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Teamster Jeff

(1,598 posts)
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 08:38 PM Jul 2012

As Evidence Mounts, DC Insiders Worry About Holder's Inaction On Wall Street Crime

More and more Washington insiders are asking a question that was considered off-limits in the nation's capital just a few months ago: Who, exactly, is Attorney General Eric Holder representing? As scandal after scandal erupts on Wall Street, involving everything from global lending manipulation to cocaine and prostitution, more and more people are worrying about Holder's seeming inaction - or worse - in the face of mounting evidence.

<snip>

The problem isn't a shortage of scandalous stories. We've seen a lot of those. What we haven't seen, at least here in the United States, is a single indictment of a senior Wall Street banker from the United States Department of Justice. And that's what has these political insiders concerned.

<snip>

Insiders say that its inaction is putting Barack Obama's re-election at risk, too, along with that of other Democrats. If the fate of the world doesn't spur the Administration and its Justice Department into action, perhaps the fate of its President will.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/richard-eskow/44224/as-evidence-mounts-dc-insiders-worry-about-holders-inaction-on-wall-street-crime

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As Evidence Mounts, DC Insiders Worry About Holder's Inaction On Wall Street Crime (Original Post) Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 OP
it's not crime if the amount is over $1 million lol. steal twinkies on the other hand...nt msongs Jul 2012 #1
Many a truth said in jest. closeupready Jul 2012 #50
Du rec. Nt xchrom Jul 2012 #2
Its one of two things. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #3
I'll go with #2. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #44
I haz an unsupported suspicion. moondust Jul 2012 #4
Maybe we need a new requirement for running for any Federal Office 99th_Monkey Jul 2012 #17
Ha. moondust Jul 2012 #18
I am convinced that every Democrat elected to the Presidency hifiguy Jul 2012 #33
Then he's compromised Le Taz Hot Jul 2012 #58
Holder is auditioning for his next corporate job with the super-rich. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #5
How could he find the time, with all the MMJ dispensaries to shut down? Vincardog Jul 2012 #41
What do they have against state-approved MMJ dispensaries? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #42
They deprive the FOR PROFIT Prison industry its fodder Vincardog Jul 2012 #43
I think that you're right. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #45
And the medical industry. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #46
Swiss Bank Wegelin Indicted on U.S. Tax Charges Kolesar Jul 2012 #6
On the other hand.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #7
Shit, even Bush did more. RagAss Jul 2012 #8
+1. nt riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #11
+2 AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #47
Did this ever occur to us? meow2u3 Jul 2012 #9
clearly those resorces were set aside to deal with the medical marijuana scourge frylock Jul 2012 #20
I hope he's focused on the possibly illegal Republican effort to disenfranchise voters across the Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #10
I see blurbs buried in the papers all the time about Solomon Jul 2012 #12
Big-time banksters are being prosecuted? And being prosecuted all the time? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #14
I'm sorry, but no Administration w/ Summers & Geithner IN it 99th_Monkey Jul 2012 #13
which is EXACTLY why they are there Skittles Jul 2012 #16
+1 -nt CrispyQ Jul 2012 #27
recent PBS special said that Summers wanted to go after at least one magical thyme Jul 2012 #35
'followed by Obama backing down' -He is a dive taker. Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author AynRandCollectedSS Jul 2012 #15
Anybody on this thread who thinks ANYTHING is being done truth2power Jul 2012 #19
What is going is is that the class war is over and we lost. wilsonbooks Jul 2012 #21
George Carlin was 100% correct. -eom Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #39
Issue Challenge To American Regulators Over LIBOR Scandal Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #22
too bad not one soul would speak 'on the record' spanone Jul 2012 #23
The British are getting tough? Oilwellian Jul 2012 #24
Not even, apparently. No, they RULE and give orders here. -eom Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #38
Rate Scandal Stirs Scramble for Damages Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #25
Right throw Obama and Democrats out because we know Romney's Bandit Jul 2012 #26
I understand your frustration, Bandit. Of course, no one on DU believes that Romney truth2power Jul 2012 #37
"I constantly have to self-censor what I write here". Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #53
I've always said F&F was the wrong reason to hold Holder in contempt tularetom Jul 2012 #28
You're right on all points except one. He and his boss may be out of their jobs in November, AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #49
infographic- Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #29
Huey,this is an excellent graphic. Do you know of any way to print it? I've tried several different truth2power Jul 2012 #40
And as per usual... 99Forever Jul 2012 #30
Might be the worst AG ever Doctor_J Jul 2012 #31
Complicity. Intentional. -eom Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #32
He is bought and paid for. hifiguy Jul 2012 #34
Am I on DU??? I keep getting so confused lately.. n/t progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #48
What, we're not supposed to discuss it? Quantess Jul 2012 #51
The call of the authoritarian. Go team, YAY! n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #52
What does that even mean? Quantess Jul 2012 #54
That we are innundated with fools who view this as nothing but a spectator sport. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #56
Thanks for the clarification. I agree. Quantess Jul 2012 #60
Perfect example, thanks. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #61
Kick! senseandsensibility Jul 2012 #55
latest- Huey P. Long Jul 2012 #57
Headline in your second link: "US Banks Sweat LIBOR Scandal Spanking". That's what it'll amount to.. truth2power Jul 2012 #59
 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
3. Its one of two things.
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 09:12 PM
Jul 2012

