"The prejudice against government seems to have become ... unattached to any actual experience"

[phantom power]

Art Laffer (why is he, of all people, on my TV?) asks what it will be like when the government runs Medicare and Medicaid.

But I’d raise a further question: he warns that when the government takes over these, um, government programs, they’ll be like the Post Office and the DMV. Why, exactly, are these public functions unquestioned bywords for “something bad”?

Maybe I’m living a sheltered life here in central New Jersey, but I don’t find the Post Office a terrible experience — no worse than Fedex or UPS. (Full disclosure: I worked as a temp mailman when in college.) And nobody likes going to the DMV, but the one on Rt. 1 I go to always seems fairly well managed.

And in general: is dealing with these government agencies any worse than, say, dealing with the cable company?

The prejudice against government seems to have become free-floating, unattached to any actual experience.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/hey-mister-postman/

[hifiguy]

1. The fruit of Raygun's ignorant, poisonous tree

has been stuffed down people's throats for thirty years. Repeat the Big Lie often enough and it drowns out even what people see directly in front of them.

[denverbill]

2. Art Laffer doesn't even know Medicare and Medicaid are government run?

Why would anyone take that simpleton seriously?

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. 'Thinks Social Security is some kinda government program' gwbu$h and the famous lockbox from Gore.

I remember the look on Gore's face when gwbu$h made that ignorant remark.

It was priceless.

[FarCenter]

3. Paying taxes and traffic stops are people's most frequent experience of government

[bhikkhu]

12. Driving on public roads, drinking water, eating food, flushing the toilet...

all are direct government services or less directly produced and packaged under an assortment of regulations, with generally very positive effects.

[FarCenter]

16. Roads yes, but the others are often private

The water company, the grocery store, and the septic system.

[PETRUS]

20. You are onto something...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-01/middle-class-welfare-state-invisible-by-design-commentary-by-ezra-klein.html

Middle-Class Welfare State Is Invisible by Design

What is a government program? And are you on one right now? Those are the questions Cornell University political scientist Suzanne Mettler has been posing.

For her book “The Submerged State,” she asked a scientifically selected sample of 1,400 Americans whether they had ever used a government social program. Only 43 percent copped to having done so. Then she read off 21 social programs, such as Medicare (FFSOMED) and the home-mortgage interest deduction, and asked the same question again: Have you ever used a government social program? This time, 96 percent said yes, in fact, they had.

<snip>

There is also a pattern to these programs: The more a government social program benefits wealthier Americans, the less obtrusive it is. We design policies for the poor in ways that make it hard to escape the knowledge that the government is providing help. But richer Americans rely on programs that are “submerged.” The Tax Policy Center estimates that eliminating all individual-income tax expenditures would raise levies on the bottom 20 percent by $931. For the top 1 percent, the tax increase would be almost $280,000. (Notably, both President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have talked about cutting back on tax expenditures for the wealthy, but neither has provided details.) Even so, many middle class and wealthy beneficiaries have no idea that they’re receiving any government assistance at all.

[FarCenter]

22. Govt is designed to be unobtrusive; imagine having to pay income tax, SS, and Medicare each Quarter

If the bulk of the population had to file a 1040ES and make a quarterly estimated payment of these three taxes there would be hell to pay. Half the population would resist, and the other half would have already spent the money and not be able to pay.

Hence all these are withheld from employees paychecks and remitted to the IRS by the employer, who is assumed to be a law abiding, responsible citizen and tax collector.

And that way the average Joe is spared the pain of digging the sums out of his own pocket.

[bhikkhu]

23. I don't know the percentages...

but every city I have lived in (and there have been a few on both coasts) has run both the freshwater supplies and the wastewater treatment itself - so all of my drinking water has been "government water", and every time I flush the toilet the government takes care of that too.

As a matter of public health and overall longevity, its been one of the biggest things to come along over the past century that we take for granted. The rural electrification projects were another, and libraries another, though the list could easily go on and on. Its worth bringing up just because all the "I hate the government" types and the "government does nothing good" types need to be reminded.

