Police: Williams legally entered intersection before crash

[malaise]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tennis/police-williams-legally-entered-intersection-before-crash/ar-BBDYf5Y?li=BBnb7Kz
<snip>
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) -- Tennis star Venus Williams legally entered an intersection but was cut off by another car, setting off a chain of events that seconds later resulted in a fatal crash with a third car, police say video released Friday shows.

The video, taken by a security camera, shows Williams heading north as she stops her 2010 Toyota Sequoia SUV at a stoplight behind a white car as she exits her Palm Beach Gardens neighborhood shortly after 1 p.m. June 9.

When the light turns green, the white car turns left onto a six-lane, heavily traveled boulevard, but Williams heads straight. A dark colored sedan turns left in front of her, causing her to stop.

--------------------------------
Ah well.

[oasis]

1. I hope this gets as much attention as the initial report. nt

[malaise]

3. Don't hold your breath

Maybe now the 'grifting' lawyer will back off.

[cwydro]

60. I just watched a story on it.

CNN.

How do you miss all these stories?

She's been exonerated. Not that she did anything wrong to begin with.

Venus is gonna be just fine.

[Are_grits_groceries]

63. Up until the last 24 hours,

Venus was found to be at fault by the police. They found a security tape from some building that captured the accident and gave them a clear view of what happened. They revised their position.

The OP has kept up with the storyline. This was posted because of the change. The change is important in light of the lawsuit.

Venus will be fine. However, she has clearly been bothered by the accident and the fact she was at fault thus helping to cause a death.

[cwydro]

64. And it's been all over the news.

Daily. Hourly.

Any tennis fan has heard nothing but.

Somehow I doubt the OP would care if this story involved say, Wozniaki or any other random player.

There are enough reasons for real outrage in the world without trying to gin up a fake one.

[wryter2000]

71. She won't be fine emotionally

And the initial version of what happened won't help

[malaise]

70. Miss what - this thread is about the police saying she did nothing wrong n/t

[erpowers]

11. CBS Evening News Reported The Story

This was the second or third story on tonight's CBS Evening News. It was also promoted in the show opening.

[cwydro]

61. Somehow the op misses these stories.

Smh.

[TexasProgresive]

2. That's what I heard in the first report.

That she entered the intersection on a green light and was stopped. Then she proceeded and hit the other car. The other car, in my opinion, should not have moved into the intersection as Williams' car was still in the intersection.

[malaise]

7. I read that the other car hit her

Glad they went public with the correction - the family lawyer was pushing an aggressive 'get money' line.

[LisaL]

29. The other car hit her, but the other car at that time had the right of way, since their light was

green. And William's wasn't.

[malaise]

31. Read the report at the link please

You seem way too eager to blame Venus.

[LisaL]

39. And you seem to be very eager to blame the driver whose husband died.

When that car had the right of way because it had a green light.

[writes3000]

52. If the woman had simply looked ahead and entered the intersection slowly....

As anyone should with a recently turned light, then the accident might not have happened. As it stands, Venus entered the intersection when her light was green. She avoided an accident when a driver made a turn in front of her, causing her to slow down. Since Venus was still in the intersection, she needed to complete her turn to get out of the intersection. Anyone racing into that intersection without looking ahead is asking for trouble.

I'm glad the police rescinded their statement placing blame on Venus. Its an accident and she was trying to drive responsibly the whole time.

[NutmegYankee]

59. She technically has the responsibility to not hit a car she can see.

Just because the light is green doesn't make it legal to smash into a car stuck in the intersection. She is responsible for her husbands death.

[LisaL]

65. Williams car wasn't stopped at the moment of collision, it was moving.

[NutmegYankee]

68. Slowly, attempting to clear the intersection.

It is basic traffic law to yield to traffic still in the intersection.

[Demsrule86]

66. I saw a car hit another car in an intersection...clearly the drive saw the other car.

She had the right of way damn it and that car better move...only it couldn't.

