Yahoo article: Many Wall Street executives say wrongdoing is necessary: survey

[HughBeaumont]

Well, this explains the completely and painfully obvious, doesn't it?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/many-wall-st-execs-says-050334637.html

(Reuters) - If the ancient Greek philosopher Diogenes were to go out with his lantern in search of an honest man today, a survey of Wall Street executives on workplace conduct suggests he might have to look elsewhere.

A quarter of Wall Street executives see wrongdoing as a key to success, according to a survey by whistleblower law firm Labaton Sucharow released on Tuesday.

In a survey of 500 senior executives in the United States and the UK, 26 percent of respondents said they had observed or had firsthand knowledge of wrongdoing in the workplace, while 24 percent said they believed financial services professionals may need to engage in unethical or illegal conduct to be successful.

[drm604]

1. Do they teach ethics in business schools?

Serious question.

[GeorgeGist]

4. They did 40 years ago.

But even then it was something of an oxymoron.

I suspect Congress would score worse.

[TrollBuster9090]

19. Everybody hates lawyers, but the fact is that they have a code of ethics, and can lose their license

to practice law if an 'Ethics Committee' finds them guilty of violating legal ethics. Yes, they'll use lots of legal tricks to try and give their clients an advantage, but that's actually their job. They're not allowed to CHEAT to give their clients an advantage.

Maybe it's time to bring in corporate executive ethics laws, and licensing? This is obviously not going to happen on it's own.

[Dawson Leery]

44. True.

"Big Business" is allowed to do whatever they want.

[JDPriestly]

46. Thank you. Actually, lawyers don't get by with criminal behavior.

Contrary to popular belief. Dishonest lawyers get caught sooner or later.

Check on this.

http://www.aclu-sc.org/12796/#more-12796

[Ikonoklast]

5. HAHAHAHahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!

...(gasp)...

HHAHHHHahaahhahahahaaaaa!!!!!


STOP IT!! You're killing me!!!

[HughBeaumont]

28. They TEACH ethics . . . whether people FOLLOW the ethics they're taught . . . .

Well, just look at who gets all the money and HOW they get it.

[Ikonoklast]

41. Those classes must be taught by Professor Edward Teach.

"Arr, me hearties, never leave one shilling laying on the planks or one witness alive!"

[HughBeaumont]

42. "If'n I didn't shewt one of ye now n then, ye'd forget who I was!"

[JHB]

11. In the "it's that thing over there" sense.

Actually, I think they do, but the Wall Street and corporate high-flyer types think it's for suckers.

[valerief]

16. ETHICS anagrammed is CHIETS. It's the new spelling. nt

[davidpdx]

25. Yes they do

I'm a doctoral student and it was the first class in my sequence I had to take.

Some people just choose to be unethical to step on people (I'm thinking of the name of someone with a hair piece).

[HughBeaumont]

27. They teach it in banks after business school.

Most banks have internal training courses on GBL (snicker), fraud, ethics, code of conduct, etc, every year. Kind of a CYA thing, but it's to assure the employees are on the level and good business practices are assured.

[Huey P. Long]

33. Mainstream Economist: We Might Need to Hang Some Bankers to Stop Criminal Looting

Mainstream Economist: We Might Need to Hang Some Bankers to Stop Criminal Looting

Even Nouriel Roubini Says We Need to Jail or Hang Some Bankers
Nobel prize winning economist Joe Stiglitz – and many other experts – have said nothing will change unless dishonest bankers are jailed.

Former trader Max Keiser has been calling for years for crooked bankers to be hanged, to send a message that crime won’t be tolerated.

But Nouriel Roubini is a lot more mainstream than Keiser – or even Stiglitz – being very close to Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. See this and this.

Roubini told Bloomberg that nothing has changed since the start of the financial crisis, and we might need to throw bankers in jail – or hang them in the streets – before they’ll change:

-
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/07/mainstream-economist-we-might-need-to-hang-some-bankers-to-stop-illegal-behavior.html

[drm604]

2. This is why examples have to be made.

There need to be criminal prosecutions or, at the very least, firings. When this kind of behavior is tolerated, honest people can't compete and lose their jobs, leaving only people who are willing to compromise their ethics (it they had any to begin with).

[Scuba]

3. +1,000

[drm604]

7. If there are no likely consequences, it becomes a race to the bottom.

There have to be risks (i.e. criminal prosecution) to this kind of behavior; and the likelihood of getting caught and the severity of the punishments have to be high enough that the rewards aren't worth the risks.

[chervilant]

17. From "The Righteous Mind" by Haidt:

Phil Tetlock, a leading researcher in the study of accountability, defines accountability as the "explicit expectation that one will be called upon to justify one's beliefs, feelings, or actions to others," coupled with an expectation that people will reward or punish us based on how well we justify ourselves. When nobody is answerable to anybody, when slackers and cheaters go unpunished, everything falls apart.

[TrollBuster9090]

20. True, but the fact is that business leaders are only answerable to their shareholders, and their

shareholders' only concern is that they MAKE MONEY. Frankly, they don't give a damn how they DO it. So, if you go by WHO business leaders are answerable to, Tetlock's condition is met. They're DOING their jobs.

However, that could potentially be turned against them if the government actually grows some teeth and FINES these companies. Fines that are significant enough to hurt the profit margin, meaning it no longer makes economic sense to STEAL. We're beyond the point of caring whether things make MORAL sense. 30 years post Reagan, and nothing in American society can be justified anymore in any terms except MONEY. Don't forget...we actually have conservatives wandering around today saying "screw Civil Rights laws banning discrimination. THE MARKET would have eliminated slavery AND eliminated racial discrimination. There was no need for a law banning slavery OR racial discrimination."