[kentuck]

4. sort of like all taxes are bad....

and if you can hide your money in foreign accounts and get away with it, that is perfectly alright.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

6. Yeah

but that's called "sticking it to the man". Tax evasion may be illegal but most people think that the government is just going to waste the money on a bunch of losers, druggies, and welfare queens, so, hey, what's the big deal?

[kentuck]

9. I actually had that conversation with a right-winger on the Fourth...

and he said, "What's wrong with that!?" End of conversation.

[veganlush]

5. this my biggest pet peeve

Everybody parrots this shit about government being so evil. it needs to be countered powerfully and frequently but I fear that won't happen enough. I am always pointing this out to people.when they're putting down government, they're putting down we the people, no ifs ands or buts.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. +1

I don't know how or why people think that corporations are somehow *superior* to government either when, most of the time, we get shafted more often (and worse) by them.

[phantom power]

8. Also, it's as Krugman says: "compared to what?"

The cable company? Your health insurance company (if you're lucky enough to have one)? Do we want bureaucracies accountable to nothing except profit motive, or do we want bureaucracies based on some accountability to voters/citizens?

[bighughdiehl]

10. Let's not forget....

another thing the repukes gloss over and the "liberal" media lets them get away with:
Their prejudice against government is actually very selective.
Somehow, wars all over the place, rendition, gitmo, warrantless wiretaps,
busting down doors over a single joint, and other circumventions of decency,
common sense and due process do no constitute "big government"
in their deranged little minds.

[Scootaloo]

11. And the left is just as guilty as the right on this

After all, they share the same origins; the 1960's. Whether the distrust of government comes from seeing the government as a deliverer of forced bussing and taxes, or as a military and anti-drug organization doesn't matter. Rangy old hippies and privileged scions alike both look at the same period and draw the same conclusions; "GOVERNMENT IS BAD, MAN!"

[ThoughtCriminal]

14. They had a different kind of bad experience

Something a little nastier than a rude DMV employee

[Scootaloo]

17. What? Looks like an average day for the Portland Police Department

Said it once, and I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying it; Kent state wasn't shit. Not at the time, and certainly not now. The ONLY REASON it stands out is that, ohmigod, the victims were privileged white kids, and not poor brown ones. That's what makes it memorable, that's what makes it the Hippy Holocaust; holy shit, they shot four white kids.

[Odin2005]

15. Look at the anti-Fed BS.

That shit started among the Libertarians, bur seems to have infected our side following 9/11.

[Odin2005]

13. Wow, Laffer is even stupider than I thought.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. People in a complex modern society will be governed

Do they prefer being governed by a private bureaucracy answerable to its shareholders and board or to an entity answerable to and elected by the people?

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Absolutely meaningless. Who CARES how a person feels about government.

It's not like I should be genuflecting every time the word is spoken. Are you people serious in saying it burns you that someone might not love the government?

Pay your taxes on time. Do your best to be a good citizen. Other than that? Government can kiss my ass until I need it to do for me what it's supposed to do for me according to the Constitution, state, and local laws. I would add that being a "good citizen" doesn't require one to speak only good about government and lying ass politicians. The government ain't my Mama, and it ain't my Pops. I owe it nothing.

Maybe the fact that all politicians are lying asses influences how people "feel" about government in general.

Maybe those who have such reverence for government can tell me how they feel about their government dropping hellfire missiles on the heads of other countries' citizens without FIRST proving beyond a shadow of a doubt it's warranted? Or how they feel about their government killing a 16 year old who was born on this very soil and thus was an American Citizen, using just that method? I fucking hate those two things to my core. Do they shape how I feel about government? You tell me.

The First Amendment was written with criticism of government in mind. Criticism of the government is ALWAYS protected speech. When I say whatever I want about the government I do so without fear of repercussion. That's the whole point. Reading this thread, it seems like some do not agree with that protection.

I wore its military uniform, and now I owe the government nothing but my taxes. I pay them duly, while at the same time taking every legal tax break available to me as I'm sure plenty of DUers do. When the time comes, I will avail myself of any and every government benefit I am duly entitled to and I shall do so without any guilt whatsoever.

Prejudice against the government... gee I hope I don't hurt its feelings.