[mainer]

77. Even if your light has just turned green

You don't have the right to hit another car that's still in the intersection. That's just crazy that anyone thinks it's OK to just plow ahead into another car "because my light just turned GREEN!"

[malaise]

83. +1,000

That's the truth

[we can do it]

88. Sorry the man died, but it was his wife's fault.

Too many terrible drivers want to blame everyone else and cash in.

[phylny]

95. You are correct.

When my light turns green, before I proceed, not only do I look AHEAD of me to see that it's clear, but I look to the left and right to make sure no one is running their red light.

The only reason anyone is suing is because they see it as easy money.

[LiberalFighter]

96. I do the same.

[tammywammy]

98. That's what I was taught back in 1996 in driving school

When the light turns green you need to pause and check both directions before proceeding - especially since so many run red lights (though that wasn't the case for Venus).

[amuse bouche]

49. Just because the light is green, doesn't mean you dismiss common sense

[58Sunliner]

56. The other car...

"No vehicle is to enter an intersection until it is safe to do so"
(No matter if they have a green light or not)
Vehicle code 101.
Based on the video, Ms Williams is in the clear.

[elleng]

4. Thanks. My sense was that she was in the right.

It's awful that she's as traumatized as she is.

[JI7]

5. I felt so bad for her. She was hurt over the loss of life

She couldn't even defend herself from what was clearly not her fault.

[malaise]

10. Watching her cry at the press conference after her first Wimbledon match

told me all I needed to know. She was going at 5mph when her car was struck.

[rufus dog]

6. Strange - it appears she got hung out

Had she not yielded to the original car she would not have been at fault yet caused (actually not avoided) a accident?

After that point it appears she was in a no win situation.

[malaise]

12. She might have been hit by the other car had she not yielded

but it clearly wasn't her fault - give thanks for cameras because someone was planning to cash in big time.

[rufus dog]

21. Yup. I believe I understand the description

She yielded to an offending driver to avoid an accident. At that point she was stuck. She proceeded and the car that hit her didn't assess the situation. It appears her other option was to just sit there. Not a good option, she could cause an accident by doing that. Thus my comment that she was in a no win situation. The vast majority of drivers would have made the same decision as Venus.

I'm glad the video exists to show she was innocent.

[malaise]

22. You're right - a no win situation and then blamed for it

The driver who hit her was a senior citizen who may have panicked rather than assess the situation.

[rufus dog]

45. I truly don't get why they even have lights set up like this.

In newer areas (25+ years) of CA it is all green turn arrows with a delay then oncoming traffic gets a green. Seeing an accident on left hand turns is a rarity. I grew up in AZ with no arrows, couldn't drive across the city without seeing a left hand turn accident. In the FL case it sounds like they have arrows and also and immediate green for oncoming, so no time to clear the intersection.

I just don't get the time savings of seconds for the risk of major accidents.

[nolabear]

8. God, poor woman. We're lucky that doesn't happen more often.

She's going to pay for it forever. I hope they leave her alone.

[Lotusflower70]

20. Yeah right

Last edited Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:35 PM - Edit history (1)

They won't leave her alone. She is a successful black woman and has been the target of a lot of hate, just like her sister. I feel really bad for her because even though it wasn't her fault, a life was lost. Such a tragedy.

[malaise]

32. They smell

money

[nolabear]

33. Actually I meant we're lucky those wrecks don't happen more.

I don't doubt she is only one of many people unfairly harassed. I hate like hell that it's that way.

[NutmegYankee]

62. Honestly she isn't responsible for the life lost. I consider the man's death morally a suicide.

He'd be alive if he had used the the seat belt. This was a completely survivable accident, even with the wife's irresponsible decision to hit a car in the intersection that wasn't clear at a high rate of speed.

[LisaL]

67. WTF?

I haven't seen anything suggesting the man wasn't wearing his seat belt.

