselves, they choose to take a side that legitimizes their warped and immoral mentality. They are just waiting for someone to tell them that their selfishness and bigotry are okay. Do you really mean they bear no responsibility for their acts and that political marketing can turn them into sociopaths? No amount of propaganda can make me support a Republican. For the propaganda to work, you've first got to be very receptive and open to the notions it advances.

[PETRUS]

137. Glad you asked.

There's enough variety from person to person that I doubt the existence of a suitable one-size-fits-all answer to explain bigotry. So I should clarify: I'm not claiming the category of problems that include poverty/inequality/etc. is the sole cause. I am claiming it is a factor. You said it yourself: For the propaganda to work, you've first got to be very receptive and open to the notions it advances. Frightened or desperate people are more vulnerable to such propaganda. This is hardly a controversial thesis - see Germany in the 1930s for a well documented example.

The other thing I'd like to point out is that this problem can be addressed on a societal level via the political process, which is not the case for every possible source of bigotry.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

161. Fear and desperation are part of it

But I don't think it explains all the hatred and bigotry we see on the right. Lots of white middle-class males with jobs are the ones attending Tea arty rallies. Lots of out-of-work individuals on the left are scared about the future but they don't tune in to hate radio. In the case of Nazi Germany which you have raised, it also involved extreme nationalism among the people, aryan hubris, xenophobia, and the inability to believe that they could be defeated in war and therefore the blaming of Jews and communists, among other factors. Hitler didn't just just play off fear, he used national pride as well. He appealed to base instincts that were already there. Some people are just waiting for propaganda to come along to legitimize their own selfishness and immorality and they flock to it, the way people flock to Fox News or Limbaugh. I think it involves too much self-love, not enough of the ability to love others and see them as human beings. You're right in that there might be many explanations for this trait, whether genetic or societal and environmental. But in the end, we are all responsible for our actions as adults.

[PETRUS]

176. Yup.

I agree with you that dramatic economic inequality doesn't explain everything about bigotry (and although you didn't exactly say so I'd have to admit that dealing with it wouldn't solve everything either). But I do think addressing the problem would make a difference and it should be possible - according to the General Social Survey, 7 out of 10 self-identified conservatives believe we are spending too little on social security, welfare, education, the environment, and health care. Weird, huh? I may not see eye to eye with this group on a whole bunch of issues (like things pertaining to sexual orientation, race and gender), but we ought to be able to reach common ground on an economic program to benefit the working class. And if we did, I think we'd see some dividends elsewhere, i.e. somewhat less hate.

[Scootaloo]

74. No, there is no confusion at all. I'm CERTAIN.

When I speak to a conservative, what I find, what I always find, is a sociopath who literally wants to see harm come to me. If not me personally, then someone i know. They want the poor poeple to suffer. They want the brown people to suffer, they want muslims and foreigners and gay people and women and left-handed people and who-the-fuck-knows who else, they want them all to suffer.

The days when a conservative was just a guy who had a different idea on how to do the best for America are long gone. Forty years gone. They absolutely ARE my enemy, just as anyone else who wishes to bring harm to me is.

Do you fucking grasp that, Simple? When they talk about how much they want to repeal the ACA, they WANT TO HURT YOU. when they want to strip away women's rights, THEY WANT TO HURT YOU. Their jabber about privatization? THEY ARE TRYING TO HURT YOU. And the rank and vile conservatives are marching right along like the little silver-shirted Bund motherfuckers that they are.

if you want to shake hands with someone who LITERALLY wants to see you raped, murdered, and thrown into a ditch, be muy guest; but I'm not going to join you.

[chervilant]

127. hmm...

When I speak to a liberal, what I find, what I always find, is a sociopath who literally wants to see harm come to me. If not me personally, then someone i know. They want the Christian poeple to suffer. They want the Tea Party people to suffer, they want muslims and foreigners and gay people and women and left-handed people and who-the-fuck-knows who else, they want them to get a free ride using my hard-earned tax dollars.

The days when a liberal was just a guy who had a different idea on how to do the best for America are long gone. Forty years gone. They absolutely ARE my enemy, just as anyone else who wishes to bring harm to me is.

Geez, change a few labels (all bolded and italicized) and your rant sounds like something one might find on Free Republic.

First of all, I have not seen the

rise in be nice to "conservatives" posts here

that Cary alleges is happening on DU. What I HAVE seen--and quite regularly--are divisive, derisive, bigoted posts about the "enemy"--variously called Tea Thuglicans, Repuglicans, ReTards , Freepers, and whatever other 'clever' epithets certain members of this website seem intent upon using.

While it may feel good to post derisive rants about the pathetically delusional individuals who believe the rhetoric promulgated by the corporate megalomaniacs (who've usurped our media, our politics, AND our global economy), such behavior will NOT help us recover our nation from the vile, fascist corporate overlords who are THRILLED that the divisiveness they promote is working oh-so-well.

IMHO, we must promote diplomacy and civility in our relentless efforts to use Satyagraha and non-violent insurrection to stop the uber wealthy fascists. We must not vacillate in our efforts to shine the light of truth and reason on the poor unfortunates who march in lockstep with our oppressors. However, we cannot HOPE to effect change among those pitiable 'conservatives' who are our family, our co-workers, our friends, AND our fellow citizens by calling them

someone who LITERALLY wants to see you raped, murdered, and thrown into a ditch

.

[A Simple Game]

138. Very nice post, thank you.

To defeat your enemies, you first need to know who they are.

[mstinamotorcity]

148. What if its the truth???????

what if to see you raped and murdered is the truth. When they say women shouldn't have the ability to abort the baby of rape or incest, what does it mean. It means that they approve of rape and grandaddy dearest making whoopee with his 10 year old grandaughter.
When you see the rise in hate groups and a two week back order on bullets what do you think that means. It means there are those gearing up to kill. And what about working people here and abroad for extended hours and less pay. Gambling their 401ks, and Pension funds in selling debt. And according to my public school teacher, Debt is something that is owed and has no value, because it is a negative. and after all this, there is a Dead Peasant Policy on you, for what amount, (you will never know) to collect on after you are dead. Oh yea, your family is not entitled to none of this ownership money. Seems like I have seen this in another form. What do you liken this to??? Yes those who speak for the one percent know exactly what they are doing. But if you have enough money they would sell their Mother. The one percent only wants to OWN your mother. Show some civility. Take the high road. Turn the other cheek. Kill your enemies with kindness. They just don't know any better. You may have taken the high road,but i will not ignore the collateral damage of those left in the ditch dead and dying.

[chervilant]

244. What do we call

a blanket condemnation of a group based on an allegedly ubiquitous trait (for example, skin color, gender, age, religious belief, political stance, etc.)?

My sister is a conservative Republican. Each and every time she gives me an opportunity to refute a 'talking point' she's heard on the radio (or television), I begin by asking her questions about her assertion(s), and then I use Gandhi's Satyagraha. Typically, she will say, "I don't know all those facts and figures; I just know what I believe!" Despite this, I will continue to provide her with provable truths, because she is one of a significant number of conservatives who are NOT

...bigots, gun-happy crazies, sociopaths who would will death on the poor and uninsured, religious whackos, haters of the government and of taxes, and anti-science nuts.

