Nutter bans Apple purchases over environmental fudging

[FarCenter]

The city authorities of San Francisco have banned departmental purchases of Apple hardware after Cupertino dropped out of the Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool (EPEAT) green-standards scheme.

"We are disappointed that Apple chose to withdraw from EPEAT," Melanie Nutter, director of San Francisco's Department of Environment, told The Wall Street Journal, "and we hope that the city saying it will not buy Apple products will make Apple reconsider its participation."

City government departments are only part of the deal. Local educational facilities – a sector in which Cupertino is dominant – also require EPEAT classification, and will likely end up boycotting Apple products, as well.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/10/san_francisco_nutter_apple_ban/

[Drale]

1. Honestly I don't think Government Bodies should be using Apple products

I know everyone around here loves Apple but its so freaking over priced for what you get and this is a place were we can cut down expenses without hurting anyone.

[MadHound]

2. Apple gives huge discounts to schools and such,

And many times simply gives them computers.

[Xyzse]

11. I think for a different reason

Currently, Apple has not kept up with net security and virus protection like the others.
This pretty much was due to it not being as widespread and as such not as susceptible to viruses as many didn't used to bother.
Still, due to their proprietary nature, it does allow them certain leeway in making their machines seemingly run faster.

However, if you're dealing with file look up and more office related issues, rather than just something that seems built from a net based perspective, I'd still have to go for the way Windows handles their file system.

Stating that, Apple is great for certain users. Mainly, the bottom part where applications can be made very simple for say point of sales, menu taking and so forth. It is also great for CEOs because for mail handling, communication and so forth, it is great for presentation.

Still, when dealing with actual computing, nuts and bolts work, I'd still have to suggest a Windows machine due to data handling, ability to manipulate the actual machine if things go wrong, and stuff like that.

However, with many things heading towards a cloud storage based method, it is possible that we'll end up with boxes that connect to a cloud service doing all the computing. So it could go in to either OS, though I believe Windows is more in to that.

[cliffordu]

22. Well...I'll give you an A for effort.

Your post could be the single biggest argument for buying and using a Mac I have ever seen......

[Xyzse]

23. Uh, thank you?

I mean, I personally prefer Windows, however I understand the strengths that can allow a Mac to work in a business environment.

If you go looking around different places, they still use a system that go for windows, with a net app or a dos app. Macs, particularly if you go for the iPad, one can easily create a shiny looking interface that would be great for end-users. For presentation, management can use their iPads or Macbooks for that simply because the interface is somewhat easier and neat.

Granted, Windows 8 has tried to make strides towards that end.

The problem I have with Macs, as per mentioned is that they are not easily upgradeable, personally serviced(you'd have to go to their stores), their file system/search feature, and limitations. Also, if you're talking about security, once more viruses get made for it, they really need to step up their game. However, for a day to day user who doesn't need to care about nuts and bolts, it is great, besides it makes the bosses happy(particularly those who care about self-image, as Apple has cornered the market for that).

Still, as I mentioned, the trend seems to be going towards Cloud based services. If such is the case, it is conceivable that you would end up with a simple box that you connect to for your computing needs, which they will automatically upgrade for you. I don't like it, but that seems to be where we're heading.

[Poll_Blind]

21. As MadHound mentioned, Apple (at least in the past) used to give HUGE...

....discounts in order to get their products in academia, from students to professors. AFAIK, this has actually been going on from the mid-to-late 80's, if you can believe that. If it weren't for this positioning, IMO, Apple computers would be in a far worse position, market-share wise and their non-computer products would be relegated to the "suspicious" category. Furthermore, over the course of Apple's history I'd rate their products as overall inferior, over-priced and extremely unfriendly when it comes to upgrading/customization.

However, by getting their foot in the door with students & faculty (in this instance), they've managed to get a pretty large number of Lifetime Adopters who will basically put up with the hassles or worse, yet count themselves lucky for being in the pool of the "select". This scam is one of the most excellent marketing manipulations of a large group of people since Pot Pot came down from the mountains with his machete-wielding Cambodian hillbillies.

Nationalism without a nation. Pure social corporatism. An entire class of intelligentsia without actual intelligence.

To be clear, though, I'm not saying Apple users aren't intelligent. I'm talking specifically about the marketing strategy employed, the social status quid pro quo as part of the purchase.

PB

[MadHound]

3. So which is more environmentally responsible,

Buying a computer that you're not going to have to replace for a decade, or buying computers that have to be replaced every two or three years?