1) Fraud, conspiracy, and racketeering are no longer criminal offenses, or
2) The administration is protecting Wall Street criminals.

moondust

(19,991 posts)
4. I haz an unsupported suspicion.
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 09:31 PM
Jul 2012

A few years ago somebody, and maybe their family, was very discreetly threatened. For more info see JFK, MLK, RFK.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
17. Maybe we need a new requirement for running for any Federal Office
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:05 PM
Jul 2012

that they have NO LIVING FAMILY LEFT, and/or no "significant
other" that could be used to intimidate the office-holder.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
33. I am convinced that every Democrat elected to the Presidency
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:45 AM
Jul 2012

since the JFK assassination has been taken aside and given some "good advice" by TPTB. Even LBJ, who has been quoted as saying "Alright, now you can have your goddamn war" to the Pentagon/Intelligence brass only weeks after Kennedy was killed. I have little doubt that Johnson was only allowed to proceed with the Great Society programs in return for giving the MIC its war in Vietnam.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
5. Holder is auditioning for his next corporate job with the super-rich.
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 09:39 PM
Jul 2012

It is only when a sufficient number of the super-rich want him to go after the banksters, he will do so. Until then, he's not going to go after any of them.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
46. And the medical industry.
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 04:46 PM
Jul 2012

And they are absolutely terrified of one of pot's most consistent effects, that when one is high one's perspective shifts and many people start asking why. "Why am I spending my entire life doing something I hate for people that I would rather not associate with for just enough to make doing it all again tomorrow possible?"

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
6. Swiss Bank Wegelin Indicted on U.S. Tax Charges
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 09:52 PM
Jul 2012
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203889904577199483877439236.html

By CHAD BRAY And LAURA SAUNDERS

U.S. prosecutors filed criminal charges against Switzerland's oldest bank, alleging it helped wealthy Americans hide more than $1.2 billion in secret accounts abroad, the latest move in an ongoing crackdown on overseas tax evasion.

The indictment of Swiss private bank Wegelin & Co., founded in 1741, marks the first time U.S. authorities have charged a bank rather than individuals with helping Americans evade taxes.
...
"Wegelin Bank aided and abetted U.S. taxpayers who were in flagrant violation of the tax code," said Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney in Manhattan. "And they were undeterred by the crystal-clear warning they got when they learned that UBS was under investigation for the identical practices."
...
Wegelin had about $25 billion in assets under management as of December 2010. The bank has been under pressure since U.S. authorities brought criminal charges Jan. 3 against three Wegelin bankers for allegedly helping U.S. taxpayers hide Swiss bank accounts from U.S. tax authorities between 2002 and 2011. Wegelin also allegedly tried to capture business lost by UBS and another Swiss bank after those banks came under U.S. investigation in 2008 and in 2009, prosecutors said.

meow2u3

(24,764 posts)
9. Did this ever occur to us?
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:27 PM
Jul 2012

The rethug Congress defunded the white collar crime division of the Justice Dept. It may well be that Holder's hands are tied because he doesn't have the money to go after the banksters.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
10. I hope he's focused on the possibly illegal Republican effort to disenfranchise voters across the
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:29 PM
Jul 2012

country.

Solomon

(12,310 posts)
12. I see blurbs buried in the papers all the time about
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:32 PM
Jul 2012

financial people being prosecuted but nobody ever says anything. It's a myth that they aren't doing anything.

Lots of unfair cheapshots being swung at Holder. It's a damn shame.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
14. Big-time banksters are being prosecuted? And being prosecuted all the time?
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:36 PM
Jul 2012

Any links to all these blugs that you see published in the papers "all the time"?