In my current research, I have learned that intuitions trump strategic reasoning almost always. I cannot hope to 'change' my sister's mind, just as Democrats cannot hope to 'change' the minds of most Republicans.

However, considering that

In moral and political matters we are often groupish, rather than selfish. We deploy our reasoning skills to support our team, and to demonstrate commitment to our team.(Haidt, 2012)

perhaps one can deduce that using Satyagraha is more likely to get results than calling our conservative brethren derisive names.

BTW, much of the research in moral psychology shows that our species tends toward obdurate intellectual arrogance when it comes to religious or political beliefs, even in the face of irrefutable contradictory evidence.

Reasoning can take us to almost any conclusion we want to reach, because we ask "Can I believe it?" when we want to believe something, but "Must I believe it?" when we don't want to believe. The answer is almost always yes to the first question and no to the second. (Haidt, 2012)

If we hope to be successful in our efforts to recover our democracy, we might consider an intuitionist approach, with a bit more humility about individual abilities. Name-calling and chest-thumping may feel good in the short run, but are clearly not feasible for effective long-term change.

(P.S.--when I find myself facing a political bully (of any ilk), my responses are quite different. However, I will not tar every single conservative on this planet with that brush...)

[Scootaloo]

190. The key difference is...

If you go to freerepublic... or rightnation... or turn on the fucking TV... you find conservativesthere, crowing about how much harm they want to cause. How much fun it'll be to fuck people over, and how they all "have it coming."

You don't find that on DU, any other progressive site or media. Your attempt to parallel them is uninformed.

Again, if you want to sit around and wait for the bund to "come around," you go right ahead. I consider them a lost cause, and plan to move past them.

[chervilant]

245. hmm...

And, you don't see this OP as a variation of what you've asserted is ubiquitous among conservatives? Are there responses herein 'crowing' about how arrogant and intractable are all conservatives? Are there responses here branding all conservatives 'the enemy'?

My activism is not of the

sit around and wait for the bund to "come around..."

mindset. I understand that it takes a great deal more effort (and compassion) to engage conservatives, and to use Satyagraha to help them see how the uber wealthy corporate megalomaniacs are inflicting pain on the ENTIRE Hoi Polloi (AND, gleefully rubbing their hands together about our relentless snarfing of their partisan red herrings). But, I want the epic failure of the corporate overlords to be FINAL, with no hope of support from ANY of the disenfranchised Hoi Polloi.

[Zalatix]

234. By your logic we should have called for peace negotiations with the Confederates

and the Nazis, too.

I proudly call these modern day fascists Tea Thuglicans, Repuglicans, and when I'm feeling nice, Freepers. "ReTards" is one I won't use, though, for obvious reasons.

I'd just as soon call them Nazi's.

[Doctor_J]

121. You're confusing the 1% with cons

Warren Buffet, the Kennedy Family, the president, and a lot of other 1%ers are not the problem. OTOH the poverty-stricken Limbecile who votes for a teabagger is a large part of the problem.

[A Simple Game]

140. I'm not confused about anything.

Of course not all of the 1% are bad nor are they all conservative. I doubt most are even that political. But many do use politics for personal gain.

But of course all conservatives are bad, right?

If we are fighting amongs ourselves, we can't fight them.

[PETRUS]

180. Cute & cuddly 1%-ers

There are undoubtedly decent people among the ultra-high-net-worth crowd. But if they do, in fact, support policies that might benefit the 99%, they are not getting their way. Substantial majorities of Americans support an increased minimum wage, higher taxes on the rich, and express disapproval of our trade policy. So the public is not getting its way. According to the General Social Survey, 7 out of 10 self-identified conservatives believe we are spending too little on social security, welfare, education, the environment, and health care. So there's an argument to be made that even conservatives are not getting their way.

We have had 30+ years of economic policy that redistributes wealth upward. A standard thing to ask when trying to understand questions of agency is "who benefits?" Maybe the 1% is just super-duper lucky...

[Doctor_J]

189. Your post is nonsense

n fact, support policies that might benefit the 99%, they are not getting their way.

Huh?

Substantial majorities of Americans support an increased minimum wage

Not happening

higher taxes on the rich

Not happening

express disapproval of our trade policy

Not changing

7 out of 10 self-identified conservatives believe we are spending too little on social security, welfare, education, the environment, and health care. So there's an argument to be made that even conservatives are not getting their way.

9 out of 10 conservatives vote Repuke, so they definitely ARE getting their way

[PETRUS]

200. Okay...

Your post supports my argument, so you're not changing my mind. Nor do I expect to change yours. We should call it quits.

[progressivebydesign]

157. don't know about the word "enemy" but my anger toward the right is not just the 1%

Unless you see a lot of Mittens' friends standing at Tea Party rallies with racists signs, and posting vile things about gays, and women, and liberals. I don't see the Hamptons set doing that.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

183. I call them reactionaries

...or fascists.

[A Simple Game]

185. A term from the '60s, I remember it well. n/t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

199. Since the French Revolution ...

... they have sought a return to the Ancien Régime.

[fredamae]

4. Self Promoting Conservatism?

No, I've not found any other comments and concerns elsewhere.

[HopeHoops]

5. The best way to understand the enemy is to befriend them.

[patrice]

8. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer (for different reasons, of course). nt

[HopeHoops]

17. That quote dates back to Sun Tsu.

[Doctor_J]

19. I don't want to understand them. I want to take the

country back from them.

This Kumbaya stuff is sickening, really.

[patrice]

32. It's NOT "Kumbaya". Understanding is rational. This is about a priority on problem solving, instead

of _______________________ (ideology, absolutism, power, ego, divide-and-conquer . . . . ) ALWAYS first.

Priorities. DYNAMIC priorities.

[99Forever]

54. And while you are busy..

... "understanding them rationally," they are busy kicking your teeth down your throat.

I already "understand them rationally" just fine, thank you very much. They are sociopaths that need to be removed from ALL positions of power in this Nation or we will NOT survive. Take no prisoners.

[patrice]

70. Isn't your use of "they" the same thing that you hate in others? THEY are not all the same.

Are you the same as everyone else identifying with whatever label you have "chosen"? You object to being characterized without respect for your individuality, right? How does doing to others the same thing that they do to you do anything constructive for your own right to be treated as an individual?

Any right that does not apply to everyone is NOT a right, but a PRIVILEGE, instead. Even if that privilege, in this case to be treated as an individual, applies to people with whom I agree in most other regards (that is, I agree with them in regards other than my objection to their privilege), that privilege of being treated as an individual NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS power to maintain. The longer it accrues the power to do so, the more privileged it becomes (e.g. Communism) and the further away from Liberal Leftist goals it digresses BECAUSE it must maintain that power for the privileged to be treated as individuals, until nothing remains but Fascism.