[chervilant]

43. Other consequences, too,

would be nice. Jail time, public humiliation...

I have all sorts of suggestions. ( )

[JDPriestly]

47. We don't "fine" people who cheat for little money on welfare.

We put them in jail.

Why should bankers and businessmen who cheat for the big money just get fined? No. The crime is worse. The amount of money stolen is greater. The punishment should be worse, not just a fine.

Sorry. I am normally very compassionate and forgiving, but when the rich cheat the poor??? No. This does not work for me.

The businessmen and bankers just pay the fines out of the shareholders' and customers' money. That is no punishment at all.

[uponit7771]

38. +1

[liberal N proud]

6. Well, yeah, they all get a bonus for doing the wrong thing

And another bonus if they get fired for it.

[HughBeaumont]

29. Just look at the example they follow:

CEOs who get lottery exit packages no matter if they do a good or bad job . . . or, in some cases, work one DAY.

This is the precedent set, and it's sad that we put up with it.

[on point]

8. There need to be serious jail times (15+yrs) & penalties that leave them only w/ basic SSI to retire

The costs need to be heavy. Wrong doing must be expensive and life destroying to be a deterrent. Now it is a slap on the wrist, part of the myth of 'failure' and 'start-over'.

Boards of directors must be personally, criminally liable if their companies cut corners. Only then will they exercise vigilant over sight that insists on doing things right. The incentives to wealth are all on the cheating side, with no consequence for wrong doing.

When the saying went from 'It not whether you win or loose, it how you play the game' to

'Its not how you play the game, its whether you win or loose'

that is when the criminal predators took over. The only way to get rid of them is put them down via strong regulations to protect society (which is why as a class they hate regulation fences), and serious consequences when they transgress.

[Zalatix]

9. The difference between a sociopath and a successful Capitalist

is the sociopath is the one who gets caught.

[xchrom]

10. Du rec. Nt

[barbtries]

12. apparently

that's just fine with them. ethics? morals? pshah

[raccoon]

13. If China took over the US, I wonder if these crooks would face the possibility of

capital punishment. Seems like one of the suits over in China did...

[handmade34]

14. and the other

3/4 aren't telling the truth

[valerief]

15. Ah, yes, the diamond (no longer golden) rule: Cheat or be cheated. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. Some would say that here. nt

[ProfessionalLeftist]

21. Just goes to show how many psychopaths there are on Wall St. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. ...and 74% are pathological liars. K&R n/t

[Arkana]

23. Sure wish I could use that excuse where I work.

"Yes, sir, I DID give away company-internal mailings to competitors, but it was necessary in order for me to succeed!"

[Javaman]

24. This confirms to me is that 26% of workers on wall street are sociopaths. nt

[davidpdx]

26. I'm shocked Yahoo actually reported this

They seemed to have gone right wing lately (or at least like to repeat right-wing talking points).

[tk2kewl]

30. ...and the other 74% are lying thus proving the point.

[hifiguy]

31. Lawyers get disbarred for violating ethics rules.

It happens regularly.

"Business" people get bonuses and golden parachutes for activities that would land lawyers in jail.

[steve2470]

32. k&r nt

[socialist_n_TN]

34. AAAH! I love the smell of capitalism in the morning..........

And as I've said before, jail ain't enough. Expropriating their WEALTH is what's really needed. Whether by fines or revolution, I don't care, but that's the only thing that will work.

[HughBeaumont]

35. It's how Michael Milken emerged from prison wealthier than he was when he went in.

Think about this: how does a guy who was

* indicted on 98 counts of securities fraud and racketeering,

* eventually convicted of 6 counts of fraudulent securities reporting (felonies, last I checked),

* sentenced to 10 years in prison (of which he served less than 2 years),

* forced to pay $200 million in fines, $400 million in restitution (he paid $1.1 billion for all
lawsuits related to his actions while working as a junk bond trader at Drexel)

. . . come out of prison even richer than he was before???

He has a net worth of 2 billion dollars.

If any of US stole even $500, we'd never work again and die in squalor.

It's because he was allowed to keep some of his wealth despite being convicted of securities-related felonies.

[socialist_n_TN]

36. Prime example of what I mean Hugh...........

Thanks.

[Trillo]

37. Sounds like we should all be taught in techniques of dishonesty, beginning first in grade school.

That whole BS about being honest and discouraging others from being dishonest and such is perhaps just a method to create prey ripe for hunting.

[Huey P. Long]

39. The courts have recently ruled its okay for a politician to lie. A few years ago, for 'News' to lie.

The only ones not lying or told its not okay to lie and cheat are the sucker people. Corporations and those who speak for them are now green lighted to lie their ass off.
The whole thing is one big con, meanwhile only the citzen/slave will be called to task.

[Igel]

40. There's a lot of that.

"Do what you need to to reach your goals."

Especially if it's urgent. If there's some need, someplace, somewhere, needing scratched and you're the man to help it. Money shortfall, help your employer, help your friends.

And it's really okay if your friends, colleagues, and supporters say it's not only good for you, but good for others.

Morality is flexible. The law isn't. When it suits you, you cite the law to hem in others; but then you turn around and appeal to morality because it gives you the leeway to do what you wanted to do straight along.

Far too common a practice.

[moondust]

45. Capitalism: Preferred Choice of Crooks Everywhere!

Cast those bothersome morals aside! Leave those outdated ethics behind! Get out there and screw somebody!!! Big time!!!!

[HooptieWagon]

48. If 26% think wrong-doing is necessary...

then my guess is 25% arr doing it. If one in 4 Wall Streeters is committing financial crimes, we might need to clear out a whole prison to put them in.