Me, I'll stick with the computer that lasts a decade or longer.

[FarCenter]

4. I don't think anyone has a two or three year replacement cycle anymore

By 2008, the cycle for laptops was 4 or 5 years, and many desktops were stretched beyond that.

With the economic downturn, I'm guessing there are a lot of companies going for 7 years on desktops by now, and 5 years on laptops.

These are for the commercial versions, not the Best Buy retail stuff.

[MadHound]

6. Even if that is the case,

Seven years for a PC vs a decade or more for a Mac? Again, which is greener?

[frylock]

12. i don't know of any companies that use a computer for 10 years..

tech refreshes usually occur every three years.

[MadHound]

20. Check out your local schools and government offices,

You'll find plenty of old computers, mostly Macs, still being used on a daily basis.

[Xyzse]

24. You're kidding.

Macbooks and support for them need to be replaced every few years.
You will note that because Macs are harder to upgrade, support for them in changing to the newer OS is very limited.
Not just that, because of the way they are made you can't use newer software and could barely find older versions of a software to run on an older Mac.

So I can't quite agree with your statement.

However, this is in regards to personal usage. Workplaces though, and schools, many use x86 type hardware more than Macs.

[MadHound]

27. What, you want me to go into my local school district and take a picture?

Seriously, I teach, I know the kind of tech that our schools are using, both good and bad. Just because you don't want to believe what I say doesn't make me a liar, it just shows your own personal bias or disconnection from reality.

As far as the ability to upgrade Macs, who said they were being upgraded? Most that are still in service are still using their original hardware, a testament to Macs' durability and longevity. Hell, I'm writing this on a nine year old eMac that is still going strong.

As far as software upgrades go, they can and are easily upgraded to use newer OS and new software. Again, my computer is proof of this.

I'm sorry, but your post simply displays your ignorance of Macs, perhaps you should rectify that.

[Xyzse]

28. No, I mean, I believe you

In regards to the durability of the hardware.
For all intents and purposes, I remember machines that still use the 5.25 disk that has its OS there. This up to the year 2002. Heck, I know that there are still x86 Win 95 machines out there.

In regards to hardware upgrading, yes, I agree that many don't bother and just use that self-same stuff they've been using for years, but my point is that if you need a more powerful machine, you can't just upgrade your machine, you'd have to buy a new one.

In regards to software upgrading, I have a Mac Laptop which can't be upgraded to a newer OS since it does not have the newer Intel Processor. As such, some programs needed, particularly video player software that are out there can't be installed in to it. One would have to try to find and buy a past iteration of it. (Have you ever had to personally re-install the OS in to a Mac without the help of a "Genius"? Re-installing programs were hellish especially if you have to try to find one that would work on an older OS. I actually had better luck making a hackintosh.)

Also, if you read the post I made, my comment was in regards to personal usage initially, while saying that with "Workplaces though, and schools, many use x86 type hardware more than Macs." at least in my experience. This since for a while, many older machines still use DOS based programs which they ran through very old x86 machines. In schools, it really depends where you are I think. The ones I've been lately had more windows machines than macs, especially since they do programming classes, where compilers are installed in to windows.

[FarCenter]

32. Older Apple computers left out of Mountain Lion upgrade

With the final release of Mountain Lion reaching developers this week, it's a strong sign that we'll see the consumer release pretty soon, perhaps as early as next week.

The official system requirements have also been published on Apple's Web site and they indicate that some older Macs won't be able to upgrade to Mountain Lion. According to Apple, the following systems will support the new OS:
•iMac (Mid 2007 or newer)
•MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)
•MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer)
•MacBook Air (Late 2008 or newer)
•Mac mini (Early 2009 or newer)
•Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer)
•Xserve (Early 2009)

http://asia.cnet.com/older-apple-computers-left-out-of-mountain-lion-upgrade-62217758.htm

It's the end of the line for Apple computers with 32-bit EFI, even if they have 64-bit capable processors.

The Power chips were left behind a while back.

[2ndAmForComputers]

33. Linux the shit out of these fuckers.

[Romulox]

30. Macbook batteries (same Lith-Ion as everybody else!) last a couple of years at best, too. nt

[Romulox]

29. The stuff inside macs (hard drives, ram, fans, graphics chips, etc.) are largely identical to PCs.

Macs are made in the same factory that produces most of the world's PCs and laptops.