You couldn't be thinking of small-timers who tried to rip off the banksters, could you? That's something that they don't tolerate.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
13. I'm sorry, but no Administration w/ Summers & Geithner IN it
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:32 PM
Jul 2012

is going to even think about opening the Wall St. can of vipers,
and expose them as who and what they really are .... world
class thieves, con artists and criminals deserving long prison
sentences..

I pity anyone who's holding their breath for Holder & the SEC
to actually DO their jobs to clean up Wall St.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
35. recent PBS special said that Summers wanted to go after at least one
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:58 AM
Jul 2012

as an example to the others, and completely re-do our financial system. Biggest potential return but biggest downside risk.

Geithner wanted to protect them all and tinker with the financial system. Geithner promised best return with least downside risk.

It was Summers versus Geithner. Obama went with Geithner, for least downside risk.

Furthermore, Obama's famous line, "I'm the only one standing between you and the pitchforks" was immediately followed by Obama backing down. The banksters were prepared for cramdown back then, and were enormously relieved when Obama chose to give them more rope.]

Hopefully they'll start hanging some sooner rather than later. I can understand the choice of least downside risk, to protect potential 2nd term and also protect the US from unmitigated disaster that would make Iraq war look like pick up sticks.

But he's got to start hanging them, and sooner rather than later. This term, not hoping for another shot at it. That's why they're all in for Rmoney. They know they dissed Obama and they know that he won't give them a second chance.

Response to Teamster Jeff (Original post)

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
19. Anybody on this thread who thinks ANYTHING is being done
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:18 PM
Jul 2012

should read 'Predator Nation' by Charles Ferguson. page after page after page of RICO offenses, fraud, etc. and nothing is done. Not by AG Holder. Not by Obama.

Ferguson even mentions LIBOR, and this book was published long before the most recent LIBOR scandal.

I don't know how it's possible to give Obama a pass on this. What is going on?

 

Huey P. Long

(1,932 posts)
22. Issue Challenge To American Regulators Over LIBOR Scandal
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:44 PM
Jul 2012

New York Times, Gretchen Morgenson Applaud British, Issue Challenge To American Regulators Over LIBOR Scandal
July 9, 11:17 AM ET
By
Matt Taibbi


Morgenson's piece from Saturday, "The British, at Least, Are Getting Tough," wonders aloud why American regulators – Ben Bernanke, cough, cough – don't take a similarly stern approach with our own corrupt bank officials. First, she summarizes what seems to be the mindset of American officials:

"Dirty clean" versus "clean clean" pretty much sums up Wall Street’s view of cheating. If everybody does it, nobody should be held accountable if caught. Alas, many United States regulators and prosecutors seem to have bought into this argument.

This viewpoint has been particularly in evidence since 2008. Time and again, American regulators have appeared to be paralyzed by corruption in cases when most or all of the banks have been caught raiding the same cookie jar. From fraudulent sales of mortgage-backed securities, to Enronesque accounting, to Jefferson-County-style predatory swap deals, to municipal bond bid-rigging, the strategy of American regulators has been to accept "Well, everybody was doing it" as a mitigating factor when negotiating settlements, where that should have made them want to crack the whip even harder.

Why? Because "everybody is doing it" corruption is way more dangerous than corruption involving one or two rogue firms going off-reservation. Regulators who spot that kind of industry-wide problem, to say nothing of cartel-style anticompetitive corruption, should be in a panic: They should always impose serious, across-the-board punishments, and it goes without saying that senior executives responsible have to be removed.

This is exactly what has begun to happen in England, now that the British have gotten wind of this LIBOR scandal, which involves the worst and most serious form of corruption – huge companies acting in concert to fix prices/rates. As the Times explains:


-
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/new-york-times-gretchen-morgenson-applaud-british-issue-challenge-to-american-regulators-20120709

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
24. The British are getting tough?
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:57 PM
Jul 2012

LOL...there were resignations and stiff fines, but haven't heard of any prosecutions. And that's what will go down here as well.

 

Huey P. Long

(1,932 posts)
25. Rate Scandal Stirs Scramble for Damages
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 08:53 AM
Jul 2012


JULY 10, 2012, 9:28 PM
Rate Scandal Stirs Scramble for Damages
BY NATHANIEL POPPER

-
Baltimore has been leading a battle in Manhattan federal court against the banks that determine the interest rate, the London interbank offered rate, or Libor, which serves as a benchmark for global borrowing and stands at the center of the latest banking scandal. Now cities, states and municipal agencies nationwide, including Massachusetts, Nassau County on Long Island, and California’s public pension system, are looking at whether they suffered similar losses and are weighing legal action.