[NutmegYankee]

69. Multiple articles.

Use Google.

[LisaL]

85. What articles? Everybody had a seat belt on, according to the police report.

"The Barsons and Williams were all wearing seat belts at the time of the crash, according to the police report."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/local/venus-williams-crash-what-caused-other-traffic-intersection/FX5rL4yNnUNubYuptU3X4M/

[malaise]

73. No seat belt - ah well

I don't drive though our gate without my seat belt

[LisaL]

86. False.

[malaise]

25. Hope she and her sister install

dash cameras.

[amuse bouche]

53. I've been thinking of getting one. There are so many insane drivers in Floriduh

[cannabis_flower]

72. I need to get one also..

A few days ago I had a driver who was honking at me because I didn't turn fast enough for him. So he sped past me, swooped in front of me, slammed on the brakes and stopped. If I had rear ended him, it would be presumed to be my fault - unless I had a dash cam that showed that the other driver had deliberately caused the accident.

[spanone]

9. it was tough watching her in the press conference the other day.......

K&R....

[malaise]

13. Very tough

[Rollo]

14. I thought there was something fishy about all this...

And it wouldn't be the first time that a traffic collision police report came to exactly the opposite conclusion from the truth.

I know from personal (and painful) experience.

In Russia, just about everyone has a dash cam in their car. Might be a good idea here, too.

[malaise]

16. That's a good idea

Sorry about your experience

[heather blossom]

15. Hoping for a quick buck

Here's my opinion for what it is worth, Family's lawyer was hoping to cash in fast because he thought Venus would want to avoid litigation and bad publicity.
My question- was the deceased wearing his seat? He sustained head injuries, air bag should prevent that.
The plaintiff driver had the last clear chance to avoid the accident in my opinion.
Very very sad situation. My sympathy goes out to the family and to Venus.

[malaise]

18. Same here re the sympathy

until they allowed the lawyer to try and seize her car. Thankfully the court stopped that.

[erpowers]

17. Always Thought She Was in the Right

The way I heard the story I thought on its face the other person was wrong. First, I always thought if you hit someone from the rear or from the side you were automatically wrong in that if you had been paying attention and keeping a safe distance you would not have ended up in the accident. Second, Venus Williams entered the intersection on a green light, but was not able to proceed across until the light had already turned red. Even though the light had turned red I thought Williams was still in the right in that she was already in the intersection and the other car could have and should have stopped.

[malaise]

19. I would have stopped

Some intersections have clear rules about being at fault if caught in them so I'm not sure about that part.
I just couldn't figure out how she ended up being wrong when the light was clearly green when she entered.

I hope both sisters install dashboard cameras.

[LisaL]

27. It was green when she entered but turned red while she was still in the intersection.

[malaise]

30. Because she stopped to let in the car that created the mess n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

23. I was hoping a video would show that Ms. Williams wasn't at fault

I don't understand why the lady was driving fast while the other cars to the left of her had barely taken off. Still sad that the man died of his injuries. Sorry for their loss.

[malaise]

24. I wondered about that too

Her light could not have been green for that long. How was he injured so badly?

[LisaL]

26. I presume the lady was moving and continued to move since the light turned green,

while other cars stopped at the light.

[malaise]

28. That is a possibility n/t

[amuse bouche]

50. They showed the video on our local news. The lady wasn't just moving. She was flying

[LiberalFighter]

97. Yes! At least one car stopped while the crash car sped through.

[tblue37]

34. The Barson's car was traveling too fast for the circumstances. VW entered on green, then

she did what one SHOULD do, which is go slowly enough to recognize and adjust for the possibility of another car's crossing in front of her before proceeding to complete her turn.

Barson raced through the green light that had just turned from red and was moving too fast to take the situation into consideration and adjust for the fact that VW had gotten stuck in the intersection because another car had cut her off as she was completing her maneuver.

The damage to VW's car is evidence of being hit at some speed.