[99Forever]

79. You can deal with assholes trying to destroy you ..

... in any gawddamn way you please, but if you are going to tell the rest of us HOW we should, then you have another fucking thing coming. Don't like it? Don't read my posts.

I detest surrendering to bullies and those that do it.

[patrice]

98. I am not telling you how to do whatever you're doing. I am saying there are MORE than only zero-sum

ways of going about things. When dichotomies are all that is exclusively applied to our understanding, i.e. the ONLY thing that anyone ever does, no one ever values similarities higher than differences, well, then, those dichotomies become FALSE. There are no absolutes; there is nothing that is absolutely different/separate from anything else. Everything is related. The fact that we exclusively reject that relatedness results in enemies, just as it appears that you are trying to do to what I am saying right now.

BTW, I must say, because it does mean so much to me: Real good way to go about imagining "all the people" you have going on there. It looks kind of much more like divide-and-conquer to me. Am I wrong?

[99Forever]

104. I'm living with the results..

... of doing things "your way." It sucks. But you got yours, right? Nothing else matters.

[KurtNYC]

197. +1 "Get half the poor people to fight the other half" works all too well.

[patrice]

251. THAT. is. exactly. what. DU. is for.

[frylock]

122. how much more do you need to understand them?

i think most people by now should have a pretty good idea where conservatives are coming from. i have a full understanding of their narrow-minded bigotry. it's time to move on and crush them.

[patrice]

128. I don't know. Understanding is very situation-specific. It requires concrete effort, principles are

simply guidelines, rationally adaptable guidelines, you bring to situations/experiences. "How much more..." depends upon the context.

Ask any good teacher what they do, maybe?

[frylock]

186. well by all means then let us continue to study and analyze the right-wing idealogues..

as they continue to run roughshod over basic democratic principles. then maybe in another 30 or 200 years we can finally take some action. baby steps, right?

[patrice]

188. Situation specific means out there in the real world lives of people, many of whom happen to be

Republicans.

So, you're advocating against people understanding people. Let's "hear" more about that. Kind of authoritarian, don't you think?

[frylock]

203. you don't seem understand fuckall..

buh-bye

[patrice]

248. Hit and run. How courageous!

[bvar22]

145. If you want to understand Conservatives, Democrat OR Republican,

...take a course in Human Development.
Pay special attention to the Middle Childhood and Pre-Adolescent stages of Cognitive, Emotional, and Social Development.

That is ALL you need to know.

[HopeHoops]

35. Agreed on the Kumbaya stuff. Still, you have to understand them to fight them.

[patrice]

55. Completely agree. Understanding is essential. This is why relying on LABELS only is damaging.

It's not that describing stuff/people isn't useful, but that if you lock them in you close down your own perception and CAN miss useful REAL stuff.

[HopeHoops]

61. Agreed. There are some brave souls who watch FOX so we know what's going on.

I can't stomach it.

[patrice]

72. I very strongly want to do the work of authentic revolution, but I CAN'T do that job either.

I try, but it affects me too strongly, too depressing.

[HopeHoops]

82. It takes a person stronger than I am.

[patrice]

6. The reality is that margins are thin. Maybe not where you are, but definitely elsewhere and

local elections DO matter too.

[RKP5637]

22. +++ 1,000 +++ I recently had occasion to do a lot of traveling in the US and

I was surprised at how conservative many areas felt, it was in the air, like too much Fox News, too much Glenn Beck, and too much Alex Jones, etc. The country in many areas feels restless and uncomfortable IMO. I've traveled a lot in the US pre-9/11 and I never felt this restlessness.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. Actually, I've been feeling like there's been an uptick in agitating.

[patrice]

13. Given that some people ARE going to be different from you, how do you feel about differences

that are of the same type as Dwight D. Eisenhower, compared to differences that are of the same type as Willard Rmoney?

Or shall we all just kick our feet, scream, insult anyone, and break things until everyone becomes just like you/me?

[Doctor_J]

18. There are no remaining Repukes like Ike

your premise is ridiculous. Today's Repukes are ALL supporters of Rmoney, Gingrinch, Bachmann, Rove, Limpballs, and the rest of the enemies of America.

[patrice]

23. The ones in "power" are and when you cede ground that may not be that uniform, you lose.

Remember the 50 state strategy? Does it matter that there is support out there for policies that are also supported by Senator Sanders or not? I PERSONALLY know some (more authentic) Libertarians who are now supporting the PPACA. That's PROGRESS, which means more progress is possible.

- but -

When you begin with the premise that you lose, you lose.

[Doctor_J]

27. Come on

when you cede ground that may not be that uniform, you lose

We have been losing huge ground for 20 years, mostly by believing you can reason with psychos.

[patrice]

44. Reason? I see practically no reason anywhere. And even if I did, even if some few attempts HAD been

made, the inherence of elitist mediocrity, instead of meritocracy, in *A*L*L* systems means that we can't assume that the most effective person was making most effective rational case, at the most effective time, in the most effective manner possible.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

45. 44 years, if you consider the loss to Nixon.

Carter was a neo-liberal who began de-regulation before Reagan was involved.

Bill I'm-a-smiling-come-back-kid-and-people-are-only-unhappy-with-me-because-of-Lewinsky-and-her-blue-dress Clinton pushed for the approval of NAFTA and signed it.

Official Democrats can be better than official Republicans, but high-level Democrats have been moving away from traditional Democratic values. Those of us who remain true to such values have no way to stop them. We can only hope to shame some of them when they engage in perfidity and slow them down.

[patrice]

80. Agreed. And think of the tragedy of generations of people looking at generations of "leaders" and

assuming they got where they are because they are better somehow.

Sorry to say, it's been this way since the Continental Congress and reminding myself that doesn't mean that it can't be different, just that WE need to be very fundamentally different in order to have a chance against it.

[patrice]

26. These assumptions that absolutely millions of people are completely = to whatever LABEL we put on

them are poison.

If I have a right to not be treated as a label, so do others.

[Doctor_J]

14. About 50/50

half are moles, the other half soft-hearted chumps who think that sociopaths are actually nice people when you get to know them, or deserve some slack because they were sane until Fox "News" came on the air.

Really discouraging, asking for compassion for bloodthirsty animals.

[Cary]

46. The moles I can understand.

The Stockholm Syndrome victims are a little more difficult to fathom and it goes beyond advocating compassion for the bloodthirsty animals. They are hostile to us because of our animosity towards "conservatives".

Only at DU, eh?

[Romulox]

266. YOU joined this site on May 9, 2012. Funny how quickly you've become an "expert"! nt

[AnotherMcIntosh]

47. Exactly.

[RZM]

106. Funny how you could flip that argument around entirely

Many of those who post the most angry rhetoric (especially the stuff that comes close to endorsing death and violence) are moles whose intention is to make the left look bad. The rest are just pricks who aren't pretending.

[Blanks]

15. They are out neighbors, our family, our coworkers...

Being mean to them is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Depending on what industry you work in; they may be your customer or client. There is no benefit to being an asshole.

It is one thing to roll over or let someone walk all over you; it is a whole different thing to strike out at strangers without provocation.

