General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA general observation: Why it's futile to argue with a Deplorable. The problem is YOU.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/i-was-offered-a-22-bullet-mom-who-shared-sons-surgery-bill-online-got-deluge-of-death-threats/Chandras now-3-year-old son Ethan was born with a birth defect called heterotaxy syndrome, a rare condition that can cause any of the internal organs to be malformed, misplaced, multiplied, or missing altogether. ... The bill she posted online was for a surgery totaling $231,115 in fees. Thanks to rules put in place by the ACA President Barack Obamas signature domestic policy achievement Chandra was only charged $500.
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The attacks grew increasingly personal and increasingly violent, she wrote. Strangers were telling me it would have been cheaper to make a new kid, as if anyone in the history of the world could ever replace this bright light of mine, the boy who loves animals and cant keep himself from kissing babies and always wants to sleep with one arm wrapped around my neck.
I was offered a .22 bullet, although Im still not sure whom he meant it for, me or my child, Chandra said. Right-wing commenters began spreading rumors that Chandra was a foreigner or, worse, a terrorist because a self-described white girl from New Jersey couldnt possibly be named Ali Chandra.
She said she tried to reason with some of these angry attackers, but then realized they werent listening to anything she said.
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There was this other OP here on DU, about using Bible-quotes against Conservatives. That's not how this works.
You can point to facts all you want, you can throw the Bible back in their face all you want, it simply doesn't count.
Want to know why?
Because you are an unbeliever, you are scum, you are subhuman: Nothing you say counts to them. Their issue is not with the objective facts or the Bible-quotes you are citing: They have an issue with YOU.
"Oh, that's your education talking."
You could, for example, read out the Declaration of Independence, and the Deplorables will agree that the Declaration of Independence is bad because YOU read it.
Some piece of shit could run amok, and the Deplorables will jump to his defense and call him a lone wolf, a disturbed person in need of psychological help as soon as they hear he's white.
If an atheist quotes the Bible, it doesn't count.
If a white person commits an act of terror, it doesn't count.
If a woman needs healthcare, it doesn't count.
If a mother tells how Obamacare saved the life of her child, it doesn't count.
Because YOU are not one of THEM.
And the newest incarnation of that extremism is the habit of labeling something as "fake news" if you don't like the messenger. As Donald Trump put it so eloquently:
"The leaks are real, the news are fake."
JI7
(89,249 posts)they have already proven they don't pay attention, either have none or no interest in reason .
what it comes down to is they have ugly hateful feelings just like trump and identify with it. they will try to cover it by giving some fake excuse but they are mostly hateful types who have no interest in reason.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Vogon_Glory
(9,117 posts)I still believe that we can reach some bystanders and perhaps a single-digit percentage will have that long dark night of the soul and will need a familiar framework to reconsider their folly.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I am so depressed about the mess we are in. How can so many people go along with this evil when it is clear that we are in a death spiral toward third-world status?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)PJMcK
(22,037 posts)In spite of any interference, Trump has a lot of supporters.
Vogon_Glory
(9,117 posts)The Obama recovery is grinding to a halt. I think the ACA will be safe, but many of the programs retired Trumpkins and dittoheads depend on are going to get cut. Add a recession with a right-wing Congress and a lot of Trumpkins will learn that they were playing at a very expensive hobby, one they couldn't afford.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Maggiemayhem
(809 posts)It is an endless circular firing squad. Also, these people NEED authority and are so easily manipulated. Not an original thought anywhere to be found.
Bear Creek
(883 posts)They are still going strong. What they are upset about is that the GOP has not not made it hard enough for them yet. Of course they have jobs and almost all of the ones on assistance. They think the democrats put them on assistance to keep them down. Then there is the justification that they deserve and someone else does not. It is god's will. The GOPers who work is because of their relatives or go to the right church got them the job, example needing highly technical science degree and say they have a photography journalist degree and get the job. They believe you do not help anyone and throw road blocks up that way they can tell if the person really wants to make it. If your poor you need to only get a job that serves them.
There is a cult or really it is clan. If you are not indoctrinated and a true believer you are from satan. When you do go to college and still read to learn you get comments of it is immoral because you are trying to be like god. They really do want Sharia law but the want it christian. During the gulf war that was all they talked about and how they could make it happen. Was told that women and men cannot work together because there will affection and that is wrong. Lets not forget the 2nd amendment because what they really believe is that they are entitled to any military weapon not just M16s.
Juliusseizure
(562 posts)Most would voted Republican anyway. If Trump ran as an independent it's very unlikely he would have won. I think it helps to think that way.
I think the crazies get all the attention. But I think they're loyalty is to the Republican party. They won't switch parties if Trump goes
There is extreme partisanship that he's exacerbating. He's dividing the country and inflating the negative because there's no real reason to vote for him. He relies on people voting against the other party because his goal is self-enrichment and in conflict with what he promised.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)1/3 of the country is lost, fully in board with conservatism, another 1/3 are so muddled up, they believe the "they are both the same" bullshit, either don't vote or participate in politics or tend to side with whoever is screaming the loudest.