Obviously Barson timed her approach to the light just so, in order to not have to slow down or stop. (When there is no traffic, I sometimes do that, too.) She was concentrating on doing that, not on whether another car might be stuck in the intersection when the light turned just because someone else had blocked the other driver from clearing the intersection right away.

Mrs. Barson is the person mainly responsible for the accident and thus for her husband's death, but she can't bear to believe that, so she needs to believe that it is all VW's fault and that, as Barson says, VW should "be held responsible."

And I am sure the fact that VW has deep pockets enters into Barson's lawyer's consideration and advice, too, even if Barson's own motivation is more about her need to hold someone else responsible for causing her husband's death.

[LisaL]

44. Way to go speculating with no basis for doing so.

Couldn't it be that Barson was just driving, the light turned green and Barson proceeded as one would when the light is green?
Nobody has said that Barson was at fault since she did have the right of way at the time of the collision.

[tblue37]

54. Did you watch the video of the accident? The sequence of events

is pretty clear.

[Princess Turandot]

35. AP has the video in their article. Scroll down a few paragraphs to see it...

The video appears to be from a private security camera located at a guardhouse of some kind just south of the intersection.

The events take place at the top of the image, but after the original video plays, at about 48 seconds in, they zoom in to show the area around the intersection.

VW was driving north and was already in the intersection when a dark colored car on the other side of the intersection (in the southbound lane of the road that she was on) made a left turn in front of her. She waits to let it go through, and a few seconds later, begins moving north again, and is hit by the Barson's car driving west through the intersection.

The dark car making the turn passes in front of the Barsons' car, which begins to move almost immediately after it passes. Perhaps the turning car distracted Barson, who failed to note that a car was already in the intersection, and collides with it. If it's anyone's fault, it seems like it's hers.


https://apnews.com/c8b783603fc6490cbf24b7f1c07557cf/Police:-Williams-legally-entered-intersection-before-crash?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APSouthRegion

[LisaL]

38. I don't see where the other car passes right in front of Barson's car.

[tblue37]

55. No, it passes in front of VW's car, preventing her from

proceeding and completing her maneuver before the light turns read, so that she is stuck in the intersection when the light changes.

[malaise]

40. Watched it thanks

Sad all around

[AngryAmish]

42. My 2 cents (which everyone is dying to know)

Dark car that took the left hand turn in front of her is mostly 90% at fault. She was put in a really shitty position being stuck in the intersection.

The only way to hang this on her is if it was a divided highway and she could have stopped in between. Also, the yellow seems rather short. Finally, what was the speed limit?

[LisaL]

43. Does seem like not much time to clear that intersection.

[bhikkhu]

89. In our town we had a few lights like that

they'd run through the yellow to red much faster than one would expect. Driving the same roads most of the time I knew what to expect, but it wasn't unusual to see people caught out. The worst was just a few blocks from my house, where a two-lane secondary road crossed a four-lane main road. The light for the secondary only went green when a car was waiting at the intersection, but then would almost immediately cycle back to red; if you weren't right at the intersection you weren't going to make.

They did some reprogramming a couple years ago in response to complaints (or accidents, I'm not sure), and now the timing is normal.

[BeyondGeography]

101. +100

Ridiculous with a 50 mph speed limit on that road that they don't allow more time. Here's a group that recommends 5.5 seconds of yellow light time for that level of speed:

http://www.shortyellowlights.com/standards/

[malaise]

57. What's the speed limit is a really good question

Your two cents was useful

[csziggy]

82. Looking at Google Street View the speed limit is 50 mph

The location is Steeplechase Drive and Northlake Blvd., Palm Beach Gardens. Williams was driving north on Steeplechase, trying to go straight across Northlak to go to Ballenisles Drive.

There is not much of a median so Williams could not have stayed in the intersection without blocking traffic from one way or an other. Her only choice once she had been cut off was to try to clear the way.