The mature thing to do is be reasonable with people until they show that they do not deserve it. As someone else pointed out; we are not them.

We are better.

[Doctor_J]

20. Wrong

"no benefit to being an asshole"?????

Limpballs, Rove, Gingrinch, Beck, 1200 hate radio hosts, etc.

Wake the fuck up

[Blanks]

42. I don't follow...

Are you suggesting that since they have benefitted from being an asshole? So it follows that by extension you will benefit in the same manner by being an asshole.

If that's what you think; then you're a dumbass.

[patrice]

49. You're suggesting that we JUSTIFY what they are doing, by doing it to them? Do you think that's how

Senator Sanders became one of the most effective leaders in this country?

[Zalatix]

68. Yes, and by that logic we should have dropped birthday cards and See's Candy

on the Confederates, instead of blowing them to hell.

[Cary]

78. I have heard Bernie refer to "conservatives" as fascists and sociopaths

I'll go further. I had a law partner who was a Republican with a reputation for being very conservative. He lasted one term as a Senator. He went to Washington and immediately told us that his fellow Senators were batshit crazy.

[patrice]

111. Senator Sanders calls things what they are, one of the reasons I follow him. BUT have you EVER seen

or heard him DO to anyone else what these fascist sociopaths do to us?

The Golden Rule IS a powerful weapon, not just a defense.

[Cary]

125. No one here is talking about doing to fascist sociopaths what they do to us.

I know I'm not. I certainly don't want to enrich the oligarchs and destroy the middle class the way they're doing. I'm certainly not advocating lies or smear campaigns.

I'm simply saying that they're the enemy. They are sociopaths. They are fascists. They are extremely stupid, as Eisenhower himself told us. They may be of us but they are not our friends and they need to be dealt with, politically speaking, as swiftly and harshly as possible.

Nothing illegal or immoral here. It's just that until they moderate and become less radical and less extreme, we can't negotiate with them. That's all.

[patrice]

254. Not necessary to talk about it. We have encoded the oppressor so deeply within ourselves that we

just do the same thing in our own ways automatically.

LOOK at this board honestly and tell me we aren't our own worst enemies. "They" oppress us, they CAN oppress us, because we oppress ourselves, with things such as the FEAR of saying "I am a Conservative in X, Y, Z."

FEAR of what it means to stop engaging in social conformity, fear of losing our little security cliques, i.e. the opposite of courage.

[Cary]

255. Re our own worst enemies on tbis board

They are nothing and nobody Patrice. We control our own destiny. If we turn out and vote for Democrats then we win.

The rabble are noisy but in reality they are few and far between.

[patrice]

256. Yes. But I live in a state that's ALWAYS written off. I'm represented by hand-picked Koch slaves

at all levels. I have been out of work, since I dared to say something about ChurchCoC on Face Book.

I fucking hate the ugliness I see here, because it is victory for the worst things in our culture, especially when it comes from someone whom I agree with, otherwise, because they may be more valid than so many others. That meanness HARMS people and, hence, truth.

People don't seem to understand how to be different and not hurt one another, intentionally or otherwise. We're looking right into the mind:heart of that here.

...........................

Thank Goodness for my volunteer activities!

[Cary]

258. I'm truly sorry that you have been out of work

The harsh words are truly unfortunate. I know it's not good enough to suggest having a thick skin, but unfortunately that's the best advice I have.

And if you're over run by venal and corrupt "conservatives" then I have another wholly unsatisfying suggestion, vote with your feet. Not a great suggestion but it's the best I have right now.

And the volunteer activities are great.

[patrice]

259. What I need is to find one honest-to-god Leftie candidate with half a chance of success to

work for here at home.

[randome]

37. Well said!

Calling Republicans stupid or evil is essentially giving up the argument and ensuring that nothing will change.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. Maybe. But they're still idiots. n/t

[sabrina 1]

151. Don't worry, there's provocation on an hourly basis, so yes, striking BACK not OUT

is not only necessary, is has taken way, way too long to get started because of appeasers within this party.

My family and neighbors who vote Republican have been lied to and the lies continue to succeed because WE have never exposed them enough. No opportunity should be missed to expose they evil they have perpetrated against this country. Torture, illegal wars, economic disaster, and lying to get support for all their crimes.

Sorry, if we had been doing what was needed when this all started, an awful of human beings would be alive today. The appeasement of the Left makes them complicit in the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Right and I for one want no part in sharing the guilt for their crimes. The record needs to show that at least some on the Left tried to stop them.

Tell me, how did all the appeasement of the last two decades benefit this country?

[PDJane]

21. Nice? No.

I will be polite to them, mostly. Not, however, nice. You can say almost everything politely.

[patrice]

50. Cool, but honest, restraint is a powerful position. nt

[Doctor_J]

112. Yes, it has really been successful over the last 20 years

verrrrrrry powerful.

[patrice]

249. Okay, so is "our leadership" intellectually competent or not. I keep hearing that they aren't &

now you are telling me that they are and it didn't work.

Which is it, please?

[patrice]

250. And, btw, wouldn't Sen. Sanders say it isn't about "them" anyway? You are saying here that WE

have been intelligently active at the grassroots level, amongst ourselves, and at any and all levels of power with honest courage and "cool restraint" and it hasn't worked?

That's pretty funny.

Yeah, insulting people you don't know, engaging in prejudice, purposefully MIS-CHARACTERIZING what people say, never asking honest appropriate questions of one another, soliciting sacred-cow power-driven issue cliques to engage in lowest-common-denominator vigilantism, bitterness, pseudo-courage behind anonymous screen names, feigned ignorance, actual ignorance, hysteria, false equivalencies, vindictiveness, false dichotomies, straw man, reductio ad absurdum, bias, outright bigotry, hate, and so much much more has "been successful over the last 20 years" out there in our neighborhoods and larger communities and the last 10+ years here at DU.

I guess I must agree with you "verrrrrrrrrry powerful" indeed, in creating an anti-Liberalism so poisonous that we will never be able to do anything but bitch and whine and pad sagging jock-straps by counting coup on one another, never be able to do anything but throttle one another and propagate that grinding, clutching, claw-hands-around-each-other's-necks dance of death until that's all there is.

God forbid that anyone should actually affirm another person, FOR NOTHING IN RETURN, especially a stranger, or someone you don't know, in any but the most general cheapest woo-woo "vibes" sort of way, because that would actually be something different.

[barbtries]

25. i haven't seen the posts to which you refer.

maybe you could provide a link or two?

[BumRushDaShow]

33. IMHO, there are people who believe

that black people should not express DISGUST against someone who utters pure self-serving bullshit from a teleprompter that is not in their (and my) own interest:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002930196

[Son of Gob]

170. Except nobody said that.

I assume you're trying to paint jberryhill with that brush. You ignore that he said this :

What I am saying is that Romney went there IN ORDER to get a negative reaction. That he got one is no surprise, and no fault of the audience.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=930826

[BumRushDaShow]

195. Huh?

My post here is general and you want to make it about one poster? How noble of you.