Dozens of lawsuits filed by municipalities, pension funds and hedge funds have been consolidated into a few related cases against more than a dozen banks that are involved in setting Libor each day, including Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Deutsche Bank and Barclays. Last month, Barclays admitted to regulators that it tried to manipulate Libor before and during the financial crisis in 2008, and paid $450 million to settle the charges. It said other banks were doing the same, but none of them have been accused of wrongdoing.

Libor, a measure of how much banks must pay to borrow money from one another in the short term, is set through a daily poll of the banks. The rate influences what consumers, businesses and investors pay on a wide range of financial contracts, as varied as mortgages and interest rate swaps. Barclays has said it and other banks understated the rate during the financial crisis to make themselves look healthier to the public, rather than to make more money from clients.

As regulators and lawmakers in Washington and Europe assess the depth of the Libor abuse and the failure to address it, economists and analysts are already predicting it could be one of the most expensive scandals to hit Wall Street since the financial crisis.

=
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/libor-rate-rigging-scandal-sets-off-legal-fights-for-restitution/?smid=tw-share

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
26. Right throw Obama and Democrats out because we know Romney's
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:09 AM
Jul 2012

Administration will go to town cleaning house on all those rich banking thieves...It is almost to the point though of not caring any more..It would seem Democrats are as deeply ingrained in the corruption as Republicans and that is saying a lot...

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
37. I understand your frustration, Bandit. Of course, no one on DU believes that Romney
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 12:28 PM
Jul 2012

would clean house or do anything to prosecute the Wall Street criminals if he were elected. And it's not as if anyone who criticizes Obama wants to vote for Romney. That's too simple by far.

To your statement that Democrats seem as deeply ingrained in the corruption as Republicans, I would offer what Chris Hedges has repeatedly said - that ALL the levers of power have been corrupted. Thus, DU has put itself between a rock and a hard place.

I constantly have to self-censor what I write here, because of the "rock and a hard place" concept, if that makes any sense.

My training is in clinical social work, and I'm independently licensed in my state. My professional opinion is that there's a kind of codependent relationship between some DUers and President Obama, i.e., where, in the interest of stability in a family (and DU is a type of family) one member is protected from the consequences of his/her actions by others who take responsibility, make explanations and smooth out embarrassing situations. This is dysfunctional and tends to make for a lot of cognitive dissonance.

On the other hand, since this board is known as Democratic Underground, well ......, rock, etcetera.







tularetom

(23,664 posts)
28. I've always said F&F was the wrong reason to hold Holder in contempt
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:47 AM
Jul 2012

But there is a shitload of good reasons to do it.

Like the failure to aggressively go after the Wall Street crime family.

Or the failure to prosecute the war criminals from the previous administration.

Or the failure to recognize and act to stop the ongoing election theft in republican governed states.

Or the failure to act to correct the injustice done to Don Seigelman.

Or the obsession with medical marijuana users and distributers.

Hell, I've held him in contempt for a couple of years now. I've always maintained he is the worst appointment Obama has made.

And if he doesn't put an end to the widespread efforts to disenfranchise potential Democratic voters he might just be responsible for putting himself and his boss out of a job in November.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
49. You're right on all points except one. He and his boss may be out of their jobs in November,
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 05:03 PM
Jul 2012

but Holder and others may be auditioning for jobs with the super-rich.

Compare, for example, Truman's lack of wealth economic prospects when he left the White House (and who drove himself and his wife home to Missouri in their Buick) with the Clinton's wealth and economic prospects after he left the White House. Which example should Holder follow?

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
40. Huey,this is an excellent graphic. Do you know of any way to print it? I've tried several different
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 03:59 PM
Jul 2012

strategies but nothing works. I went to your link: accountingdegree.net but can't find it there.

From your post only page 1 will print out. Tried copy/paste etc. Nothing works.

The reason I'd like a hard copy of this is that I started a thread in the economics forum a couple weeks ago asking for help understanding municipal bonds. I think I frustrated myself and others who tried (kindly) to explain it because I couldn't explain where I was getting hung-up.

Eventually I had an Aha! moment. The key is that these banks aren't literally taking money out of your pocket (well, in a sense they are, but stay with me here) but they're depriving you and your municipality of revenue/funds that you would otherwise be entitled to if you were operating on a level playing field.

I hope I have that right. It's a distinction without a difference, perhaps.