[onehandle]

5. 'Fudging?' Apple voluntarily withdrew from a standard that is getting harder to follow...

...due to trends in technology for more in smaller spaces. Analysts are saying that EPEAT's days are numbered. Apple is just being ahead of the curve, as usual.

Where's the 'fudging?'

Journalmalism.

American-owned Apple is still rated the greenest electronics maker.

[Kablooie]

7. I heard the reason they pulled out some of their products...

One of the standards is that the computer must be easy to disassemble to recycle the parts.
Apple's recent products are so compact that parts are glued in together to decrease space.
Glued parts can't be easily disassembled so they don't comply with the environmental standards.

[onehandle]

8. Apple responds to EPEAT concerns

“Apple takes a comprehensive approach to measuring our environmental impact and all of our products meet the strictest energy efficiency standards backed by the US government, Energy Star 5.2,” Apple representative Kristin Huguet, told The Loop. “We also lead the industry by reporting each product’s greenhouse gas emissions on our website, and Apple products are superior in other important environmental areas not measured by EPEAT, such as removal of toxic materials.”

It’s important to note that in addition to not measuring toxins and other environmental areas, EPEAT also doesn’t measure smartphones or tablets. Clearly these are two areas that are vitally important for Apple and not covered by EPEAT.

Companies like Dell have 171 products listed on EPEAT, but yet if you look on Dell’s Web site, none of their computers are even Energy Star Compliant.

By its own admission, the EPEAT certifications are old.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/07/10/apple-responds-to-epeat-concerns

[HopeHoops]

9. Part of the problem is the "disassemble with ordinary tools" clause.

Ever try to take apart an iPod?

[onehandle]

10. That's exactly the reason they pulled out. The solution is easy.

Any Apple product that you return to Apple, they will disassemble and recycle.

Unfortunately, outdated EPEAT doesn't consider for that.

All electronics manufacturing is heading to this model. EPEAT will eventually be re-designed, or scrapped.

[HopeHoops]

13. It will be scrapped. Apple helped create it, but it doesn't account for current technology.

And no, Apple doesn't "recycle" the shit. Most of it goes into landfills and they only melt off the precious metals from the circuit boards. The casings and screens are useless. They call it recycling, but that's a real stretch of the concept.

[onehandle]

14. As much as 90% of the material is recovered, none goes to landfills...

'When you recycle with Apple, your used equipment is disassembled, and key components that can be reused are removed. Glass and metal can be reprocessed for use in new products. A majority of the plastics can be pelletized into a raw secondary material. With materials reprocessing and component reuse, Apple often achieves a 90 percent recovery rate by weight of the original product.

Apple meets the requirements of the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and Their Disposal. All e-waste collected by Apple-controlled voluntary and regulatory programs worldwide is processed in the region in which it was collected. Our recyclers must comply with all health and safety laws, and we do not allow the use of prison labor. Apple recyclers do not dispose of hazardous electronic waste in solid-waste landfills or incinerators. For an example of the stringent processing and operational controls Apple places on its directly contracted recyclers, read an excerpt from our recycler requirements agreement.'

http://www.apple.com/recycling/includes/recycles-responsibly.html

And you get paid to recycle by Apple:

http://www.apple.com/recycling/gift-card

[HopeHoops]

15. You believe that? Take a look at the casings. You need a fucking sledge hammer to disassemble them

[onehandle]

17. Call me crazy, but I would guess that the Manufacturer has the tools...

...to disassemble their own product.

[HopeHoops]

18. Operative is "commonly available tools". I've got tools out the wazoo and couldn't take one apart.

Seriously. I've got damn near every hand tool that's made and couldn't get inside an iPod to save me (without the sledge hammer). Maybe they do crack the damn things open, but you can't disassemble or repair them. When they die, they're dead, nada, kaput. I think Apple made the right decision here because they know they aren't complying with the standard they helped to write. It's only going to get worse.

[FarCenter]

19. How to take apart an iPod

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-Touch-4th-Generation-Teardown/3562/1

[HopeHoops]

26. I don't think a spudger counts as a common tool. I like my sledge hammer solution better.

[GeorgeGist]

25. That would be Foxconn.

[Uncle Joe]

16. You have made a series of good posts on this thread, onehandle, it seems like EPEAT is behind

the curve.

[Romulox]

31. LOL. They're gluing in batteries and other components so users can't service them. Fans cheer! nt