[Son of Gob]

202. In general?

Your comment and the link you provided led me to the poster you obviously were referring to. Now you want to play dumb.

If you weren't referring to him, show me in that thread where "people who believe that black people should not express DISGUST" are? I won't hold my breath.

[BumRushDaShow]

205. Excuse me?

How about reading the rest of the thread and other posts there insisting that the NAACP basically should just grin and take it per posters other than your designated vanity poster? But that is apparently not your intent, which appears to be to stalk rather than to consider the issues in the thread I suppose?

[Son of Gob]

208. Do you even know what stalking is?

It isn't when someone follows a link YOU provided. Looking through that thread it's clear that no one is saying the NAACP should just grin and take it. You are being completely dishonest and for what? I don't get why you're doing this.

[BumRushDaShow]

213. Yes you are stalking

because you STILL didn't read the whole thread - the link was not directly to your favored poster, it was to the thread. Only you fixated on that poster and ignored the rest of the posters who made similar comments.

Go away stalker!

[Son of Gob]

221. You clearly aren't a reasonable person

There is not one comment in that thread that resembles what you claim. Now you resort to foolish, nonsensical personal attacks. Have a nice day.

[2pooped2pop]

28. fuck them and the dressage horses they rode in on. n/t

[Inkfreak]

41. My parents are conservative

Should I go scream at them? It doesn't work. If it did, I woulda had a less restrictive curfew & use of the car more often as a kid.... Better to donate to Obama campaign in their name, & tell em

[randome]

52. Yeah. Screaming, labeling, name calling. That does nothing but ensure that the war goes on.

[Cary]

56. I'm not referring to real life interactions

This is Democratic Underground, not your parents' living room. Of course you have to get along with people in real life and the old adage is to never discuss religion or politics. But we're having political discussions here and to the best of my knowledge this is a board for liberals. So why would we be mincing words here?

[randome]

76. 'Real life' includes Republicans, like it or not.

I don't see anyone saying to bend over backwards to be nice to them. But you are essentially giving up on an argument when you see them as 'the enemy'. Especially when that 'enemy' is never going to go away.

The only way to make them not our enemy is by pulling them back into the realm of sanity. There is no other recourse other than, say, public executions.

[Cary]

84. Do some research on sociopaths

Then explain to me why you aren't a fool if you try to negotiate with them.

You cannot negotiate with a sociopath. You cannot debate a sociopath. A sociopath understands only one thing--you must defeat a sociopath. You cannot pull as sociopath "back into the realm of sanity." That idea is irrational.

[WI_DEM]

48. where are all the 'nice to conservative' posts?

[freshwest]

233. Here's one here, that always draws the RW trolls like moths to the flame:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002100108

[FSogol]

51. Link? n/t

[Cary]

60. Why? n/t

[FSogol]

62. Because I don't see a single "be nice to conservatives" post.

An example of what you are seeing would be nice.

[Cary]

73. I don't understand how you can miss them.

So there's no point in me pointing them out to you.

[FSogol]

77. Your honor...The defendent is sooo guilty, we are not going to produce

any evidence of his guilt. That's how guilty he is.

Whatever.

[Cary]

81. This isn't a court of law

And you aren't Clarence Darrow

[GeorgeGist]

163. Since you can't back up your OP.

Why not delete it and end this childish game you're playing.

[Cary]

164. Oooh. I hit a vein with you, eh?

How's that barbecue working out for you?

[KurtNYC]

113. I think the OP is refering (errantly) to my thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002929481

I gave some left / right examples because I was trying to be clear but much of this kind of thing goes on right here in GD. Calling someone stupid is not the same as refuting their argument and it is often lazy and uninformed. Also, in any conflict it pays to not under estimate your opposition -- "Know your enemy."

[Cary]

135. In part, but there are a number of other people like you.

I don't think it's a whole lot of people, but you're certainly not alone.

How about responding to my Eisenhower quote? Was he stupid or what?

[KurtNYC]

149. People like me?! I am a beautiful and unique snowflake!

I never said "be nice to conservatives" btw.

Will look for your Eisenhower quote...

[freshwest]

232. You forgot delicate and sensttive snowflake, too.. Like all of us, LOL!

That was a pretty good thread with the snark fest.

[DocMac]

179. "That's how guilty he is."

[Wait Wut]

269. ohshit.

[leftyohiolib]

59. do we have any "be nice to conservatives" posts cause i havnt seen any let alone a rise in them

i understand that maybe some get past me but i regularly check the latest threads and cant recall any. id like to know why we should tolerate them

[Cary]

65. Personally I am of the sunlight is the best disinfectant stripe

If these sentiments have merit and they somehow prevail in the open market of ideas then so be it.

I don't know how you manage to miss them. Some of the posts on this thread are apologists for this point of view and most people here seem to know exactly what I am referring to.

[Bake]

64. This is a war. That's the way THEY look at it.

We need to look at it that way too.

Bake

[Cary]

71. I agree but for different reasons Bake.

They are sociopaths and there is no known cure or treatment for sociopaths. In fact attempts to treat them only educate them to be more effective sociopaths.

Now not all of them are sociopaths but they have allowed themselves to be hijacked by their radicals so there is just no way at the moment, at least that I know of, to sort out nonsociopathic individuals other than the very occasional David Frumm.

So yes, it is a war. Yes it is the way THEY look at it. But this is cyclical and we have seen this from them every 20 years or so. The moderates will eventually displace the crazies as long as we don't enable them by putting them in more positions of power.

[bowens43]

66. f*ck conservatives. I don't tolerate them in my life and I will not be nice.

[Maven]

69. It's "third way" DU. nt

[patrice]

90. Because something has not happened does not mean that it cannot happen. Please don't mistake

a label, 3rd way, for the specific conditions in a process under which a certain reaction could occur.

Analogy: There is a spot on the carpet.
I try spot remover #1; it doesn't remove the spot.
I try spot remover #2; it doesn't remove the spot.
Conclusion: Spot removers do not remove spots; trying a different spot remover won't remove this spot.

....................

All spots cannot be removed by any spot removers?
All spot removers cannot remove any spots?

[Autumn]

95. Remove the fucking carpet. Which is what we need to do with conservative and

republicans within the Democratic party. But your post is As Sid would say, try harder

[patrice]

99. Insult is the last resort of the resource-less. Tell me specifically what is wrong with that logic,

please.

[patrice]

100. You assume everyone CAN "remove the carpet" and those who can't DON'T MATTER. nt

[patrice]

101. Just LIKE Republicans assume everyone CAN earn a decent living & those who can't DON'T MATTER.

[patrice]

102. Just LIKE Republicans assume everyone CAN buy HC ins. & those who can't DON'T MATTER

[Autumn]

153. Oh you mean a REAL carpet. Shit I thought you were going all zen

try harder

[patrice]

103. BTW, you have heard about redistricting have you not?

[Maven]

230. Your analogy is so utterly flawed it's not worth unpacking.

I prefer my pith to your piety, however.