Our 1/3 is pushing mud.
The country is in a freefall despite our efforts and we won't hit the bottom until the other 2/3 turns around.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)mgardener
(1,816 posts)Then they have won.
And I will do everything in my power to stop them.
You may not make a difference in the first few tries, but never, ever give up.
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)I know most people on DU are not regular listeners of Rush Limbaugh. Neither am I actually, but I know how he's hooked too many people into becoming regular listeners/fans/mental zombies.
I gave him a listen probably about 25 years ago when he was first on his own show, and I think he was still in Pittsburgh then. But even in the early '90s he was completely, ridiculously AGAINST anything having to do with "libruls" or the Clintons. That was all he ever talked about and he assumed his listeners were all in agreement. I say that because he never actually explained what he believed in, or why he thought conservative politics/philosophy was better. Everything was just black and white, we hate all the "libruls," we love all the conservatives.
I found this completely boring and predictable and not worth my time, so I stopped listening to him after 3 or 4 days. But he hooked a lot of people even then who aren't critical thinkers and who needed to be told that THING A is good and THING B is bad, because they can't figure it out for themselves. I believe Limbaugh's technique (whether he invented it or just perfected it) is used every day on Fox News as well as the hate-radio shows proliferating across America.
We at DU will never be fans of Rush Limbaugh, but we come across the many people who do listen to him - every day. We need to know how to protect ourselves and how to respond to this type of black & white thinking. I agree that it's never going to change that person, but once in a while it might be possible to make them stop and think rather than give a knee-jerk reaction to everything.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)As HRC was saying when she made her comment about a basket of deplorables, there is another basket of Trump voters who do not fit into that category. Those are the folks that are potentially reachable (and wouldn't send death threats online).
griloco
(832 posts)Not that they are stupid, just marks like Bernie Madoff's marks highlighted by "Bobby Bonilla Day."
"After his subpar 1999 season, the Mets released Bonilla, but still owed him $5.9 million. Bonilla and his agent offered the Mets a deal: Bonilla would defer payment for a decade, and the Mets would pay him an annual paycheck of $1.19 million starting in 2011 and ending in 2035, adding up to a total payout of $29.8 million.[16][17] Mets owner Fred Wilpon accepted the deal mostly because he was heavily invested with Ponzi scheme operator Bernie Madoff, and the 10 percent returns he thought he was getting on his investments with Madoff outweighed the 8 percent interest the Mets would be paying on Bonilla's initial $5.9 million. As a result, the payout was a subject of inquiry during the Madoff investment scandal." Wikipedia
lindysalsagal
(20,686 posts)billionaire to validate them and the free internet to broadcast their tantrums.
Plus, they gain confidence from the merging of other tantrums. The really pathetic thing is that the interwebs were supposed to enlighten everyone and extend learning. Instead, it gives momentum to their volume rather than their understanding.
They can cherry-pick their in-formation to suit their victim status. "Wa-wa- I want to dig coal and I don't care if no one wants to buy and burn it. Wa-wa."
dalton99a
(81,488 posts)They've already taken over AM radio, and they see the Internet as another vehicle for RW propaganda. It worked spectacularly for Trump.
dalton99a
(81,488 posts)They just want to kill and destroy
Bear Creek
(883 posts)[link:http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/fundamentalism-racism-fear-and-propaganda-an-insider-explains-why-rural-christian-white-america-will-never-change/|
From my own experience pretty much covers it.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)brutus smith
(685 posts)the longer it will take to move forward. There is no getting thru.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)matter the trades; no matter the ticket, parking, food, and souvenir prices.
Republicans are their TEAM.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)It's to help show others that are listening/reading just how bat-shit insane Trump supporters really are.
Publicly humiliating them just makes them madder, but that's not the point.
WePurrsevere
(24,259 posts)Over the years I've seen logic and facts reach people on the fence. I've even seen some that apparently some Democrats, etc would have given up on.
The thing is that sometimes beliefs, fears, etc are so deeply ingrained that real info & facts take time to sink in. I know from my own experiences using forums, chats, etc online though that it does reach more people than we think, even if it's not always the ones we 'see'. I'm glad to see you seem to get that... please never give up.
marked50
(1,366 posts)and it dovetails with the John Dean article about Authoritarian Supporters that another DU posted
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029300605
The only thing I would disagree with in this OP is that there is nothing about Trump that can be called eloquent.
It's the trendy thing to do - they aren't supporting Donald, they're just being "cool" or "funny". The only defense I have is to remain stone faced and never respond or react to the latest "in" behavior.
Nobody will ever ask what I think of The Donald. They don't care; they just see him as a means to an end - making people who they consider to be "evil", "the enemy", whatever feel bad. If you do not react, they do not know what to do. They may try to provoke you - obviously the best bet there is to continue to not react.
So I agree with the o/p and I believe that there are effective ways to make them feel less like they are "winning". They really hate it when I sit there and do not react to their moronic bigoted jokes. The fact that I can see them trying to provoke me through looking out of the corner of my eyes and have the feeling that they want to shoot me means that is an effective strategy.