[Thinkingabout]

36. I realize they have information now she was not at fault but I doubt if this will leave her mind

now and in the future to know someone died in an accident she was involved. She has always been a good person but it has to hurt.

[malaise]

41. And that's the truth

I cried with her the other morning at the press conference

[Susan Calvin]

37. I'm happy to hear this.

I hope it eases her mind.

[All-In]

46. Why I have a car dvr

I record all dumbasses. Bicyclists with death wishes too.

[nikibatts]

47. Lordy, I am glad there were videos.

[spooky3]

48. The original story did not make sense. Now, Venus, keep winning

At Wimbledon!

[malaise]

76. My wish

as well

[Catmusicfan]

51. So then she isn't responsible right?

[malaise]

58. Correct

[Alea]

74. She still not completely blameless

Even entering the intersection while the light was green, once delayed by the turning car, she still had as much obligation to check right and left before proceeding as the other driver had approaching the intersection and avoid the collision. They both had an obligation to see each other and avoid the crash. Williams may be found blameless in the eyes of the law but she should have checked left and right before moving on. I certainly would have, and have been in this situation. Once you stop in an intersection, for any reason, you better look both way before getting going again. Other car should have noticed her and slowed down or stopped too.

[pnwmom]

75. She was already in the intersection when the other driver entered and hit her.

She's not at fault.

[Alea]

79. I understand that, saw the video.

But it doesn't mean once you stopped in the intersection you put blinders on and proceed without looking.

[pnwmom]

80. You have no evidence that she didn't look. I was looking once when another driver

hit me -- and knowing that she was going to hit me didn't give me any better options. I was still boxed in.

[Alea]

81. Video shows her stop, then move forward into the path of the other vehicle.

If she looked before proceeding, saw the car coming, why did she go? In that situation I would have rechecked left and right and if I saw a car coming I would not have driven into the path. It was a bad situation. I'm not blaming her for the accident, but she's not 100 percent blameless either.

[TexasBushwhacker]

84. Um, they hit HER

She entered the intersection legally, therefore she continues to have the right of way until she clears the intersection.

BTW, the man who died was 78. His wife, the driver who hit Ms Williams, was 68. Age may have been a factor.

[Alea]

87. Yep, I have access to the same info and video as you.

I'm not talking about illegal/legal, or who is primarily at fault. I'm also not trying to be argumentative. Just driving to survive. The video clearly shows her stopping because a car cut her off. When she stopped her rear wheels had just cleared the gutter, so she was in the far right east bound lane. When she started again she crossed 2 more east bound lanes, then a median and turn lane area, then in to the west bound lanes where she was hit. All I'm saying is she had as much obligation to pay attention as the people that hit her.

In the same situation, I would have looked very carefully before I went across those west bound lanes. Just as this accident shows, people get stuck in intersections all the time. When it happens they should proceed with extreme caution.

[kwassa]

93. The video does not show what you say it does.

Williams is eventually in the path of many vehicles. If she was in the intersection before the light turned red, she has the right of way. Green is not a mandate to go. The fault is not hers.

I am a former insurance adjuster, by the way.

[malaise]

102. And she was in the intersection before the light turned red

That simple

[malaise]

100. Huh?

[malaise]

78. Huh?n/t

[onecent]

91. I'm glad someone had that picture......

[nini]

92. Funny every other car around her managed to see her and let the intersection clear out

People get caught in no man's land all the time in intersections like that which is why you pay attention to the actions of the cars around you too.

[treestar]

99. They barreled through without looking

because the light is green does not mean you get to just barrel through without looking right in front of you to see a car stuck there.

[nini]

90. That light couldn't have been green for long for that car - a split second or so

that car was going to way too fast if it was red as they were approaching the intersection. Holy crap.

[RhodeIslandOne]

94. It appears to me the man's wife was screened by the same driver who prevented Venus from entering...

...in a timely fashion. And possibly another passing vehicle. I don't believe either of the actual people involved are at fault.