[patrice]

253. Beaneath you, huh? Please, oh please, favor us with the gift of your superior abilities, or I guess

we'll just have to assume that it is more likely that you can't.

[MADem]

75. I haven't seen any of those, but IMO, those conservatives can kiss my hairy old ass! nt

[Warpy]

83. I'm always nice to children, mental defectives, and psychotics.

However, I think it might be a plea not to stoop to their level.

Sorry, they've declared war on us, especially those of us who aren't white males with money. I don't just want them defeated. I want them humiliated to the point their hideous dogma is discredited forever as applying only to starving wolverines, never to human beings.

[bvar22]

93. Conservatives ARE my Political Enemies....

...whether they have a "D" or an "R" after their names.

Anyone who does not fully support these Traditional Democratic Values,
and actively fight to move the Country and the Democratic Party in this direction is my political enemy.

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be [font size=3]established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."
---Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt, Economic Bill of Rights, 1944

Please note that FDR listed the above as Basic Human Rights to be protected by our government,
and NOT Commodities to be sold to Americans by For Profit Corporations.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Capt. Obvious]

94. One person's "be nice to conservatives"

is another's "I don't wish them death"

OR

another's "I would donate blood to a conservative"

OR

another's "It's not nice to laugh at people losing their homes to wildfires"

[Odin2005]

105. They are DLC infiltrators.

The GOP cannot be reasoned with and we should not try. They need to be destroyed.

[patrice]

109. Chomsky self-identifies as a Conservative & says U.S. Conservatism has come to mean the opposite

of what Conservative actually means.

So, do we surrender this ground? Or take it back?

[RZM]

110. Taking apart simplistic arguments does not constitute 'heaping praise'

Here's the most amusing part of all of this:

A common refrain about conservatives is that they march in lockstep and lack intellectual curiosity. Yet some of the same people who say that turn around and demand that other liberals march in lockstep and condemn intellectual curiosity. Your op is the perfect example.

It's bad to take a different view than you, and it's bad to make even the most rudimentary inquiries into how conservatism really works. Instead we're supposed to get behind this 'they're crazy and stupid' nonsense without questioning it. Anybody who doesn't is branded a traitor/infiltrator/whatever. As if no true Scotsman/DUer could ever possibly take a nuanced view.

The irony is indeed thick.

[chervilant]

118. + a gazillion

I'm about to post something upthread that will surely get a few panties in a wad...

[Cary]

132. Pfeh

Sorry but I am nothing like the radical right.

This thing you have for false equivalence, that's what truly interests me. It is clearly a need. You are filling some kind void with this in a bizarre sort of way. My opening post was exactly about what you're doing here and it's also interesting that it strikes some kind of a nerve.

I don't pretend to understand this need of yours but there's nothing you can tell me that will convince me that you don't have some kind of dysfunctional issue. I just wish I understood your cognitive dissonance a little better.

[RZM]

139. I stand by my post

I think what you're defending are simplistic slogans and anti-intellectualism. And you're doing it in a dishonest way too, by characterizing in depth-discussion as 'heaping praise.'

Scratch the surface and you'll find the world is a very complex place. Rarely does it fit into neat little slogans designed to make you feel superior. It takes work to figure out what's really going on. Too bad you think that work is beneath you.

[Cary]

154. Right

This is so typical of your ilk. You could engage in the debate, find the points of agreement and disagreement and leave it at that. But no. You always have to turn it onto some kind of personal insult. You just have to have your ad hominem and to add insult to insult you project.

I am anything but anti-intellectual. I am a practicing attorney in a highly intellectual, specialized practice. I have a wonderful education and a sophisticated understanding of economics. I am a published author and I am highly respected on my community.

I run rings around you intellectually. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself for your cheap litlle tactics but you won't be.

[RZM]

160. If you're so smart, why did you post this OP in the wrong forum?

Here's the GD SOP:

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

And here's the Meta SOP:

Discuss Democratic Underground policies and procedures. Second-guess decisions by Juries, Hosts, and Administrators. Work through problems between members. Discuss the DU Community Standards. Bemoan the current state of DU.

[Cary]

162. I am smart enough to know when people are being jerks for no reason other than to be jerks

I am not smart enough to understand why you want to be a jerk. Are you smart enough to explain to me why you want to be a jerk?

I actually agree with you (assuming you're a real liberal) on like 99% of the issues yet you bend over backwards to pick these stupid fights.

[RZM]

166. I took issue with the OP because I think it's false

Not that disagreeing with me is a hanging offense. Hell, I disagree with me all the time. But very few people here advocate being 'nice' to conservatives. As a poster above mentioned, one person's 'nice' is another's 'it's sad that family lost their home in a fire.'

And another angle is the lazy dismissal of conservatives as 'stupid' and 'crazy,' as well as admonitions of posters who aren't entirely on board with those criticisms. You can see that all over this thread. Many replies have a positively Bushian 'with us or against us' quality. If you're not suitably angry, vicious, or wiling to go along with certain blanket characterizations of the other side, you're one of them.

That IS anti-intellectual. What this boils down to is the inherent difficult of really understanding what makes somebody else tick. That's very difficult to do, especially when that person's beliefs are so different from your own. That's why, IMO, you see so many false caricatures of conservatives here. This is a site full of liberals and any liberal is automatically at a disadvantage trying to get into a conservative's head, precisely because they aren't conservative. Same thing goes on in reverse on the conservative boards.

'Crazy' and 'stupid' are often just shorthand for 'I don't get what makes them tick,' because figuring that out is a difficult thing to do.

[Cary]

167. So you really ought to simply say that instead of launching into personal attacks

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. None at all. I see no reason for you to be a jerk about it though.

[RZM]

169. FYI

You've talked about my 'dysfunction,' repeatedly called me a 'jerk,' said I have 'some kind of issue,' and that you 'run rings around me intellectually.'

My original criticism was limited to your OP and your argument. It wasn't the nicest post ever, but I don't think it was all that personal. My issue was with your argument, not you personally. It certainly wasn't as personal as you got subsequently, though I'll admit that once you cranked it to 11, I followed suit.

It's a two-way street.

[Cary]

171. No, your original criticism wasn't limited to my argument.

I never start these things but like hell if I'm going to back down. If you're being a dysfunctional jerk then I don't see why I shouldn't call it as I see it.

Ever heard of the doctrine of unclean hands?

[Cary]

174. I have studied it all from Leo Straus to Ayn Rand to

Maury Rothbard to Jude Wanniski to Milton Friedman to Jean Kirkpatrick to Arthur Laffer to Robert Mundell and so on. And I have studied real conservatives, like Edmund Burke. My favorite professor, who was absolutely the most brilliant man I ever met in person, was extremely conservative. His name was Gray Dorsey and he taught jurisprudence, the only intellectually stimulating class in law school.

I know exactly what makes "conservatives" tick. They are attracted to the perverse, paint by number ideology proffered by the third rate science fiction writer/pseudo philosopher Ayn Rand. They have made a religion of her ideas and mostly they hate "Liberal" (and they define "Liberal" just as Goebels said that he decides who is Jewish).