Anyway, visuals really work for me. Thanks.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
30. And as per usual...
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:03 AM
Jul 2012

... we'll hear nothing about this from those that COULD do the right thing if they weren't owned by these CRIMINAL thugs in fancy suits. Can't bite the hand that bribes you.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
31. Might be the worst AG ever
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:28 AM
Jul 2012

I don't know if his complete limpness is due to his own incompetence or at the president's direction, but he has been a complete failure during a time of rampant high crimes and theft. Really a disappointment

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
34. He is bought and paid for.
Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:49 AM
Jul 2012

That is the only conceivable explanation. He is the worst AG appointed by a Democrat since A. Mitchell Palmer, of the Palmer Raids fame, who was Wilson's AG.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
56. That we are innundated with fools who view this as nothing but a spectator sport.
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 07:35 PM
Jul 2012

That there is an encouraged view that we must rally around and defend even the most heinous scumbag POS as long they wear the blue jersey.

Principles don't matter, corruption doesn't matter, even murder doesn't matter, as long as it's one of "our guys" doing it, it's all good. The authoritarian mind wants nothing more than to be told what to do by a perceived authority.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
60. Thanks for the clarification. I agree.
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 07:07 AM
Jul 2012

Otherwise, there is the danger of becoming like Penn State, in the way that people protected Jerry Sandusky in the name of loyalty to the university football team.

senseandsensibility

(17,060 posts)
55. Kick!
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 05:29 PM
Jul 2012

Seeming inaction? It's definitely inaction. The motive is the only thing in question, but I don't care about the motive for the inaction. The result is the same. Holder is more than disappointing.

 

Huey P. Long

(1,932 posts)
57. latest-
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 07:41 PM
Jul 2012

Libor Lawsuits Are Piling Up And Could Cost Billions, Banks Brace For Another Big Legal Battle
Advisor Network |7/12/2012 @ 1:25PM

The Libor rate scandal could make banks’ mortgage and foreclosure troubles look like child’s play and that doesn’t bode well for an industry still in recovery mode. The best case scenario is that banks were just lying about their own Libor rates independently which is what Barclays says it was doing when it paid up $450 million to settle charges last week. But there have been whispers by some (and apparently some evidence that has yet to surface) that say banks actually colluded to fix the daily interest rate. If proven true, it will mean major trouble for banks and the criminal aspect of the case gets even stronger.

How? The Libor rate affects about $800 trillion dollars of contracts and all sorts if financial instruments globally, according to experts. Investors of all sizes use the rate as a basis for a variety of financial products; homeowners mortgages, consumers’ credit cards and even city governments use derivatives contracts tied to Libor when issuing some bonds.

Some investors, specifically those who were receiving some form of payment from banks based on the Libor rate, allege that banks including Barclays, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and others have been manipulating Libor basing payments on false rates.

Who has a claim? “Anyone with a floating rate. The suits are building with some class actions forming already,” says bank analyst Glenn Schorr of Nomura. Earlier this year three plaintiff groups including Charles Schwab and the City of Baltimore filed suits against the 16 banks that submit Libor rates accusing them of collusion, or price fixing, under the Sherman Antitrust Act. It’s a damning allegation that has the potential to cost banks hundreds of billions of dollars.

-
http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2012/07/12/libor-lawsuits-are-piling-up-and-could-cost-billions-banks-brace-for-another-big-legal-battle/

==================

US Banks Sweat Libor Scandal Spanking
By Dan Freed 07/12/12 - 03:05 PM EDT

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- The Libor-fixing scandal has yet to significantly impact shares of Bank of America(BAC_), JPMorgan Chase(JPM_)or Citigroup(C_), though the threat is likely to hang over the companies for several months at the very least.

"We're not sure this potentially large problem is 'fully priced in' just because it's received a bunch of press so far," wrote analysts at Nomura in a 21-page research report published Thursday, which attempts to assess the potential impact of the scandal.
-
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11615215/1/us-banks-sweat-libor-scandal-spanking.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN

=================

Assessing Libor's impact
State, prosecutors to examine if agencies lostmoney over ratemanipulation scandal
By Steven Syre
Globe Staff / July 12, 2012

Massachusetts prosecutors will meet with state finance officials next week to examine whether public agencies lost money when a key interest rate used to price loans and credit around the world was manipulated by bankers several years ago.
-
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2012/07/12/mass_attorney_general_treasury_officials_examine_state_impact_of_libor_scandal/

=================

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
59. Headline in your second link: "US Banks Sweat LIBOR Scandal Spanking". That's what it'll amount to..
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 09:56 PM
Jul 2012

a spanking. Big deal!

Move along.

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