They are fascists RZM. Their ideology is hate based and perverse. I could go on but "stupid" and "crazy" are the orders of the day for them. I did not arrive at these conclusions willingly or lightly.

And too I have studied history. I have a really good idea what I am talking about. That's not to say I might not be wrong but you're really off base in your claim that I don't get what makes them tick.

[KurtNYC]

206. Fits with my theory that the specific insults that people pick actually betray THEIR own

flaws and insecurities. They take the things that they personally found most hurtful when aimed at them and then they flip them.

[retread]

114. When someone is defecating in my mess kit, I'm not going to politely ask them to please stop.

[SpankMe]

120. I despise conservative thinking now more than ever.

I have a true hatred (not a good thing, I know) for the Republican perspective and for many Republicans.

They've become so outrageous and fucked up, that my hatred gives way to outright pity sometimes. When the pity cuts in, I do give them a little understanding.

[Octafish]

126. It helps move DU rightward.

This Forum was started for progressives and liberals and those who fight the good fight, like what the Democratic Party used to do.

[fascisthunter]

198. and it's been effective... up until now

I'll never forget my first instant message from somebody who used to post on DU, telling me I had no idea about DU. Well, I do now. Not that it was designed this way, but it's a perfect haven for think tank fascists to try to screw with real liberals and progressives.

[Octafish]

204. Professional Serfs.

For whom the paybell toils:



We laugh at such mental mites.

[HiPointDem]

243. +1. and boy is it moving.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

129. Who besides me jumped in here to look for somebody who was being nice?

[malaise]

130. Ignore the trolls

I'm passing - fuck every ReTHUG on the planet.

[Quantess]

133. On a personal level, sure. Be nice.

If they are family, be nice and avoid politics.
But regarding elected officials, or strangers, or even stupid tea baggers you don't know... no quarter!

[Jamaal510]

134. Every day, I find myself having an increasing

amount of disdain for the GOP and conservatives in general. The higher-ups on the right are so afraid of paying slightly higher taxes to help America that they dump billions into propaganda to dupe their dumb electorate to support policies that clash with their interests while exclusively favoring the elite. They want to dodge taxes, make more cuts to working-class programs, deprive women of the right to choose, deprive gays of the right to get married nationwide, enact voter suppression laws that subtly target minorities, and then pass this off as "fighting for freedom" while accusing the left of tyranny. I view the GOP as a real-life organization of super villains, and I can't decide who I hate more between their regressive-thinking voters or the sociopathic, big-whig Republicans who con them daily.

[RKP5637]

142. Yep, it's a damn vile combination. Republican elitists wanting to tear the

nation down and those with far far less supporting them with money and votes so they can further erode their lives. It really really all gets pretty weird IMO. Often I pause and wonder just how ignorant are many in the US. Has a stupid virus been unleashed.

[GopperStopper2680]

143. Let them eat horse Sh-t

As far as I'm concerned they can go ON the barbecue grill to feed the people in central Africa where their otherwise worthless flesh might find some use in this world.

[loyalsister]

144. Adulthood?

"Conservative" is being used as stereotype as opposed to a philosophy. The word has been stretched and perverted as much as the word liberal.

The most vociferous do not represent a majority. FOX news has plenty of viewers, but their style does not appeal to every single conservative. Just as the argumentative liberal leaning shows don't appeal to every single Democrat.

To demonize all rather than limiting the firestorms to the bad actors makes zero progress in turning things our way. It just perpetuates the anger to support conflict for the consumption of the masses.
There are people who identify themselves as conservative based on their family roots. Some just feel like it is cooler. Others have enough conservative beliefs to identify themselves as such, but are not associated with the kind of hatefulness we hear coming from the loudest.

If Democrats make it safe for them to come out of the woodwork and distance themselves from the nuttier element, we just might have a functional government again.

[Cali_Democrat]

150. Anyone imploring Dems to be nice to GOPers and befriend GOPers

is probably a GOPer.

Yep.

[Autumn]

159. Yep.

This thread sure made some things clear

[RZM]

207. FYI. Your admission that you were previously tombstoned is still visible

The only way to disappear the original and all subsequent edits is to self-delete the post.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

211. Uh-oh. You sly dog-- you got him monologing. :-)

[RZM]

223. Looks like they took my advice

They managed to post in the wrong forum and admit they were a zombie all in one thread.

Kind of funny for somebody who made a point of saying how smart they are.

[FSogol]

187. Good advice.

[Iggo]

155. I assume they treat me how they want to be treated.

[annabanana]

172. A nice barbecue, by all means.

Can I choose what's on the spit?

[Doctor_J]

173. One more response to this OP, then I am off

Here is an excerpt from an OP I made yesterday, containing just a very few of the recent initiatives from those with whom some of you would sing Kumbaya or reach an agreement. And remember, everyone who votes Republican this November is voting in favor of all of these atrocities

Jan Brewer Asks Supreme Court To Strip Benefits of Same-Sex Partners

Worst TB outbreak in 20 years kept secret

Joe Walsh (scumbag-IL) criticizes Tammy Duckworth for talking about her military service

Wisconsin Lawmaker Introduces Law To Classify Single Parenthood As Child Abuse

Rick Parry Turns Down ACA

SC Gov. Nikki Haley calls raped and battered women "distractions" that don't matter

[RZM]

175. No sale

That's no different than saying:

'Everyone who votes Democratic this November is voting in favor of the drone strikes/medical marijuana prosecutions/whatever.'

I guess you could say that, because those are policies of this administration. But you seem to be trying to conflate one's vote with every one of their positions. Rarely does anybody support every last position of any candidate. And they sure as hell don't support every event or soundbite you could drag up in a country of over 300 million people. You could find plenty of Republican voters who disapprove of all or most of those things, just as you could find many Democratic voters who oppose this or that policy or quote from a Democratic figure.

Broad brushing breaks down fairly quickly in a two-party system. For most people, it's one or the other. And that's almost always going to result in voting for people who may support or not support things that are important to you.

Just look at DU. How many support every action of every Democrat? I'd bet that number is close to zero. Why would the other side be any different?

[fascisthunter]

194. sorry, but soft gloves are not working.

it was effective for the GOP to take advantage of, but it is no more.

[Doctor_J]

210. well, then the "conservatives" are REALLY in luck

because in addition to mmj prosecutions, drone strikes, domestic spying, looser gun laws, etc., they ALSO get Jan Brewer, Joe Walsh, Nikky Haley, and the rest of the fascist juggernaut.

[RZM]

212. They get what they vote for. Just like we do

It's a cold world, yo.

[notadmblnd]

177. there are lots of people here that think Dems should always take the high road

However, It is my experience that the high road has never gotten us anywhere. Repukes are like bullies and being nice to bullies only get you bullied more. It's when you stand up and give them a dose of their own medicine that they finally see the light and leave you alone.

[smirkymonkey]

209. +1000

Winner. Thank YOU.

[fascisthunter]

193. most are called centrist trolls who are pushing us to the right

the rest are lost

[RZM]

215. Maybe some are. But you should at least acknowledge the RW moles

There are plenty who promote violence, intolerance, and unconstitutional authoritarianism to make the left sound like Stalinist fucks.

[Odin2005]

196. I'm sick of all the Neville Chamberlains trying to appease the RW crazies.

[RZM]

216. Chamberlain's choices were appeasement or war. Does that mean you want war?

BTW, Hitler WANTED war in 1938. He was unhappy about Munich, which is why he went ahead and broke his word 6 months later and annexed the Czech lands and transformed Slovakia into a puppet state.

By making the Chamberlain comparison, you are essentially arguing that civil war is the better option that continuing life as we know it.

BTW, I think the allies should have told Hitler to fuck himself at Munich and invited war. But I don't think we should be gearing up for civil war now.

[Doctor_J]

219. Does that mean you want appeasement?

Sounds like it.

[RZM]

220. I don't want civil war

The difference is that I don't consider articulating Democratic positions and voting Democratic at the polls to be 'appeasement.' But I do consider war to be war.

That's the difference.

If your violent fantasies were ever played out, you'd be gone and forgotten in a week. It's time to give it up and join the slog with the rest of us.

The solution isn't anger and hate, it's conviction and strength at the polls. Hateful rhetoric doesn't persuade people. Reason does.

[Zalatix]

240. Wrong. We need to rattle their cages as hard as we can.

Make fun of them, harass them with protests, get Anonymous to hack the HELL out of them, follow them around with cameras like they do us, make life as miserable as possible until they decide that living around us and near us is completely intolerable. Boycott their businesses, exclude them, verbally abuse them, make it known that we don't want them around in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

Provoke THEM into a civil war. Or provoke them into leaving.

[Zalatix]

242. Wait, what? Tantrum much?

Make fun of them, harass them with protests, get Anonymous to hack the HELL out of them, follow them around with cameras like they do us, make life as miserable as possible until they decide that living around us and near us is completely intolerable. Boycott their businesses, exclude them, verbally abuse them, make it known that we don't want them around in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

That's all legal, except what Anonymous already does. Nothing authoritarian there, my reactionary friend.

You don't have the power to force me out of America, or force me to play nice with Conservatives, or force me to associate with them AT ALL. And I know that stings.

[Cary]

222. Our system is a perpetual war

That is exactly what the Founders envisioned except with ballots, not bullets. I seriously doubt we will have a civil war. Our history and tradition may be intangible but the tangible Constitution is nothing without that history and tradition. And I suggest that the history and tradition is probably more difficult to wipe away than perhaps you imagine it to be.

[Odin2005]

224. If that is the only alternative to appeasement, then yes.

The Western Democracies should have stopped Hitler as soon has he re-occupied the Saarland and started re-arming Germany. Hitler was preparing for a world war the moment he took power, like any bully he took appeasement as weakness, while the Democracies thought they could reason with him.

[RZM]

225. So you want to kill your fellow citizens for having different views?

Like I said, voting Democratic isn't appeasement. It's how the system is supposed to work.

If you're arguing that war is the only answer, I don't see how you're different from the warmongering neocons. Except you're worse, because you want to kill your fellow citizens.

Get a fucking grip. Seriously.

[Odin2005]

226. I don't want war, I'm sick of trying to prevent it by...

...capitulating to fascists over and over again and calling it "compromise". I want progressive policies rammed down their throats and if they start shooting then we should shoot back.

[RZM]

227. But what if they don't start shooting?

Are you going to shoot first?

Because if the answer is no, then we're in agreement. I think this shit should be fought out in the court of public opinion and at the polls.

If you're arguing that you should shoot first, then you're a violent authoritarian and your views are thoroughly anti-Democratic and un-American. We don't play that shit. We settle our political differences through non-violent means. Anybody arguing different doesn't believe in what we've built here. It may be ugly sometimes, but it's better than settling the matter with bullets.

Take your pick.

[Odin2005]

228. I hope they don't shoot, But I expect that they will.

I hope that does not happen, but given the similarities between RW Hate Radio and the radio announcers in Rwanda who incited the genocide there in '94 I'm not optimistic. So, no, I reject shooting first.

[RZM]

229. Ok then. Let O'Shea Jackson rap your fantasies

[Zalatix]

235. "But I don't think we should be gearing up for civil war now."

Wow, that sounds like exactly what the North said right before the Dred Scott decision.

I wonder how that turned out.

[RZM]

236. So what are you waiting for?

Nobody's stopping you from declaring war on those who disagree with you. Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is and see where it gets you.

If you don't, I'll assume you're talking a bunch of shit and aren't serious.

[Zalatix]

237. I already boycott the hell out of them and exclude them from my life.

The war is on, economically.

Next?

[RZM]

238. So you practice war with your dollar, but only play on war with everything else

That's cool. Nothing wrong with spending your money how you wish. But as long as you're encouraging real war without offering any sacrifice as your own . . . well . . . you know.

[Zalatix]

239. The South fired the first shot.

And considering how many guns and how much ammo my family has, if that happens, they better not miss, because they won't get a second shot at anything on MY property.

I'm geared, dude/dudette.

[Odin2005]

261. +1,000,000,000,000

[Trailrider1951]

217. Hey, I'm nice to some conservatives, the ones who have that lightbulb go off above their heads

when they finally realize that I'm telling the truth and making sense. You know, the ones that have heard too much from Liar Limpballs that just doesn't match their down-home, in-your-face experience of exorbitant insurance premiums AND medical bills, despite the insurance. And other crap, like how women who use contraceptives are SLUTS. Boy, talk about your "Come-to-Jesus-moment"! I'll bet that nearly half his listeners, Men and Women ditched is ass within 5 seconds of hearing that.

The others? Well, there finally comes a time when I realize that they're too far down the rabbit hole to spend another minute on. Peace be with you.

[Romulox]

247. The OP had this (bizarre!) call for "moderation" just two days ago. Can't make up her mind? nt

[Romulox]

264. Notice he doesn't deny it, folks. This guy is yanking your chains. nt

[pintobean]

271. I was #2

Hope you checked the box for further review.

[Romulox]

272. Thank you, pintobean!

I hope it's not weird to tell you that you're named after one of my favorite foods. I see your name, and I think: "Lunch!"

[seabeyond]

257. lol, really? havent seen the posts you refer to, but, huh. lol. nt

[Romulox]

265. He's talking about HIS OWN posts! He's surely having a larf at our expense! nt

[seabeyond]

267. ahhh. well, see, that is more of a huh. lol. i have not been in GD a lot. thanks. nt

[Romulox]

268. Here ya go: "What happened to the art of moderation?", started by Cary, Tue Jul 10, 2012, 12:07 PM

He's calling for "moderation" two days ago, and he's calling for a purge today!

Har har har!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=925643

[seabeyond]

270. romulox, thank you. i did see that thread. a couple times. i never went in. thought it crap,

asking for moderation with repugs, lol. ignored it.

wow.... gutsey display of gamemanship here. hm....

not gonna read this whole thread to see if i can figure out the posters intent. but, whatever, it is odd.

thanks